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Author Topic: How to keep the BitCoins Safe?  (Read 513 times)
iam_aayushiJ
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February 05, 2019, 10:04:50 AM
Merited by Royse777 (2)
 #1

Hack and Hacks, every day I am waking up to the news of crypto exchanges getting hacked, recently a crypto exchanges founder died and he seem to have a hold of $190 million worth of BitCoins with him.
I have taken a pledge of never using a custodial exchanges, even if it is Binance, and not matter how much CZ says that he will keep the cryptos SAFU, I am not doing the mistake of keeping my money at stake.

I did a detailed study of what exchanges to use and what wallets to use -
 
  • Exchanges - Instant exchanges only, Changelly, ChangeNow, CoinSwitch etc.
  • Wallets - Divided into two parts - Ledger NANO S for long term investment, and keeping the funds safe, MultiCurrency wallet for trading, ex - Gaurda Wallet, Exodus Wallet

Let me know what you guys think.

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Each block is stacked on top of the previous one. Adding another block to the top makes all lower blocks more difficult to remove: there is more "weight" above each block. A transaction in a block 6 blocks deep (6 confirmations) will be very difficult to remove.
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February 05, 2019, 10:22:06 AM
 #2

Wallets - Divided into two parts - Ledger NANO S for long term investment, and keeping the funds safe, MultiCurrency wallet for trading, ex - Gaurda Wallet, Exodus Wallet

Still we have problem. How are you going to prevent this kind of death case. Every time a case like this is happening we are locking more Bitcoin. There are suppose to be 21 millions of Bitcoin but I doubt at the end ever we will have 15 millions.

There are too many Bitcoin lost so far.

satoshi
Mt. Gox
The guy lost his hard drive
and many more incidence.

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February 05, 2019, 11:08:18 AM
 #3

Wallets - Divided into two parts - Ledger NANO S for long term investment, and keeping the funds safe, MultiCurrency wallet for trading, ex - Gaurda Wallet, Exodus Wallet

Still we have problem. How are you going to prevent this kind of death case. Every time a case like this is happening we are locking more Bitcoin. There are suppose to be 21 millions of Bitcoin but I doubt at the end ever we will have 15 millions.

There are too many Bitcoin lost so far.

satoshi
Mt. Gox
The guy lost his hard drive
and many more incidence.

Mt. Gox? didn't they exit rather than "lose access forever" to the coins?

Regardless, I've heard about the news OP's mentioning. A lot of people are skeptical about the "he died" part. Only time will tell, and everyone has their eyes on the coins in the cold storage address now if they will ever move.

Maybe Quadriga can discuss with the owner's family and take over his personal computer so they can have access to his wallet? It's not because bitcoin is impenetrable that there aren't other ways to access addresses.

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February 05, 2019, 11:51:27 AM
 #4

Wallets - Divided into two parts - Ledger NANO S for long term investment, and keeping the funds safe, MultiCurrency wallet for trading, ex - Gaurda Wallet, Exodus Wallet

Still we have problem. How are you going to prevent this kind of death case. Every time a case like this is happening we are locking more Bitcoin. There are suppose to be 21 millions of Bitcoin but I doubt at the end ever we will have 15 millions.

There are too many Bitcoin lost so far.

satoshi
Mt. Gox
The guy lost his hard drive
and many more incidence.

It is the exchange's way of handling the assets poorly, how can you rely on a human being, there are multi signature wallets, use them. There are companies like CoinBase and fidelity also recently announced that they will be starting a crypto fund management company. It is sheer stupidity on exchange's side to keep hold of coins in such a poorly organised manner. Here machines are not reliable and servers are getting hacked, and companies are relying on humans. I think one should only use there own wallets, use paper wallets, ledger NANO, these days we can directly plugin Trezor and trade using many exchanges, you can read here - https://blog.coinswitch.co/coinswitch-exchange-api-integrated-into-trezor-wallet-b7042c6ea640

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February 05, 2019, 11:58:04 AM
 #5

Exchanges - Instant exchanges only, Changelly, ChangeNow, CoinSwitch etc.

