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Author Topic: How to steal Satoshi's stash?  (Read 11930 times)
jonald_fyookball
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March 11, 2014, 03:35:27 AM
 #81

Is it possible that a backdoor key exists?
If a backdoor exists then you could simply compute the private key given the public key and the backdoor key. Grin
 

I think it's possible, but how likely I don't know.  Seems unlikely because cryptography experts would have probably tuned the larger bitcoin community into the risk of that, and there would be more chatter of developing alternate hashing algorithms.  

If there is a backdoor it's a closely guarded secret that no one has seen any evidence of.

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kthejung
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March 11, 2014, 04:32:00 AM
 #82

You have all missed the obvious:  invent a time machine and go back to 2009, intercept Satoshi's usb drive containing private keys after he mines the genesis blocks, and then steal his Danish butter cookies.  Grin
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March 11, 2014, 04:58:48 AM
 #83



US government ideology.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us - Gandalf
Buffer Overflow
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March 11, 2014, 11:26:02 AM
 #84

This will just be another thing bitcoin flops on. It's already happened a few times. Everyone says bitcoin is rock solid bullet proof then the next thing ya know the chain is forked and shit is going to hell!

Then transactions are being reversed from gambling sites because a pool has too high % of the network.

Then transactions are being altered so people can rob exchanges all over the place!

Before ya know it there will be some shit with the SHA too. This whole it takes more energy to crack it then exists in the universe or whatever the fuck they are trying to say just ain't gonna fly. I bet Karpales made that picture.

Perhaps crypocurrencies aren't your thing then. Maybe play a different game.

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March 11, 2014, 01:36:23 PM
 #85

Wait what? did you even read beyond that point? you are partially quoting to prove that you are right is that what you trying to do here? I repeat my self todays computing power 10^15+ so theoritically if classical computing keeps going forward at the same pace it's advanced with since the 60s we will be looking at 10^30 10^40 Flops in the next decade or two which is enough to crack 128bits in a few seconds and we will move on to 10^70 Flops and beyond in another decade or two from there, that is without taking into consideration anything else! which not even remotly true

Obligitory XKCD:



Yeah lol, people do that mistake alot when extrapolating, but when you have 5-6 decades of data I believe it is safe to make an extention to the next decade or two, considering, that we've already know what's coming up in the next few year (example 2014, Intel moving to 14nm, and the other Fonderies to 20nm and under when it comes to CPU (production has already started), 2016 10nm with prototypes already existing in Intels labs for example and being tuned for production, everything Graphen related and nanotubes is already in labs all over the world being tested, enhanced and more importantly, starting to get an industrial orientation (production unites, process, and what's not) as for Quantum computing we are already doing the first baby steps in this area, commercial availability to develop software and firmware and alghorithms....
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March 12, 2014, 06:01:51 PM
 #86

Yeah lol, people do that mistake alot when extrapolating, but when you have 5-6 decades of data I believe it is safe to make an extention to the next decade or two

Go ahead. Extrapolate a decade or two. In fact, go ahead and extrapolate to the theoretically limits of the perfect computer harnessing the entire energy of the sun. You still can't even count to 2^256, let alone do the calcuations to brute force a Bitcoin private key. Re-read the graphic in post #2.

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Mensa
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March 12, 2014, 06:36:26 PM
 #87

One Does Not Simply Steal Satoshi's Stash.
bountygiver
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March 12, 2014, 06:48:16 PM
 #88

You have all missed the obvious:  invent a time machine and go back to 2009, intercept Satoshi's usb drive containing private keys after he mines the genesis blocks, and then steal his Danish butter cookies.  Grin
Or you can travel to the future where quantum computers work and bitcoin became obsolute because of that, compute his private key, return to original time and move all the funds.

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MoneyShot2
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March 12, 2014, 07:27:49 PM
 #89

Anyone is better off solo mining and hoping to find 10 000 blocks in a row than to crack priv keys.

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jonald_fyookball
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March 12, 2014, 08:03:50 PM
 #90

One Does Not Simply Steal Satoshi's Stash.

