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Author Topic: Why are so many people Anti-Bitcoin?  (Read 4206 times)
Tuxavant
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November 02, 2011, 03:55:44 PM
 #81

1)  Bitcoin eh?  Scary.  Yeah that is the coming of the Apocolypse.  The book of revelation says we are going to have one world currency as the hosrsemen bring down the heavens.

Wow, that's awesome... Denying Bitcoin is like denying God's will.

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November 15, 2011, 04:42:06 PM
 #82

I was really flabbergasted when i noticed the biggest part (like... ehh 99%? xD) was totally not interested in bitcoin and a lot of them were also actually anti-bitcoin. (with ofcourse all the arguments mentioned above)
I had hoped occupy would spread the word about bitcoin but no, on the contrary. Sad

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November 15, 2011, 04:52:49 PM
 #83

Digital wallets - consumers hate them.

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November 15, 2011, 04:57:09 PM
 #84

Digital wallets - consumers hate them.

I don't think they hate them.

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November 15, 2011, 05:01:21 PM
 #85

Digital wallets - consumers hate them.

I don't think they hate them.

I think it's a combination of "Why you tryin to scam me?" and "Oh NOss! Computer has viruses to steal mah money!" and "WTF is a digital currency?"

Some is just ignorance, some are valid concerns. Persistence and education are the keys to success!

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November 15, 2011, 05:13:10 PM
 #86

Digital wallets - consumers hate them.

If that's true, then Google has just made a MASSIVE business blunder.

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November 15, 2011, 05:59:43 PM
 #87

Windows 7 runs on Linux backend.

LOLZ.

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November 15, 2011, 06:48:39 PM
 #88

Digital wallets - consumers hate them.

Normal money is all digital now, but ironically USD is more virtual than Bitcoin, because it can be created at whim.

An online Bank of America checking account is little different than an online MtGox account, accept that the former will give you a debit card and a credit card.  How long do you think it'll be before Gox is offering the same?

Almost all critcisms of Bitcoin boil down to condemnations of current inconvenience. Anti-Bitcoin people see the inconveniences and condemn the system to failure. Pro-Bitcoin people see the inconveniences and build systems to solve them.

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November 15, 2011, 07:19:19 PM
 #89

Tout homme qui dirige, qui fait quelque chose, a contre lui ceux qui voudraient faire la même chose, ceux qui font précisément le contraire, et surtout la grande armée des gens d'autant plus sévères qu'ils ne font rien du tout.
-Jules Clarétie


If I translate that quote, it would be something like:

Every man who lead, who do something, has against him: everybody who wants to do the same thing, everybody who is doing the exact opposite, and, the harshest of them, the great army of people who do nothing at all.

The Bitcoin community is currently leading a big project. That's why you have a lot of people against it. Criticism is the proof that you're doing something.
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November 15, 2011, 07:47:53 PM
 #90

Bitcoin is Linux to VISA's Windows.

Isn't the Android system a version of linux?

Basically, bitcoin will go mainstream when it is hidden under layers of fluff so average people do not have to know anything about it, it will just be running in the background supporting the rest of the monetary system.

I found the original analogy apt, and your potential misunderstanding about what Linux is may have important implications for the future of bitcoin.

Linux is not an Operating system, it is a kernel (can be lossely defined as a hardware abstraction layer). When people refer to "Linux", they are often referring to a GNU/Linux distribution bundled with things like the X11 Window system; often with the KDE or GNOME desktop environments (I prefer simpler Window managers myself).

Android uses the Linux kernel, but not the GNU user-land. Some distributions such as Debian allow you to replace the kernel with FreeBSD or Hurd.

The point here is that many users don't understand/know about the reason the GNU system was developed. While describing an OS as GNU+Linux may be annoying at times, it hints niether part is complete without the other. With Bitcoin the danger (that some people have voiced on the forums) is that bitcoin will become the new "gold standard": with the average person using electronic wallets backed by bitcoin, but not using bitcoin directly. Over time, some e-wallet providers may be temped to do fractional reserve lending, making history repeat itselft.

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November 15, 2011, 09:14:48 PM
 #91

Bitcoin is Linux to VISA's Windows.

