@theymos It's time to make DT blacklist.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I often wonder why some DT members are never part of these endless rows, could it be because their ratings are seen as fair?

Which level of DT are we talking about here?  DT1?  It gets confusing these days. 

Some DT1 members don't jump into the drama because they likely know it's a never-ending fight and it's more or less just wasted energy to keep engaging in the troll wars.  Even if their ratings are fair (or more fair than others), the people on the other side of the fence will never see them as such, because it's just a battle for power and no one is prepared to give up an inch of ground.  This whole situation is just silly.  Theymos set the criteria for getting onto DT1.  I didn't fight to get on it.  Lauda wasn't even on DT2 at the time, nor was TMAN and some of the others. 

As far as the trust lists and "votes" DT1 members have cast, I'm not seeing where this grand conspiracy is coming from--maybe because I'm not in the loop, but who knows.  But those who are yelling the loudest about how unfair it all is (cryptohunter, Thule, etc.) will never stand a chance of getting on to even DT2.  All they do is whine and scream, while the rest of the upstanding DT1/2 members are actually trying to fix some of the problems bitcointalk has, i.e., finding scammers, account dealers, and all the other stuff that landed them on DT in the first place.

[Theb]

The good thing about the DT system right now is the merit requirement that comes with it, this system until now is fending off the removal of members deserving to be in the DT list. Most of the voters ganging up don't even have the leverage of merit right now to remove a DT members. And even if they succeed on having a DT member of their own a lot of members in the DT list can quickly put them on their distrust list which would quickly remove them, that is why you will see a lot of names crossed-out from the trust list page.

you are one of the members suddenly acting like the police in every thread possible, don't worry a lot of users will be removed

Not suddenly, take a look on my trust page. More then 35 Scam ICO's exposed by me, is it suddenly ? and I don't care even removed me, I will continue my job like before.

It's funny how they use their reference links and it will just redirect to the ANN Thread of the scam coin you have busted, as if it will prove that you are deserving to receive their negative feedback. But the truth is they are just incriminating themselves more of what they are doing.

[Jet Cash]

Identified Flying Object (IFO)
(Better than a UFO.  Much better than an ICO.)

I take exception to that comment. An ICO ( Identified Cat Object ) is far superior.

[cryptohunter]

I often wonder why some DT members are never part of these endless rows, could it be because their ratings are seen as fair?

Which level of DT are we talking about here?  DT1?  It gets confusing these days.  

Some DT1 members don't jump into the drama because they likely know it's a never-ending fight and it's more or less just wasted energy to keep engaging in the troll wars.  Even if their ratings are fair (or more fair than others), the people on the other side of the fence will never see them as such, because it's just a battle for power and no one is prepared to give up an inch of ground.  This whole situation is just silly.  Theymos set the criteria for getting onto DT1.  I didn't fight to get on it.  Lauda wasn't even on DT2 at the time, nor was TMAN and some of the others.  

As far as the trust lists and "votes" DT1 members have cast, I'm not seeing where this grand conspiracy is coming from--maybe because I'm not in the loop, but who knows.  But those who are yelling the loudest about how unfair it all is (cryptohunter, Thule, etc.) will never stand a chance of getting on to even DT2.  All they do is whine and scream, while the rest of the upstanding DT1/2 members are actually trying to fix some of the problems bitcointalk has, i.e., finding scammers, account dealers, and all the other stuff that landed them on DT in the first place.

You see this is the problem with people like the pharmacist. He tries to set terms like "whining" "screaming" "trolling"

Actually he does not want the presentation of facts that demonstrate clearly he himself is so greedy and sneaky he set up a sock puppet racist trolling account called Huge Black Woman to sig spam for more btc dust. He got busted because he was trying to get to a better paid sig campaign for his sneaky sig spamming racist sock puppet account. Whilst if you notice a lot of his posts are addressing the problem of "financially motivated posters"

Sorry that is not trolling, whining, screaming. That is the presentation of fact that demonstrates how greedy and sneaky and untrustworthy these people really are.

