Comparison of Offchain Solutions for Crypto Coins

[Wind_FURY]

Newbies, I encourage you to listen to Khaos77.

Learn.

FTFY,

You know I provide links, so anyone reading my posts should also read the links.
This will help them form their own opinion, which for those with an IQ>70 will come to the same conclusion I did.
(Also they can use google to confirm, it is called research, if they so choose.)
Those like windfury with an IQ<70 , won't understand anything, don't research anything, and will continue to rail against logical thought.
Sad , but as the old saying goes , you can't fix stupid.

No you can't, and I know I'm the most stupid in the forum, and you're the smartest. But nothing in the links you provide, with all its techno-babble, proves that there are "IOU pegged promises to pay tokens" in Lightning.

But keep trying, I'm encouraging all newbies to listen to you, for their special Bitcoin learning process.

[1714708306]

1714708306

[Khaos77]

Newbies, I encourage you to listen to Khaos77.

Learn.

FTFY,

You know I provide links, so anyone reading my posts should also read the links.
This will help them form their own opinion, which for those with an IQ>70 will come to the same conclusion I did.
(Also they can use google to confirm, it is called research, if they so choose.)
Those like windfury with an IQ<70 , won't understand anything, don't research anything, and will continue to rail against logical thought.
Sad , but as the old saying goes , you can't fix stupid.

No you can't, and I know I'm the most stupid in the forum, and you're the smartest. But nothing in the links you provide, with all its techno-babble, proves that there are "IOU pegged promises to pay tokens" in Lightning.

No , not  the smartest, Most likely in the Top 30 however. 
You don't have to be Einstein to see the truth.

IOU are Promises/contracts to Pay,
All LN does is make promises/contracts to pay, and at the end , hopefully allow those promises to be redeem onchain.

If that one simple thing is over your head , then so be it.

But for you to continue to rail against what is completely apparent, shows a psychosis that is borderline requiring an institution.
Where they give you a coat that ties in the back.   

[hv_]

Newbies, I encourage you to listen to Khaos77.

Learn.

FTFY,

You know I provide links, so anyone reading my posts should also read the links.
This will help them form their own opinion, which for those with an IQ>70 will come to the same conclusion I did.
(Also they can use google to confirm, it is called research, if they so choose.)
Those like windfury with an IQ<70 , won't understand anything, don't research anything, and will continue to rail against logical thought.
Sad , but as the old saying goes , you can't fix stupid.

No you can't, and I know I'm the most stupid in the forum, and you're the smartest. But nothing in the links you provide, with all its techno-babble, proves that there are "IOU pegged promises to pay tokens" in Lightning.

No , not  the smartest, Most likely in the Top 30 however.  
You don't have to be Einstein to see the truth.

IOU are Promises/contracts to Pay,
All LN does is make promises/contracts to pay, and at the end , hopefully allow those promises to be redeem onchain.

If that one simple thing is over your head , then so be it.

But for you to continue to rail against what is completely apparent, shows a psychosis that is borderline requiring an institution.
Where they give you a coat that ties in the back.    

So finally Bitcoin is not sth easy to get. It touches so many fields - mostly now as a financial instrument / commodity

Ppl who want to do / dev things with that need to pull all that knowledge make their due dilligence (for their own safety!) BEFORE wanna play, dev , code - whatever 'permissionless' out of nothing

There needs to be a way broader consensus about    Bitcoin and its minimum features / code  - no only with devs and miners. That didn't work well.

If now so many need to get to a global consensus - the intersection is very thin -> can only end up with simplest P2P eCash onchain

 

[xWolfx]

So finally Bitcoin is not sth easy to get. It touches so many fields - mostly now as a financial instrument / commodity

Ppl who want to do / dev things with that need to pull all that knowledge make their due dilligence (for their own safety!) BEFORE wanna play, dev , code - whatever 'permissionless' out of nothing

There needs to be a way broader consensus about    Bitcoin and its minimum features / code  - no only with devs and miners. That didn't work well.

If now so many need to get to a global consensus - the intersection is very thin -> can only end up with simplest P2P eCash onchain

 

Yeah and in the future it will be even harder to get. And that will be a good thing, at least from mining and of course you will get a lot less from offering services since it's value will be a lot higher probably.

