Posting in forums with moderators who give no smerit? Solutions?

[cryptohunter]

Today at 13:50:34: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: account blocked today over a year old and 1500+ posts
Today at 13:50:00: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: What's happening with Bitcoin losing more than 10 per cent of its value?
Today at 13:49:32: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: What is this forum for?
Today at 13:49:00: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: Trust abuse! Injustice! Fake trust by winter! Much butthurt I am!
Today at 13:48:33: 2 to The Pharmacist for Re: Is the new ERA of merit dying again?
Today at 13:47:59: 3 to The Pharmacist for Re: DT1 list alternation: add me on it
Today at 13:47:16: 3 to The Pharmacist for Re: I need merit badly

I am really surprised to see this. It just doesn't feel right.

I was actually surprised as well.  I'm not sure why he gave me that many merits for all those posts--I guess he just likes what I post, but you'd have to ask him for the reason.  I swear to Baphomet that I'm not an alt of Foxpup if that's the implication.  Perhaps he knows I'm looking for Newbie-to-Sr. Member accounts (and some Hero members, too) to give merits to, and he knows I'll distribute the sMerits I get.  Who knows?

You got me with that Rickroll.  I thought that shit went ghost in 2012 or so, and it's not something I'd love to have revived. (lol)

See what I mean the guy just can't stop himself.... he can't stay away from me.

Oh ffs, he's not stalking you.  You're going all over the place giving opinions that are very contrarian and playing devil's advocate in ban appeal threads.  He probably just disagrees with you about some things (and I can completely understand that) and wants to challenge you on what you're writing.  That's part of what a discussion forum is.

However, I will be happy to merit some neglected posters who are putting out fabulous posts and not getting the recognition that they deserve.

Same here.  I just found one post worthy of merit in an Economics thread buried in a shitpost sandwich, but looking for such things gets very tiring very quickly.

There is nothing really more to say about merit allocation. I think the evidence is there in this thread for people to understand that is it very subjective and circulated amongst the 0.13% on one sub board to a degree that distorts any real value in the scores.

Can you explain these contrarian views that I have been voicing? - this is different from the playing devils advocate in the ban appeals?

Tell me which parts of suchmoons failed rebuttals of my posts you can completely understand?  Please give a detailed and structured argument that I can consider and decide if the evidence/case provide requires me to reconsider. I am actually a very open minded person.

Are these contrarian views?...

Most pre merit legends are spammers

It is idiotic to assume some of the 99.87% of this board can make posts as good or better than some of the 0.13%.

Or are those views that you share with suchmoon too? Actually I would be interested to hear your views on precisely those two opinions.

I mean I was not really too bothered about continuing this thread as I feel there was enough material for people to review themselves and make up their own minds. However, since I keep seeing more people replying to me then I guess it could be rude to not respond and try to find out what exactly they mean.

@ marlboroza

I'm glad you don't think it looks right.

[suchmoon]

I was actually surprised as well.

Foxpup probably bookmarked your posts because you hit 50 in one month. Or time travel.

I think the evidence is there in this thread for people to understand that is it very subjective and circulated amongst the 0.13% on one sub board to a degree that distorts any real value in the scores.

Of the ~300k merits sent out so far ~12% have been sent between the top 200 merit receivers, which is what your 0.13% seems to be referring to - a fallacy in its own right because you haven't shown why 150k users are supposed to be "eligible". You could also argue that 17% of the 150k users are getting 100% of merits. Is that good or bad?

None of this is evidence of anything. You haven't even been able to provide examples to support your assertions, let alone coherently explain why that's wrong or how "not wrong" should look like.

[Foxpup]

Foxpup probably bookmarked your posts because you hit 50 in one month. Or time travel.

I prefer to think of it as sending messages to my future self. Future me is somewhat unreliable (he still hasn't done any of the chores I told him to do), but he does trust past me's judgement, and trust is important when dealing with one's past and future selves. Distrusting one's past or future self is a common source of frustration when time travelling.

[cryptohunter]

I was actually surprised as well.

