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Author Topic: FortuneJack Casino Refuses to Pay 20 BTC Won From Jackpot!  (Read 2247 times)
verusfides
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January 16, 2019, 11:14:27 PM
 #161

Sorry for the double post, but this is for a different-ish topic than my other post and I'd rather keep them separate.


verusfides went to AskGamblers for mediation:

This is a simple copy and paste of the original draft I had posted on another popular site that mediates online gambling called www.AskGamblers.com You can find the whole conversation thread regarding this incident here. https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/fortunejack-casino-uses-excuse-for-bug-in-one-game-to-refuse-payment-of-another-games-jackpot

This was AskGamblers response:

Considering all the information provided during the course of the complaints process,  AskGamblers Complaints Team believe that FortuneJack Casino management did everything within their powers to compensate accordingly player in this unfortunate event despite being clearly stated within casino terms that in such event, when games are malfunctioning, winnings will be voided:

    Aborted Games:

    1. FortuneJack shall not be held liable for any disruptions due to technical reasons or any other reasons outside of the Company’s control. Refunds are given on a case by case basis only, at the sole discretion of the Company.

    2. We shall bear no responsibility for any damages or losses that may or may not have arisen from the technical workings of the Website, connection issues, loss of data, misuse of the Website by any person, or otherwise.

    3. All wagers and bets shall be void in case of a system failure. The original wager shall be refunded.

    4. If a game is interrupted due to system failure, we will refund the amount wagered or bet made in the game by crediting the Account Holder’s Account. If the Account Holder has accrued credit at the time of the interruption, the Account Holder’s Account shall be credited with the corresponding monetary value. If the account is closed, the amount may be paid in an otherwise approved manner.

In addition, AskGamblers Complaints Team have been provided with valid evidence on behalf the management of FortuneJack Casino, where it is clearly shown that the player accepted casino's offer offered him on December 27th and happily played with the funds.

Based on the above, AskGamblers Complaints Team consider this case as Resolved and it is now officially closed. In case of a disagreement with our decision we remind player that further assistance on this matter could be requested from the relevant regulatory body.  



Given that verusfides has taken compensation, and mediation ruled against them, I think this case can be considered settled on the forum. (if verusfides wishes to proceed with their argument, they should get a lawyer). There's only the issue of fake provably fair left.
Is there a way you could manipulate the game and make it look like a glitch. In regards to the post you commented about the probably fair of the game itself not being provably fair because I refuse to believe for one second that this happened unknowingly and out of the blue on a game which was announced via email and notification to come play.
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January 17, 2019, 12:47:12 AM
 #162

Is there a way you could manipulate the game and make it look like a glitch.

Does "you" refer to FortuneJack or the player? In this case, the player can't manipulate the game as the crash value is fully generated on the server side and there is quite a bit of time before that crash value is played. FortuneJack could manipulate the game and make it look like a glitch, but there's no point for them to do that because it would mean they pay out a 0.08BTC bug bounty to everyone affected and they could undetectably modify bust values to make everyone lose if there was a high roller playing.

You're beating a dead horse at this point I think - you went for mediation, and mediation ruled against you. No point making conspiracy theories.

In regards to the post you commented about the probably fair of the game itself not being provably fair because I refuse to believe for one second that this happened unknowingly and out of the blue on a game which was announced via email and notification to come play.

FortuneJack has shown that they are pretty incompetent at running a casino, so I'm pretty confident that the fake provably fair was made out of incompetence and not malice. For example, they took over 20 days and their "top specialists" to fix a simple visual error and compensate the player for it.

We'll see how FortuneJack responds - optimally, they should refund all players who lost money playing Adrenaline as those players expected a fair game, but could have been cheated at any time. (and/or consistently, if the bust point deviates from a lower value than x1.98 for their 2% house edge)

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January 17, 2019, 01:43:53 AM
 #163

Is there a way you could manipulate the game and make it look like a glitch.

Does "you" refer to FortuneJack or the player? In this case, the player can't manipulate the game as the crash value is fully generated on the server side and there is quite a bit of time before that crash value is played. FortuneJack could manipulate the game and make it look like a glitch, but there's no point for them to do that because it would mean they pay out a 0.08BTC bug bounty to everyone affected and they could undetectably modify bust values to make everyone lose if there was a high roller playing.

You're beating a dead horse at this point I think - you went for mediation, and mediation ruled against you. No point making conspiracy theories.

In regards to the post you commented about the probably fair of the game itself not being provably fair because I refuse to believe for one second that this happened unknowingly and out of the blue on a game which was announced via email and notification to come play.

