THEY SAY HE'S TROLLIN THEY HATIN ..................This is a serious matter !!!!

[cryptohunter]

Local rules - no accounts with less than 150 activity, no making it personal. This discussion is for creating sensible general rules that apply to ALL persons equally.


Let us not focus on any one person, but rather a general rule that I think we need to establish here. Since the trolling accusation is often weaponized to silence people or provide excuse to avoid tackling issues we may just be ashamed of.


If we are to "constantly" accuse a person/s of trolling or being a troll then should we not be required to present evidence to substantiate  this claim?  It is quite a serious accusation after all.

I mean if the accused on numerous occasions insists they are NOT trolling, that their information is correct and true, and challenges the accuser to provide evidence to substantiate their claim then surely the onus is on the accuser to present the OBVIOUSLY FALSE NONSENSE that they the accused  are continually said to be promulgating ?? I mean surely it must be proven false or incorrect ??

Surely if the accuser can NOT provide proof of OBVIOUSLY FALSE NONSENSE then they themselves are TROLLING by continually presenting false information/accusations regarding that person being a troll. When they have constantly failed to substantiate their "claims".

You can not simply call someone a troll because you want them to stop saying things that you do not like or that you feel are true but casts you in an unfavourable light. That is just an unfair weapon to crush free speech/the truth.

I mean if the person accused of being nothing other than a troll challenges his accusers to present even one example of his obvious false nonsense and they can not.... then surely they must be careful not to meet the criteria of becoming trolls themselves??

I think that a person should be able to challenge his accusers in a rep thread,  and if they can not present evidence of habitual posting false information then they must be warned about making this same accusation again.

Let's start allowing the truth to shine through here on BCT again.




The rules on this board say...

"If a user is habitually posting obviously false nonsense ("obviously false nonsense" to an outsider, NOT to someone who follows or is involved in the discussion) just to stir up trouble, then it's considered trolling, which is prohibited. Such cases should be thoroughly documented in the report though (There are tons of reports that just say "trolling", but moderators don't have time to look through each user's post)."


Apologies for my numerous posts today but unexpected poor weather provided me with opportunities that I had to capitalise on. Sadly I will be unable to sustain this level of content creation.

[1714775036]

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[YOSHIE]

I don't think that this one-purpose Forum for life is not the real world, trolls.
If you continue like this, you are also said to be one of the trolls.

That is to say: people who start a fight or annoyance at the forum, DT, to divert and sow disputes by posting inflammatory and aggressive content, forums, outside the community, with the aim of provoking the reader to display an emotional response, whether you make this fortroll entertainment or certain benefits for you.

the trolling that you mean is: "troll" means you "people who destroy the bitcointalk forum with the aim where the main character posts harass people online and try to infiltrate their circles by posting dirty and negative comments.

Sorry, a little emotional.

[cryptohunter]

I don't think that this one-purpose Forum for life is not the real world, trolls.
If you continue like this, you are also said to be one of the trolls.

That is to say: people who start a fight or annoyance at the forum, DT, to divert and sow disputes by posting inflammatory and aggressive content, forums, outside the community, with the aim of provoking the reader to display an emotional response, whether you make this fortroll entertainment or certain benefits for you.

the trolling that you mean is: "troll" means you "people who destroy the bitcointalk forum with the aim where the main character posts harass people online and try to infiltrate their circles by posting dirty and negative comments.

Sorry, a little emotional.

Emotion is acceptable if you feel strongly.

However READ the local rules. They specifically say this is not to be made personal. Or keep it as broad as possible anyway. Don't go straight into personal attacks I mean I am sure this thread will descend into that eventually but let's hold out past the first post.

Better if you bring one point at a time and bring an example because it looks nothing like trolling. You seem to be referring to general forum debates and disagreements. You need to separate the truth from the bullshit before you can tell whom if any of the different factions are trolling or just fighting for their respective views that they actually believe in. Aggression, emotion, harassment are relative terms (not essentially negative and actually quite net positive in some instances) and very context dependent. This is why any accusation of TROLLING needs to be examined closely.

One persons "destroy" bitcointalk could be another persons "save" bitcointalk from becoming a useless broken down echo chamber.

The best way to rid yourself of the negative characters that you seem to be trying to describe is to force them into debates and dismantle their arguments and crush their false claims. Once their false claims are crushed beyond doubt then if they keep promulgating these views or ideas that could well be trolling. Or you can just reference the topic where those views or ideas were demonstrated to be incorrect and false.

Since you arrived here very recently your views although genuine to you, could be net negative with regard to creating an optimal forum environment for crypto to thrive  if analysed by someone smarter or with more experience. That is what debate is for.

