Antivaccination propaganda here and there.

[Mometaskers]

For anyone who want to see what happens when people start avoiding vaccines, look at the Philippines. The current government made a media circus about certain deaths that they blame on a dengue vaccine distributed by the previous government. The vaccination rate has been going down for years and the whole scandal discouraged parents from giving their kids any vaccine.

And now there's a measles outbreak. At least 70 children dead in one hospital and hundreds more confined across the country. Ironically the death toll is larger than what was claimed for the dengue vaccine, which up until now cannot be proven. (Only in the Philippines was there an "issue" with this specific vaccine.)

The government is now considering forcing parents to vaccinate their kids before they are allowed to enroll them in school.

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[1715339998]

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[tvbcof]

For anyone who want to see what happens when people start avoiding vaccines, look at the Philippines. The current government made a media circus about certain deaths that they blame on a dengue vaccine distributed by the previous government. The vaccination rate has been going down for years and the whole scandal discouraged parents from giving their kids any vaccine.

And now there's a measles outbreak. At least 70 children dead in one hospital and hundreds more confined across the country. Ironically the death toll is larger than what was claimed for the dengue vaccine, which up until now cannot be proven. (Only in the Philippines was there an "issue" with this specific vaccine.)

The government is now considering forcing parents to vaccinate their kids before they are allowed to enroll them in school.

To bad you produced no link.  I saw a whole lot of scare-mongering in certain of the mainstream, but the details and statistics were completely valueless.  Quite contradictory as well.  This level of confusion is not possible without a deliberate attempt to obfuscate.

I will say that if people start croaking at a significantly higher rate than has been the norm from this virus it is something I've been expecting.  I have zero doubt that 'the powers that be' will be deliberately spreading lab-modified variants of certain diseases in order to try to create a panic and justify the coverage rates which they want.

The Philippines is an interesting country in that it was one of the ones specifically called out in the U.S. state department as necessitating population control for U.S. 'national security' reasons.  Subsequent to that is when the covert sterilization method using the tetanus carrier was supposed to have taken place.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Study_Memorandum_200

Filipinos would be advised to ask themselves a couple of questions:

 - Why does the West care so much about the welfare of every Filipino baby that they will spend vast sums on getting you guys injected when they are happy to kill 500,000 Iraqi babies due to sanctions?  More recently, as in right now, ever heard of Yemen?

 - Could 'US Leaders' have any influence on the 'national leaders' of your country by...oh, I dunno...like paying them?

---

I cannot do the number on the per/100,000 death rate for measles in the Philippines because of the bullshit spam 'statistics' is choking out the simple number for death by the year.*  The denominator is 100,000,000 and it's simple division if you find reliable data.

I will say that last time I was in the Philippines there was at least one fatal shooting per week in the city where I was at, and in one of the municipalities I traveled through there were two fatal vehicle accidents on that day.  You guys have some 'low hanging fruit' which will buy you a lot more lives saved than taking a chance on what the WHO is trying to pump into your bloodstream.

I also know that there are a certain class of people in your country tend to keep their kids home from school when the NGO comes by to give the kids 'vitamin shots' and 'rabies shots'.  And they are not the dirt poor.

---

Edit: (*) Note that when the 'curator' of statistics wants something to be a certain way, they can usually make it happen.  Recent case in point:  There was a 'death from kratom' recently in this country.  They guy happened to have a shotgun injury to the head which blew his brains out, but he was supposedly found to have kratom in his system.  Thus, 'death by kratom' incremented by one.  It's absolutely not the only example.  Death-by-flu undergoes similar methods when there is a propagand effort aimed at getting the flu vaccine uptake rates higher.

[BADecker]

For anyone who want to see what happens when people start avoiding vaccines, look at the Philippines. The current government made a media circus about certain deaths that they blame on a dengue vaccine distributed by the previous government. The vaccination rate has been going down for years and the whole scandal discouraged parents from giving their kids any vaccine.