Post the meme image please

krampus
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March 12, 2014, 08:04:11 PM
 #91

Yeah lol, people do that mistake alot when extrapolating, but when you have 5-6 decades of data I believe it is safe to make an extention to the next decade or two, considering, that we've already know what's coming up in the next few year (example 2014, Intel moving to 14nm, and the other Fonderies to 20nm and under when it comes to CPU (production has already started), 2016 10nm with prototypes already existing in Intels labs for example and being tuned for production, everything Graphen related and nanotubes is already in labs all over the world being tested, enhanced and more importantly, starting to get an industrial orientation (production unites, process, and what's not) as for Quantum computing we are already doing the first baby steps in this area, commercial availability to develop software and firmware and alghorithms....

The only thing more annoying than idiots are idiots that think they're smart.

You, sir, are an idiot. No amount of technobabble (that you no doubt read somewhere on Gizmodo) is going to convince the actually smart people in the room that you have any idea what you're talking about. Best thing to do at this point is just to shut the fuck up, lest you look any stupider than you already do.

You're welcome.

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HowGudAmI
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March 12, 2014, 08:07:48 PM
 #92

One Does Not Simply Steal Satoshi's Stash.

Post the meme image please


http://imgur.com/aSH3OeV.jpg

Smiley
kuroman
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March 12, 2014, 08:55:43 PM
 #93

Go ahead. Extrapolate a decade or two. In fact, go ahead and extrapolate to the theoretically limits of the perfect computer harnessing the entire energy of the sun. You still can't even count to 2^256, let alone do the calcuations to brute force a Bitcoin private key. Re-read the graphic in post #2.

The only extrapolation I would do is to refer you to my previous comment, Ok I'll be helpfull and quote my self since you didn't bother to read the previous pages.
Feel free to list your counter arguments but just for the sake of not repeating our selfs I'll advise to read previous posts, because I'm pretty sure you'll ask similar questions that were asked previously and been replied.

You (like most people) have difficulty grasping how large 2^256 is (or even 2^128 which is the effective security of 256 bit ECDSA keys).   The 128 bit or 256 bit seems deceptively small.
 

As a math literate person I do gasp how huge 2^256 is.

Nobody credible is saying classical computers could brute force keys in thousands of years..... it would be billions of years using all the energy of our sun.  That also assumes you have a perfect computer.

And I do agree with this as in TODAY, the math is simple, our most powerfull supercomputers calculates in 30sh PFlops that's about 30x10^15 Flops Time in year = 3600x(24x365+6) = 31557600s and 2^256 ~ 1.14x10^77 so it will take to crack it with the usumption that it will require 100Flops per combination = 1.14x10^79/(31557600x30x10^15) =~ 1.20x10^55 years !

BUT THAT'S NOT THE POINT! My point is if you consider only classical computing in the last 30 years we've moved from KiloFlops to PentaFlops or 10^15Flops in terms of processing power, it is easy to assume that in the next few decades, we can easly achieve 10^30 / 10^40 (we've already gone past the point of cracking 2^128 or 128bits in a few seconds) and it will reach eventually 10^70+. In the 80/90s people (like you) were claiming 56 bit encryption was impossible to crack, and you know what, it takes like 3s and less to break with our current supercomputers!
And this doesn't take into consideration Alghorithm break trought as I mentioned, even the current classic computer with the proper alghorithms can simulate Quantum computers and have similar results in some areas for example......... Now if you add in the mix Quantum computing which will bring computing to a whole other level as the potentiel from a dozen of Qubit and the impact they have is already being proven.


Quote
None of those (except QC) would do anything more than switching from a teaspoon to a bucket when trying to empty an ocean.  
Wrong as proven above.

Quote
a) The private key isn't random enough (insufficient entropy due to flaw in PRNG)
b) ECDSA is cryptographically weakened/broken.
c) It becomes possible to build a QC with the tens of thousands of qubits necessary to implement Shor's algorithm against a 256 bit ECDSA public key (and public key is known).