I mean to say that which may you consider net negative could actually be net positive or the other way around. Only a debate will eventually reveal which it is.










 

[Flying Hellfish]

Sadly I will be unable to sustain this level of content creation.

You are likely the only one that is sad about this... The rest of us, not so sad!

[cryptohunter]

Sadly I will be unable to sustain this level of content creation.

You are likely the only one that is sad about this... The rest of us, not so sad!

No trolling in this thread please. Irony like this is okay, but not first thing in the morning after the heavy night (of laughter) before.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Sadly I will be unable to sustain this level of content creation.

You are likely the only one that is sad about this... The rest of us, not so sad!

That's code for saying he's constipated, and I would urge him not to consider a laxative but rather seek out another forum to troll.

But I don't take those words of his seriously, though.  How many times have trolls and assorted morons said they're going to leave bitcointalk only to stick around and continue to stink up the place?  Hopefully scunter sticks to his word in this case.

[cryptohunter]

Sadly I will be unable to sustain this level of content creation.

You are likely the only one that is sad about this... The rest of us, not so sad!

That's code for saying he's constipated, and I would urge him not to consider a laxative but rather seek out another forum to troll.

But I don't take those words of his seriously, though.  How many times have trolls and assorted morons said they're going to leave bitcointalk only to stick around and continue to stink up the place?  Hopefully scunter sticks to his word in this case.

Huge Black Woman aka the pharmacist the sneaky greedy racist trolling sig puppet spammer appears to break my local rules by making it personal straight away.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1702409.msg17808231#msg17808231

I wonder how long this imbecile will hang around to help me.

Oh well, since we have a trolling professional here (the pharmacist) to help us debate we shouldn't complain too much.

Now I will use his dumb ass to make an example of what I am talking about here.

HBW can you please present the posts where you claim I am trolling so we can work through them together now.

Can you switch character to Huge Black Woman just for this thread so we can double down on the hilarity.

Also can you bring some of your greatest posts demonstrating original thought provoking insights that made a huge difference here .... just so we can really see the contrast between a troll and a great post deserving of a highly paid sig campaign SPAM right under it.

[Foxpup]

Now I will use his dumb ass to make an example of what I am talking about here.

I think we'd all prefer that you not use anyone's asses, dumb or not. What is it with you and asses, anyway?

HBW can you please present the posts where you claim I am trolling so we can work through them together now.

Wouldn't it be easier to just present the posts where you aren't trolling?

Can you switch character to Huge Black Woman just for this thread so we can double down on the hilarity.

What, this Little Red Vixen's not good enough for you?

[YOSHIE]

One persons "destroy" bitcointalk could be another persons "save" bitcointalk from becoming a useless broken down echo chamber.

Yes, I understand what you are facing right now, but all that must be, ask yourself? is this disappointment triggered by a negative experience in the past and I understand for now you are angry or upset, but don't get caught up in this situation.

Don't accept this something that you can't change?

Feeling hurt is not an option, but experiencing suffering is a choice, by saying "life is unfair" or "I don't deserve to experience this", you reject the reality that is happening and deny the truth you must accept.

You will have difficulty understanding the other person's point of view if you are angry.
However, you can overcome problems and relieve heartache by sharing sympathy. You will avoid feeling disappointed with more sympathy. Remember that you can also make mistakes and still want to be accepted. everyone wants to be accepted, even though they face problems.

Revenge, anger, emotion, and disappointment just as you drink poison and expect others to suffer, when in fact, you are poisoning yourself.
Even though you feel you are on the right side and on the other hand there are people who have hurt you.
To let go of disappointment is always the best solution. if you are ready to free yourself from the shackles of disappointment, remember I do not look at you something negative, war is not a good thing, a decision 100% depends on you in taking a policy, the Forum continues to run and remain victorious, even though we are lost in this world.

[cryptohunter]

One persons "destroy" bitcointalk could be another persons "save" bitcointalk from becoming a useless broken down echo chamber.

Yes, I understand what you are facing right now, but all that must be, ask yourself? is this disappointment triggered by a negative experience in the past and I understand for now you are angry or upset, but don't get caught up in this situation.

Don't accept this something that you can't change?

Feeling hurt is not an option, but experiencing suffering is a choice, by saying "life is unfair" or "I don't deserve to experience this", you reject the reality that is happening and deny the truth you must accept.

You will have difficulty understanding the other person's point of view if you are angry.
However, you can overcome problems and relieve heartache by sharing sympathy. You will avoid feeling disappointed with more sympathy. Remember that you can also make mistakes and still want to be accepted. everyone wants to be accepted, even though they face problems.