And now there's a measles outbreak. At least 70 children dead in one hospital and hundreds more confined across the country. Ironically the death toll is larger than what was claimed for the dengue vaccine, which up until now cannot be proven. (Only in the Philippines was there an "issue" with this specific vaccine.)

The government is now considering forcing parents to vaccinate their kids before they are allowed to enroll them in school.

Some people think that the human race is a hundred thousand years old. But we have only had serious vaccinations for about 300 years.

Did you catch that? Either we don't need vaccinations, or science of the distant past was greater than ours.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Some people think that the human race is a hundred thousand years old. But we have only had serious vaccinations for about 300 years.

Did you catch that? Either we don't need vaccinations, or science of the distant past was greater than ours.

Yup, we've hit it on the head here. We don't need vaccinations or modern science. Let's go back to the good old days when people lived to the ripe old age of 25-30.










This kind of sheer nonsense perfectly summarizes why there is little point in debating. If the totality of the worldwide knowledge of modern medicine, the mountains of evidence, the endless facts won't convince them over their Google searches and sites like naturalnews.com,* then there is literally nothing anyone can say which will change their mind. No amount of evidence will ever be good enough for them.


*This site posts articles about how you should forego modern medicine and use things like turmeric and broccoli as a treatment for cancer, while simultaneously charging 100 bucks for a tub of turmeric pills or broccoli capsules. Seriously. I'm not making that up.

[tvbcof]

...

We've been through this before.  Diseases for which there never was a vaccine have disappeared lending STRONG evidence to the contention that live expectancy improvements is due mostly due to improvements in other areas (esp, sanitation and nutrition.)

Some vaccines, such as pertussis which create asymptomatic carriers of wild-strain, very possibly have kept some of these diseases around.

This thread is self-moderated by the kind of scammer who would pull the 'flat-earth' trick.  Probably he just hopes to divert attention and energy away from real thread then delete either this whole thing or at least the posts which don't help 'the narrative.'  Anyone who's studied this stuff knows how you pro-vaxxers roll.

[Mometaskers]

To bad you produced no link.  I saw a whole lot of scare-mongering in certain of the mainstream, but the details and statistics were completely valueless.  Quite contradictory as well.  This level of confusion is not possible without a deliberate attempt to obfuscate.

I will say that if people start croaking at a significantly higher rate than has been the norm from this virus it is something I've been expecting.  I have zero doubt that 'the powers that be' will be deliberately spreading lab-modified variants of certain diseases in order to try to create a panic and justify the coverage rates which they want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h65orFGdHyo

I'm dumbfounded with the replies, I don't even know how to react.  Guess that's enough of this thread for me. Frankly, I prefer an autistic child over a dead child.

[tvbcof]

To bad you produced no link.  I saw a whole lot of scare-mongering in certain of the mainstream, but the details and statistics were completely valueless.  Quite contradictory as well.  This level of confusion is not possible without a deliberate attempt to obfuscate.

I will say that if people start croaking at a significantly higher rate than has been the norm from this virus it is something I've been expecting.  I have zero doubt that 'the powers that be' will be deliberately spreading lab-modified variants of certain diseases in order to try to create a panic and justify the coverage rates which they want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h65orFGdHyo

I'm dumbfounded with the replies, I don't even know how to react.   Guess that's enough of this thread for me. Frankly, I prefer an autistic child over a dead child.

Just as the rest of the crap I found.  Very ambiguous information in real numbers and timeframes (but NOT the 70 dead 'in one hospital' propaganda.)

70 deaths in a population of 100,000,000 translates to a problem of 0.07 per 100,000.  This is a country where it is very uncommon to see even a bicycle helmet on a kid who is a passenger on a motorcycle.  If you are terrified of measles you've been propagandized (and not taught math very well.)

As for outbreaks, yes, we are now well into the phase where big-pharma's idea of herd immunity has interfered with natural herd immunity which used to protect the especially vulnerable nursing infants.  We would be likely to see spike in outbreaks even without artificial spreading of the disease for social engineering reason.

