An obvious case of trust abuse (DT members welcome)

[deisik]

Here's the PM I sent them yesterday:



Since I didn't receive any reply and the negative feedback was not removed, I assume that there is no such intention. So we have a malicious trust abuser who is now a DT2 member. I'm not sure how it stands with other DT members, but it is definitely against the purposes of the trust system

Feels like a moment of truth to me

[1714182379]

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[mindrust]

Many months ago, I remember that I asked from this forum user to not quote me again because most of his posts were pretty low quality/spammy and I was spending unnecessary effort while answering his non-sense but still,

I don't believe he deserved a red trust rating for that.

I ignored him and that was enough to solve the problem. (he also didn't quote me again since I warned him.)

If he is breaking the rules, just report his posts and the mods will decide what to do with them. (Either delete the posts, ban him or do nothing.)

[Pffrt]

It's really sorry to see that higher ranked users even mess with the forum feedback system and the forum rules. Tagging someone for shit posting is really kind of abuse and this should only be handled by moderators only. If deisik were shit posting, it would be a fiar decision to deisik if Lucius have reported the said spam.

[LoyceV]

As for this, I am not important user on this forum, and I bet I will never be on DT1&DT2 list

You've reached DT2 2 months ago. According to BPIP, cabalism13 (who was on DT1 at that time) added you to his Trust list on the same day you left him this positive feedback:

My BTC for his PayPal, he sent first and everything went fine.

Since you didn't risk anything, I'd say your feedback should be neutral instead of positive. Adding you to DT2 around the moment you left positive feedback looks like Trust selfscratching to me. You're not the only one, Cabalism13 has put three other users who left him positive feedback on DT2 by himself.

I've been following this topic for a while, and want to add my 2 3 Satoshis:

In general:

• I don't think you should tag something that should be handled by Mods.
• Before leaving feedback, ask yourself if it makes the forum better.
• Try to make the feedback and tags you leave as accurate as possible. It's a reference for later on, and it's your "business card" as you present your judgement to the forum.

I can add a link to my topic to my quote: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system

As I consider it an obvious example of trust abuse, I ask DT members to tag this user appropriately. I'm not going to retaliate personally as I don't see a lot of sense in that

In my opinion, the proper tag for Trust abuse is a neutral tag. See me doing this here. But you've left a neutral tag already for Lucius, so well done

@Lucius: May I suggest you change this tag to neutral? Your red feedback doesn't fit theymos' description:

Delete feedback
You can delete feedback by visiting the user's Trust sumary. Any feedback left by you has a link to (Delete) it:
      
Please delete feedback when it's no longer appropriate. You can for instance replace old negative feedback by new neutral feedback when the situation justifies it. If the situation is the other way around, I suggest to leave the old neutral feedback, and add new negative feedback.

You may also want to read this post from theymos where he shares his intention for the feedback system.
@cabalism13: I'm surprised you're not mentioned in this topic yet, while you're the one who put Lucius on DT2. May I suggest to reconsider this?
@other DT1s: I don't like excluding users over small things, so in my opinion it would be best if Lucius/Cabalism13 resolve this. Too many pages have been filled for this already!

[deisik]

@cabalism13: I'm surprised you're not mentioned in this topic yet, while you're the one who put Lucius on DT2. May I suggest to reconsider this?

I sent them a PM too (this morning) asking to review the thread and reconsider their decision to add Lucius to DT2

You've reached DT2 2 months ago

I only noticed my negative trust yesterday (I mean the yellow -1 under avatar). I had DT2 disabled and opened one of my topics with another browser. I was rather surprised to see my account referred to as a scammer

[cabalism13]

...

Code:

theymos
Lauda
suchmoon
~Zz
yahoo62278
~mhanbostanci
LoyceV
asu
~Lutpin
~bob123
bL4nkcode
~digaran
Coin_trader
~IconFirm
Yatsan
Hhampuz
~blurryeyed
Theb
Darker45
crwth
inthelongrun
CryptopreneurBrainboss
GreatArkansas
sheenshane
~theyoungmillionaire
zenrol28
Maus0728
~asche
Devawnm367
shasan
DireWolfM14
1miau

I was already sleeping after my post on gambling LOL.
Edit:
My habit of adding users on my Network comes for a reason and not just because I wanted them to be on DT. I just had a smooth transaction by that time with him and considering he's generosity to my Charity, how can't I trust him...

There are just a few of you on my Network who I just trust based on my observations and for not having various transactions. In my case, I just wanted to see his feedback on my profile. As you can see whenever I got a smooth transaction I left them positive feedbacks.
Though I just hope removing him would be fine...

[deisik]

It's really sorry to see that higher ranked users even mess with the forum feedback system and the forum rules. Tagging someone for shit posting is really kind of abuse and this should only be handled by moderators only. If deisik were shit posting, it would be a fiar decision to deisik if Lucius have reported the said spam

You can check how many of my posts have been deleted by mods on bpip.org

Posts 23478 (Rank 5 )
Posts deleted by moderators: 36 (Rank: >1000 )
Posts made per post deleted: 652 (Rank: >1000 )

So it is 36 deleted posts out of 23478 posts contributed. And most of these posts were deleted in threads after someone had necroposted in them (read, the posts were deleted not on their own merits or lack thereof). So much for shitposting and spamming. But let me explain to you what happened back in 2019. The trust abuser had probably reported on me like a dozen times, and after none of my posts had been deleted, he simply lost his mind and went totally nuts and bananas

Many months ago, I remember that I asked from this forum user to not quote me again because most of his posts were pretty low quality/spammy and I was spending unnecessary effort while answering his non-sense but still

I remember every brawl with every poster I had in the past here or elsewhere

You went completely unnoticed until you showed up with that ridiculous demand, unexpected and out of the blue. Technically, I can't even say that you were posting bullshit as your posts were most certainly just like that, perfectly unimpressive and mediocre. Just saying

[marlboroza]

In my case, I just wanted to see his feedback on my profile.

