PoW vs PoS- Proof-of-Stake Might be the Winner here (Save the Environment)

[Wind_FURY]

@WindFury,

Guy your ability to block out what is right in front of you is sickening.

PoS Holders can not dominate like a PoW Miners can, it is just not coded that way.

How many Nodes do you run?

It cost money to run Nodes, it is not free.  Plus those coins in the Nodes are not free,
You purchased them or you mined them with PoW, but you have to run a node to compete to make more,
and you have to sell some if you want to exchange it for other items.

You admit bitcoin miners currently have perpetual power over you and have had it for over 2 years with no quick end in site.

And you whine that PoS holders may possibility have that same power, when I have explained to you multiple times that they don't.

That's it? The cost to be the perpetual power on the network is to run a node, or nodes if they want to Sybil attack the network.

POW costs are very high. They are so high that it will force some "powers" in the network to fail. Watch Bitmain, its "monopoly" will not hold forever, not like the originators of a POS coin.

Just how big a moron are you?

Not as big of a moron as the person who believes Zeitcoin is the one true Bitcoin killer. Hahaha.

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[Wind_FURY]

Is this necessary? Won't this only add an unnecessary overhead in costs for staking in a POS system? I believe this will not only make the whales become the perpetual powers in the network, this will also absolutely centralize the validators in the system because the hardware development and creation are not the same as POW hardware's race for total efficiency.

https://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-foundation-filecoin-back-plan-to-make-proof-of-stake-hardware/

Announced Thursday at Devcon, the annual gathering of developers in Prague, Ethereum Foundation researcher Justin Drake unveiled preliminary designs for application-specific integrated circuits, or ASICs, that will support an upcoming ethereum technology called the "beacon chain."

In essence, the beacon chain is a random number generator, and it's expected to form part of the next major iteration of the ethereum network – ethereum 2.0 – under an alternative, proof-of-stake consensus protocol (compared to the proof-of-work approach utilized today).

[mikeywith]

I am not new in this forum , but still suffers to get merits. If you think i am capable enough , please tip me a merit. It will boost my speed.

No wonder you are not getting any sort of merits.  not only because you believe that POS is a winner, but due to the way you try to present your idea.

see I have never learned English writing in school , it's very rare to find english speakers where i live, I learned what i learned mostly online and from watching movies and shit like that ! . and one thing I have learned "For Free" is that whenever you try to compare something to something else ,you have to address both PROs and CONs of EACH. you can't say

CONs of pow are ********************************

so POS is a the winner ! . really?


now back to the topic, the way i see it, the best chance that any POS project has is being  Hybrid PoW+PoS , that might actually work. ! . aside from that POS alone is bullshit at its best.

and as for the environment Banks around the globe consume much more power than every ASIC/GPU/FPGA combined. and if you want to play that environment card, then there are many other more important issues you should try to solve before you talk about POW. start with Make-up  waste disposal    [/list]

[d5000]

Is this necessary? Won't this only add an unnecessary overhead in costs for staking in a POS system? I believe this will not only make the whales become the perpetual powers in the network, this will also absolutely centralize the validators in the system because the hardware development and creation are not the same as POW hardware's race for total efficiency.

https://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-foundation-filecoin-back-plan-to-make-proof-of-stake-hardware/

Interesting. Unfortunately, the article isn't very clear with respect to the reasons for the development, and why a specific hardware would be needed. It sounds a bit like "trusted hardware", but it seems to be something different.

Currently reading this article:
https://blog.trailofbits.com/2018/10/12/introduction-to-verifiable-delay-functions-vdfs/

However, there is also something that sounds positive:

Looking at the work ahead, Drake struck a positive tone – particularly the prospect of designing and implementing the plan in an open-source fashion

It seems to be an open hardware project, so a centralization caused by a single manufacturer seems not possible, and also the hardware should not be expensive, so there would not be much risk of "minting centralization".

Edit: I read the article now. It seems Ethereum wants to achieve a system where a dishonest majority (a "minter cartel") cannot game the random number generator. For me, it seems that this goal is difficult to achieve from the start, as even Bitcoin is attackable if the majority of the hashrate is dishonest. From my understanding the problem VDF wants to solve is similar to the "selfish mining" problem in Bitcoin. It may be simply "overcomplicating" things.