The idea that we can arrange a world where no kid ever gets sick and dies is pure la-la land fantasy, and if you are falling for that picture of utopia you are a fool.  Humans getting sick and sometimes dieing has been a reality of the human experience since day one and it will always be the case.  There are ways to mitigate the generalized risk and dangers of being alive (including vaccinations) but being herded into a 'solution' promoted by people who have a clear monetary and philosophical agenda is folly.

I reiterate that I think deliberately spreading diseases, and specially tailored ones, is WELL within the ethical boundaries that the globalist leaders would go in order to achieve their goals.  Of course the people with the needles in their hands would have no ill intent and no clue.  Only a handful of well positioned personnel would be necessary.

Again I'm all for you making your own choices.  If you want your kid to have their genitals mutilated I'll feel bad for the kid, but it's not my business.  If you want to take a chance that whoever cooked up the vaccines injected into your kids bloodstream has their long term health interests in mind then do as you please.  Similarly, if you trust that your political leadership will values the health of your population more than a pay-off from big pharma then I would say that you've got your head in the sand, but it's not my business.  Just don't tell me how I need to think and how I need to care for my family.

---

Edit:  Just so it doesn't get lost (assuming Balthazar doesn't pull his self-moderated censorship trick):

...
And now there's a measles outbreak. At least 70 children dead in one hospital and hundreds more confined across the country. Ironically the ...

[Balthazar]

70 deaths in a population of 100,000,000 translates to a problem of 0.07 per 100,000.

If you are terrified of measles you've been propagandized (and not taught math very well.)

That makes me come to conclusion that you're either immoral fool or immortal deity, that would explain why lives of people are just numbers for you. I'm curious to see what will you say to parents of dead child, who died after his parents rejected vaccination due to following your personal advice.

Even if we would forget about moral issues, you're making a guess that all people are equal while they're different by the definition. It's almost like trying to solve non-linear problem by using a linear method. What else to expect from another self-proclaimed math expert, same blah blah blah as heared from all specimen of your kind.

P.S. Average body temperature in a hospital may be quite normal. Even if you would count patients which are lying in morgue.

[BADecker]

70 deaths in a population of 100,000,000 translates to a problem of 0.07 per 100,000.

If you are terrified of measles you've been propagandized (and not taught math very well.)

That makes me come to conclusion that you're either immoral fool or immortal deity, that would explain why lives of people are just numbers for you. I'm curious to see what will you say to parents of dead child, who died after his parents rejected vaccination due to following your personal advice.

Even if we would forget about moral issues, you're making a guess that all people are equal while they're different by the definition. It's almost like trying to solve non-linear problem by using a linear method. What else to expect from another self-proclaimed math expert, same blah blah blah as heared from all specimen of your kind.

P.S. Average body temperature in a hospital may be quite normal. Even if you would count patients which are lying in morgue.

Same thing the Doctor says to the parents whose kid dies from the vaccination. "We're so sorry."

The moral issue to not forget about is the safety of vaccines issue. If vaccines were worth it, vaccinated kids would be protected so that "unbelievers" unvaccinated kids wouldn't hurt them. There would be freedom to vaccinate or not. Such freedom is being denied more and more, based on a bunch of BS medical non-tested lies.

[tvbcof]

...
I'm curious to see what will you say to parents of dead child, who died after his parents rejected vaccination due to following your personal advice.
...

Same thing the Doctor says to the parents whose kid dies from the vaccination. "We're so sorry."
...

Actually the Doctor is more likely to say "We have no idea what killed your kid.  Probably bad genes.  We are sure, however, that the vaccination the kid got yesterday just before collapsing had nothing to do with it."

[tvbcof]

70 deaths in a population of 100,000,000 translates to a problem of 0.07 per 100,000.

It's almost like trying to solve non-linear problem by using a linear method. What else to expect from another self-proclaimed math expert, same blah blah blah as heared from all specimen of your kind.