No. Exchanges and "keeping bitcoins safe" are not in the same set, unless you want to try stand up comedy.
Exchanges are the place only speculators/day traders keep money at. The normal people deposit, exchange and withdraw. Exchanges were never really safe and the history shows that clearly.


Wallets - Divided into two parts - Ledger NANO S for long term investment, and keeping the funds safe, MultiCurrency wallet for trading, ex - Gaurda Wallet, Exodus Wallet

Safe keeping can be done also on paper wallets or air-gapped cold storage. That's what I would suggest for long term investment.

Multicurrency wallets are good for small amounts, for coins you don't want headaches with. And that's all.
For normal daily use I think that one of the best options is the hardware wallet (Ledger or whatever). I think that it belongs to every day use, not on the long time HODL group.

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February 05, 2019, 12:25:40 PM
 #6

Still we have problem. How are you going to prevent this kind of death case. Every time a case like this is happening we are locking more Bitcoin. There are suppose to be 21 millions of Bitcoin but I doubt at the end ever we will have 15 millions.

The dead of one owner shouldn't be a problem if you use a multi-sig wallet. You can still access the fund with the other keys (depend on your setup).

Anyway, one suggestion would be to build a smart contract which requires to be updated regularly (monthly, yearly and so on) that if it does not get updated, the funds contained whiting the address will be transferred to other address (which ideally their heir address). This way, you don't have to share your private key with somebody else but you can make sure your funds will go to your family when you died.

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February 05, 2019, 12:30:55 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #7

    • Exchanges - Instant exchanges only, Changelly, ChangeNow, CoinSwitch etc.

    If your lesson from yet another exchange going under is to keep your coins at a different kind of exchange you learned the wrong lesson Grin

    Don't keep coins on an exchange unless you are actively trading with them. Period. No ifs, no buts, no exceptions. With the exception of decentralized exchanges where you are in control of your own private keys, every exchange is a custodial exchange.


    • Wallets - Divided into two parts - Ledger NANO S for long term investment, and keeping the funds safe, MultiCurrency wallet for trading, ex - Gaurda Wallet, Exodus Wallet

    You can use hardware wallets such as the Ledger Nano or Trezor as both a hot and cold wallet. They are secure enough to serve as cold storage and convenient enough to move coins in and out at your leisure. If you hold significant funds in your hardware wallet and plan on spending coins on the go it will make sense to keep a separate mobile wallet however.


    There are too many Bitcoin lost so far.

    [...]

    Mt. Gox

    Don't worry, those coins are not lost. They simply belong to someone else now.

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    February 05, 2019, 01:08:48 PM
     #8

      • Exchanges - Instant exchanges only, Changelly, ChangeNow, CoinSwitch etc.

      If your lesson from yet another exchange going under is to keep your coins at a different kind of exchange you learned the wrong lesson Grin

      Don't keep coins on an exchange unless you are actively trading with them. Period. No ifs, no buts, no exceptions. With the exception of decentralized exchanges where you are in control of your own private keys, every exchange is a custodial exchange.


      • Wallets - Divided into two parts - Ledger NANO S for long term investment, and keeping the funds safe, MultiCurrency wallet for trading, ex - Gaurda Wallet, Exodus Wallet

      You can use hardware wallets such as the Ledger Nano or Trezor as both a hot and cold wallet. They are secure enough to serve as cold storage and convenient enough to move coins in and out at your leisure. If you hold significant funds in your hardware wallet and plan on spending coins on the go it will make sense to keep a separate mobile wallet however.


      There are too many Bitcoin lost so far.

      [...]

      Mt. Gox

      Don't worry, those coins are not lost. They simply belong to someone else now.

      The exchanges which I have mentioned are Non Custodial Exchanges, they do not store your coins with them. You send them from your wallet and receive the coins after exchanging back in your wallet only, I personally rely on such exchanges only, and https://coinswitch.co/ and is one of them.[/list]

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      February 05, 2019, 05:11:10 PM
       #9

        The exchanges which I have mentioned are Non Custodial Exchanges, they do not store your coins with them. You send them from your wallet and receive the coins after exchanging back in your wallet only, I personally rely on such exchanges only, and https://coinswitch.co/ and is one of them.[/list]

        You still send your coins to the exchange and trust they will process the exchange as you expect (not steal your coins with "KYC" as reason / cancel the transaction and send back your coins). It's different story if we're talking about DEX or/and atomic swap.