Other FACTS like lauda is a proven liar, or TMAN Admits in black and white he gives red trust to people presenting facts about wrongdoing and untrustworthy behaviour. That is not trolling, whining, screaming. That is the presentation of facts.

Want evidence. Just ask.


Theb - The merit requirement of 250 earned merits is not the good thing. It is the most damaging thing theymos has done yet to this board. He has given total control of both systems of control here to the same gang of colluders and scum bags.

The fact you believe this is a good thing to make collusion and centralised control easier tells me you have learned nothing since you have been here.  Those 2 systems of control should have been separated and given strict criteria.

The mere fact you think this is a good idea is ludicrous and proves to me

1. you have not examined the evidence regarding the people that are on Dt1 and dt2
2. you have idea what the 250 earned merits threshold does.

[LoyceV]

Am I the only one who doesn't really worry about this just yet?

Theymos said this:

~
But if it looks like a "scammer's cartel" is forming, then I'd change the criteria to fix it. For example, one obvious weak point is that you can try to push an infinite number of people into DT1 by trusting as many people as you want; one way to try to fix this would be to take only a fixed-size random subset of everyone's trust list into account, perhaps with the size determined by the truster's merit.

This part has been implemented already, DT1 "voting power" is determined by Merit.

But for now I am very much inclined to just let it roll for a while and see exactly where the cracks appear.

Theymos wants to see where this ends up, if it goes south, he'll adjust things. I'm very curious to see under which conditions the community can be more or less self-regulating when it comes to DT-power.

This summarizes it nicely:

I feel that we are all part of Theymos "ant-farm " experiment.

Don't forget: the DT1-update isn't automated yet, theymos has to manually run it. I can only assume he'll check for extreme abuse before pushing the update live.

This seems like a good place to promote [New and Updated] LoyceV's Trust list viewer (updated weekly).

[Jet Cash]

Theymos is really a department in the IMF, and it has the responsibility of controlling the second phase of Bitcoin, Satoshi was another department, and it was disbanded once the genesis block was laid. The whole thing was predicted in the names of the books of the Old Testament.

Genesis - Satoshi laid the first block and collected 1 million Bitcoin
Exodus - All of the disciples who created Bitcoin leave as wealthy men, or disillusioned posters.
Leviticus - The rise of the bankers.
Numbers - Gaining control of mining. This stage is only just starting with the confiscation of mining rigs that are imported into Iran, once the US gains control of Iran, they can use the oil and the mining rigs to take control of the Bitcoin network
Deuteronomy - The farewell address as the controlling elite enter the land of silk and money.

I'll let you guys finish this  post, as I don't want to get into the "Judges" bit.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Am I the only one who doesn't really worry about this just yet?

Not at all. I'm just watching the whole thing with some mild amusement.

These trolls will get nowhere. To get someone voted on to DT1, they need votes from 2 members with 250 merit each, amongst other things. These trolls currently spamming Meta and Reputation don't have 250 merit between them, let alone on one account, doubly let alone on two accounts. Even if they bought enough merit (because lets be fair, they are never going to earn enough) to give them enough voting power to get one of them to meet the DT1 criteria, that person would probably be excluded long before theymos recalculated the list. cryptohunter, for example, already has 11 DT1 exclusions.

This is before any of it even reaches theymos, who, as LoyceV has pointed out, would step in if these scammers somehow did achieve all this.

[cryptohunter]

Am I the only one who doesn't really worry about this just yet?

Not at all. I'm just watching the whole thing with some mild amusement.

These trolls will get nowhere. To get someone voted on to DT1, they need votes from 2 members with 250 merit each, amongst other things. These trolls currently spamming Meta and Reputation don't have 250 merit between them, let alone on one account, doubly let alone on two accounts. Even if they bought enough merit (because lets be fair, they are never going to earn enough) to give them enough voting power to get one of them to meet the DT1 criteria, that person would probably be excluded long before theymos recalculated the list. cryptohunter, for example, already has 11 DT1 exclusions.