{x}/100,000 = 70/100,000,000 does not exactly necessitate a second-order nonlinear differential equation to solve.

[BADecker]

...
I'm curious to see what will you say to parents of dead child, who died after his parents rejected vaccination due to following your personal advice.
...

Same thing the Doctor says to the parents whose kid dies from the vaccination. "We're so sorry."
...

Actually the Doctor is more likely to say "We have no idea what killed your kid.  Probably bad genes.  We are sure, however, that the vaccination the kid got yesterday just before collapsing had nothing to do with it."

I was only trying to give the doctor the benefit of the doubt. Many doctors are wonderful people who shy away from promoting Big Pharma stupidity. These are the doctors who are often bringing vaccine lies out into the open.

But you ARE right. A doctor is a human being, and will deny that he is guilty just like any other person might.

[tvbcof]

Actually the Doctor is more likely to say "We have no idea what killed your kid.  Probably bad genes.  We are sure, however, that the vaccination the kid got yesterday just before collapsing had nothing to do with it."

I was only trying to give the doctor the benefit of the doubt. Many doctors are wonderful people who shy away from promoting Big Pharma stupidity. These are the doctors who are often bringing vaccine lies out into the open.

But you ARE right. A doctor is a human being, and will deny that he is guilty just like any other person might.

Doctors spend an extra decade taking in information and regurgitating it verbatim in order to get their license to practice.  I've not been to med school, but I'll wager that they don't generally succeed by putting their own spin on their answers on the exam.  They are not scientists, or at least don't need to be.

I mention the 'it must be your bad genes' excuse above for two reasons:

 - I've seen this excuse used by the medical establishment against my own very politically 'progressive' (and relatively high IQ) family members.  They eat it up.  Among other things it makes them feel superior insofar as they 'accept science.'  Never mind that makes no sense from an evolutionary biology standpoint.  _{(Which is at least one good reason to understand evolutionary biology my friend BADecker.  That is, to understand when and how you are being scammed by scientism-ists.)}

 - If certain populations turn out to be impacted by vaccines (and other substances) at a much lower rates and degrees than other populations, there better be an excuse.  And ideas which is 'pre-loaded' into people's minds in advance works better.

[BADecker]

Actually the Doctor is more likely to say "We have no idea what killed your kid.  Probably bad genes.  We are sure, however, that the vaccination the kid got yesterday just before collapsing had nothing to do with it."

I was only trying to give the doctor the benefit of the doubt. Many doctors are wonderful people who shy away from promoting Big Pharma stupidity. These are the doctors who are often bringing vaccine lies out into the open.

But you ARE right. A doctor is a human being, and will deny that he is guilty just like any other person might.

Doctors spend an extra decade taking in information and regurgitating it verbatim in order to get their license to practice.  I've not been to med school, but I'll wager that they don't generally succeed by putting their own spin on their answers on the exam.  They are not scientists, or at least don't need to be.

I mention the 'it must be your bad genes' excuse above for two reasons:

 - I've seen this excuse used by the medical establishment against my own very politically 'progressive' (and relatively high IQ) family members.  They eat it up.  Among other things it makes them feel superior insofar as they 'accept science.'  Never mind that makes no sense from an evolutionary biology standpoint.  _{(Which is at least one good reason to understand evolutionary biology my friend BADecker.  That is, to understand when and how you are being scammed by scientism-ists.)}

 - If certain populations turn out to be impacted by vaccines (and other substances) at a much lower rates and degrees than other populations, there better be an excuse.  And ideas which is 'pre-loaded' into people's minds in advance works better.

Evolution makes no sense from a biology standpoint. The connections in the brain of a developed person are so great, both in quantity and in interconnectivity, that there is no way that things like this could happen by evolution. Rather, the longer the elapsed time to make evolution happen, the less the odds of it ever being able to happen.