Foxpup probably bookmarked your posts because you hit 50 in one month. Or time travel.

I think the evidence is there in this thread for people to understand that is it very subjective and circulated amongst the 0.13% on one sub board to a degree that distorts any real value in the scores.

Of the ~300k merits sent out so far ~12% have been sent between the top 200 merit receivers, which is what your 0.13% seems to be referring to - a fallacy in its own right because you haven't shown why 150k users are supposed to be "eligible". You could also argue that 17% of the 150k users are getting 100% of merits. Is that good or bad?

None of this is evidence of anything. You haven't even been able to provide examples to support your assertions, let alone coherently explain why that's wrong or how "not wrong" should look like.

Oh ... you're back. Or here anyway who knows with you and fox pup.

It has taken you like 2 days (in my time anyway) to dream up this response and once again ignore my previous questions. Try answering those first then we can discuss further else it just turns into a one sided debate with you not answering anything but just asking me more and more questions. I'm not asking for anything new I am asking for you to reaffirm your previous statements so I know if there is any chance of a sensible conversation. While you're about it show me the stats/evidence to back those up too since you love stats and have 20 other buddies who are stats experts it will be a trivial task.  Then you get to ask me things too.

[suchmoon]

Oh ... you're back. Or here anyway who knows with you and fox pup.

It has taken you like 2 days (in my time anyway) to dream up this response and once again ignore my previous questions. Try answering those first then we can discuss further else it just turns into a one sided debate with you not answering anything but just asking me more and more questions. I'm not asking for anything new I am asking for you to reaffirm your previous statements so I know if there is any chance of a sensible conversation. While you're about it show me the stats/evidence to back those up too since you love stats and have 20 other buddies who are stats experts it will be a trivial task.  Then you get to ask me things too.

I have responded to your questions, you just didn't like the answers. And I'm not really asking you anything new so if you don't feel like debating - don't. The question in my previous post was largely a rhetorical one. It's already been established with reasonable certainty that you can't or won't show us the unmerited good posts, which is the only thing that really matters to me in this whole discussion. I take the merit system seriously, you don't.

[marlboroza]

I am really surprised to see this. It just doesn't feel right.

I was actually surprised as well.  I'm not sure why he gave me that many merits for all those posts--I guess he just likes what I post, but you'd have to ask him for the reason.

I wasn't really surprised but I could ask him.

@Foxpup, why, oh why have you sent merit to good posts?

@ marlboroza

I'm glad you don't think it looks right.

You missed point  

I think the evidence is there in this thread for people to understand that is it very subjective and circulated amongst the 0.13% on one sub board to a degree that distorts any real value in the scores.

So where is evidence?

You can check my merit history and you will see something similar:


Less then minute.


11 seconds! To the same accounts! There is no possible way I could have read both threads in 11 seconds.


FFS 10 seconds! Again lowesmayfamilies


46 seconds

Abuse! Circle of merit jerks! Buddies!

I would really like to hear your opinion on this...evidence.

that is it very subjective and circulated amongst the 0.13% on one sub board to a degree that distorts any real value in the scores

If you often read for example meta logically you will more often merit posts posted in meta. If user is good poster, someone might check post history and find more interesting and good posts and merit them as well.
You can't really force anyone to read boards which they don't find interesting and to merit posts there. This is forum after all and it should be used as forum not some game where you need to jump somewhere to collect or send merits.

[LoyceV]

You can check my merit history and you will see something similar:


Less then minute.


11 seconds! To the same accounts! There is no possible way I could have read both threads in 11 seconds.