Revenge, anger, emotion, and disappointment just as you drink poison and expect others to suffer, when in fact, you are poisoning yourself.
Even though you feel you are on the right side and on the other hand there are people who have hurt you.
To let go of disappointment is always the best solution. if you are ready to free yourself from the shackles of disappointment, remember I do not look at you something negative, war is not a good thing, a decision 100% depends on you in taking a policy, the Forum continues to run and remain victorious, even though we are lost in this world.

Well that is all interesting and great advice. In this case though it is not applicable to me.

I do not feel hurt. These people have been scamming and promoting scams since they joined. To be attacked by them is not hurtful, it is a pleasant and gratifying experience. It demonstrates you clearly stand in contrast to them. I have crushed them before, brought their lies and scams to the point of offering to redeem themselves and compensate those they scammed. I have no interest in acceptance by them.

Acceptance by bad eggs and their supporters would indicate capitulation on my part. Disgusting and weak.  

There is no middle ground. There is a transparent and fair system for all or there is a corrupt and broken system gamed and abused by self serving scum.

You do not as yet realise the implications for this board if you allow freedom of speech to become manipulated by a small corrupt and provably untrustworthy gang.

This though is ALL off topic and too personal for this thread.

Let us get back on topic. Trolling and those making trolling accusations.

Lets analyse what we observe so far in this thread.


1. the pharmacist aka Huge Black Woman - the sneaky greedy racist trolling sock puppet sig spammer making TROLLING accusations against me. However, he fails to produce any examples of this? sounds like a false accusation to me? actually since I have already challenged him MANY times to substantiate and debate with me his claims then I now say that this is tantamount to trolling himself. We know huge black woman is a master sig spamming racist troll so perhaps the pharmacist is unable to control his trolling ways.

2. fox poop appears (who told me he can not give a fck about my posts and yet appears on my threads and seems to give many fcks) and not only fails to produce the posts he claims are stupid, but now will not even help his pal Huge Black Woman to locate and present my  "trolling" posts to analyse and debate.

Why?? because these dumb fools make false accusations over and over again. They try to weaponize trolling and then cast that umbrella term over posts that contain observable events and factual accounts that they wish to hide and bury in the past that demonstrate they are net negative garbage.

Trolling.... proliferating false information continuously and knowingly is trolling. These are your trolls. One caught red handed trolling for btc dust under a sock puppet account, the other busted slathering merits over all his pals accounts seconds between each allocated bunch of cycled merit junk.

I need no acceptance by these types.

TROLLING is the topic here, and those accusing people of trolling over and over without producing evidence even when challenged are the trolls here.

[Foxpup]

fox poop appears (who told me he can not give a fck about my posts and yet appears on my threads and seems to give many fcks) and not only fails to produce the posts he claims are stupid, but now will not even help his pal Huge Black Woman to locate and present my  "trolling" posts to analyse and debate.

I didn't say I can't give a fuck, I said I can't give enough fucks. I naturally have a few fucks available to those who are interested. But I'm afraid The Pharamacist and I combined don't have the 13,577 fucks it would take to go through all of your posts. We just don't have that many fucks between us.

And stop calling me "he" unless I'm no longer a vile vixen. (NB: Ceasing to be a vixen may adversely affect the quality of my fucks.)

[twiki]

The problem is that most of the responses to bitcointalk are shitty messages. And the rest of the people who are now interested in the forum may not have activity 150.

[cryptohunter]

fox poop appears (who told me he can not give a fck about my posts and yet appears on my threads and seems to give many fcks) and not only fails to produce the posts he claims are stupid, but now will not even help his pal Huge Black Woman to locate and present my  "trolling" posts to analyse and debate.

I didn't say I can't give a fuck, I said I can't give enough fucks. I naturally have a few fucks available to those who are interested. But I'm afraid The Pharamacist and I combined don't have the 13,577 fucks it would take to go through all of your posts. We just don't have that many fucks between us.

And stop calling me "he" unless I'm no longer a vile vixen. (NB: Ceasing to be a vixen may adversely affect the quality of my fucks.)

LOL you're becoming one of my fav people here. You take a little more breaking down than suchmoron mostly because you're a little more sexy and I take a little more mercy on you... but still it's fun watching you cast doubt upon your own (false) accusations.