I agree that a much broader consensus should exist before making really important changes, otherwise Bitcoin will be like a centralized institution, where only some will have a voice and that should of course be avoided.

[hv_]

So finally Bitcoin is not sth easy to get. It touches so many fields - mostly now as a financial instrument / commodity

Ppl who want to do / dev things with that need to pull all that knowledge make their due dilligence (for their own safety!) BEFORE wanna play, dev , code - whatever 'permissionless' out of nothing

There needs to be a way broader consensus about    Bitcoin and its minimum features / code  - no only with devs and miners. That didn't work well.

If now so many need to get to a global consensus - the intersection is very thin -> can only end up with simplest P2P eCash onchain

 

Yeah and in the future it will be even harder to get. And that will be a good thing, at least from mining and of course you will get a lot less from offering services since it's value will be a lot higher probably.

I agree that a much broader consensus should exist before making really important changes, otherwise Bitcoin will be like a centralized institution, where only some will have a voice and that should of course be avoided.

We can watch on coinmarketcap where the Feature and sepculation mania has driven the Bitcoin market section - > into redicules or scam zoones.

Better now clamp down to what it should do minimal, scalable, transparent, stable and scam free - here most of ppl and industries will get onboard with

Any offchain appl can be predictable build on top of that - sure and recommended imo -  these will not be permissionless but rather come as corporate Services - good!

[Wind_FURY]

Newbies, I encourage you to listen to Khaos77.

Learn.

FTFY,

You know I provide links, so anyone reading my posts should also read the links.
This will help them form their own opinion, which for those with an IQ>70 will come to the same conclusion I did.
(Also they can use google to confirm, it is called research, if they so choose.)
Those like windfury with an IQ<70 , won't understand anything, don't research anything, and will continue to rail against logical thought.
Sad , but as the old saying goes , you can't fix stupid.

No you can't, and I know I'm the most stupid in the forum, and you're the smartest. But nothing in the links you provide, with all its techno-babble, proves that there are "IOU pegged promises to pay tokens" in Lightning.

No , not  the smartest, Most likely in the Top 30 however.  
You don't have to be Einstein to see the truth.

IOU are Promises/contracts to Pay,
All LN does is make promises/contracts to pay, and at the end , hopefully allow those promises to be redeem onchain.

If that one simple thing is over your head , then so be it.

But for you to continue to rail against what is completely apparent, shows a psychosis that is borderline requiring an institution.
Where they give you a coat that ties in the back.    

So finally Bitcoin is not sth easy to get. It touches so many fields - mostly now as a financial instrument / commodity

This is true. There's some people in the community that are so lost that they readily believe some Australian guy is Satoshi Nakamoto because he said he is, after credible people in the community were saying that he's not.

[hv_]

Newbies, I encourage you to listen to Khaos77.

Learn.

FTFY,

You know I provide links, so anyone reading my posts should also read the links.
This will help them form their own opinion, which for those with an IQ>70 will come to the same conclusion I did.
(Also they can use google to confirm, it is called research, if they so choose.)
Those like windfury with an IQ<70 , won't understand anything, don't research anything, and will continue to rail against logical thought.
Sad , but as the old saying goes , you can't fix stupid.

No you can't, and I know I'm the most stupid in the forum, and you're the smartest. But nothing in the links you provide, with all its techno-babble, proves that there are "IOU pegged promises to pay tokens" in Lightning.

No , not  the smartest, Most likely in the Top 30 however.  
You don't have to be Einstein to see the truth.

IOU are Promises/contracts to Pay,
All LN does is make promises/contracts to pay, and at the end , hopefully allow those promises to be redeem onchain.

If that one simple thing is over your head , then so be it.

But for you to continue to rail against what is completely apparent, shows a psychosis that is borderline requiring an institution.
Where they give you a coat that ties in the back.    

So finally Bitcoin is not sth easy to get. It touches so many fields - mostly now as a financial instrument / commodity

This is true. There's some people in the community that are so lost that they readily believe some Australian guy is Satoshi Nakamoto because he said he is, after credible people in the community were saying that he's not.