[Zin-Zang]

Is this necessary? Won't this only add an unnecessary overhead in costs for staking in a POS system? I believe this will not only make the whales become the perpetual powers in the network, this will also absolutely centralize the validators in the system because the hardware development and creation are not the same as POW hardware's race for total efficiency.

https://www.coindesk.com/ethereum-foundation-filecoin-back-plan-to-make-proof-of-stake-hardware/

Announced Thursday at Devcon, the annual gathering of developers in Prague, Ethereum Foundation researcher Justin Drake unveiled preliminary designs for application-specific integrated circuits, or ASICs, that will support an upcoming ethereum technology called the "beacon chain."

In essence, the beacon chain is a random number generator, and it's expected to form part of the next major iteration of the ethereum network – ethereum 2.0 – under an alternative, proof-of-stake consensus protocol (compared to the proof-of-work approach utilized today).

What are you complaining about , you want waste and inefficient design like bitcoin's proof of waste.
Eth founder is just doing his best to appease morons like you wind fury giving you what you want a crappy design with useless hardware to buy.

For the record ethereum so call PoS design is not PoS , it is some bastardization of Proof of Stake.
Eth PoS is not a true PoS implentations and only the unaware can't recognize that.

Technically we should call Eth PoS,  Eth's PoBS , as they are just ruining PoS to make it appeal to the PoW religious fanatics.

[bitmover]

For the record ethereum so call PoS design is not PoS , it is some bastardization of Proof of Stake.
Eth PoS is not a true PoS implentations and only the unaware can't recognize that.

Technically we should call Eth PoS,  Eth's PoBS , as they are just ruining PoS to make it appeal to the PoW religious fanatics.

What are you talking about?
Ethereum casper is a transition from PoW to PoS. Every 50 mined blocks, there will be one minted PoS block.

This is not a bastardization, but a transition, as no one has ever tried POS with a real and big project before. This is something totally new.

Ethereum serenity will be full PoS. https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Proof-of-Stake-FAQ

I believe you are just trolling around to make a +1 post for your chill coin...

[konfuzius5278]

I can only laugh at people that say we can mine Bitcoin with green POW.

They dont understand that the power can be used much better for other things.


Proof of Stake a security leck? These people should name ONE coin (not exchange) hit by an attack. I dont know one.

But I can name half a douzen relativly big coins attacked by an 51% hash attack.

And even Bitcoin attack is simple for a goverment. Or just for Bitmain. Think about they nearly control 51% of the pools. At the moment they dont do because it has no interest. But when BTC value is 50k $ then with a simple attack they can earn more money then they ever get with mining and seeling these "guess game" maschines.

[bitmover]

Proof of Stake a security leck? These people should name ONE coin (not exchange) hit by an attack. I dont know one.

There was never a coin with a large market capitalization using POS, that's why.

But I can name half a douzen relativly big coins attacked by an 51% hash attack.

And even Bitcoin attack is simple for a goverment. Or just for Bitmain. Think about they nearly control 51% of the pools. At the moment they dont do because it has no interest. But when BTC value is 50k $ then with a simple attack they can earn more money then they ever get with mining and seeling these "guess game" maschines.

Government cannot do a 51% attack on bitcoin, because it costs energy and hardware. It would cost a blackout.

Let's suppose u.s.a government woild like to a 51% on bitcoin. Just go to the nearest Walmart, buy 6 million s9, plug all of them on the same room and done right?

It needs a long time to buy hardware, put them in different locations...it's doable but much harder than a POS attack. Just buy some coins and boom.

[Zin-Zang]

For the record ethereum so call PoS design is not PoS , it is some bastardization of Proof of Stake.
Eth PoS is not a true PoS implentations and only the unaware can't recognize that.

Technically we should call Eth PoS,  Eth's PoBS , as they are just ruining PoS to make it appeal to the PoW religious fanatics.

What are you talking about?
Ethereum casper is a transition from PoW to PoS. Every 50 mined blocks, there will be one minted PoS block.
HYBRID GARBAGE
This is not a bastardization, but a transition, as no one has ever tried POS with a real and big project before. This is something totally new.
Blackcoin was as high as $72 million dollars at one time, it is a true PoS coin and it has survived all of the fairy-tale security attacks.

Ethereum serenity will be full PoS. https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Proof-of-Stake-FAQ
Don't believe all of the hype they feed you ,
it should say "Ethereum serenity will be Ethereum Special Customized Bastardization Version of PoS.

I believe you are just trolling around to make a +1 post for your chill coin...
And you be Wrong again!