Consider your own idea about doctors taking in information. Scientists do the same. It isn't the info that scientists take in. It is how they use that info... the conclusions they come to about the info. We know what we know... science facts. We guess about many of the reasons why... science theory.

"Change your thoughts to change your genes!" - https://alchemyofhealing.com/change-your-thoughts-to-change-your-genes/. However, changing your genes in a dramatic enough way to actually change your life, is a thing that nobody knows how to do accurately. If they did, they would turn themselves into the energy of a young child in growing and living. They would live for hundreds or thousands of years rather than the few minutes we live.

Global warming is something that would get rid of the need for vaccines. Why? It would place more moisture into the air, and ultraviolet light from the sun would turn some of that moisture into H2O2. More H2O2 would gradually kill off more bacteria and viruses naturally. Illness would be cleansed from the earth. So would Big Pharma.

[BADecker]

Measles causes a natural vaccination for kids against all kinds of other diseases that medicine can't vaccinate against. And it does this without the side affects.


Note to The Powers-That-Be: Measles is NOT Ebola!

Over the past week, we have been inundated with mainstream media stories about the measles ‘epidemic’ in Washington state where 68 have been infected. Nationwide, there have been 159 cases identified through February 21, 2019. (1)

 

An outbreak is defined as three or more cases. Of measles—an illness that is self-limited and benign for nearly all who got it. Before I go on, let’s remember how measles was regarded when I was growing up. Recall that the Brady Bunch became infected with measles. I do not recall newspaper headlines blaring about the Bradys serious illness. I don’t think the health department was on the episode investigating how the Brady’s became ill. Furthermore, I don’t remember Congress investigating why all the Bradys became ill. Nor do I have any memory of state legislatures trying to take parental rights away because the Bradys developed measles. I think Mr. and Mrs. Brady would have had something to say about that one!

 

Here’s what I remember about the Bradys measles show:

[tvbcof]

Measles causes a natural vaccination for kids against all kinds of other diseases that medicine can't vaccinate against. And it does this without the side affects.

Note to The Powers-That-Be: Measles is NOT Ebola!
...

If I had a female child I would rather she go ahead and get measles than not.  This because the risk of lasting harm is almost nill, and she will then provide protection to my grandchildren in their vulnerable times when the grandchild is nursing.

If I had a male child, I would very much prefer that he gets mumps at the normal age as I did.  This because the risk is even closer to nill, and he will not get it in college when it can make him sterile.

You (BADecker) can call this 'God's design', but there are completely obvious from the perspective of classic ecology as well.  Pick your poison I suppose.

---

By the way for all you pro-vaxxers...

If I were a female who planned to get pregnant within the next few years and I had not gotten rubella as a kid, I WOULD ask the doctor to be vaccinated for it.

The reason why is that this virus really is (as best I can tell) associated with birth defects should the mother get it during the first trimester.  I would consider it worth the inherent generalized vaccine risk to an adult female.

To make the point again, it's not that vaccines cannot work.  It's pretty clear to me that they can and do provide enhanced resistance to a wild virus for a period of time.  It's equally clear that they are a risky proposition.  It certainly can be the case that the risk/reward metrics make sense.

[SaltySpitoon]

When I see these types of debates, I don't come in with an expectation that I'm going to change anyone's mind. To be honest, I don't especially care about antivaxers, because its such a small problem relative to other issues. Have your own opinions, and face your own consequences or lack thereof.

But I'm curious about finding where a lot of this information is coming from. Would anyone mind showing me their favorite source about a link between vaccines and infertility? I for the life of me cannot find any well written anti vaccine articles that have their sources listed. I'm not an expert on medical research, but I am pretty well versed on research in general. If I see a couple of peer reviewed or well written articles with actual information linking vaccines to anything other than common allergy effects, I'd be tickled.


 

[tvbcof]

When I see these types of debates, I don't come in with an expectation that I'm going to change anyone's mind. To be honest, I don't especially care about antivaxers, because its such a small problem relative to other issues. Have your own opinions, and face your own consequences or lack thereof.