This is before any of it even reaches theymos, who, as LoyceV has pointed out, would step in if these scammers somehow did achieve all this.

Scammers? err please remain just a moron and not a liar now also. Prove I have scammed anyone ever.

Whilst I can prove DT members are liars, trust abusers and sneaky sock puppet racist trolling sig spammers.

I have proof you have nothing.

DT exclusions right now are like endorsements for being honest. Calling me a scammer is ludicrous.

You olieoe are the untrustworthy one for supporting proven liars and self confessed trust abusers.

Actually you are just a noob fool who has zero clue about most things here. Just another sig spammer gaming the system for your own ends.

[otrkid1970]

The trust system is and will always be BROKEN.  If you put a few names on the so called "Trust" list and let them go wild with their own assumptions and allegations people will suffer.

I would not trust a single Fucker on the trust list with a $1  That is what trust is all about.

It was meant for the Market place...Not for spammers and Account buyers or for anything else.

Get rid of it. You can't fix Stupid.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

These trolls currently spamming Meta and Reputation don't have 250 merit between them, let alone on one account, doubly let alone on two accounts.

And that's exactly why they're whining about it, claiming it's unfair and blah blah blah.  

Meanwhile, I'm more concerned about finding decent posts (especially from lower-ranked members) to give merits to.  Every time I take the plunge and visit Bitcoin Discussion looking for hidden gems I end up finding plagiarism or bought accounts instead.  This concerns me far more than this petty power struggle with the army of newbie trolls.  The only thing they're capable of doing is making a lot of noise and making fools out of themselves.

I keep hearing about how merits get circulated amongst the DT members.  Can anyone show me how I'm a part of that?  It's true I've given merits to some of them, but most of my earned merits didn't come from members like Lauda, LoyceV, Vod, or any of them.  Most of the sMerits I've given out haven't been to DT1 members.  I think in general this is an argument that's been debunked, and yet it keeps surfacing.

It was meant for the Market place...Not for spammers and Account buyers or for anything else.

Funny, that's the argument TECSHARE keeps making--likely because if it were true he'd be back on DT, since he has done a lot of successful trades.  The truth is that this trust system isn't set up like eBay's and never was about just the marketplace.  I won't argue that the system is broken or that successful trades and being able to trust someone with money ought to be rewarded with positive trust.  At the same time, some individuals who can be trusted with money might themselves abuse the trust system (TECSHARE) and thus might not be fit to be on DT.  True story.

Edit:

https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=The%20Pharmacist

Go look at all his fans and recipients.... then look at their fans and recipients....

Yeah, and look at the total number of merits I've given to and received from the DT members.  They represent a small fraction of the merits I've earned and the ones I've given out.  Sorry I peeped at your post, but obviously you're trying to make it look like I give most of my sMerits to DT members and get most of my earned merits from them.  That isn't true by a long shot, kiddo.

[cryptohunter]

These trolls currently spamming Meta and Reputation don't have 250 merit between them, let alone on one account, doubly let alone on two accounts.

And that's exactly why they're whining about it, claiming it's unfair and blah blah blah.  

Meanwhile, I'm more concerned about finding decent posts (especially from lower-ranked members) to give merits to.  Every time I take the plunge and visit Bitcoin Discussion looking for hidden gems I end up finding plagiarism or bought accounts instead.  This concerns me far more than this petty power struggle with the army of newbie trolls.  The only thing they're capable of doing is making a lot of noise and making fools out of themselves.

I keep hearing about how merits get circulated amongst the DT members.  Can anyone show me how I'm a part of that?  It's true I've given merits to some of them, but most of my earned merits didn't come from members like Lauda, LoyceV, Vod, or any of them.  Most of the sMerits I've given out haven't been to DT1 members.  I think in general this is an argument that's been debunked, and yet it keeps surfacing.

LOL this guy thinks people are blind

https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=The%20Pharmacist

Go look at all his fans and recipients.... then look at their fans and recipients....