So you admit that IF there are any trolling or stupid posts you may need to go through the entire 13.5k of them. So not that many examples then hahaha. POW  

So you can say from your limited experience in reading my posts ( a lot and giving lots of fucks about them) since I came to the weird but fun world of meta, that I produce stupid posts and  trolling posts. But together you and that other dumbo the pharmacist can't find them? hahahahahah

You could ask Huge Black Woman to help you both ....perhaps all 3 of you together will be able to produce some false and incorrect information that I am proliferating after it has been demonstrated to be ....well.... false or incorrect. I can't wait to start debating these posts with you two.
three

So still more trolling from fox pup. This is like 'trolling trolling'. Trolling people about their non existent trolling. I like it.

On a serious note and I mean this. Thanks guys this forum had lost all of its fun until I found you. I honestly mean it. I am missing tennis matches, dates, massages... such is the entertainment you all provide me.




 

The problem is that most of the responses to bitcointalk are shitty messages. And the rest of the people who are now interested in the forum may not have activity 150.

You may post here if you like.

Local rules only work if you are a DT or DT felcher anyway. Anyone can freely observe that the DT's do not stick to the local rules at all they just do what they like as always.

[SaltySpitoon]

You can't provide proof that someone is trolling. Its just a really shitty and overly broad term for people you don't like that disagree with you in most cases. Just because someone intentionally does or says something to make another person angry, that doesn't automatically make them a troll. Posting factual information with the intention of annoying someone is still "trolling", it doesn't require any fake information. So lets say I really hate lemons (sorry I've gotta stick with the lemon examples) and any chance you get, you decide to slip a fact about lemons into your posts because you know it'll annoy me, I might call you a troll because of that. You didn't do anything wrong, and no one else will get it, but just because you'd be irritating me, I'd call you a troll.

I personally find the term to be absolutely useless because it typically only means something to one person or a small group of people. Luckily, the bad cases of "trolling" typically include spamming and harassment, ARE fairly easy to define and is against the rules. Anything short of that isn't a serious matter, and can be resolved with the ignore button.

[cryptohunter]

You can't provide proof that someone is trolling. Its just a really shitty and overly broad term for people you don't like that disagree with you in most cases. Just because someone intentionally does or says something to make another person angry, that doesn't automatically make them a troll. Posting factual information with the intention of annoying someone is still "trolling", it doesn't require any fake information. So lets say I really hate lemons (sorry I've gotta stick with the lemon examples) and any chance you get, you decide to slip a fact about lemons into your posts because you know it'll annoy me, I might call you a troll because of that. You didn't do anything wrong, and no one else will get it, but just because you'd be irritating me, I'd call you a troll.

I personally find the term to be absolutely useless because it typically only means something to one person or a small group of people. Luckily, the bad cases of "trolling" typically include spamming and harassment, ARE fairly easy to define and is against the rules. Anything short of that isn't a serious matter, and can be resolved with the ignore button.

Well I agree with you in part. Trolling (not the guidelines in the rules here) but generally is a useless term because as you say it means something different to everyone depending on their POV.

I mean I could say you were trolling me telling me when you said that openly demonstrating that I loved lemons is reason enough to give me red trust. I mean that is what most people may consider a troll. This now would per board rules be a troll. Since red trust is intended to be for scamming or strongly likely to scam.

This is why the rules drill down more and for the sake of this board and say it is more of a case of deliberate and wilful spreading of obviously fake or incorrect information.  Again to me this is not as I understood trolling before but I find it to be far more useful for a forum than just a worthless different-for-each-individual term..

Spamming is not trolling to me. Spamming is certainly more defined and usually I would say linked to financial gain more than trolling. Although I guess there is crossover there.

Harassment is a BIG debate in itself and certainly not tied to trolling.

[SaltySpitoon]

Well I agree with you in part. Trolling (not the guidelines in the rules here) but generally is a useless term because as you say it means something different to everyone depending on their POV.

I mean I could say you were trolling me telling me when you said that openly demonstrating that I loved lemons is reason enough to give me red trust. I mean that is what most people may consider a troll. This now would per board rules be a troll. Since red trust is intended to be for scamming or strongly likely to scam.

This is why the rules drill down more and for the sake of this board and say it is more of a case of deliberate and wilful spreading of obviously fake or incorrect information.  Again to me this is not as I understood trolling before but I find it to be far more useful for a forum than just a worthless different-for-each-individual term..

Spamming is not trolling to me. Spamming is certainly more defined and usually I would say linked to financial gain more than trolling. Although I guess there is crossover there.

Harassment is a BIG debate in itself and certainly not tied to trolling.

