[PERMABAN APPEAL] ChiBitCTy

[yogg]

ChiBitCTy is still active in the forum he can only read threads but cannot post anything, if he was one of those plagiarizers who got permabanned he won't be using his account anymore to use the forum.

Thank you for your comment.
This isn't the only thing.
If he was able to post, there would be more business in the particular section ChiBitCTy was active.
And, he just only reads. He didn't make another account and try to go "under the radar".

Thank you minifrij and Theb for bringing this thread at the top.
Not sure if :
- This went unnoticed and if it should be "bumped" until there is a reply from a member of the staff ?
- Or just, if the people with power won't do a thing and wish not to comment further on the matter ?

[Hhampuz]

I can only echo the sentiments of many in here that ChiBitCTy deserves a second chance. Not only because he is a close friend of mine but I know how much this forum means to him, it truly does. He is a vivid collector that has helped out a lot in that section while also being a valued member. You could probably not find a single veteran there that wouldn't vouch for Ty.

We can all make mistakes when we are at our lowest and that is exactly what happened here. Ty has stressed many times that he is willing to have his signature removed indefinitely if only he could come back and that is what makes the difference for me. We have to look at the background, the value of the member in question as well as what they mean to the community as a whole.

I'd be willing to put my name on a list and if Ty were to get his account unbanned and then break a rule, any rule, you can ban my account as well as his. That's how confident and appreciative I am in him/of him.

I plead to theymos or any global mod who has the powers here. He's been unable to post or send/respond to PM's for a year now, the punishment has been served. We should show that we can forgive a crime where nobody was hurt or suffered financial loss. It's time.

[cryptohunter]

I can only echo the sentiments of many in here that ChiBitCTy deserves a second chance. Not only because he is a close friend of mine but I know how much this forum means to him, it truly does. He is a vivid collector that has helped out a lot in that section while also being a valued member. You could probably not find a single veteran there that wouldn't vouch for Ty.

We can all make mistakes when we are at our lowest and that is exactly what happened here. Ty has stressed many times that he is willing to have his signature removed indefinitely if only he could come back and that is what makes the difference for me. We have to look at the background, the value of the member in question as well as what they mean to the community as a whole.

I'd be willing to put my name on a list and if Ty were to get his account unbanned and then break a rule, any rule, you can ban my account as well as his. That's how confident and appreciative I am in him/of him.

I plead to theymos or any global mod who has the powers here. He's been unable to post or send/respond to PM's for a year now, the punishment has been served. We should show that we can forgive a crime where nobody was hurt or suffered financial loss. It's time.

I'm interested to hear suchmoons view on this case actually. Where is she? probably panting away replying to me somewhere else. I mean it was her that snitched him in right in the first place? he probably does not send mining gear up front or something.
Let's hear her views. I mean if she says it's okay now then you have a good chance of it happening I would guess.

Like i said i think just take away his sig and give him another go. A real member does not care too much about a sig anyway.

But suchmoon ...you know she is a stickler for these financially motivated ones.

Anyone who actually provides real services in crypto should be given one more chance without a sig.

I've seen others though that get less support for similar.... the old excuses bingo card and such... shows its who you know around here not what you do.

[hilariousetc]

I messaged theymos about it but didn't get a response. I even asked if the sig ban feature can be extended to Globals as I would much rather issue them instead of permanent bans, especially in cases like this. I would suggest that ChiBitCTy PM theymos and state his case and maybe a sig ban will be given instead of the perma one. Maybe collecting some vouches from established members on why he should be allowed back would help his case.

I'm interested to hear suchmoons view on this case actually. Where is she? probably panting away replying to me somewhere else. I mean it was her that snitched him in right in the first place? he probably does not send mining gear up front or something.
Let's hear her views. I mean if she says it's okay now then you have a good chance of it happening I would guess.

Like i said i think just take away his sig and give him another go. A real member does not care too much about a sig anyway.

It doesn't really matter who "stitched" them up but he has made several comments about the possibility of alternatives to plagiarism in the thread I created about the possibility of them:

Instead of removing a signature, it can contain some public shaming saying it's removed because of plagiarism and user has to earn xx more Merit before it's enabled again.

Yes.

And only apply that to users who actually have a signature to lose, e.g. Sr. and up. Lower ranks should stay permabanned. Most plagiarism is done by newbies so they wouldn't be deterred by a sig ban.

I would imagine many shitposters would simply abandon such accounts and try to buy new ones.

a.) How often the user has plagiarized (and the last copied and pasted post)

There is no feasible way to detect that.

b.) The reputation of the user and/or time spent on the forum
c.) Values that user adds to forum (Why or why not they should be allowed)

Highly subjective and would just devolve into massive flame wars.