I mean then go to the DT list of includes excludes.....

These people are fucking morons if they think we do not see them all cycling their merits and supporting each other on DT

Imagine the top 20 they would all be there cycling merit round and round and round.

Out of 150k users imagine these bunch that turn up in every thread together if one is called out all infested on their fans and recipients and all including each other for DT.

LOL what collusion

Notice how the pharmacist is not discussing his proven sneaky greedy actions of using a sock puppet racist trolling sig spamming for extra btc dust. However just keeps trying to cast these FACT as trolling or conspiracy theories haha Please fool start realising this will not wash. People can see what is clearly happening here now and now that theymos got pushed into this 250 cycled merits crap everyone can see just how corrupt and broken the entire thing is.


So you have a bunch of people giving out merit to each other  so they can gain the key positions in the DT system and all vote for each other to be included in that.

So now those 2 systems of control and tied as 1 big control system that controls paid2post and trading. Whilst the people controlling it all have selfish motive to game it as they like for their own financial gain. Look at them all spamming their sigs everywhere.

[otrkid1970]

These trolls currently spamming Meta and Reputation don't have 250 merit between them, let alone on one account, doubly let alone on two accounts.

And that's exactly why they're whining about it, claiming it's unfair and blah blah blah.  

Meanwhile, I'm more concerned about finding decent posts (especially from lower-ranked members) to give merits to.  Every time I take the plunge and visit Bitcoin Discussion looking for hidden gems I end up finding plagiarism or bought accounts instead.  This concerns me far more than this petty power struggle with the army of newbie trolls.  The only thing they're capable of doing is making a lot of noise and making fools out of themselves.

I keep hearing about how merits get circulated amongst the DT members.  Can anyone show me how I'm a part of that?  It's true I've given merits to some of them, but most of my earned merits didn't come from members like Lauda, LoyceV, Vod, or any of them.  Most of the sMerits I've given out haven't been to DT1 members.  I think in general this is an argument that's been debunked, and yet it keeps surfacing.

LOL this guy thinks people are blind

https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=The%20Pharmacist

Go look at all his fans and recipients.... then look at their fans and recipients....


I mean then go to the DT list of includes excludes.....

These people are fucking morons if they think we do not see them all cycling their merits and supporting each other on DT

Look at a

He is one the many many reasons DT is broken. the list is an orgy of fuckwads.

[o_e_l_e_o]

And that's exactly why they're whining about it, claiming it's unfair and blah blah blah.

Agreed, but they fail to offer a credible or workable alternative. The only options I've heard from them are "Ban Lauda and the gang"* and "Use this trust list filled with known scammers and users who have left no ratings instead". In other words, complete nonsense. I can see a couple of ignored posts from cryptohunter up there, which I can only assume are him calling me a liar and part of the aforementioned gang. The last time I read his posts his idea of "fair" was allowing plagiarizers off the hook and saying that all the altcoin spammers deserved more merit but failing to provide a single post to substantiate that claim.

If one of the trolls came up with a system which would actually work, I'd be very keen to discuss it (and I'm certain others would to). The longer they keep talking such nonsense, the more people are going to be utilising that ignore button.


Lauda and the Gang would be a great name for a Kool and the Gang tribute act. I'm not too bad on guitar or keyboards. Anyone else keen?

[Vod]

You can blacklist someone from DT just by adding ~ in front of their name.

Obviously one person alone should not be able to blacklist anyone, so you need to have support for your action.

[LTU_btc]

I don't know why you beleive that DT blacklist would make the trust system centralized. In new DT system there's been option for excluding someone from the DT list. But i think you haven't visit the thread link yet where a combine group of untruthworthy users are trying to remove lauda from DT1 list to fullfill their future scam dream.

Whatever it is i beleive its just not an attempt to remove someone specially, its an combined attack to manipulate the whole DT system.

