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November 20, 2018, 11:08:08 AM
Merited by cryptohunter (2)
 #1

Going through trust feedback on different members of the forum. I see some feedbacks (positive or negative) left on members without any reference.

I am of the opinion that if you are going to leave a trust feedback on an account you should also provide verifiable references to the reason for it, otherwise it just seems like pulling it out of thin air.
I understand that a trust rating might not be for one reason and could be abstract, at the discretion of the person leaving it. But if you are going to suggest that other forum members trust or cautiously deal with another, then maybe you need to state why.

My question is, Should users be allowed to leave trust feedback without any reference?

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November 20, 2018, 11:20:18 AM
Merited by The Pharmacist (1)
 #2

Theymos didn't mention such kinda rule that you have to put reference link for providing feedback. I don't think theymos will do it in future.
On feedback pages, you can leave trade feedback. There are no rules for this,
However, there are some guidelines but those are not specific rules.
Trust system is not moderated unless someone extremly abuses the system, therefore, anyone can leave a feedback. For example, I got a negative feedback from a stupid without a single reason.

By the way, I do strongly believe that there are a bunches of thread regarding this issue. You should check those before creating a new thread so that you could get the output without creating a thread.

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November 20, 2018, 11:25:43 AM
 #3

If you don't really understand how trust feedback are done

This just a basis trust feedback be it positive or negative is give by only a DT and not just by any user

And there are always a reason for it although not stated on the profile just like when ever you get banned the reasons are not stated till you appeal.

And DT are reputable members and are not bias in the dishing of trust feedback so you can count on them Even without leaving a reference so things are better concealed till when the matter arises to keep a healthy balance of the forum

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November 20, 2018, 11:41:56 AM
 #4

I’ve left a few people +ve trust without a reference. I don’t think it’s an issue, you can always change the feedback to neutral or negative if they do something untrustworthy.




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November 20, 2018, 11:42:46 AM
Merited by mprep (1)
 #5

I negotiated the purchase of a few Satoshi in my private chat room. The seller was a legendary here, but what reference could I have provided when I posted the trust comment.

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November 20, 2018, 11:47:20 AM
 #6

It depends,not always a reference is needed unless you are abusing the trust system,if a DT member do this there may be a reason or the the other person just leave it because it won't appear on the default trust.

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November 20, 2018, 12:00:45 PM
 #7

I negotiated the purchase of a few Satoshi in my private chat room. The seller was a legendary here, but what reference could I have provided when I posted the trust comment.

Nothing that wouldn't carry privacy implications.  Technically, you could link to the tx in a block explorer, but the seller might not appreciate you highlighting an address that belongs to them.  And you might not wish to reveal the address you're using.  So yes, there's not much else you could provide as a reference if either of you care about your privacy.

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November 20, 2018, 12:17:06 PM
 #8

My question is, Should users be allowed to leave trust feedback without any reference?

It's depend on situation. For example something I sold to you and you pay me first. Deal complete successfully and I am willing to leave you a positive feedback. So what reference you reffer  for it ? Ask yourself ! Thats the reason reference is optional. Most of negetive feedback left with reference link and should be especially for red tag. I can trust you any specific reason, so how I use reference for that ? But it's better to use if there is really have any reference.

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November 20, 2018, 12:28:44 PM
Merited by Foxpup (3)
 #9

The trust system is there as a guide and people can interpret feedback as they wish. If you see someone with an unsourced negative then you can choose to ignore or discredit it if you think it's invalid without one. I'm not sure making it a requirement would change much though. You could just put any random link there, and as others have said, sometimes they're not always needed. What if you just think a user has been a very active and helpful member of the community over the years? How can you provide a source for that without creating a thread listing all the ways you think they've been helpful. Sometimes you can get that all across just in what you write in the actual feedback and no source is necessary.


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November 20, 2018, 01:02:15 PM
 #10

I've made 3 transactions with the same member, and left feedback each time. I may do another one soon. These repeated trust entries seem to be a bit repetitive, and I wonder if it is worth batching them, or including a transaction count to make a cleaner listing.

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November 20, 2018, 03:01:22 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4)
 #11

The trust system is there as a guide and people can interpret feedback as they wish. If you see someone with an unsourced negative then you can choose to ignore or discredit it if you think it's invalid without one. I'm not sure making it a requirement would change much though. You could just put any random link there, and as others have said, sometimes they're not always needed. What if you just think a user has been a very active and helpful member of the community over the years? How can you provide a source for that without creating a thread listing all the ways you think they've been helpful. Sometimes you can get that all across just in what you write in the actual feedback and no source is necessary.
Indeed, it wouldn't make sense to add it as an explicit rule. However it should be a strong suggestion to add one whenever possible.
I tend to ignore feedback left by users who regularly don't include a reference even when it would be helpful.

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November 20, 2018, 03:16:27 PM
 #12

I’ve left a few people +ve trust without a reference. I don’t think it’s an issue, you can always change the feedback to neutral or negative if they do something untrustworthy.