I actually already posted a potential solution to this

Separately, there is an argument that bans for plagiarism should be delayed by a week, or 20 posts from the time a moderator discovers the infraction. The purpose of this would be too see if they will continue plagiarizing many times, or if they did something stupid on one or two posts. Someone who copies 5-10 of their next 20 posts is clearly not someone we want around, while someone who copies 1-2 ever might deserve some leniency, especially if they make generally insightful posts. This would help decide if someone will have *really* "learned their lesson" and wont make the mistake of copying content a second time.

That's not a solution. 1 of 20 is still horrible and who's gonna track the ~1000 users every week?

So I don't think a signature restriction would work at all--they'll just abandon the account.

Then it's equivalent to permaban for those users - great. But it gives the option for the few that might be genuinely remorseful.

The merit solution has problems, too, unless it's a very high amount.  We know merit gets traded and sold.

It should be a high enough amount to force most shitposters into a voluntary permaban. 50-100 should do it. If one or two buy/hack/etc enough merits to get back to spamming we'll get them next time. Now that I think about it - if someone wants to waste merits (legit or not) on this - more power to them.

I voted for keeping things as they are.

I voted for the merit option AND to keep as is. Not my fault that voting options are bipolar

[cryptohunter]

I messaged theymos about it but didn't get a response. I even asked if the sig ban feature can be extended to Globals as I would much rather issue them instead of permanent bans, especially in cases like this. I would suggest that ChiBitCTy PM theymos and state his case and maybe a sig ban will be given instead of the perma one. Maybe collecting some vouches from established members on why he should be allowed back would help his case.

I'm interested to hear suchmoons view on this case actually. Where is she? probably panting away replying to me somewhere else. I mean it was her that snitched him in right in the first place? he probably does not send mining gear up front or something.
Let's hear her views. I mean if she says it's okay now then you have a good chance of it happening I would guess.

Like i said i think just take away his sig and give him another go. A real member does not care too much about a sig anyway.

It doesn't really matter who "stitched" them up but he has made several comments about the possibility of alternatives to plagiarism in the thread I created about the possibility of them:

Instead of removing a signature, it can contain some public shaming saying it's removed because of plagiarism and user has to earn xx more Merit before it's enabled again.

Yes.

And only apply that to users who actually have a signature to lose, e.g. Sr. and up. Lower ranks should stay permabanned. Most plagiarism is done by newbies so they wouldn't be deterred by a sig ban.

I would imagine many shitposters would simply abandon such accounts and try to buy new ones.

a.) How often the user has plagiarized (and the last copied and pasted post)

There is no feasible way to detect that.

b.) The reputation of the user and/or time spent on the forum
c.) Values that user adds to forum (Why or why not they should be allowed)

Highly subjective and would just devolve into massive flame wars.

I actually already posted a potential solution to this

Separately, there is an argument that bans for plagiarism should be delayed by a week, or 20 posts from the time a moderator discovers the infraction. The purpose of this would be too see if they will continue plagiarizing many times, or if they did something stupid on one or two posts. Someone who copies 5-10 of their next 20 posts is clearly not someone we want around, while someone who copies 1-2 ever might deserve some leniency, especially if they make generally insightful posts. This would help decide if someone will have *really* "learned their lesson" and wont make the mistake of copying content a second time.

That's not a solution. 1 of 20 is still horrible and who's gonna track the ~1000 users every week?

So I don't think a signature restriction would work at all--they'll just abandon the account.

Then it's equivalent to permaban for those users - great. But it gives the option for the few that might be genuinely remorseful.

The merit solution has problems, too, unless it's a very high amount.  We know merit gets traded and sold.

It should be a high enough amount to force most shitposters into a voluntary permaban. 50-100 should do it. If one or two buy/hack/etc enough merits to get back to spamming we'll get them next time. Now that I think about it - if someone wants to waste merits (legit or not) on this - more power to them.

I voted for keeping things as they are.

I voted for the merit option AND to keep as is. Not my fault that voting options are bipolar

I said snitched not stitched but yes it is pretty much the same in her case.

Well, why not take some initiative. Create a list put those copy and pasters on it with a date and tell them they will not be allowed to have a sig for 2 years or whatever.

 If they are caught with one on. We have plenty of snitchers like suchmoon for that (give them those new shiny snitcher badges they are begging for). They then put a sig on in that time frame...boom they are banned.

There will not be a huge amount of those that can prove net positive achievements and were not financial copy and pasting so will not be a massive list.

[asche]

I guess most arguments have already been given around here, so I will just give my general opinion on this.

As has been pointed out, every case is unique and is dealt with on a case by case basis.

That being said all the "he plagiarized he won't be unbanned" are by definition not valid.

I have always found the permaban decision over plagiarism a bit too harsh for the main reason most people who actually deserve it will keep creating new accounts and escape the ban. Finding these is difficult if the user doesn't have fixed ip and isn't a complete moron.
In the end the one that are hit hardest are the ones actually accepting their punishment and NOT coming back with another account. This appears to be the case here.