FFS 10 seconds! Again lowesmayfamilies

Those are rookie numbers Beat this:
November 17, 2018, 12:38:43 PM: 1 to DarkStar_ for Re: LoyceV's Legendary 10 Month 10 Person 10 Altcoin Investment Roller Coaster #2
November 17, 2018, 12:38:43 PM: 1 to HCP for Re: LoyceV's Legendary 10 Month 10 Person 10 Altcoin Investment Roller Coaster #2
November 17, 2018, 12:38:43 PM: 1 to KingZee for Re: LoyceV's Legendary 10 Month 10 Person 10 Altcoin Investment Roller Coaster #2
November 17, 2018, 12:38:43 PM: 1 to KingZee for Re: LoyceV's Legendary 10 Month 10 Person 10 Altcoin Investment Roller Coaster #2
(and no, those 2 to KingZee did not go to the same post)

And it wasn't my first time either:
October 13, 2018, 09:18:22 AM: 1 to Indamuck for Re: Universal Basic Income Is Silicon Valley’s Latest Scam
October 13, 2018, 09:18:22 AM: 1 to audaciousbeing for Re: Universal Basic Income Is Silicon Valley’s Latest Scam
October 13, 2018, 09:18:22 AM: 1 to figmentofmyass for Re: Universal Basic Income Is Silicon Valley’s Latest Scam
October 13, 2018, 09:18:22 AM: 1 to KonstantinosM for Re: Universal Basic Income Is Silicon Valley’s Latest Scam

[cryptohunter]

Oh ... you're back. Or here anyway who knows with you and fox pup.

It has taken you like 2 days (in my time anyway) to dream up this response and once again ignore my previous questions. Try answering those first then we can discuss further else it just turns into a one sided debate with you not answering anything but just asking me more and more questions. I'm not asking for anything new I am asking for you to reaffirm your previous statements so I know if there is any chance of a sensible conversation. While you're about it show me the stats/evidence to back those up too since you love stats and have 20 other buddies who are stats experts it will be a trivial task.  Then you get to ask me things too.

I have responded to your questions, you just didn't like the answers. And I'm not really asking you anything new so if you don't feel like debating - don't. The question in my previous post was largely a rhetorical one. It's already been established with reasonable certainty that you can't or won't show us the unmerited good posts, which is the only thing that really matters to me in this whole discussion. I take the merit system seriously, you don't.

You have not responded. Let's try for one more time.  Yes or No. Not a lot of word salad trying to justify a bunch of excuses from merit/meta circle club.

So Yes or NO

1/Most of all pre merit legends are spammers

2/Is it crazy and idiotic to believe that some of the 99.87% of users can make posts as good if not better than some of the 0.13% of users (the top 200 merited individuals)

For now I will concentrate on suchmoon because I don't want to muddy the waters with excuses from malboroza.

For now try to hold up responding with excuses like well I just like reading merit board where there are basically just my pals, some noobs looking for merit crumbs and people wondering why their accounts are banned for copy and paste . The funny part is TP thought is was a legit and reasonable reply (that you made) and was obviously thinking it looked shady as would any other person looking at it.

The fact you think this kind of bookmarking your favs and showering merit on them as opposed to naturally browsing the board and giving merit to posts you organically fine 100% would exclude you from being a mod. Mods are mean to be totally objective and treat the systems in place in the spirit they were designed.  I mean the fact that a host of the top merit sources and holders freely admit they don't venture to the alt boards ( the boards most greatly effect and the greatest need to sort the wheat from the chaff) is in itself makes it obvious not even nearly the same chance exists for a merit on the alt boards as on the meta board.

There is no real need for opinion I have offered all these people a chance to demonstrate their merit is from a broad base of recognition and not one has offered to post their merit scores after passing a simple filter.

I want you to respond with one simple answer malboroza...

What is your earned merit score now and what would be your merit score if we removed the opinions of 0.13% of this board and removed all your meta merit.  Let me know that answer because these scores are what none of you care to publish where as you can not contain yourselves posting all other kinds of merit data.


Same goes for suchmoon TP fox loyce and any others arguing in this thread that merit is an accurate representation of post value.

Post your new scores or stop replying. I say you will all lose 80% or greater. Let's see if you lose less than 50% I will be very impressed but I know most will exceed an 80% loss.

I await to here such moons answers and all the other merit cycling clubs scores before they ask any more questions or make any more excuses.