This explains OP's question about leaving reference. Actually reference are useful. This will help user that you had giving positive or feedback to keep them motivated if is positive response and to avoid doing things if they commit mistakes. This is how I think admin has viewed about the trust rating. There is nothing wrong also LFC_Bitcoin stated that he leaves +ve trust without stating the reference. It is actually an option wether you like to write the reference or not.

Trust rating is working good so far however there could be some things that will needed to change in the near future.

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November 20, 2018, 03:44:33 PM
 #13

I for one definitely think that a reference for any trust issue,whether positive or negative deserves to be referenced,without a reference it's basically your word for it, as there happens to be no proof of illicit dealings,nor trustworthy dealings,whichever way you look at it..

Negative trusts,are invariably used to warn the community off a particular user,would you do that without quality proof/reason as to why we shouldn't...
While a positive trusts basically tells the community that such user can be trusted,how then can we trust such user,without a reference to any of his/her trustworthy dealings on-the forum/with other members on the forum..
I think OP made a whole lot of sense
By the way, I do strongly believe that there are a bunches of thread regarding this issue. You should check those before creating a new thread so that you could get the output without creating a thread.
I've been reading voraciously on the forum since coming on board,i haven't come across any topic such as this one..
Links please!!!!

 
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November 20, 2018, 03:47:22 PM
 #14

All arguments made seem to be valid to an extent.
Members should be encouraged to insert a reference when suggesting other members trust a certain user as this gives credence to the positive or negative feedback.

What if you just think a user has been a very active and helpful member of the community over the years? How can you provide a source for that without creating a thread listing all the ways you think they've been helpful.


You could highlight an instance where they were notably helpful as a reference. But this is a perculiar situation and a it is not really necessary.
But when it concerns a transaction and risked BTC then I believe it should be sourced for clarity.

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November 20, 2018, 04:39:30 PM
 #15

Since I am not DT, my trust ratings are more like a note to myself if I encounter that user again.
So these are purely private, and some of users who know me around here put me in their Trust List, simply trusting my judgment.

If I don't want to add a reference, or can't be bothered to make an archive of a post and the post gets deleted, it doesn't change the fact I should have the ability to do so.

Not seeing any good reason to enforce using reference for trust ratings.

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November 20, 2018, 05:18:52 PM
 #16

Ideally yes. How else can one reviewing it make up their mind on it.

I mean if you do not put the reason you can't be that confident others will find it as damning as you want a neg to be.

Usually you get to see that actually it is not even something that you should factor in to a possible financial transaction.

I have had negs for simply not fighting against a scam someone told me I should help them fight because I was busy fighting larger scams and the perp had vanished from the board so there was nothing you could really do

I had even been scammed by that same scammer who scammed the person giving me bad feedback and he was a legend member more senior than me. Pathetic excuse of a member he was.

Also how can you call for others to balance that neg if you can't fight the accusation with facts because there is no statement

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November 20, 2018, 07:18:04 PM
 #17

I’ve left a few people +ve trust without a reference.
I've done likewise, although if I'm leaving a negative for someone I usually feel the need to leave a reference link, or else it's kind of meaningless.  When I look at someone's trust page and see a bunch of negs without reference (especially if they're untrusted feedback), I tend to ignore them.  The reason for that is because there's so much retaliatory and malicious feedback being handed out that I wouldn't necessarily not do business with a member just because someone called them a scammer with no evidence to back it up.

As far as leaving positive feedback, I'm extremely conservative about doing so since I got added to DT, but I've given positive trust to members who I think are trustworthy even though I've never transacted with them and thus have no reference link to provide.  I don't think that's a problem, since if they turn out to be untrustworthy the feedback can always be removed.  That's basically what happened with aTriz, although I think in his case I'd left him positive trust for being an excellent campaign manager and did provide a reference.

I have had negs for simply not fighting against a scam someone told me I should help them fight because I was busy fighting larger scams and the perp had vanished from the board so there was nothing you could really do
I've been negged by turds for reasons even more trivial than that, and if you look at some of them they actually claimed I scammed them for X amount of bitcoin or tried to extort them or whatever.  Since they never provide references (and the fact that none of those things ever happened in the first place), there's no way for anyone to verify the negative trust. 

In any case, I think it's much more important that references be left when leaving negs than positives, but there can be and is abuse occurring when no reference link is provided.  I've seen alt accounts giving each other positive trust before, and that's just one example of what could happen.

Since I am not DT, my trust ratings are more like a note to myself if I encounter that user again.
I think that's completely fine.  I also think more people should create their own trust lists and not rely on the DT system.  I have a custom trust list and the default trust system isn't a part of it.

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November 20, 2018, 11:16:08 PM
 #18

I've made 3 transactions with the same member, and left feedback each time. I may do another one soon. These repeated trust entries seem to be a bit repetitive, and I wonder if it is worth batching them, or including a transaction count to make a cleaner listing.


You can do this, because calculation of trust score is based on distinct user not by distinct transaction.
But continuous feedback show other that seller/user is active trader throughout the time. You can give one feedback maintaining timestamps of previous timestamps and delete the older ones.

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