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Author Topic: [ANN] Grin | PoW Mining | Electronic transactions for all. Community driven.  (Read 45740 times)
theymos
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January 16, 2019, 06:06:15 PM
Merited by Welsh (10), suchmoon (7), chimk (4), OgNasty (1), LoyceV (1), Last of the V8s (1), fapar (1), VoskCoin (1)
 #181


I'm not a huge fan of the fixed subsidy, but it is deflationary long-term. Because the subsidy remains the same while the money supply grows (and may shrink due to lost coins), a graph of the inflation rate over time is steadily downward, and will eventually reach low levels. However, since their stated reason for doing this was to ensure that miners are properly incentivized, it would've made more sense to set the subsidy such that the monetary inflation rate is a constant 0.5% or something. As they've designed it, the inflation rate will start out way too high, and then if grin survives for a very long time, it'll eventually become too low to actually meet their goal of incentivizing miners.

Inflation will ensure a general downward price trend for at least the first year, I'd expect, and it becomes sort-of reasonable only after 4 years. Will grin survive that long? Not sure. If you think it will, then it might make sense to buy grin at very cheap prices in its first few years, and this thinking could perhaps stabilize the market somewhat.

Grin inflation rates
Year #Yearly monetary inflation rate
136500%
2100%
350%
433%
525%
620%
717%
814%
1110%
215%
343%

It's possible that people will get just too fed up with the inflation in the first few years, and everyone will move to a clone, similar to the Bytecoin->Monero switch. Beam is too much of an obvious cheap money-grab to succeed IMO, though.

In addition to the money supply issue, grin is a worse store of value than Bitcoin because:
 - The dev culture is built upon a more flexible idea of system consensus. There are expected to be regular hardforks.
 - The crypto is experimental, and the currency is far newer.
 - Smart contracts are more limited, though at this time I'm not exactly sure how much more limited.

A BTC-backed grin clone could be a Bitcoin sidechain, but you won't see this anytime soon. First of all, there sadly hasn't been that much work on Bitcoin sidechains. Also, although you can do a semi-centralized sidechain without any consensus work or widespread costs, a full-security sidechain involves a softfork which would require all Bitcoin full nodes to also be grin-sidechain full nodes, increasing full node costs. I'd guess that if it happens at all, it won't be for 3-5 years, after grin has proven itself. At that point grin could have a significant first-to-market advantage, and its inflation will be reaching reasonable levels.

Unlike the vast majority of other altcoins, grin was basically built in the same spirit as Bitcoin - the same ideology. I'm a "Bitcoin maximalist" because I believe in "the Bitcoin idea/ideology", not as part of some game theoretic strategy to make BTC's price go up. If Bitcoin is out-competed in all respects (which grin is very far from doing, and other altcoins aren't even in contention for), then it'd be good for Bitcoin to be replaced by that competitor.

IMO in 10 years:
 - 30% chance grin is defunct, but roughly the same basic features are provided by other BTC-based off-chain systems such as LN.
 - 25% chance grin is defunct, but basically the same thing exists as a widely-used Bitcoin sidechain.
 - 15% chance BTC is the main store of value in crypto, while grin or a very similar altcoin is used for most daily payments.
 - 1% chance grin advances significantly, and combined with its first-to-market advantage vis-á-vis its innovations, it out-competes BTC entirely.
 - 14% chance some other altcoin out-competes BTC entirely. It won't be one of the existing ones, except perhaps grin as mentioned above.
 - 15% chance global authoritarianism makes it very difficult to use cryptocurrencies at all, and the whole sector is reduced to a tiny niche.

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January 16, 2019, 06:29:58 PM
Last edit: January 16, 2019, 06:42:03 PM by Last of the V8s
 #182

Gosh thank you so much, theymos, for taking the time and trouble to provide such a fulsome response. Not sure if monero and other altcoin cultists will be so thrilled. It's certainly a grand experiment.
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January 16, 2019, 07:03:51 PM
 #183

I'm not a huge fan of the fixed subsidy, but it is deflationary long-term. Because the subsidy remains the same while the money supply grows (and may shrink due to lost coins), a graph of the inflation rate over time is steadily downward, and will eventually reach low levels. However, since their stated reason for doing this was to ensure that miners are properly incentivized, it would've made more sense to set the subsidy such that the monetary inflation rate is a constant 0.5% or something. As they've designed it, the inflation rate will start out way too high, and then if grin survives for a very long time, it'll eventually become too low to actually meet their goal of incentivizing miners.

I'm not qualified to make these type judgements but it would seem to me to make a perfect and correct choice on the percentages then you would have to in advance know that the end size of the userbase and security needed to sustain that during the design phase which is impossible. There fore using a best guess that is subject to change will allow you to better see that future as time goes on and make adjustments as that time approaches. This approach will also allow the time for others to weigh in on the design and allow for a growth of those working on the problem as the initial product is being created.