FortuneJack has shown that they are pretty incompetent at running a casino, so I'm pretty confident that the fake provably fair was made out of incompetence and not malice. For example, they took over 20 days and their "top specialists" to fix a simple visual error and compensate the player for it.

We'll see how FortuneJack responds - optimally, they should refund all players who lost money playing Adrenaline as those players expected a fair game, but could have been cheated at any time. (and/or consistently, if the bust point deviates from a lower value than x1.98 for their 2% house edge)
By you I do mean FortuneJack, and it's not a conspiracy it's just a theory because compared to the 0.08 they would have to pay out for the bug, what if the amount they had prevented in their casino from losing was greater? Wouldn't that just seem out of convenience a bug like that was in play that very given day? Considering an 80 BTC loss to 8 BTC loss (from bug bounty awards) wouldn't seem highly unlikely would it?

Also could you explain that last part? Does that mean that if the number stops before 1.98 in BPS? Sorry not very good at understanding the house edge for these games sometimes.

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January 17, 2019, 02:11:16 AM
 #164

By you I do mean FortuneJack, and it's not a conspiracy it's just a theory because compared to the 0.08 they would have to pay out for the bug, what if the amount they had prevented in their casino from losing was greater? Wouldn't that just seem out of convenience a bug like that was in play that very given day? Considering an 80 BTC loss to 8 BTC loss (from bug bounty awards) wouldn't seem highly unlikely would it?

Also could you explain that last part? Does that mean that if the number stops before 1.98 in BPS? Sorry not very good at understanding the house edge for these games sometimes.

I doubt there were any whales playing at the time. If there were, it's more profitable for them to abuse their broken provably fair, and take the whale's 80 BTC or whatever balance they had through bad crash points.

Also could you explain that last part? Does that mean that if the number stops before 1.98 in BPS? Sorry not very good at understanding the house edge for these games sometimes.

The BPS is supposed to average at x1.98 bust. If they have flawed RNG or cheat, they could average the bust at x1.75 for example which increases the house edge as it's harder for the player to win.

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January 17, 2019, 03:31:33 AM
 #165

By you I do mean FortuneJack, and it's not a conspiracy it's just a theory because compared to the 0.08 they would have to pay out for the bug, what if the amount they had prevented in their casino from losing was greater? Wouldn't that just seem out of convenience a bug like that was in play that very given day? Considering an 80 BTC loss to 8 BTC loss (from bug bounty awards) wouldn't seem highly unlikely would it?

Also could you explain that last part? Does that mean that if the number stops before 1.98 in BPS? Sorry not very good at understanding the house edge for these games sometimes.

I doubt there were any whales playing at the time. If there were, it's more profitable for them to abuse their broken provably fair, and take the whale's 80 BTC or whatever balance they had through bad crash points.

Also could you explain that last part? Does that mean that if the number stops before 1.98 in BPS? Sorry not very good at understanding the house edge for these games sometimes.

The BPS is supposed to average at x1.98 bust. If they have flawed RNG or cheat, they could average the bust at x1.75 for example which increases the house edge as it's harder for the player to win.
Yeah but, what if there's more than one whale. lets say 10 people with a balance of 10 BTC each all came to that casino to play on their machines only to find due to one being bugged none of those people earned any profits?

Also in reference to that link you sent me. Isn't that another clear example of manipulation? Its very funny that the events of global deposit manipulation happens on all their provably fair games. With that example they have the opportunity to reverse all bets at that time simply due to the fact that it was playing on opposite ends and claim due to a bug they have to reverse everyone's dice wager and all subsequent bets after right? Was this person awarded more bug bounty for making it aware on forums like I was? Because it seems to me they're subjectively glitching or creating small bugs on purpose with the intention of altering bets due to that event it's just that nobody thought of it to this extent. Dice is also a game that shouldn't even be subject to manipulation in anyway. How did that even occur? I've seen so many people use the same exact Dice format as FJ casino in so many other casino's yet none of them run into a glitch like that. Isn't the simplicity of provably fair the reason why it's promoted so well? Yet somehow on here, unexpectedly it would happen and that just so happens to return wagers of every person that came into contact with that game on that specific day. Whether they fell into a win or a loss. Isn't it strange that things like this very nature would happen over and over again?

This isn't even the fact of whether they're competent or incompetent. Who here has seen a Dice game glitch on where it rolls at opposite sides? Anyone see a glitch like that ever? I've never seen so much as a single problem other than lag in dice roll games. Tell me I'm wrong.
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January 17, 2019, 05:53:27 AM
 #166

Also could you explain that last part? Does that mean that if the number stops before 1.98 in BPS? Sorry not very good at understanding the house edge for these games sometimes.