It's not limited to this as proven above but :
a = Possible as proven with AES thanks to NSA Middeling
b = Possible
c = it will happen in the next decade or the one folowing, considering we've moved from 4 Qubits to 128 in a very short laps of time heck Dwave just released a 512 Qbits Processor and they claim to have a 1000 Qubits in their lab ready to roll
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/01/10/this-company-sold-google-a-quantum-computer-heres-how-it-works/

Also the Shor Alghorithm is not the most efficient Alghrorithm beyond 600 Qubits in comparaison to Fourier Transform
On one hand factoring and calculation logs and the other the usual linear transform that can be decomposed to I or Unitary Matrix, which Qubits likes.


The only thing more annoying than idiots are idiots that think they're smart.

You, sir, are an idiot. No amount of technobabble (that you no doubt read somewhere on Gizmodo) is going to convince the actually smart people in the room that you have any idea what you're talking about. Best thing to do at this point is just to shut the fuck up, lest you look any stupider than you already do.

You're welcome.

I was going to ignore your comment, but I decided to reply to it. Anyway, I doubt someone who understands math, physics, engineering, cryptography is an idiot. Even if it doesn't matter, I have a Bachelor degree in fundamental physics, a Master degree in Mechanical Engineering, a European Masters in Management and Business Strategy and also preparing a PhD if you doubt these I'm ready to provide all the necessary proves if you are ready to bet some BTCs Escrowed of course! So before calling other people Idiots and stupid without having the minimum skills to understand what they are saying please look at your mirror, you might have a hint.


As for the others I really apology for this little rant, because I believe that bitcointalk in general and this section in particular is not for epen contest, and I agree I should've just ignored, but sometimes you are in that day when you are a bit edgy.
jonald_fyookball
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March 12, 2014, 09:31:56 PM
 #94

I have a Bachelor degree in fundamental physics, a Master degree in Mechanical Engineering, a European Masters in Management and Business Strategy and also preparing a PhD

Someone as smart and educated as yourself should be the first to acknowledge that
there are limitations inherent in the physical universe in which we live.

Saying we're eventually going to get to 10^70 flops seems like an insane comment
that denies such a truth.

krampus
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March 12, 2014, 09:43:46 PM
 #95

I have a Bachelor degree in fundamental physics, a Master degree in Mechanical Engineering, a European Masters in Management and Business Strategy and also preparing a PhD

And yet you're still an idiot. Further proof that education doesn't make you smart.

I've worked in the computer industry for several decades. Everybody in this industry knows that Moore's Law is an observation of a trend, not a fundamental guarantee of future performance. And everyone knows that the constraints of physics (which you yourself claim to hold a degree in) will put a halt to that trend.

But I'm not going to try to convince you of these fundamental truths, or try to explain the math to you. Trying to educate educated idiots is a provably obvious waste of time. I'm just going to point out what a stupid fuckwit you are and be done with it.

Oh, but I will give you a tip: smart people know how to recognize people smarter than themselves. This is a critical differentiator between idiots and smart people.

I pledge never to use this space for sleazy referrals, gambling spam, or to beg for handouts.
jonald_fyookball
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March 12, 2014, 09:48:47 PM
 #96

I've worked in the computer industry for several decades. Everybody in this industry knows that Moore's Law is an observation of a trend, not a fundamental guarantee of future performance.


Well said.

MoneyShot2
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March 12, 2014, 09:51:49 PM
 #97

One Does Not Simply Steal Satoshi's Stash.

Post the meme image please

http://i.imgur.com/Q8VYREY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NyxngEf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2qaQJXF.jpg

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S4VV4S
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You make me laugh!


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March 12, 2014, 10:44:10 PM
 #98

I have a Bachelor degree in fundamental physics, a Master degree in Mechanical Engineering, a European Masters in Management and Business Strategy and also preparing a PhD

And yet you're still an idiot. Further proof that education doesn't make you smart.