Unlike the vast majority of other altcoins, grin was basically built in the same spirit as Bitcoin - the same ideology. I'm a "Bitcoin maximalist" because I believe in "the Bitcoin idea/ideology", not as part of some game theoretic strategy to make BTC's price go up. If Bitcoin is out-competed in all respects (which grin is very far from doing, and other altcoins aren't even in contention for), then it'd be good for Bitcoin to be replaced by that competitor.

I specifically like this as listening to purists that spout the holy grail code has already been written gets old fast.

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January 16, 2019, 07:16:12 PM
 #184

I've been getting about 7.5 GPS steady on my x2 1070s and x1 1060 6gb on Grinmint with almost no downtime, however even with full fans the cards are getting pretty hot

Has anyone found an undervolt/overclock that improves performance and/or lowers temps for c29?

Also has anyone tried mining c31 on cards with less than 11gb or c29 on cards with less than 8gb?

I found a mining OS that lets you mine c29/c31 GRIN on 4GB cards that I am going to be trying later today but just wanted to see what others had tried

I haven't tried anything yet, but I'm eager to mine some grin on my 4gb cards! Please share if you get it to work.
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January 16, 2019, 07:18:49 PM
 #185

Hi guys, I tried to start mining and received an error . Has anybody else had this problem? How can i fix it?
I use a 6 GPU mining rig.
Sapphire RX 580 4Gb
4Gb Ram
Celeron dual-core.

10x

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January 16, 2019, 07:25:16 PM
 #186

Hi guys, I tried to start mining and received an error https://i.imgur.com/aCYwhWV.png. Has anybody else had this problem? How can i fix it?
I use a 6 GPU mining rig.
Sapphire RX 580 4Gb
4Gb Ram
Celeron dual-core.

10x

The RX 580s with 4GB don't have enough memory for the Windows miner unfortunately

You need at least 8Gb of memory on the Windows miner and 6Gb on the Linux miner as far as I've seen
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January 16, 2019, 07:26:36 PM
 #187

Hi guys, I tried to start mining and received an error . Has anybody else had this problem? How can i fix it?
I use a 6 GPU mining rig.
Sapphire RX 580 4Gb
4Gb Ram
Celeron dual-core.

10x
increase swap file to 50GB, then restart windows, then try again.

Masternodes, delegates, POS mining, forging etc Follow 👉 🌱 https://twitter.com/LikeMasternode 👉🔵 https://t.me/NEWSMasternodeLikePro
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January 16, 2019, 07:26:39 PM
 #188

Hi guys, I tried to start mining and received an error. Has anybody else had this problem? How can i fix it?
I use a 6 GPU mining rig.
Sapphire RX 580 4Gb
4Gb Ram
Celeron dual-core.

10x

GRIN requires 5.5GB of memory.

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January 16, 2019, 07:56:59 PM
 #189

Hi guys, I tried to start mining and received an error . Has anybody else had this problem? How can i fix it?
I use a 6 GPU mining rig.
Sapphire RX 580 4Gb
4Gb Ram
Celeron dual-core.

10x

The RX 580s with 4GB don't have enough memory for the Windows miner unfortunately

You need at least 8Gb of memory on the Windows miner and 6Gb on the Linux miner as far as I've seen

Is this a definitive requirement? Will there be any chance for 4GB GPU's to also work in the near future?


Hi guys, I tried to start mining and received an error. Has anybody else had this problem? How can i fix it?
I use a 6 GPU mining rig.
Sapphire RX 580 4Gb
4Gb Ram
Celeron dual-core.

10x
increase swap file to 50GB, then restart windows, then try again.
Tried, didn't work unfortunately.....


Hi guys, I tried to start mining and received an error. Has anybody else had this problem? How can i fix it?
I use a 6 GPU mining rig.
Sapphire RX 580 4Gb
4Gb Ram
Celeron dual-core.

10x

GRIN requires 5.5GB of memory.

RAM or for GPU's?

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January 16, 2019, 08:12:08 PM
 #190

RAM or for GPU's?

Both. At least 6GB on the GPU and 6-8 GB of virtual memory per GPU.

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January 16, 2019, 08:16:09 PM
 #191

Someone just upthread from your first post 3d00m mentioned he was testing a 4GB miner. I've also heard of https://www.grin-forum.org/t/miner-for-amd-nvidia-4g-6g-8g-10g-gpu-from-minerbabe/2184 working ok but please be careful about random stuff downloaded from the internets. run it on a separate machine etc...
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January 16, 2019, 09:06:35 PM
 #192

Is there a way to mine this on Windows? I only see linux miners on the first page? edit: installing linux, no big deal Smiley




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January 16, 2019, 09:29:51 PM
 #193

Another overhyped coin that won't amount to anything significant
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January 16, 2019, 09:40:43 PM
 #194

But the tech could lead to new ideas on consensus models. And speculation is the name of the game for now. Happy hunting  Grin

PS. too bad Windows 10 users have a disadvantage now that the mining software does not run on Window 10 properly yet.