Blacklisting someone would make system more centralized, instead of leaving all these things for community to judge. And I don't know why how blacklist would change something. Users like cryptohunter, and other people from so called anti-DT gang already don't have chances to appear on DT. In first days when changes in trust system were made, there was some shady users on DT, but it was only matter of time until they were removed from DT by community.

[cryptohunter]

I don't know why you beleive that DT blacklist would make the trust system centralized. In new DT system there's been option for excluding someone from the DT list. But i think you haven't visit the thread link yet where a combine group of untruthworthy users are trying to remove lauda from DT1 list to fullfill their future scam dream.

Whatever it is i beleive its just not an attempt to remove someone specially, its an combined attack to manipulate the whole DT system.

Blacklisting someone would make system more centralized, instead of leaving all these things for community to judge. And I don't know why how blacklist would change something. Users like cryptohunter, and other people from so called anti-DT gang already don't have chances to appear on DT. In first days when changes in trust system were made, there was some shady users on DT, but it was only matter of time until they were removed from DT by community.

Let me walk you through it.

1. lauda is a proven liar
2. lauda is a proven trust abuser.
3. Tman is a proven trust abuser by his own admission
4. The pharmacist is a proven greedy devious sock puppet sig spamming racist troll

They are still on DT they are untrustworthy.

There is no community control there is just a few merit cyclers with 250 merit infesting the key positions of the trust system.

Stop lying and being net negative.

Want proof just ask.

[mikeywith]

There is no community control there is just a few merit cyclers with 250 merit infesting the key positions of the trust system.

as we speak and based on the last update on bpip , there are 155 members with over 250 earned merit. and over a thousand member with 10 earned merit.

i think this is somehow a decent decentralization ratio, if the majority of those members think that the current DT list is untrustworthy they can change it over night, but i don't see that happening simply because

1- the majority don't have a problem with it.
2- the majority don't give a fuck.

[TalkStar]

You can blacklist someone from DT just by adding ~ in front of their name.

Obviously one person alone should not be able to blacklist anyone, so you need to have support for your action.

Its not possible to blacklist someone by only one person but with support of others its possible. IMO thats a clear sign that new DT selection system is decentralized. I don't know why some guys are shouting here its going to be centralized again.

As a forum member i completely support the new DT selection system. There was a time when our honourable admin theymos was the all in all for DT selection. But Its a participatory selection system now where members can submit their own vote to see their favourite person on the DT list.

[Thule]

And that's exactly why they're whining about it, claiming it's unfair and blah blah blah.  

Who is whining ?Its you guys trying to defend the status quo and opening this thread.
We already started the change which can't be stopped anymore.
If you think we don't have support from some DT members you are totaly wrong.

They are currently sitting calm not because they don't support us but because its a power game against Lauda's cult group.
If one of these DT1 members would now put Lauda and his cult group into the distrust list it would instantly lead into a revange action of them and the loss of a DT status.
So they are waiting for the right moment which we are preparing for them.
Lauda knows exectly he has many enemies in DT list and thats why he fears this kind of shit so much and tries to control who gets in.The russians were a good example how furious Lauda got and to resolve the issue his main condition was and still is to put him and his puppets into the russians trust list.


The distrust list will grow quickly and people being aware of a need of 250 merits will make that people will start giving merits more often to people they like myself included who nearly never gave any merits.
Its just a matter of time

[The Cryptovator]

The distrust list will grow quickly and people being aware of a need of 250 merits will make that people will start giving merits more often to people they like myself included who nearly never gave any merits.
Its just a matter of time

Perhaps you forgot about manual blacklist.

However, I reserve the right to remove you and blacklist you from future selection if you engage in egregious and obvious abuse, or if multiple known alt accounts could be selected.

Pass on vote it doesn't mean you will be on DT1. You should be whitelist manually by theymos. Do you think theymos didn't check user history before add on DT1? I don't think so he blindly just add DT1 who have passed on vote. One more thing, if you send merit someone then your merit will exclude from him during selection, so don't try to manipulate by sending merit also.