I've worked in the computer industry for several decades. Everybody in this industry knows that Moore's Law is an observation of a trend, not a fundamental guarantee of future performance. And everyone knows that the constraints of physics (which you yourself claim to hold a degree in) will put a halt to that trend.

But I'm not going to try to convince you of these fundamental truths, or try to explain the math to you. Trying to educate educated idiots is a provably obvious waste of time. I'm just going to point out what a stupid fuckwit you are and be done with it.

Oh, but I will give you a tip: smart people know how to recognize people smarter than themselves. This is a critical differentiator between idiots and smart people.

Can I also add that smart people want to hang out with smarter people in order to get smarter?


kuroman
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March 12, 2014, 11:10:40 PM
 #99


Someone as smart and educated as yourself should be the first to acknowledge that
there are limitations inherent in the physical universe in which we live.

Saying we're eventually going to get to 10^70 flops seems like an insane comment
that denies such a truth.
This was answered before and I'll answer this again 10^70Flops is something inconceivable today! I don't think we disagree with this point, and I've been repeating this for a dozens of times, today we cannot brute force a 256bit encryption heck not even close to 128bit this is not even a point.

Where we disagree is in terms of future prospect. In the beginning of the 80s (I provided the numbers) Supercomputers were calculating the KiloFlops or 10^3 Flops! todays 10^16 Flops was inconceivable at the time, 56bit encryptions in the 80s and 90s were in that aspect impossible to crack and it would have taken Billions upon billions upon billions of years with the computing time, Today a supercomputer like the Tianhe-2 could crush in less than 3s (I can provide the math for the above if needed, as I did before.) in a similar way our computing power will move on in the next few decades and eventually it will reach a similar point to what is happening to 56bit encryption.

This is how science progress, and this is not limited to computing (while there is a reason tech is the are that progressing the fastest, being geopolitical reasons, economic reasons, defense reasons.....) Lets just see other science domains, for example the size of the universe, in the beginning of the 1900s we taught the universe was limited to the milky way, a few years we learned that milky-way is just one of many galaxies and today we know that only in the observable universe we have trillions of galaxies and it's the same story for any other field I can go on with this but it's not the point.

tl,dr: brute forcing a private key being it 128bit or 256bit is impossible today it's stupid to even try, and I've already provided the math for this and we do not disagree on this, my point is, in the next few decades we will eventually reach the point where we will have enough computing power to be able to do so as happened in the past!  


And yet you're still an idiot. Further proof that education doesn't make you smart.

I've worked in the computer industry for several decades. Everybody in this industry knows that Moore's Law is an observation of a trend, not a fundamental guarantee of future performance. And everyone knows that the constraints of physics (which you yourself claim to hold a degree in) will put a halt to that trend.

But I'm not going to try to convince you of these fundamental truths, or try to explain the math to you. Trying to educate educated idiots is a provably obvious waste of time. I'm just going to point out what a stupid fuckwit you are and be done with it.

Oh, but I will give you a tip: smart people know how to recognize people smarter than themselves. This is a critical differentiator between idiots and smart people.

Convince me? with what? Insults? please tell me/us, because so far it seems to be the only thing you are able to do, no argumentation, no facts, not able to maintain a proper conversation as a civilized person,
Quote
I'm just going to point out what a stupid fuckwit you are and be done with it
Are you twelve ? You are making yourself looks worst and worst, so again where are your proves? where are your facts? your arguments? weren't you calling me an uneducated idiot in your previous comment? what's happened to that?

Just one last peace of advice since you seem to be concerned about your e-ego more than anything else which is the biggest vice of someone who wants to learn a few things which is of course the total opposite of intelligence, just take a few seconds to reflect and leave your e-ego for youtube comments or something where everyone there is an expert...  (And I believe we all are here in bitcointalk to learn a thing or two being it in terms of cryptocurrency, trading .....ect or just to talk to people from different cultures) .
lnternet
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March 12, 2014, 11:38:27 PM
 #100

Just one last peace of advice since you seem to be concerned about your e-ego more than anything else
lol

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