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        February 05, 2019, 05:26:17 PM
         #10

        ~ship~

        Mt. Gox? didn't they exit rather than "lose access forever" to the coins?


        Sorry Mt. Gox was a bad choice for me. Yes, you are right.

        ~snip~

        The dead of one owner shouldn't be a problem if you use a multi-sig wallet. You can still access the fund with the other keys (depend on your setup).

        Anyway, one suggestion would be to build a smart contract which requires to be updated regularly (monthly, yearly and so on) that if it does not get updated, the funds contained whiting the address will be transferred to other address (which ideally their heir address). This way, you don't have to share your private key with somebody else but you can make sure your funds will go to your family when you died.

        I am hearing this rumor that the guy did a will two months or two weeks before he died. This creates confusion that is the dead news is real or not.

        ~snip~

        There are too many Bitcoin lost so far.

        [...]

        Mt. Gox

        Don't worry, those coins are not lost. They simply belong to someone else now.

        Yh, I figured it later.

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        February 05, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
        Merited by Reid (2)
         #11

        Hack and Hacks, every day I am waking up to the news of crypto exchanges getting hacked, recently a crypto exchanges founder died and he seem to have a hold of $190 million worth of BitCoins with him.
        I have taken a pledge of never using a custodial exchanges, even if it is Binance, and not matter how much CZ says that he will keep the cryptos SAFU, I am not doing the mistake of keeping my money at stake.

        I did a detailed study of what exchanges to use and what wallets to use -
         
        • Exchanges - Instant exchanges only, Changelly, ChangeNow, CoinSwitch etc.
        • Wallets - Divided into two parts - Ledger NANO S for long term investment, and keeping the funds safe, MultiCurrency wallet for trading, ex - Gaurda Wallet, Exodus Wallet

        Let me know what you guys think.

        • Boot a live Linux iso, install electrum and make a wallet.
        • Write down (by hand) the seed words, copy the addresses: send them to you by email or print them etc.
        • Turn off the computer.

        Congratulations, You now have an impenetrable cold wallet aka. paper wallet. That paper? Make another copy by hand of those words, store them in two physically separate and secure places, such as a bank vault or such. Send all the money you want to that wallet, monitor the inputs by using any blockchain browser online.

        Now to move the funds out its almost the same:

        • Boot a live Linux iso, install electrum and restore a wallet.
        • Type back (by hand) the seed words, now move your funds to the address(es) you want
        • Turn off the computer.

        What are you waiting for? The hardest part would be figuring out how to properly put the iso into an USB thumbdrive (or DVD if you are paranoid) and make the computer boot from that.

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        February 05, 2019, 09:00:13 PM
         #12

        Hack and Hacks, every day I am waking up to the news of crypto exchanges getting hacked, recently a crypto exchanges founder died and he seem to have a hold of $190 million worth of BitCoins with him.
        I have taken a pledge of never using a custodial exchanges, even if it is Binance, and not matter how much CZ says that he will keep the cryptos SAFU, I am not doing the mistake of keeping my money at stake.

        I did a detailed study of what exchanges to use and what wallets to use -
         
        • Exchanges - Instant exchanges only, Changelly, ChangeNow, CoinSwitch etc.
        • Wallets - Divided into two parts - Ledger NANO S for long term investment, and keeping the funds safe, MultiCurrency wallet for trading, ex - Gaurda Wallet, Exodus Wallet

        Let me know what you guys think.

        • Boot a live iso, install electrum and make a wallet.
        • Write down (by hand) the seed words, copy the addresses: send them to you by email or print them etc.
        • Turn off the computer.

        Congratulations, You now have an impenetrable cold wallet aka. paper wallet. That paper? Make another copy by hand of those words, store them in two physically separate and secure places, such as a bank vault or such. Send all the money you want to that wallet, monitor the inputs by using any blockchain browser online.