The BPS is supposed to average at x1.98 bust. If they have flawed RNG or cheat, they could average the bust at x1.75 for example which increases the house edge as it's harder for the player to win.
To be entirely fair, given enough time, there will be a set of 60 consecutive games in which the SpinBPS is >200 -- simply saying this is unlikely does not mean it should not have happened. Being that the game is not provably fair, it is difficult to say one way or another there were a sequence of games that should have had a SpinBPS of over 200.

In regards to your rationale that there was a "system failure" because the game was not provably fair, I would not agree with you on this. The game not being provably fair is the result of FJ misrepresenting a feature of the game. I would note the game is presently not provably fair.

One could argue (reasonably) the game paying out wins on a 200 BPS, when the SpinBPS was under 200 is a "system failure", and I would agree to the extent it can be believed the seeds were not changed after the fact to make the SpinBPS be under 200.

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January 17, 2019, 06:17:56 AM
 #167

If the winnings from the bugged game were removed, and the bug bounty was added to the OP's account, he would have sufficient funds to cover the bet that resulted in his jackpot win, and as such, I believe there is a strong argument he should receive the entire jackpot win.

look, this is impossible, The bug bounty was issued only after seizing the jackpot winnings, what obviously means that firstly jackpot was won using the bug money, than the winning was seized and only after the bounty was given. I will upload another screen from our back office (information hidden are usernames of other players affected by bug and given bounty as well)



The bounty was raised only after my involvement to 0.2 adding 0.12 to players account, this is the moment when I thought we were settling and raised bug bounty because player was in rare rage and really felt bad for him and situation was delicate as well.



Hope this is the last one on this topic, we are open to make more files public, that guided us to the decision and is interesting for community.

Cheers,
David.

I was under the impression the OP was eligible for the bug bounty from reading this reddit thread, but it looks like that bounty only applied to PLINKO and MINES, not the game in question.

The delay in adjusting the OP's account is still concerning because the OP was under the impression his balance was higher than it was, and likely made larger bets accordingly. This effectively guarantees a player will either lose their entire deposit or will have any winnings clawed back, effectively making any bets by the player risk free to the casino.

It continues to be my position that FJ should payout a minimum of what was described here by MadZ (and agreeing with his logic).

Given that the OP has shown to frequent your casino, it is reasonable to say he would have gambled absent the win via the bugged game.

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January 17, 2019, 06:27:14 AM
 #168

If the winnings from the bugged game were removed, and the bug bounty was added to the OP's account, he would have sufficient funds to cover the bet that resulted in his jackpot win, and as such, I believe there is a strong argument he should receive the entire jackpot win.

look, this is impossible, The bug bounty was issued only after seizing the jackpot winnings, what obviously means that firstly jackpot was won using the bug money, than the winning was seized and only after the bounty was given. I will upload another screen from our back office (information hidden are usernames of other players affected by bug and given bounty as well)



The bounty was raised only after my involvement to 0.2 adding 0.12 to players account, this is the moment when I thought we were settling and raised bug bounty because player was in rare rage and really felt bad for him and situation was delicate as well.



Hope this is the last one on this topic, we are open to make more files public, that guided us to the decision and is interesting for community.

Cheers,
David.

I was under the impression the OP was eligible for the bug bounty from reading this reddit thread, but it looks like that bounty only applied to PLINKO and MINES, not the game in question.

The delay in adjusting the OP's account is still concerning because the OP was under the impression his balance was higher than it was, and likely made larger bets accordingly. This effectively guarantees a player will either lose their entire deposit or will have any winnings clawed back, effectively making any bets by the player risk free to the casino.

It continues to be my position that FJ should payout a minimum of what was described here by MadZ (and agreeing with his logic).

Given that the OP has shown to frequent your casino, it is reasonable to say he would have gambled absent the win via the bugged game.
could I also add to this extent that the bounty was 0.2 I deposited 0.5 subsequently throughout the day and continuing onwards for the next night the amount total I would have had to wager altogether right before the plinko bet was 0.670 meaning I would've gotten to that bet regardless. I really don't see why they keep ignoring this logic. I'm supposed to accept its my bad luck that got a jackpot taken from me. It's more like they used an excuse to keep it for themselves.

I told him to add the amount I deposited after my jackpot had been removed but this guy seems to only care about his own position instead trying to be relatively fair in any regards to my case.
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January 17, 2019, 06:32:06 AM
 #169

could I also add to this extent that the bounty was 0.2 I deposited 0.5 subsequently

If I was next in line to buy a scratch off, oh shit why didn't I chose 2 different numbers on the lottery - WOW if I had left the house 30 seconds later I would of been involved in that car crash.