I remember some users were called out because of this in the past, this is not good use of trust system...

There are just a few of you on my Network who I just trust based on my observations and for not having various transactions.

You had me in your trust network and you trusted my judgement before I called you out for trying to help scam yobit advertise here/whatever and after I tagged you, you excluded me.

Prior to that, you trusted my judgement for at least 34 weeks...

Observations  
Counter feedback is removed...

[Pffrt]

You can check how many of my posts have been deleted by mods on bpip.org

I was trying to share the main point, not accusing you of being a spammer, man.

[cabalism13]

You had me in your trust network and you trusted my judgement before I called you out for trying to help scam yobit advertise here/whatever and after I tagged you, you excluded me.
Prior to that, you trusted my judgement for at least 34 weeks...
Observations  

Yeah, excluded you so I wouldn't see my red.
After that I did just remove you. And didn't trust your judgment again, it was all a mistake and some misunderstandings. BTW it's all in the past now

In my case, I just wanted to see his feedback on my profile.

I remember some users were called out because of this in the past, this is not good use of trust system...

Code:

List the users who you trust

Like what I've said:

I just had a smooth transaction by that time with him and considering he's generosity to my Charity, how can't I trust him...

Means I did trust him.


Anyways, my last reply here, Hoping deisik would be satisfied from my action.

[deisik]

You can check how many of my posts have been deleted by mods on bpip.org

I was trying to share the main point, not accusing you of being a spammer, man

It was not intended that way either. I just saw an opportunity in case this issue comes up again as it had already happened in the past (the whole thread is def worth reading)

Anyways, my last reply here, Hoping deisik would be satisfied from my action

It is still a ticking bomb, though

[Little Mouse]

Means I did trust him.

If you trust him, which in your case you trusted him financially, you can leave him a positive feedback so that you can know whom you are dealing with and others can do business with him. On the other hand, trust with financially does not mean you should trust his feedback. Both are very different.

[LoyceV]

In my case, I just wanted to see his feedback on my profile.

I remember some users were called out because of this in the past, this is not good use of trust system...

Code:

List the users who you trust

Your quote from Trust settings is incomplete:

List the users who you trust to have good trust ratings and good trust lists

It's confusing that the forum calls both Trust lists and feedback "Trust". On my Trust list viewer, I replaced "users you Trust" by "users who's judgement you Trust" to highlight the distinction.

[deisik]

Okay, guys, this dude has again been promoted to some DT level

I have already written to LeGaulois to remove him from the trust list

Update: the trust abuser has been removed from DT2

[Lucius]

The fact is, I’m abuse system to leave you the negative feedback you definitely deserve, even though I can’t be in DT for it - but that’s the price I’m willing to pay. How low did this forum go that a troll and spammer like this could be part of any campaign at all, even if one of the most respectable members left such feedback.

Please no nonsense about negative and neutral feedback, we clarified that a long time ago.

[deisik]

...

Man, you definitely chose the wrong target. There is nothing that either you or your campaign manager can pit against me (apart from personal dislikes). So yes, your exclusion from the trust lists is well-deserved

[suchmoon]

The fact is, I’m abuse system to leave you the negative feedback you definitely deserve, even though I can’t be in DT for it - but that’s the price I’m willing to pay. How low did this forum go that a troll and spammer like this could be part of any campaign at all, even if one of the most respectable members left such feedback.

Please no nonsense about negative and neutral feedback, we clarified that a long time ago.

It's not nonsense. Negative trust for spamming is not appropriate, you're just too stubborn to admit that you made a mistake and instead of having a chance to contribute to the forum as a DT2 member you're pissing it away for the sake of grandstanding against one of thousands of spammers.

[LoyceV]

Please no nonsense about negative and neutral feedback, we clarified that a long time ago.

Even though I've posted this months ago already, I'll give it one more try:

The system is for handling trade risk, not for flagging people for good/bad posts/personalities/ideas.

That's really all there is to it. You can choose to use the Trust system correctly, be included, and your feedback will actually matter. Or you can choose to use it any way you want, no Admin is going to delete your feedback, but don't expect anyone to take it seriously.

[Lucius]

It's not nonsense. Negative trust for spamming is not appropriate, you're just too stubborn to admit that you made a mistake and instead of having a chance to contribute to the forum as a DT2 member you're pissing it away for the sake of grandstanding against one of thousands of spammers.

Of course, it is not appropriate and I have admitted it many times. The system has been shown to work on my example, but why doesn't it work on the example of many other DT members who leave similar negative feedbacks and have no problems because of it? As in real life, rules exist but are applied differently to different people.

That's really all there is to it. You can choose to use the Trust system correctly, be included, and your feedback will actually matter. Or you can choose to use it any way you want, no Admin is going to delete your feedback, but don't expect anyone to take it seriously.

Since you are doing various forum analyzes and statistics, here is a challenge for you to check all DT1/2 members and their inappropriate feedbacks, due to which only a few were publicly named, but without any consequences.

[LoyceV]

a challenge for you to check all DT1/2 members and their inappropriate feedbacks, due to which only a few were publicly named, but without any consequences.

There's a lot of those, partially because theymos changed the feedback descriptions when Flags were introduced and older feedback doesn't always fit the current description. And partially because many people leave feedback I don't agree with. I can't automate this, and I don't want to manually check tens of thousands of feedbacks. But if one pops up (like in your case), I share my opinion. Sometimes people change their mind, sometimes they don't.
Note that I haven't excluded (or included) you over this. I don't agree with all feedbacks for most people, so my Trust list is only based on the majority of their feedback.