I will wait to hear why you all lose such a huge 80% or great of your merits if just the opinions of 0.13% of users are cast aside and 1 tiny sub board which may have a reasonable amount of posts but I notice there are only a tiny % of regular posters that make the vast majority of the posts here.

So let me just ask this question to you all - suchmoon, loyce , anyone in this thread in a top 50 merited position posting in this thread.

I say some here have their merits reduced by over 90% which is quite hilarious.

Come on enough excuses, I don't have time, these stats are not important, these stats don't show anything, I don't like viewing other boards, I don't like viewing other peoples posts only bookmark my friends post histories, I can safely assume 99.87% of users can't make any good posts, lol

Now read this post and make some answers to the questions. suchmoon is refusing to answer yes or no to 2 simple questions on his previous statements, all are refusing to refute my statement they all lose 80%-90% + of their merits ....


@loyce

Please answer one set of questions before proceeding to the next stage of the conversation

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5081670.msg48556141#msg48556141


There is no point me even reading your posts if you are not willing to even make an effort to substantiate the claims that you make. I mean make an effort or remain quiet. Suchmoon at least will try sometimes to substantiate his excuses you just vanish for days then think you can come back and make no effort to provide any argument at all for your statements. Of course he wants to forget his rash statements made in anger because he is very emotional and that can cloud his otherwise reasonable and at time valuable contributions. Once he is able to discuss things in a civil way and not take everything to personally he will make a much better poster.

I am happy to remain civil and discuss anything reasonably, but I can not waste time on those that will not make effort to respond to questions or validate their statements. 

foxpup is a joker but seems to be able to remain civil.

I don't have an issue with any of you you are not scammers or anything really bad but you are unwilling to accept that your inflated merit scores are easily explained in other terms that are not because you are the most valuable posters. I have seen several times people implying their argument or their value is greater than someone else because of their higher merit score. This is not essentially true. You can not make statements like that.

The fact those the most effected by the removal of the merit club cycling and meta club are here arguing the most is quite telling too.

[suchmoon]

Post your new scores or stop replying. I say you will all lose 80% or greater. Let's see if you lose less than 50% I will be very impressed but I know most will exceed an 80% loss.
[...]
all are refusing to refute my statement they all lose 80%-90% + of their merits ....

You're the one making the claim. Go ahead and do it, the data is available.

I have seen several times people implying their argument or their value is greater than someone else because of their higher merit score.

Who said that?

organically

Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image

[cryptohunter]

Post your new scores or stop replying. I say you will all lose 80% or greater. Let's see if you lose less than 50% I will be very impressed but I know most will exceed an 80% loss.
[...]
all are refusing to refute my statement they all lose 80%-90% + of their merits ....

You're the one making the claim. Go ahead and do it, the data is available.

I have seen several times people implying their argument or their value is greater than someone else because of their higher merit score.

Who said that?

organically

HOMEMADE -  meta club home of the merit cycle and back slappers of btc.

I am not answering any more of your questions until you answer mine.  That is flat refusal by you many times in a row to answer questions directly regarding statements you have made. It is impossible to maintain a sensible discussion under those conditions.

[suchmoon]

HOMEMADE -  meta club home of the merit cycle and back slappers of btc.

Yep, that's exactly what we do. Our club gathers each week in Foxpup's foxhole and contrives devious plans on how to send more merits to ourselves because we so desperately need them... for something. Then we pile into the time machine and make sure to space the merits out by 28 seconds - that's like our secret handshake. Some of us are also involved in even more wicked activities, such as reporting poor and homeless shitposters to the authorities for the benefit... of something or other. And in between all that we sometimes even post things here, with words and numbers and everything because... reasons. It's the end of the world, I'm telling you. The unspeakable horror of forum users doing forumy stuff on the forum. We should be ashamed of this elitist backslapping and as a penance copy-paste something in scam ICO threads instead.

[marlboroza]

For now I will concentrate on suchmoon because I don't want to muddy the waters with excuses from malboroza.

What excuses?

The funny part is TP thought is was a legit and reasonable reply (that you made) and was obviously thinking it looked shady as would any other person looking at it.

Everything was pointing to something.