I'll avoid dragging this off topic by just addressing two differences of opinion that we have, and simply stating that because of them, our viewpoints are different. First, I disagree that red trust is intended to be solely for scamming or strongly likely to scam. I am of the opinion that the reason there aren't explicit rules for what you can and can't leave for feedback, is because needs of the users here evolve. For example, plagiarism spam is a fairly new thing, if not for the fact that it directly opposed moderation goals here, it may have been left alone in the same way that account selling is. If plagiarism spam was allowed by the rules, perhaps it would warrant negative feedback. These are decisions that individuals decide to make, and the community can either choose to agree with them or ignore them.

We also have a major difference of opinion regarding what is considered incorrect information, and willful spreading of it. Saying, I intend to buy 10,000 BTC at $10,000 each tomorrow, so buy now! If I have no intention of doing so, is about the extent of what I'd consider intentionally spreading fake information (typically for personal gain). Anything that is processed by the human brain is skewed by previous experiences, personal beliefs, whatever, and needs some sort of special consideration when you say its incorrect or willful lying. I draw these stupid analogies like with the lemons for the sake of trying to bridge as many misunderstandings as possible. Lets say I'm arguing with someone that the sky is blue, and they think its orange. They may have never seen a blue sky before, might be color blind, taught color names incorrectly, or are misunderstanding what I intended the question to mean, perhaps they think I'm talking about the evening sky. People are willing to argue over whether the earth is flat or not, if you get too involved in it, you'll waste way too much time fighting with people who really don't matter in your life.

Related to the topic at hand, these are the reasons that I think all but the most extreme cases of "trolling" don't really matter. If someone's behavior is unreasonably obstructing everyone else, they are politely asked to leave by the moderation staff by means of a ban message. Anyone that falls into any other category should be handled with an ignore button. If a person is on everyone else's ignore list, they probably should, and probably will be asked to leave. Not to make any of this personal, as I don't care about any spats you've had with other members. I perceive the motivation of your topics on the matter as having to do with them, which is why I mention it at all. You or the other parties are not currently obstructing the forum for all other uses, you are just annoying each other. That probably means that neither parties has to be asked to leave for trolling, spreading fake information, or whatever. Just use the ignore function and carry on.

The only reason I respond to topics like this at all, is because you are asking for a change in moderation policy, and I'm arguing that we need as few policies based on uncertain terms as possible. Interpersonal relationships are best not monitored by the forum staff. I'm probably biased here, but I think the rules in place are sufficient, and the tools provided to forum users are almost flexible enough to deal with any situation that doesn't require moderator action. If you are able to even understand my reasoning for the points we disagree on, even if you do disagree, that lends to my point that we'd be asking for new rules based on things that not everyone is in agreement over.



It took me about 6 minutes to write this post, I write fast and any post I spend more than 20 seconds on ends up with multiple paragraphs, check the TLDR if you don't want to read it.

TLDR: We have a difference of opinion on the qualifications for what is required to be "trolling". I disagree with asking for more rules in general for a problem that can be solved with the use of the ignore button and interpersonal skills. We've got a lot of people here, some you won't mesh with. Who cares, use the ignore button. Moderators will get the nuisances.

[DireWolfM14]

To troll or not to troll, that is the question.
To post, and not sleep, is that all?
To wake, to post, to sleep, and to make merry
the dreams of green trust DT.
The arguments of merit fall by the way side
upon reading the musings of Lady Lauda.
Oh, and such a moon to ponder while
finding myself in this way.
Scorned by the campaign managers
who see my trust as blood on the hands.
Cursed by the poor as they must flip burgers
to feed their children.
Yet I endure the onslaught
and continue to expose the tyrants
and the judgments they make.
To grunt and sweat under this weary life
without the help of anyone but Thule.
For what sake, may I ask?
For a dream of something after bitcointalk?
It puzzles the brain and confounds the sense.
This which makes us bear the burden.
Alas, alas, I continue to battle alone.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Who cares, use the ignore button. Moderators will get the nuisances.

Agree with most of what you said, but OP is one of the nuisances, and he's not about to use the ignore button when that would deprive him of fuel for his trolling.  He's not genuinely concerned about any real issues; he's simply making much ado about nothing, or at least exaggerating problems that certainly could be solved for him by putting some people on ignore.  OP likes to write, to rant, to get attention.

<snip funny pome>

LOL.

[suchmoon]

You can replace me with "fox poop" in the poem. That's the new favorite chew toy.

I can't really be bothered to engage aside from an occasional meme, it's just too boring to keep waiting for all the proofs of all those crimes I have allegedly committed, in buses and whatnot.

[DireWolfM14]

You can replace me with "fox poop" in the poem. That's the new favorite chew toy.

Well in that case, fox poop has wolf boy's sympathy.  I decided "Lady Lauda" has a nice ring to it.