grin is now accepted for forum payments

[LennySands]

keybase is a joke for security though

How so? It uses PGP under the hood.

[1714899014]

1714899014

[1714899014]

1714899014

[phishead]

Can GRIN do this? Can GRIN compete with VISA and remain decentralized and immutable with a fixed supply and no trust in 3rd parties?

s/fixed supply/predictable supply/

Yes, that combined with its privacy is what makes it so exciting. You can probably achieve even greater scaling with BTC+LN, and I consider that quite likely to be what the economy actually goes toward, but grin is a very different and interesting alternative approach.

If I'm not mistaken, Grin has a 100 byte kernel baggage for each transaction that stays forever. So it might be more scalable than Bitcoin (an impressive feat considering that it adds a level of privacy as well), but still not Visa-level scalable. I'm not sure how it can be compared to LN's much better scaling.

You are forgetting about security. Sure it may be able to confirm tons of tx’s quickly, but if some group of people want to 51% attack, you are fucked.  That’s what makes Bitcoin super valuable... most vetted for, most tested, most valuable cryptocurrency with a shit ton of hashing power to prevent bad actors from rewriting the ledger.

[thedevworks]

Just got my Copper, paid using Grin Sweet

[theymos]

Just got my Copper, paid using Grin Sweet

Glad it worked!

[thedevworks]

quick and painless. Took about a minute. Nice implementation!

[rkowal]

Grin has a retarded inflation rate. How do you think its price will remain sustainable?

Grin in the long run reaches store of value functionality + deterministic money supply (inflation) provides assurance/expectations around that. Early on speculation but SoV feature there4 it can become digital money.

Inflation in the early years (first 4 yrs) is exactly -the same- as bitcoin's btw, but SoV in much longer term.

See here I read it twice already https://medium.com/@CryptoProfG/grin-money-explained-4-exploring-grins-monetary-model-e48b1761653

[khaled0111]

Just got my Copper, paid using Grin Sweet

We should remember this post.
Maybe ten years from now it will be seen as this one:

I just want to report that I successfully traded 10,000 bitcoins for pizza.

Pictures: http://heliacal.net/~solar/bitcoin/pizza/

Thanks jercos!

[gbks]

A few observations I had while implementing this:

By default they want you to essentially pay to IP addresses. This was stupid when Satoshi tried it 10 years ago, and it's stupid now. At the very least you should strongly encourage (ie. nearly force) people to give out public keys along with their IPs, since otherwise MITM attacks are trivial. Even then it sucks to require the recipient to run an open-to-the-Internet server at all. And for goodness' sake, don't use the broken/centralized HTTPS system; the Bitcoin Core devs have been going to a lot of trouble trying to remove that garbage from Core.

A better protocol for the copy/paste method is needed. For one, you shouldn't have to use intermediary files. I was annoyed when I did grin wallet send -m file -d - and it actually created a file called "-" instead of writing to stdout like it should.

grin needs to be much better at handling transactions that never continue beyond the first or second step in the three-way transaction process. They probably shouldn't even show up in the main transaction log.

Currently I think that there's no way for the recipient to get the modified slate after running receive the first time (eg. if it gets lost), which is nuts. And currently there appears to be no reasonable method for proving that you sent a transaction.

The community is working pretty hard on addressing these. Right now, it's all about getting the infrastructure going, and then hopefully soon we'll get a better user experience around it. Just a matter of time (and of course, everyone can help and speed things up).

[farzher]

cool.

to anyone complaining that bitcointalk should only accept bitcoin:
supporting grin is a good way to test mimblewimble.
and mimblewimble could potentially improve bitcoin in some way, since it has an elegant solution for scaling & privacy.

[InvoKing]

Will review it and i may give it a shot (mining tho).

[VoskCoin]

pretty interesting development especially with your other thoughts youve voiced in other thread(s) here on bitcointalk about grin

cool to see though -- nice to see people genuinely excited / interested about some projects w/ a bit of merit in the space lately as opposed to the last 6 months that have just felt totally dead.

[boomboombazookajeff]

And i thought Grin won't launch it's mainnet anytime soon. But looks like the client is far from user-friendly and only mid-high end GPU can mine GRIN for now.

Any chance you'll accept another cryptocurrency (XMR, ETH or perhaps DOGE) soon?

XMR is possible, but probably not the others.

I guess I have already proven my point. Didn't expect it this quick though.

24h Low / 24h High
$6.92 / $261.65

Imagine FOMOing and buying it for $261.65.