I want you to respond with one simple answer malboroza...

What is your earned merit score now and what would be your merit score if we removed the opinions of 0.13% of this board and removed all your meta merit.  Let me know that answer because these scores are what none of you care to publish where as you can not contain yourselves posting all other kinds of merit data.

Can you publish it for me?

The fact you think this kind of bookmarking your favs and showering merit on them as opposed to naturally browsing the board and giving merit to posts you organically fine 100% would exclude you from being a mod. Mods are mean to be totally objective and treat the systems in place in the spirit they were designed

I see good post and I don't have smerit. Why do you think I should not merit that post later? Post become bad all of sudden or something? Old? It doesn't deserve to be merited any more? What?

[cryptohunter]

For now I will concentrate on suchmoon because I don't want to muddy the waters with excuses from malboroza.

What excuses?

The funny part is TP thought is was a legit and reasonable reply (that you made) and was obviously thinking it looked shady as would any other person looking at it.

Everything was pointing to something.

I want you to respond with one simple answer malboroza...

What is your earned merit score now and what would be your merit score if we removed the opinions of 0.13% of this board and removed all your meta merit.  Let me know that answer because these scores are what none of you care to publish where as you can not contain yourselves posting all other kinds of merit data.

Can you publish it for me?

The fact you think this kind of bookmarking your favs and showering merit on them as opposed to naturally browsing the board and giving merit to posts you organically fine 100% would exclude you from being a mod. Mods are mean to be totally objective and treat the systems in place in the spirit they were designed

I see good post and I don't have smerit. Why do you think I should not merit that post later? Post become bad all of sudden or something? Old? It doesn't deserve to be merited any more? What?

Let me try to cut through the word salad excuses and exciting advances in time travel with foxs

@ suchmoon I still see no answers to the questions.

@malb

1st and last are related.

Middle one is just avoiding demonstrating your earned merits are reduced by 90%

There will always be some far fetched nonsense excuse.
Tell me how your story of meriting applies to fox pups smerit spamming of pharmacist. I mean walk me through it so he is browsing the board naturally reading and finding posts naturally to merit (not browsing his pals post history looking for excuses to give merit to them) and he runs out of smerits?? then what happens. Describe a realistic scenario that leads to this kind of merit history. I am ready to  change my opinion on fox pup given some realistic scenerio.

I mean really since you are all merit stats experts I would have thought you would all be falling over yourselves to provide data demonstrating my claims that your earned merit would be reduced by 90% is incorrect..... sadly it seems you will be so keen to to provide such data because you know I am correct.

Next I wonder if you took fox pups 3k plus merit and look what % went to his top ... let's say 30 pals that he runs out of merit for but never forgets to top them up as soon as he gets some more?

[suchmoon]

you would all be falling over yourselves to provide data demonstrating my claims

Do you have a Mountain Dew drip bag attached so that you can't move your ass and do this shit yourself?

Ah crap, that sounds like another question. Never mind.

[cryptohunter]

you would all be falling over yourselves to provide data demonstrating my claims

Do you have a Mountain Dew drip bag attached so that you can't move your ass and do this shit yourself?

Ah crap, that sounds like another question. Never mind.

That's it you're getting the hang of it now.

You need to answer questions  regarding your crazy statements not just continuously asking more and more questions that seem reasonable to you.

Have a think for a while and try again. Don't rush things. I know you need to take your time to get it all worked out in your mind first.

[Foxpup]

Tell me how your story of meriting applies to fox pups smerit spamming of pharmacist. I mean walk me through it so he is browsing the board naturally reading and finding posts naturally to merit (not browsing his pals post history looking for excuses to give merit to them) and he runs out of smerits?? then what happens. Describe a realistic scenario that leads to this kind of merit history. I am ready to  change my opinion on fox pup given some realistic scenerio.

I've already given you some realistic scenario. Whether you choose to believe it is your business, not mine.

Next I wonder if you took fox pups 3k plus merit and look what % went to his top ... let's say 30 pals that he runs out of merit for but never forgets to top them up as soon as he gets some more?