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January 16, 2019, 09:50:39 PM
 #195

Is there a way to mine this on Windows? I only see linux miners on the first page? edit: installing linux, no big deal Smiley
https://www.grin-forum.org/t/gringoldminer-windows-mining/1794
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January 16, 2019, 09:52:03 PM
 #196

Are you guys EXCITED?Huh

So if there are no addresses and exchanges of Grin are 'person to person' so to speak, then if I mine on a pool using windows miner, how would I be rewarded for mining ?  Is it by IP, email ?  I don't have a Linux instance currently to view the wallet.

I don't know how it works with mining specifically, but in general: grin payments require a three-way process. This can be done automatically through an IP address or keybase, or you can do it manually like this:

1. The sender runs grin wallet send -m file -d FILE.txt GRIN_AMOUNT, which creates the file FILE.txt.
2. The sender gives FILE.txt to the recipient.
3. The recipient runs grin wallet receive -i FILE.txt, which creates another file FILE.txt.response.
4. The recipient gives FILE.txt.response to the sender.
5. The sender runs grin wallet finalize -i FILE.txt.response, and the transaction is done.

The IP/keybase methods do these same steps, just automatically.

I'm not going to be mining, but I would like to buy some grin ASAP on the first day. If anyone here is lucky enough to quickly mine some, I'll pay $13/grin (in BTC), but only for the first few grin I buy. PM me.


A few hours after the official launch of the mainnet and the first Grin there are already 10 exchanges that have announced to immediately quote the new coin:

www.bitforex.com
www.bitmesh.com
www.galeon.exchange
www.grinpay.org
www.chainrift.com
www.hb.top
www.nexex.io
www.vinex.network
www.kkex.vip
www.bisq.network

I'm curious to see how much Hash will immediately have Grincoin, or in the first 24-48 hours, how much hash will move / lose  Beam in favor of Grin, but above all I'm curious to see if tomorrow with the fork of Constantinople of Ethereum you will have a mining escape to more profitable coin (see Grin) ?!

In my opinion, the next 24-48 hours will be very interesting for the market, and for different subjects (miner and speculators)!


Still another 2 exchanges added to the list
www.bit.cc
www.lbank.io

Meanwhile on bitmesh open deposits and early exchanges at crazy prices, while all the others still seem closed
for now just over 6000 tradable Grin

Finally, report it on BitForex trading with 0 fee until January 30th




Someone just upthread from your first post 3d00m mentioned he was testing a 4GB miner. I've also heard of https://www.grin-forum.org/t/miner-for-amd-nvidia-4g-6g-8g-10g-gpu-from-minerbabe/2184 working ok but please be careful about random stuff downloaded from the internets. run it on a separate machine etc...

They are working on it but nothing official yet

Is there a way to mine this on Windows? I only see linux miners on the first page? edit: installing linux, no big deal Smiley

Currently only with Linux, but I'm sure that within a week we will have support for Windows and 4Gb cards; within 1-2 months mobile wallet.


What puzzles me for Grin is the slow confirmation of the blocks, even for the accreditation in exchange it takes at least 30 blocks confirmed.
This, together with "infinite inflation" (even if tending to 0) could be seen by many as an obstacle!



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OgNasty
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January 17, 2019, 02:46:11 AM
Merited by VoskCoin (1)
 #197

CONGRATS ON GRIN NOW BEING ACCEPTED BY BITCOINTALK.ORG!!!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5098450.0

Have you seen my prize winning cow? She’s out standing in her field.
trackers
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January 17, 2019, 03:42:54 AM
Merited by infofront (1), Last of the V8s (1)
 #198

Anyone seen any mining profitability calculators for Grin?

Dovey Wan's is the only I've seen so far:

https://twitter.com/DoveyWan/status/1085612061705400320



Last of the V8s
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January 17, 2019, 03:45:27 AM
Last edit: January 19, 2019, 09:22:16 PM by Last of the V8s
 #199

Anyone seen any mining profitability calculators for Grin?
Dovey Wan's is the only I've seen so far:
https://twitter.com/DoveyWan/status/1085612061705400320
quoted for visibility. thx
edited: down in size now that he can post images
JoenNL
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January 17, 2019, 08:07:45 AM
 #200

How can i delete all from grin?

Since i installed this net2.2 and other related Grin software i cant mine any other coins (instant freeze) and cant watch/stream things like Netflix (non stop buffering).

We already found it its all because of this coin and his network related software, only advise i get: reinstall windows 10..

Is there any other solution to get rid of this coins software?? And please, many miners are complaining, add this in a big big warning before people gonna install the (windows xp) software what is needed for this coin. I'm very pissed because of this!

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