Sorry bud but it isn't going to fly here, Even QS is no longer stating that you are due the 20BTC, the mediation service has sided with the casino - I do not see the point in you continuing. However I am interested to hear feedback from DarkStar when he has spoken with FJ, pretty sure the other senior members who wear the signature are in the same boat as me.


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January 17, 2019, 07:19:54 AM
 #170

could I also add to this extent that the bounty was 0.2 I deposited 0.5 subsequently

If I was next in line to buy a scratch off, oh shit why didn't I chose 2 different numbers on the lottery - WOW if I had left the house 30 seconds later I would of been involved in that car crash.

Sorry bud but it isn't going to fly here, Even QS is no longer stating that you are due the 20BTC, the mediation service has sided with the casino - I do not see the point in you continuing. However I am interested to hear feedback from DarkStar when he has spoken with FJ, pretty sure the other senior members who wear the signature are in the same boat as me.


this and that have nothing to do with each other. Implying I had a certain balance and then reversing said balance when in regardless of it all with or without their bug money I would've had said balance for plinko bet is really completely different from what you're stating. I would've had the money to make the bet regardless isn't that what it all comes down to. I assumed I won money you can't assume I didn't have the money to play if I didn't have the bug money cuhz I readily made the deposits. You're gonna side with the casino for what to save your sig money? Really don't be a jackass. In my shoes you wouldn't argue anything your saying so don't assume the casinos position when you know you'd probably be arguing just the same as I am to receive payment. They can't negate all factors of what happened till this point and argue because of the bug they can't pay me. I've deposited and kept depositing so who's to argue I wouldn't get there that day. They created the what if possibility simply because they delayed the bug bounty. And keep this in mind even if they only gave 0.08 with the deposits I made after that would still have been enough for the jackpot. I'm gonna argue why they were so late with bug payment when seemingly to me they gave everyone's payment earlier. Also they'd have to pay anyone who clicked auto play even once the bug bounty because even if the bug was used under the BPS auto pay option it would still be considered being a bug. Anyone who won from the auto play but lost money overall should get the bug bounty. You wanna argue trite information like that to defend the company tell me I'm wrong in saying they should pay all users 0.08 BTC. Anybody in correlation shouldve gotten paid. If they didn't though and they start doing that now because of what everyone on this forum has said, that begs in question why they can't allow the deposits I made after to correlate the plinko bets. After all that's considered their fault too is it not? Are they now suddenly inclined to only correct faults of their choosing? They can't defend their position on bugs without accepting my position because that contradicts that they can't reverse anything that's been done. There's even conversation suggesting hes willing to reverse someone's winning they had paid out in adrenaline. Regardless of whether the bug had anything to do with it isn't the problem. If the company is so willing to reverse the decision of all problems that arose from the game Adrenaline then they would have to include all the possibilities that could've happened without the game in play.

They're trying to make it sound like it couldn't have happened without the bugged money but yes it damn well would have bugged money or not this isn't a theory it's a fact.
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January 17, 2019, 07:25:50 AM
 #171

~snip~

wall of text - not reading. Why do you not accept the word of the Casino, mediator and many many senior people here? you are behaving more like cryptofuck with each post.

1) you signed up to TOS (not anyone else's fault if you didn't fucking read them)
2) you accepted the bounty payment.

Please explain to me in a concise way how the above statements are incorrect, because if you cant then you have 0 argument - end of..

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January 17, 2019, 07:31:55 AM
 #172

~snip~

wall of text - not reading. Why do you not accept the word of the Casino, mediator and many many senior people here? you are behaving more like cryptofuck with each post.

1) you signed up to TOS (not anyone else's fault if you didn't fucking read them)
2) you accepted the bounty payment.

Please explain to me in a concise way how the above statements are incorrect, because if you cant then you have 0 argument - end of..
I signed up to the ToS so I also signed up to the part they would be liable of anything cause by their gross negligence. Also in ToS it says they will pay up to 30 BTC or its monetary value in terms of any problem arising out of the casino. Did I cause this problem? They did fully not me.

Yes I accepted but shouldn't that just be given anyways? Was a bug bounty supposedly right?

What I would also really like to know is why do they ignore explaining their liability rules 6 and 8 at all costs. Everytime I bring this up they ignore this and move to a different notion not once have I been given anything straightforward in its regards.
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January 17, 2019, 07:41:58 AM
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 #173

I signed up to the ToS so I also signed up to the part they would be liable of anything cause by their gross negligence. Also in ToS it says they will pay up to 30 BTC or its monetary value in terms of any problem arising out of the casino. Did I cause this problem? They did fully not me.

