[ANN] FlutterCoin FLT Proof Of Transaction Cash Back for Sending & Recieving

[thekidcoin]

During the stuck block, i was sending coins to bter.com and also receiving coins from the pool..but it isn't even confirmed (they were grayed out) .
Now i deleted everything except wallet.dat en conf...i think bter.com got the same problem if a block is stuck?

yep, hashrate dropped off.  Why it happens have no clue, but working on a different targeting algo... this is brutal.

No need to delete anything in the future, this has been happening every so often last 2 days.

[thekidcoin]

I'd just like to be able to leave my rig on FLT. I still don't think this is a hashrate/diff problem and would like to see some potential attempts to solve it...

Maybe look into implementing the DigiWave thing the DOGE people are putting in place in lieu of KGW (which can be exploited too), which would help as the coin gains more attention.

Some reference links:


http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/03/13/dogecoin-forks-again-to-avoid-multipool-exploit/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Digibyte/comments/1yn6t1/digibyte_v_20_code_name_digishield/

Its very clear what it is, blocks don't just magically get stuck LOL, they are just too difficult to find when the hashrate drops 50% + what the calculated difficulty was (which is exactly what these exploits can do).

For example say hashrate is supposedly 2 gH, and a block is calculated to be 50 difficulty, then suddely the hash drops to 1 gH, what happens it is VERY difficulty to mine the block at 1gH

This is one thing that was brought to my attention yesterday - which explains why pools on the correct chain were showing much more hashrate than was reported on the rest of the network https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=513382.0

I am definitely looking into these things, but remember, dogecoin is a POW coin I believe - there are a lot more moving parts in this coin...  If anyone knows people like Sunny King, Balthazar etc and is willing to ask them to take a look, it would be appreciated.  Or any other Dev that can make an educated guess for that matter.

We definitely will need to fork the coin in the next week - there are other things I want to put a stop to - not fix, but adjust for the better- so whatever this fix is it will be rolled in the next few days and the fork will happen no earlier than 7 days forward - unless we can get agreement with bter, and all pools to implement the update quickly.  Any ideas on the warning/window needed to implement a mandatory fix is also appreciated - if it can be done with 3 days warning or so, thats fine too.  Bter really is the key.

PM me the date and time when you want to fork.
I will make sure to update the wallet on the pool.

I suggest after 7PM GMT +1.

Will do.

[thekidcoin]

I'd just like to be able to leave my rig on FLT. I still don't think this is a hashrate/diff problem and would like to see some potential attempts to solve it...

Maybe look into implementing the DigiWave thing the DOGE people are putting in place in lieu of KGW (which can be exploited too), which would help as the coin gains more attention.

Some reference links:


http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/03/13/dogecoin-forks-again-to-avoid-multipool-exploit/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Digibyte/comments/1yn6t1/digibyte_v_20_code_name_digishield/

Please don't even think about implementing DigiShield in this coin.
Its even worse than KGW for smaller coins.
Will maybe work fine for Doge but it will kill Flutter for sure.

TheKidCoin do you read your PMs or is your Inbox already spammed?

yep i can see them ( i think let me delete some old ones)

[organizer]

Its very clear what it is, blocks don't just magically get stuck LOL, they are just too difficult to find when the hashrate drops 50% + what the calculated difficulty was (which is exactly what these exploits can do).

For example say hashrate is supposedly 2 gH, and a block is calculated to be 50 difficulty, then suddely the hash drops to 1 gH, what happens it is VERY difficulty to mine the block at 1gH

As i've been watching this, primarily on bitember and cloudminers... the hashrate isn't dropping right as the diff nudges up, people are sticking with it for 100's of percents above the target. When it gets to >500-1000% is when i'm seeing miners drop, not right on the switch.

I think the point of Bullus' posting of the blocks was that the difficulty inches up, the amount of shares needed climbs up as expected... but on block 10,870 it takes millions of shares vs. 10s of thousands... the difficulty change was .8ish.

So people aren't seeing a .8 diff change and immediately changing their miners causing what you are seeing in the hash drop. I think you're looking at only the raw numbers in the hash rate without realizing that people are leaving the pools AFTER it gets stuck, not at such a minute diff change.

I'm used to being on pools and getting the occassional 200-500% block.... but what i'm also used to seeing is the block number increasing as other pools (that i might not be mining on) are finding it. Here all pools get stuck on the same block until for whatever magic reason it unsticks.

[hoju2k]

Can't login to cryptotrain pool, anyone else have the same problem?

[bullus]

LAST 20 BLOCKS FOUND
Block         Validity   Finder   Time                Difficulty   Amount   Expected Shares   Actual Shares   Percentage
11088   119 left   xxx       16/03 18:24:41   19.63         9,709.00    80,409           107,033         133.11
11081   112 left   xxx       16/03 18:21:37   18.04         1,246.00    73,879           5,214,009         7,057.50
11075   116 left   xxx       16/03 16:50:29   29.13       3,261.00    119,314           25,468         21.35

I'm gonna switch coin, it happened the second time in 24 hours and miss some hours of mining.
Also the estimated coins/day is way off because of the "stuck" block.