Isn't the Android system a version of linux?

Basically, bitcoin will go mainstream when it is hidden under layers of fluff so average people do not have to know anything about it, it will just be running in the background supporting the rest of the monetary system.

I found the original analogy apt, and your potential misunderstanding about what Linux is may have important implications for the future of bitcoin.

Linux is not an Operating system, it is a kernel (can be lossely defined as a hardware abstraction layer). When people refer to "Linux", they are often referring to a GNU/Linux distribution bundled with things like the X11 Window system; often with the KDE or GNOME desktop environments (I prefer simpler Window managers myself).

Android uses the Linux kernel, but not the GNU user-land. Some distributions such as Debian allow you to replace the kernel with FreeBSD or Hurd.

The point here is that many users don't understand/know about the reason the GNU system was developed. While describing an OS as GNU+Linux may be annoying at times, it hints niether part is complete without the other. With Bitcoin the danger (that some people have voiced on the forums) is that bitcoin will become the new "gold standard": with the average person using electronic wallets backed by bitcoin, but not using bitcoin directly. Over time, some e-wallet providers may be temped to do fractional reserve lending, making history repeat itselft.



even if bitcoin becomes large and fractional reserve banking based on it comes into existence, it will still solve the more important issue of the control of the supply and the central banking debt and interest
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November 15, 2011, 09:52:32 PM
 #92

Digital wallets - consumers hate them.

Normal money is all digital now, but ironically USD is more virtual than Bitcoin, because it can be created at whim.

An online Bank of America checking account is little different than an online MtGox account, accept that the former will give you a debit card and a credit card.  How long do you think it'll be before Gox is offering the same?


The difference being if I lose my password to my BoA account I do not lose all of my money. I lose my BoA issues debit card I do not lose all of my money.

I delete my Bitcoin wallet file I lose all of my money. There is no recourse.

It would take Gox millions to become certified to become PCI compliant and handle PII data.

Just read this article on Dwolla for mor einfo: http://www.businessinsider.com/this-28-year-old-is-making-sure-credit-cards-wont-exist-in-the-next-few-years-2011-11

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November 15, 2011, 10:02:05 PM
 #93

The difference being if I lose my password to my BoA account I do not lose all of my money. I lose my BoA issues debit card I do not lose all of my money.
I delete my Bitcoin wallet file I lose all of my money. There is no recourse.

Backup your wallets. Problem solved.

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November 15, 2011, 10:06:12 PM
 #94


I delete my Bitcoin wallet file I lose all of my money. There is no recourse.


Yes and if you delete your important work documents you lose them also.

Average people will not keep bitcoins on their computer, anyway. They'll use ewallets and online banks, just like they do now with dollars. And again, you're pointing to a lack of current convenience which is quite easy for a moderately talented entrepreneur to solve.

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November 15, 2011, 11:39:00 PM
 #95

Why are so many people Anti-Bitcoin? Because people have hard time coming up with a reason embrace bitcoin unless they have a clear understanding of it's inferior counterpart -fiat currencies.

Right now turning people pro-bitcoin is a two step process.

1. Knowing why fiat currency is failing our economy.
2. Why bitcoin is better.

The problem is that many people think they know how money works, but don't. It's also tough trying to explain bitcoin when central banks and authorities have obfuscated how fiat works for decades while antagonizing any opposition. Ever notice how new credit cards aren't gold or platinum anymore? There is probably a good reason why they've stopped using them to promote elite credit status for example. People are thinking "Why reinvent the wheel?" while comparing bitcoin to failures of the past like flooz. People must understand why we need to embrace p2p decentralized cryptocurrency like bitcoin first otherwise they simply won't care to dig any deeper. They are fine with taking what the mass media gives them at face value.

The truth is that until people start to see why we need an alternative solution to cash and fiat currencies, adoption rate for bitcoin isn't going to skyrocket. The good news is that protests like #ows is slowly helping people realize the root of our economic problems - inflationary fiat currencies under monopoly of central banking system world wide.
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November 16, 2011, 01:56:41 PM
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The good news is that protests like #ows is slowly helping people realize the root of our economic problems - inflationary fiat currencies under monopoly of central banking system world wide.