But I'm curious about finding where a lot of this information is coming from. Would anyone mind showing me their favorite source about a link between vaccines and infertility? I for the life of me cannot find any well written anti vaccine articles that have their sources listed. I'm not an expert on medical research, but I am pretty well versed on research in general. If I see a couple of peer reviewed or well written articles with actual information linking vaccines to anything other than common allergy effects, I'd be tickled.

There are a ton of links in the 'Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who's sicker?' thread.  Including BADecker's original post.

A lot of the links to various studies which tie together the 'pieces of the puzzle' are on PubMed.  Surprisingly enough.  They will host the likes of Shaw et-al's research into aluminum effects in baby mice and stuff like that.

[SaltySpitoon]

There are a ton of links in the 'Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who's sicker?' thread.  Including BADecker's original post.

A lot of the links to various studies which tie together the 'pieces of the puzzle' are on PubMed.  Surprisingly enough.  They will host the likes of Shaw et-al's research into aluminum effects in baby mice and stuff like that.

I just looked through 436 articles on PubMed about Vaccine Infertility and found no relevant results, which is why I figured I'd ask here. I'll take a look at the other thread, but I'm not interested in any articles that don't follow proper research format.

*edit* link in the OP you were talking about is showing as Page not Found, but I'll keep searching.

[tvbcof]

There are a ton of links in the 'Vaccinated vs. Unvaccinated: Guess who's sicker?' thread.  Including BADecker's original post.

A lot of the links to various studies which tie together the 'pieces of the puzzle' are on PubMed.  Surprisingly enough.  They will host the likes of Shaw et-al's research into aluminum effects in baby mice and stuff like that.

I just looked through 436 articles on PubMed about Vaccine Infertility and found no relevant results, which is why I figured I'd ask here. I'll take a look at the other thread, but I'm not interested in any articles that don't follow proper research format.

*edit* link in the OP you were talking about is showing as Page not Found, but I'll keep searching.

Would you object to:

 - R&D was done to lace tetanus vaccines with hCG in order to act as an abortofacient and/or sterilent in human females?

 - The United States state department circulated a paper describing population reduction in resource rich 'least developed countries' as a high priority national security threat which needs urgent action?

 - A variety of global organizations have put a great deal of effort and money into solving what they feel to be pressing overpopulation problems?

 - The tetanus vaccination protocols used most recently in Kenya were a better match for the research described as necessary for fertility control than for the scourge of tetanus?

 -  The WHO and other organizations who funded the hCG development would feel ethically bound not to employ the creation that they funded?

Since it is well established that the technique of making women allergic to the hormone necessary to achieve and maintain pregnancy and to do so with tetanus as the carrier, what do you suppose was the overall plan to actually employ this technique?  Or do you think that they did the development work just for fun and never had any intention of using it?

---

For my part I simply find it a vastly stronger hypothesis that these people developed this sterilization technique with every intention of using it, and probably planned on using it covertly from day one.

They did use it on several occasions (with a long-ish break after being caught.)

When caught they did a full court press to cover their asses using all of the (vast) resources at their disposal since almost any normal decent person from almost any culture would find it to be an appalling crime.

I don't think that most of the people who work at the top levels of the U.S. government or the World Health Organization would find it a crime.  They are 'enlightened'.  Just managing their flocks, so to speak, and 'protecting national security' (e.g., their power structure and the efficiency of it's operation.)  But they will be completely aware of how such a program would 'go down' among the normies and it is a giant problem for them.

As a matter of fact this is not by a mile the most unethical thing these people have done.  One of the arguments they use among themselves (so I've heard) is that 'war' is an even less ethical way of culling the herds.  I cannot say that I would even disagree with that.  My main beef is that I'm unconvinced that the herds need culling badly enough to engineer either technique...but then I don't have a vested monetary and control interest in the population density issue.  Nor do I believe that there are so many people that most ecosystems are under enormous threat.