I think that same as with the legal justice system in most countries positive actions should be weighted against bad ones. While I never dealt with the guy or met him, I trust yogg's judgement and I am leaning towards leniency.

Also the real justice systems allows for "early release" when someone is send to prison, say for a lifetime.
He is gone for 10 months here, and plagiarism or not, you can't deny that he is in fact part of the community.

If I had the keys, my course of action would be let him back him for time served banned, and give him a nice title like TMAN suggested. Making him wear a useful non paid signature could also be beneficial as he might become a regarded member of the forum again if given a chance.

Also, without the possibility to wear advertisement, there is no risk for recidivism.

I would love to see his case reconsidered. Everyone makes mistakes at some point. Does that mean everyone is bad? Or only the ones you catch red handed?

[wheelz1200]

I dont visit here often but in my opinion chibit should be allowed back on the forum.  Yeah he might have had a lapse in judgement with the plagiarism post but he is healthy overall for the community.  I am in other groups with him on them and has been super helpful to me.  I mainly hang in the goods section and he always goes out of his way to link me to to potential cool little oddities I otherwise would never know about.  I've chatted with him over the course of a couple years and is always cordial and polite.  I know there is a rule against it but a permanent ban for this and blatant scammers (which are rampant here) dont even get a week ban or anything seems a bit harsh.  I think he has served his time and we need more people like chibit in this forum.  My 2 cents  

Edit: if a sig ban on some level is impossible, maybe a global mod neg trust pointing this out so chi cant use sig campaigns for a period of time might be something to look at.  Once they show they aren't going to plagerise again let him back in without the red account?  Just an idea if an open invitation back isn't on the table.

[morvillz7z]

He is unbanned by the way. 

[cryptohunter]

He is unbanned by the way.  

That's good to know. Set's kind of precedent doesn't it. Since I notice his were financially motivated after looking more closely. Although clearly he is net positive for the forum being a larger scale trader. Than a couple of errors of judgement. Still that should me that anyone NOT copy and pasting for money should get back on with perhaps a sig ban too.

What were the terms?

2 year sig ban?

[morvillz7z]

It says "banned from displaying signatures until March 09, 2020, 10:24:44 PM"  I suppose theymos took into account time served already. Usually, accounts that come with a sig ban are for 2 years.

I'm probably the last person to try to speak in favor of people who have committed plagiarism, but on the other hand, I'm glad that cases are looked at individually, and judging by all the posts above, he appears to be a worthy member deserving a second chance.

[wheelz1200]

He is unbanned by the way. 

Oh I did not know that either, that is good news.  He definately is a net positive for the forum, good to hear this 

[asche]

He is unbanned by the way. 

Oh I did not know that either, that is good news.  He definately is a net positive for the forum, good to hear this 

I am happy this case has been reconsidered too.
As for the net positive, only future will tell. If not, swinging the ban hammer again remains possible anyway. Not like this was a risky move!

[DireWolfM14]

He is unbanned by the way. 

Oh I did not know that either, that is good news.  He definately is a net positive for the forum, good to hear this 

I am happy this case has been reconsidered too.
As for the net positive, only future will tell. If not, swinging the ban hammer again remains possible anyway. Not like this was a risky move!

I think the bees are convinced he's a net positive. 

No, not much risk in this move, and I'm glad he's been given a second chance.

@ChiBitCTy, welcome back.  Don't fuck it up.

[ChiBitCTy]

He is unbanned by the way.  

Oh I did not know that either, that is good news.  He definately is a net positive for the forum, good to hear this  

I am happy this case has been reconsidered too.
As for the net positive, only future will tell. If not, swinging the ban hammer again remains possible anyway. Not like this was a risky move!

I think the bees are convinced he's a net positive.  

No, not much risk in this move, and I'm glad he's been given a second chance.

@ChiBitCTy, welcome back.  Don't fuck it up.

Thank you, and I can promise you and everyone else I'll never fck up again.  That's one of the easiest promises I'll ever make.  I have many of you to thank. From those of you whom are often in Meta helping (that I don't personally know), to many of my buddies here...I can't thank you all enough. Month after month seeing people fight for me here meant a lot. For those that didn't want to see me come back, all I can say is I hope you'll see me in a different light after a while. I'm here to help, clean up, and not be the cause.

I am extremely thankful to Hilarious and Theymos for considering me for, & ultimately giving me the 2nd chance...it feels good to be back!

[Lauda]

Finally, took way too long.

[Quickseller]

It looks like the sig spammers are out in force with their “agree” posts. Perhaps they are trying to win favor with the DT powerful.

It also looks like a certain group of people think they can do whatever they want without consequences. The unbanning only reenforces that.