        Exactly the best way to do cold storage. In fact you don't need to write seed words or private keys by hand. You can use QR codes for everything and then that's what print out.


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        Artemis3
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        February 05, 2019, 09:08:59 PM
         #13

        Exactly the best way to do cold storage. In fact you don't need to write seed words or private keys by hand. You can use QR codes for everything and then that's what print out.
        Well the point of doing it by hand is to prevent the extreme case of an already compromised device, for example the smartphone you capture the qr code with, or the computer (or printer) you are printing from; since the seed words are the most sensitive information. Of course for the public addresses anything goes.

        In theory booting from a live iso, that particular computer wouldn't be compromised, you could print right there in theory but...

        For the extra paranoid, you could boot something like Tails. The only moment you need to place that equipment online is when syncing the wallet, and you can easily tell Electrum to use Tor.

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        February 05, 2019, 11:21:45 PM
         #14

          The exchanges which I have mentioned are Non Custodial Exchanges, they do not store your coins with them. You send them from your wallet and receive the coins after exchanging back in your wallet only, I personally rely on such exchanges only, and https://coinswitch.co/ and is one of them.[/list]

          You still send your coins to the exchange and trust they will process the exchange as you expect (not steal your coins with "KYC" as reason / cancel the transaction and send back your coins). It's different story if we're talking about DEX or/and atomic swap.

          Yep, that's pretty much the same as moving coins onto an exchange, doing your trade and then immediately withdrawing your balance (ie. the way you should use any exchange, unless you plan on daytrading).

          Granted though, there's no temptation of keeping your coins on an exchange that doesn't allow you to keep funds on it, so the timeframe where you keep funds in a 3rd party's custody is limited (but still existent, unlike decentralized exchanges or atomic swaps).

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          February 05, 2019, 11:25:16 PM
           #15

          hacking really happens very often and we must be more careful in storing the bitcoins we have, and we must use multiple security to avoid hackers.

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          February 06, 2019, 04:14:18 AM
           #16

          Anything substantial definitely keeping on a hardware wallet in a safe or if you live in america or countries that provide access to a safety deposit box good idea. I don't hold any substantial amounts of crypto at the moment so don't have this problem. Holding on exchanges is definitely a risky business. I hold the majority of my future investment funds on Coinbase as they claim to be insured like banks. This is definitely one of the most protective ways of holding Bitcoin not to sure Coinbase pro Gdax have this level of insurance if at all. I would like to see more institutional organisations in the future provide the same service as Coinbase with the added knowledge your Bitcoin is insured against theft  Roll Eyes  The worry of Coinbase is that you hold a certain percentage of responsibility your passwords 2FA all it takes is a member of your household a person you are in a relationship password bio-metrics fingerprint to access your account with Coinbase will only reimburse you if the are directly attacked Roll Eyes 
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          February 06, 2019, 04:45:29 AM
           #17

          Exchange wallets? I don't trust them.

          As far as I know, ChangeNow has a scam accusations here, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4619534.0

          Changelly? possible that they can steal your coins as well - https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/8bdigt/dont_use_changelly_millions_stolen/

          You can just go here, https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet and pick the best wallet that fits your need.

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          February 06, 2019, 05:11:18 AM
           #18

          I have taken a pledge of never using a custodial exchanges
          ~
          Exchanges - Instant exchanges only, Changelly, ChangeNow, CoinSwitch etc.

          you are obviously advertising your own website here so your opinion here is not an opinion, it is an ad.
          and not to mention that these services are also risky if not riskier than the custodial exchanges such as Binance that you mentioned here. they can also scam people and take their money specially those new ones with little to no history!
          besides none of these are for "TRADING". so your statement doesn't even make sense for most people who will read it because they want to trade not to do a one time conversion between their coins.

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          February 06, 2019, 05:19:55 AM
           #19

          Hold you asset at offline wallet and keep is more safety than you keep holding on your exchange wallet or myetherwallet, you can use nano ledger hard ware wallet for saving your asset for long time and always safety your asset at the future.

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          February 06, 2019, 05:23:13 AM
           #20

          Paper wallet or nano is the best way to go!
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