Yes I accepted but shouldn't that just be given anyways? Was a bug bounty supposedly right?

Argument is dead then fella, I hate to say it but you have as much as an argument here as a flat-earth believer.

my advice, take some time off the forum, come back on monday - spend the weekend wanking, smoking J's going for walks or hitting the gym. When you come back, take yourself out of the situation, stop being emotional and re read the thread - if you still feel the same way - tough shit, but in all likely hood you might be a little more reasonable. I am in no way having a go at you "if" I were in the situation I would probably want to get my hands on $70K as well, so I am not blaming you - but I am slightly concerned for your health here, continuing down this path could lead to serious problem gambling as you want to "win it back off those casino cunts" but that wont happen - the house always wins.

please take my words as concern for you and not me talking on behalf of FJ or trying to pull the wool over your eyes - take time off, come back with a clear head - the forum will still be here & FJ will still be here

.FORTUNE.JACK.
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January 17, 2019, 07:50:01 AM
 #174

Firstly, I would like to close the case verusfides. Actually, I don't think there is anything left here to discuss, we made our point and player is clearly panicking and we can not continue with this. For last argument even askgamblers and its team made it clear that FortuneJack did everything possible to act fair in this case. See the complaint record here ===>> https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/fortunejack-casino-uses-excuse-for-bug-in-one-game-to-refuse-payment-of-another-games-jackpot.



I would like to touch a post made by  DarkStar_. I think I am voicing companies position here, we value research and opinion and point made by dear community member very much. The post has been sent to game creators team and they are thoroughly studying it. I would like to ask user to write me personally on discord, I would like to be personally in touch with him, FortuneJack team is working on the case and detailed explanation will be issued by company publicly as well. Sorry it takes a little bit of time, differences between time zones are killing it.

Cheers,
David.




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January 17, 2019, 12:37:10 PM
 #175

@fortunejack just give him some more funds and end this crazy fight.

in a legal matter you will lose depending where he is based from if you are licensed or not in that area.

just settle with him at an amount and end this fight that is not helping you at all.

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DarkStar_
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January 17, 2019, 04:11:08 PM
 #176

@fortunejack just give him some more funds and end this crazy fight.

in a legal matter you will lose depending where he is based from if you are licensed or not in that area.

just settle with him at an amount and end this fight that is not helping you at all.

It's settled - they gave him compensation (0.2BTC), he went to mediation to fight them, and mediation ruled against him. If OP wishes to proceed with their fight, they should do so in a legal system.

There's really no more reason to be arguing this on the forum.



I would like to touch a post made by  DarkStar_. I think I am voicing companies position here, we value research and opinion and point made by dear community member very much. The post has been sent to game creators team and they are thoroughly studying it. I would like to ask user to write me personally on discord, I would like to be personally in touch with him, FortuneJack team is working on the case and detailed explanation will be issued by company publicly as well. Sorry it takes a little bit of time, differences between time zones are killing it.

DM sent

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January 17, 2019, 04:18:33 PM
 #177

It's settled - they gave him compensation (0.2BTC), he went to mediation to fight them, and mediation ruled against him. If OP wishes to proceed with their fight, they should do so in a legal system.

There's really no more reason to be arguing this on the forum.
Why is not he willing to do it in a legal system?

Why did he ask gamblers?

Are gamblers lawyers or lawyers are gamblers? Cheesy

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January 17, 2019, 04:22:42 PM
 #178

Are gamblers lawyers or lawyers are gamblers? Cheesy

OP = please ignore this nutjob, should you wish to go legal - do it with someone local to you. This poster is just a crackjob

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January 17, 2019, 05:13:15 PM
 #179

Are gamblers lawyers or lawyers are gamblers? Cheesy

OP = please ignore this nutjob, should you wish to go legal - do it with someone local to you. This poster is just a crackjob
Really?

Quote
SBR statement:

Game Protect are the experts in this area.

If they say you will need to obtain proper legal help, then you should follow their advice.

SBR is a USA-centric service and these sort of claims for your money back if you can get back in to a book, when you would also be here demanding winnings if they tried to deny paying you based on your account closure request, are not compatible with SBR's view of fair industry practice.

Game Protect or some other UK-centric ODR service more in tune with this idea is your best bet.

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January 17, 2019, 05:26:10 PM
Merited by Initscri (1)
 #180

Game Protect are the experts in this area.

err... I think a better reference would be 4000+ posts on this forum and only 4 merits.

I have seen pajeet newbies who can barely put a sentence of English together have a better hit rate than that - Jog on back to your hole, adults are talking here

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