Since the inflation rate is so high in the first ~year, I think it will probably go even lower, probably under $1, and I'd expect the price chart of the first year to be a general downward trend. Again, I don't particularly recommend buying this stuff, and I myself am not going to be buying large amounts soon. But if it survives for several years and ends up competing effectively with other coins on scaling and privacy, then the inflation rate starts becoming reasonable even despite its unlimited supply (see my comment here), and we could at that point see an upward price trend. Even at $1 it'd be an extremely risky investment, but in any case it's an extremely interesting piece of tech.

And I'll be periodically adjusting the forum exchange rate, BTW.

We are in a forum where we are suppose to support bitcoin. Everything we do to promote bitcoin but when a character like theymos indirectly publicly vouch for something else then it will create a mess for sure.

Satoshi created Bitcoin and this forum in order to change the world, not to create a "Cult of BTC". In fact, Satoshi recommended creating Namecoin, the first altcoin. (Though Namecoin ended up being one of the bolt-stuff-onto-cloned-Bitcoin systems that I've never really respected.) I'm not going to start jumping on every alt bandwagon and treating every cryptocurrency as just as good as any other, nor do I believe that grin is currently anywhere close to BTC in terms of overall utility. But grin has true merit, and if you're interested in Bitcoin for the same reasons that Satoshi created it (freedom, privacy, and interesting tech), then grin is worthy of acknowledgement.

TBH I would prefer to be able to pay with XMR instead of Grin since XMR is more stable atm. That being said, I think it is a good step overall to give credit and opportunity to true cypherpunk coins that are adding to the cryptospace. I do hope that this experiment of accepting Grin leads to the acceptance of XMR at a later date. In the interim, however, I think I will give Grin a go to purchase copper. Cheers!

[coingecko]

I'm super excited about grin. All past altcoins have been just Bitcoin with a few bits tacked on; occasionally these extra bits are useful/interesting (eg. Monero or Ethereum), but in the vast majority of cases this extra stuff is just meaningless marketing-oriented garbage. But grin is packed full of useful innovation from top to bottom; moreover, it's clearly built in the same cypherpunk spirit that Bitcoin was: increased freedom/sovereignty through technology.

Therefore, I'm happy to announce that the forum is now accepting grin payments automatically, probably the first site other than exchanges to do so. You'll find a link at the bottom of the evil-fee and copper-membership pages.

grin is new and clunky to use. I don't expect many people to use it, honestly. But I needed to rewrite the forum payments system anyway in order to support LN in the future and to fix some longstanding issues with the old code, so adding grin support worked out nicely.

I don't recommend buying or not buying grin. Due to its emission schedule, I'd guess that its price will have a general downward trend for quite some time, but who knows. Currently I own zero grin (though I will be buying from the forum all grin obtained), I was not paid to add grin support, and in fact not a soul knew that I was going to do so. grin support might be removed later if it dies off or becomes too time-consuming for me to maintain.

I tested this with grin's floonet (testnet), but not mainnet yet since I don't have any grin. Hopefully it works.


A few observations I had while implementing this:

By default they want you to essentially pay to IP addresses. This was stupid when Satoshi tried it 10 years ago, and it's stupid now. At the very least you should strongly encourage (ie. nearly force) people to give out public keys along with their IPs, since otherwise MITM attacks are trivial. Even then it sucks to require the recipient to run an open-to-the-Internet server at all. And for goodness' sake, don't use the broken/centralized HTTPS system; the Bitcoin Core devs have been going to a lot of trouble trying to remove that garbage from Core.

A better protocol for the copy/paste method is needed. For one, you shouldn't have to use intermediary files. I was annoyed when I did grin wallet send -m file -d - and it actually created a file called "-" instead of writing to stdout like it should.

grin needs to be much better at handling transactions that never continue beyond the first or second step in the three-way transaction process. They probably shouldn't even show up in the main transaction log.

Currently I think that there's no way for the recipient to get the modified slate after running receive the first time (eg. if it gets lost), which is nuts. And currently there appears to be no reasonable method for proving that you sent a transaction.

Congratulations on this. Great move, theymos! We at CoinGecko are equally excited about Grin as well and are following things closely.
You are spot on about Grin price having a downward trend at the start due to the limited supply.

[Chris!]

That's awesome to hear. I've mined a few so far and will be HODLing them, but this seems like a win win win. You can buy some grins, the forum gets more money (maybe) and maybe it'll help a little with adoption. It's very clunky and currently only a Linux wallet so who knows about the price. It could keep going down or skyrocket once it's easier to use.

There's still a lot to learn with grin! Everybody just keep reading as much as you can.