I believe you been living in PoW land for too long,
Proof of Stake Coins such as Blackcoin , MintCoin , and several others all run a PoS only coins derived from the Peercoin original design.
Sunny King invented Proof of Stake,  trying to act like Eth is Proof of Stake is nonsense.

The casper protocol, the fact Eth devs actually pretend that N@S is a issue, when it is a fairly tale for the PoS illiterate to believe.
Now the Random hardware nonsense, Eth proof of stake will depend directly on their smart contract system ,
No Real Proof of Stake coins have the security risks that eth bastardization using smart contacts based PoS will have.

Eth is making a PoS Frankenstein creature that is not really proof of stake.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
Ethereum is not the True PoS coin you are looking for.
It is merely a hype driven over complicated smart contract hybrid and odds are when the security breaches to it happen.
Morons will all scream see PoS is unsafe, when the fact is PoS is Safe , but this bullshit Eth is doing is not.  


I been studying True PoS coins for years, and their are many to choose from, Ethereum is not now and won't be later a True PoS coin.

Proof of Stake a security leck? These people should name ONE coin (not exchange) hit by an attack. I dont know one.

There was never a coin with a large market capitalization using POS, that's why.

But I can name half a douzen relativly big coins attacked by an 51% hash attack.

And even Bitcoin attack is simple for a goverment. Or just for Bitmain. Think about they nearly control 51% of the pools. At the moment they dont do because it has no interest. But when BTC value is 50k $ then with a simple attack they can earn more money then they ever get with mining and seeling these "guess game" maschines.

Government cannot do a 51% attack on bitcoin, because it costs energy and hardware. It would cost a blackout.

Let's suppose u.s.a government woild like to a 51% on bitcoin. Just go to the nearest Walmart, buy 6 million s9, plug all of them on the same room and done right?

It needs a long time to buy hardware, put them in different locations...it's doable but much harder than a POS attack. Just buy some coins and boom.

Government won't buy hardware to pull off a 51% attack,
they will capture Wu Family and Coerce him into performing one just as any Major Power like US, China , Russia or Europe could do.
* How many of the new design Antminers do you thing Wu's Company has been running before they start selling to the public,
 they been out competing the other PoW miners that buy ASICS from them for months, and now they sell them to the public starting today,
and you really don't think they have been profiting off of them at least all summer.  
* Oh and for the posers that think Wu does not have 51% thru multiple sources, the government can always procure his and then shoot tomahawk missiles into the other warehouses making Wu 100% not just 51%, that is the danger when your operation requires so much energy you can't hide it. *
PoS can be run off a laptop in a coffee shop and moved daily to secure it from direct military attacks like what can easily destroy bitcoin.


You lugnuts , always claim it is so easy to buy some coins and boom, put your money where your mouth is.
Pick any and I mean any PoS coin with a marketcap over $1 million dollars and show us how you break it.
Because I call you out on that it is so easy line, so put up or shut up.  
Or did you just want to admit you're flaccid now.

Gmaxwell made up most of the PoS fairly tales, he is supposed to be well off financially ,
why don't you PoW lugnuts ask him to kill a PoS coin to prove he was not lying the entire time.
Disclaimer : Gmax is one of the mods in this very forum, I know you're one of the posers censoring my posts.
He could at least write a multi staking client to at least give his N@S Lie a smidgen of credibility.

[konfuzius5278]

Proof of Stake a security leck? These people should name ONE coin (not exchange) hit by an attack. I dont know one.

There was never a coin with a large market capitalization using POS, that's why.

But I can name half a douzen relativly big coins attacked by an 51% hash attack.

And even Bitcoin attack is simple for a goverment. Or just for Bitmain. Think about they nearly control 51% of the pools. At the moment they dont do because it has no interest. But when BTC value is 50k $ then with a simple attack they can earn more money then they ever get with mining and seeling these "guess game" maschines.

Government cannot do a 51% attack on bitcoin, because it costs energy and hardware. It would cost a blackout.

Let's suppose u.s.a government woild like to a 51% on bitcoin. Just go to the nearest Walmart, buy 6 million s9, plug all of them on the same room and done right?

It needs a long time to buy hardware, put them in different locations...it's doable but much harder than a POS attack. Just buy some coins and boom.

When its SOOO easy to do, hacker would do it just for fun.

And you did not answer the Bitmain 51% problem :-)