Good luck,hope u can solve it soon, will be back than..

another 1?

Current Difficulty   20.90764077
Est. Next Difficulty   20.90764077 (Change in 1 Blocks)
Est. Avg. Time per Round (Network)   1 minute
Est. Avg. Time per Round (Pool)   1 minute 37 seconds
Est. Shares this Round   85638 (done: 2694.52%)
Next Network Block   11094    (Current: 11093)
Last Block Found   11093
Time Since Last Block   40 minutes 54 seconds

[Troj]

same here… should I switch pool ?

[thekidcoin]

If there were an issue with the blockchain, the pools would see rejected blocks for invalid work  or other issues - are they seeing blocks rejected?  If so, thats a problem with FLT.

The only possible issue is changing the way FLT changes difficulty, how it adjusts it etc.

We are stuck again - watch the hashrate reported by the network, and watch what the pools report.  Note how the network hashrate will go up matching what the pools are showing, then it will get stuck again.  Why is that?  Is that hashrate valid (see my post regarding a stratum exploit that has actually stalled other coins in the past week)?  Is the pool itself stuck?

I bet if these pools didn't allow near 1/2 of the network more to hash, we would not have this issue. 

[thekidcoin]

also note how after the block is solved, blocks are found in rapid succession

Noted the hashrate here - currently in block 11112 its 594 mH

http://explorer.fluttercoin.us/block_crawler.php

Noted the hashrate alone at the same block at bitember which is 600 mH

http://flt.bitember.com/

Noted the hashrate alone at the same block at cloudminers which is 800 mH

How is that possible?  Sure hashrate could be off a bit, but not that much.

Maybe https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=513382.20

Not sure

[Trujillo]

I am going to contact my friend @BryceWeiner from twitter to come in and look at the problem kidcoin. He most likely will be able to collaborate on a solution with you.

[bullus]

If there were an issue with the blockchain, the pools would see rejected blocks for invalid work  or other issues - are they seeing blocks rejected?  If so, thats a problem with FLT.

The only possible issue is changing the way FLT changes difficulty, how it adjusts it etc.

We are stuck again - watch the hashrate reported by the network, and watch what the pools report.  Note how the network hashrate will go up matching what the pools are showing, then it will get stuck again.  Why is that?  Is that hashrate valid (see my post regarding a stratum exploit that has actually stalled other coins in the past week)?  Is the pool itself stuck?

I bet if these pools didn't allow near 1/2 of the network more to hash, we would not have this issue.  

Seems like net hashrate is oke now 2197.40MH/s, it did takes about 30min to get at this point from 1300Mh/s i think when I last saw it.

block 11170...so we gonna get stuck again as u mention kidcoin

edit

yep, your theory is right, but when I check the poolhashrate all together it is now less than the net-hashrate. The net-hashrate is still the same (2197.4MH/s)

I also notice at miningwithus, the poolhashrate drops from 200Mh to 125Mh

[tic-tac-totoro]

Something wrong with bter? Seems like I'm missing a lot of deposits there...

[organizer]

I bet if these pools didn't allow near 1/2 of the network more to hash, we would not have this issue. 

You can't blame the pools and I still think this is something specific in the code of the coin. Even though we've had a big pool since BTER, we've also had a "kind of" big one that was around 50%-70% of biggest one... The blocks stalling with large hashing going on is a symptom, not the problem.

If it was simply a network hash percentage issue, we'd be getting forks (like before). We aren't getting forks, we're getting stalls, which again leads me to believe it's something tied to either the POB or POW (or combined)... The coin has never had this type of load before...

[organizer]

You should also consider PM'ing the devs that took over (and troubleshooted) the issues with GPUC. They were super cool talking to people in IRC and might be willing to lend a hand as well.

I think these are their names here:

Coin Dev - micryon (led the repair for the final launch)
Coin Dev - cryptowest

[jootn2kx]

lost 2700 flt in transaction from pool to bter during the fork so be careful when doing transactions

edit: There was also 1300 pending on bter... then when accepted it was sudden only 700??

Man sorry but i'm stopping giving support on this coin until problems sorted

[atleticofa]

lost 2700 flt in transaction from pool to bter during the fork so be careful when doing transactions

edit: There was also 1300 pending on bter... then when accepted it was sudden only 700??

Man sorry but i'm stopping giving support on this coin until problems sorted

It's not a good idea make transactions from pools to exchanges.

Pool -> Wallet -> Exchange

[seattletu]

i'm hopping off this coin too. i'll check back to see if the issue gets fixed

[jootn2kx]

lost 2700 flt in transaction from pool to bter during the fork so be careful when doing transactions

edit: There was also 1300 pending on bter... then when accepted it was sudden only 700??

Man sorry but i'm stopping giving support on this coin until problems sorted

It's not a good idea make transactions from pools to exchanges.

Pool -> Wallet -> Exchange

never had any issues with that ever I am 7 months into crypto and mined alot of different coins

I think the issue lays in the block forks, something is very wrong

[bullus]

nevermind...

[seattletu]

I am gonna have to start dumping some coins as a hedge in case the coin loses all momentum.