I haven't seen or met anyone who thinks OWS is about the currency itself.  It's about greed, high unemployment, corporate influence, manipulation, lobbying, lots of things, but not the currency itself.   

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November 16, 2011, 02:25:11 PM
 #97

The good news is that protests like #ows is slowly helping people realize the root of our economic problems - inflationary fiat currencies under monopoly of central banking system world wide.


I haven't seen or met anyone who thinks OWS is about the currency itself.  It's about greed, high unemployment, corporate influence, manipulation, lobbying, lots of things, but not the currency itself.   

Most of the things I hear is about banks (from both ows and tea party), and Bitcoin can definitely be about that. Though I still believe Bitcoin's biggest need is in third world and developing nations with restrictive financial systems, where people with skill and intellect would be able to use it to source their skills to the rest of the world (such as a poor engineer in India or Russia being able to easily do work long distance online for someone in US or Europe)

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November 16, 2011, 02:26:04 PM
 #98

The good news is that protests like #ows is slowly helping people realize the root of our economic problems - inflationary fiat currencies under monopoly of central banking system world wide.


I haven't seen or met anyone who thinks OWS is about the currency itself.  It's about greed, high unemployment, corporate influence, manipulation, lobbying, lots of things, but not the currency itself.   

I've seen several "End the Fed" signs all over Occupy LA. Even had this huge mural depicting the Fed as an enormous tentacle monster.
http://imgur.com/LuaTW.jpg

Even the currency is weighted against the working man - inflation taxes are regressive, siphoning money from the poor to the rich. The Fed gives interest rates to banks that the rest of us would drool over... and that same money is then lent to us at a far higher rate. Oh THANK you kind sir, for graciously lending me money out of thin air, created at the expense of my own savings, for your own profit, which you still can't do right and demand a bailout.

They're robbing all of us every day we hold USD. Does Occupy have a unified solution? No. But they're not happy about a monetary system stacked against us.
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November 16, 2011, 02:56:31 PM
 #99

Bitcoin induces severe cognitive dissonance.

For example, this is what might be going on in the head of a typical left-liberal:


BELIEF 1

"Privacy is a human right"
"Spying on private data is wrong"

BELIEF 2

"Free speech is a human right"
"Censoring private data exchange is wrong"

BELIEF 3

"too much personal wealth is wrong"
"taxing wealth in order to achieve equality is right"

     THEREFORE  
  
     "spying on private wealth is right"  
     "censoring private wealth exchange is right"

NEW FACT

"wealth is just data"

THEREFORE

"Right is Wrong"



Bitcoin, by introducing a new observation, "wealth is just data", exposes to some people that some of their most strongly held convictions are contradictory.  

They were contradictory all along of course,  but their practical day-to-day experience hadn't yet provided them with sufficient observations for falsification.  


Cognitive dissonance takes hard work to resolve. Sometimes denial is easier.

Also, giving up those beliefs means a significant personal loss for some people because it results in exclusion from their social group.
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November 16, 2011, 03:44:34 PM
 #100

I think you are giving them WAAAAY to much credit. From my time spent as a personal financial advisor, and based on stats of how many people retire ok vs those who have to keep working till they die, I'm very convinced that vast majority of people just don't understand money or wealth, period.
So it's really closer to:

BELIEF 1

"Things should be fair"


BELIEF 2

"Some people have more than others, which is unfair"


BELIEF 3

"Someone should do something to make things more fair."


The question of why things are "unfair" or what can effectively be done about it never even enters peoples' minds.

As for why Bitcoin is hated? If I were to guess, it's a combination of the technology's grandiose claims and possibilities butting up against the group who uses "The Internet is serious business" sarcastically. They don't understand it, it's different, and it threatens to change what they are already used to, and it's also on the internet, and since "everyone knows you can't make money on the internet," they can only mock it and its supporters. This whole thing is almost exactly like what happened with SecondLife, where the technology promised to reinvent the web and expand how we do business (grandiose claims), but since it's on the internet, it can't be serious, so was mocked incessantly, even despite people earning hundreds of thousands on it from fairly successfull businesses (personally, I only earned hundreds of $10s). Once they get bored with mocking and hating, they will move on and eventually accept it.

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