I have 30 pals now? Forgive me, but it appears I've become so popular that I can't keep track of all my friends (who appear to be in danger of exceeding the maximum occupancy of my foxhole). Perhaps you'd care to name these 30 pals to refresh my memory?

[cryptohunter]

Tell me how your story of meriting applies to fox pups smerit spamming of pharmacist. I mean walk me through it so he is browsing the board naturally reading and finding posts naturally to merit (not browsing his pals post history looking for excuses to give merit to them) and he runs out of smerits?? then what happens. Describe a realistic scenario that leads to this kind of merit history. I am ready to  change my opinion on fox pup given some realistic scenerio.

I've already given you some realistic scenario. Whether you choose to believe it is your business, not mine.

Next I wonder if you took fox pups 3k plus merit and look what % went to his top ... let's say 30 pals that he runs out of merit for but never forgets to top them up as soon as he gets some more?

I have 30 pals now? Forgive me, but it appears I've become so popular that I can't keep track of all my friends (who appear to be in danger of exceeding the maximum occupancy of my foxhole). Perhaps you'd care to name these 30 pals to refresh my memory?

Easiest way to find out for yourself is look at the top 30 receivers of your merit or just ask the names of the people that have crammed into your foxhole now and then. However having time travel and no space displacement abilities is not cool.

I accepted your account of events I have no idea why the others here are finding it essential to

1/ continue the conversation
2/ provide alternative excuses scenarios

It's like they don't believe your account of events or something. Haters...

[marlboroza]

since you are all merit stats experts

From where did you get this wrong info?

I would have thought you would all be falling over yourselves to provide data demonstrating my claims that your earned merit would be reduced by 90% is incorrect.....

My merit data: https://bpip.org/smerit.aspx?to=marlboroza
Now go and count merits.

sadly it seems you will be so keen to to provide such data because you know I am correct.

Actually I don't. Anyway, when you are done, please count merits in other boards, I would really like to know my stats.

[cryptohunter]

since you are all merit stats experts

From where did you get this wrong info?

I would have thought you would all be falling over yourselves to provide data demonstrating my claims that your earned merit would be reduced by 90% is incorrect.....

My merit data: https://bpip.org/smerit.aspx?to=marlboroza
Now go and count merits.

sadly it seems you will be so keen to to provide such data because you know I am correct.

Actually I don't. Anyway, when you are done, please count merits in other boards, I would really like to know my stats.

I wish I had time to do that or had the motivation. You seem generally like a good member and were reasonable on another thread where I think there was some heavy handedness occurring so it's not like scam hunting where there is a reward at the end. It's not like I want you banned or want to say you are net negative. However I don't feel the discussion was viewed objectively by some here and some claims have been made that are unrealistic at best.

 I mean just at a quick browse on your post history I can notice plenty of merits from people that are aligning with you in this thread. Do I say this is some collusion and dark purpose. No. I say there is a lot of collisions (not collusions) between a few people on a small board and they align with the views each other has therefore they want to bestow merit. Fair enough.

Let me state again.. merit is subjective so give it as you will to whom you wish. That is fine and I am not saying the top 0.13% post junk I mean a lot of good posters are in there and there probably is a high concentration of pretty good posters and some real top level posters. A lot of mediocre but well meaning posters who collaborate to achieve very good things. All should have some merit.

Just saying higher merit = better poster is not true. It is impossible to make that statement and I think rank depending on it past a certain level say full member is a bit harsh. Especially to posters of alt boards.

No need for further discussion. It just seems that some high merit posters will not accept this and want to continue arguing it is some kind of objective score achieved against some strict criteria which every post has been matched against.

Unless you can isolate some reason why this is not how it is and prove it or at least provide some sensible corroborating evidence then just stop posting and going around in circles. I'm sure most people arguing here are doing some good work and benefit the board but I can't just agree with them when I believe they are wrong about certain things.

[suchmoon]

prove it or at least provide some sensible corroborating evidence then just stop posting and going around in circles.

Great advice. Take it.