[Brucelats]

I'm super excited about grin. All past altcoins have been just Bitcoin with a few bits tacked on; occasionally these extra bits are useful/interesting (eg. Monero or Ethereum), but in the vast majority of cases this extra stuff is just meaningless marketing-oriented garbage. But grin is packed full of useful innovation from top to bottom; moreover, it's clearly built in the same cypherpunk spirit that Bitcoin was: increased freedom/sovereignty through technology.

Therefore, I'm happy to announce that the forum is now accepting grin payments automatically, probably the first site other than exchanges to do so. You'll find a link at the bottom of the evil-fee and copper-membership pages.

grin is new and clunky to use. I don't expect many people to use it, honestly. But I needed to rewrite the forum payments system anyway in order to support LN in the future and to fix some longstanding issues with the old code, so adding grin support worked out nicely.

I don't recommend buying or not buying grin. Due to its emission schedule, I'd guess that its price will have a general downward trend for quite some time, but who knows. Currently I own zero grin (though I will be buying from the forum all grin obtained), I was not paid to add grin support, and in fact not a soul knew that I was going to do so. grin support might be removed later if it dies off or becomes too time-consuming for me to maintain.

I tested this with grin's floonet (testnet), but not mainnet yet since I don't have any grin. Hopefully it works.


A few observations I had while implementing this:

By default they want you to essentially pay to IP addresses. This was stupid when Satoshi tried it 10 years ago, and it's stupid now. At the very least you should strongly encourage (ie. nearly force) people to give out public keys along with their IPs, since otherwise MITM attacks are trivial. Even then it sucks to require the recipient to run an open-to-the-Internet server at all. And for goodness' sake, don't use the broken/centralized HTTPS system; the Bitcoin Core devs have been going to a lot of trouble trying to remove that garbage from Core.

A better protocol for the copy/paste method is needed. For one, you shouldn't have to use intermediary files. I was annoyed when I did grin wallet send -m file -d - and it actually created a file called "-" instead of writing to stdout like it should.

grin needs to be much better at handling transactions that never continue beyond the first or second step in the three-way transaction process. They probably shouldn't even show up in the main transaction log.

Currently I think that there's no way for the recipient to get the modified slate after running receive the first time (eg. if it gets lost), which is nuts. And currently there appears to be no reasonable method for proving that you sent a transaction.

Congratulations on this. Great move, theymos! We at CoinGecko are equally excited about Grin as well and are following things closely.
You are spot on about Grin price having a downward trend at the start due to the limited supply.

This is true but quite inaccurate data. This doesnt show how many grin was actualy bought for that price and it was serious bottleneck on the exchanges. It still is. Its a mess. Its stupid use 200$ ++ price even as real or rational.

But yes its downtrend like every crypto now, this inflation is more like longterm effect, this inflation of grin have absolutely no impact on this short term price decline.

[chek2fire]

I have mine grin for some days and test it.
My conclusion is that is coin is a crap and i cant find any reason for this coin to exists.
First it says that is anonymous but requires to open a port to your system to receive a payment.. lol. The other option to receive a payment is through emai... second lol...
Second. It has no limit cap to tokens inflation. 30 mil coin per year. And Dogecoin has no cap but is very easy to use it as an every day payment system. In the other hand grin is by design very difficult to use it as an every day payment system and of course with 30 million tokens per year no one will use it as a store of value.
Third. Chinese miners already exploit grin mining and from the first day mining centralised to big farms.
My conclusion is that Grin for sure is not Bitcoin 2.0 but is Bitcoin 0.1.

[tranthidung]

I don't know but I guess that the rate for grin is a fixed one, at

Code:

0.00675676 BTC via grin, send 2.252253333 grin

At the rate, theymos accepted higher rate than real-time price of Grin on exchanges at the moment.
No one knows where Grin will go next months.
Let's see.

Anyway, it is interesting to see that the forum eventually accpeted another payment gater, rather than only in bitcoin.

[chek2fire]

I don't know but I guess that the rate for grin is a fixed one, at

Code:

0.00675676 BTC via grin, send 2.252253333 grin

At the rate, theymos accepted higher rate than real-time price of Grin on exchanges at the moment.
No one knows where Grin will go next months.
Let's see.

Anyway, it is interesting to see that the forum eventually accpeted another payment gater, rather than only in bitcoin.

bad decision imo. Grin is another pure shitcoin. Nothing special.

[DeathAngel]

What kind of software is required to mine it?

Anybody give me noob instructions?

[bones261]

We should probably move discussions about grin itself to the ANN thread in the altcoin discussion.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5090427.new#new

The discussion here should be limited to the pros and cons of Bitcointalk taking it as an payment, IMHO.