Bitcoin and ist usability was never about ppl - so better discuss tech and economics only -
thats  where is the way where u can be separate to trolls - who only can do that name calling crap.    not my fields

[franky1]

Bitcoin and ist usability was never about ppl - so better discuss tech and economics only -
thats  where is the way where u can be separate to trolls - who only can do that name calling crap.    not my fields

you usually spot the people who dont do technical research/code reading. and just wanna name names. they intensify their efforts when certain events like roundtables, consensus conferences and code-a-thons occur because they want to get people talking about faketoshi and not actual bitcoin technicals.

windfury has moved into the troll group that loves the namecalling finger pointing buzzwording foolishness that whenever something technical is mentioned the main reply is just 'wrong because X said it'

as for windfury with his endless pastes of 'no iou' no 'pegged coins'
if he just done research on the difference between bitcoins CLTV tx  vs LN's HTLC tx he will see the IOU
if he just done research on the difference between bitcoins satoshis  vs LN's msats he will see the pegged tokens

but its been pages of discussion and weeks-months of opportunity for windfury to do some independant bitcoin research.. and yet he declines

[hv_]

Bitcoin and ist usability was never about ppl - so better discuss tech and economics only -
thats  where is the way where u can be separate to trolls - who only can do that name calling crap.    not my fields

you usually spot the people who dont do technical research/code reading. and just wanna name names. they intensify their efforts when certain events like roundtables, consensus conferences and code-a-thons occur because they want to get people talking about faketoshi and not actual bitcoin technicals.

windfury has moved into the troll group that loves the namecalling finger pointing buzzwording foolishness that whenever something technical is mentioned the main reply is just 'wrong because X said it'

as for windfury with his endless pastes of 'no iou' no 'pegged coins'
if he just done research on the difference between bitcoins CLTV tx  vs LN's HTLC tx he will see the IOU
if he just done research on the difference between bitcoins satoshis  vs LN's msats he will see the pegged tokens

but its been pages of discussion and weeks-months of opportunity for windfury to do some independant bitcoin research.. and yet he declines

It is very hard - as all Bitcoiners should know - to find a decent consensus - not only for code, but also about to talk about

If things get too techy - too many are lost

if things get too economics  -- same


We are human and started talking about ppl and their soap opera - there most  can be found / locked in talking about - trolling.

-In the end, it is about us to properly educate and WORK on shifting up the level of consens / discussion that many can get it.

PoW

[Wind_FURY]

Newbies, I encourage you to listen to Khaos77.

Learn.

FTFY,

You know I provide links, so anyone reading my posts should also read the links.
This will help them form their own opinion, which for those with an IQ>70 will come to the same conclusion I did.
(Also they can use google to confirm, it is called research, if they so choose.)
Those like windfury with an IQ<70 , won't understand anything, don't research anything, and will continue to rail against logical thought.
Sad , but as the old saying goes , you can't fix stupid.

No you can't, and I know I'm the most stupid in the forum, and you're the smartest. But nothing in the links you provide, with all its techno-babble, proves that there are "IOU pegged promises to pay tokens" in Lightning.

No , not  the smartest, Most likely in the Top 30 however.  
You don't have to be Einstein to see the truth.

IOU are Promises/contracts to Pay,
All LN does is make promises/contracts to pay, and at the end , hopefully allow those promises to be redeem onchain.

If that one simple thing is over your head , then so be it.

But for you to continue to rail against what is completely apparent, shows a psychosis that is borderline requiring an institution.
Where they give you a coat that ties in the back.    

So finally Bitcoin is not sth easy to get. It touches so many fields - mostly now as a financial instrument / commodity

This is true. There's some people in the community that are so lost that they readily believe some Australian guy is Satoshi Nakamoto because he said he is, after credible people in the community were saying that he's not.

Bitcoin and ist usability was never about ppl - so better discuss tech and economics only -
thats  where is the way where u can be separate to trolls - who only can do that name calling crap.    not my fields

That's true, and I'm the self-admitted stupid one. But answer me this simple question, is Craig Wright Satoshi Nakamoto?

Bitcoin and ist usability was never about ppl - so better discuss tech and economics only -
thats  where is the way where u can be separate to trolls - who only can do that name calling crap.    not my fields

you usually spot the people who dont do technical research/code reading. and just wanna name names. they intensify their efforts when certain events like roundtables, consensus conferences and code-a-thons occur because they want to get people talking about faketoshi and not actual bitcoin technicals.

windfury has moved into the troll group that loves the namecalling finger pointing buzzwording foolishness that whenever something technical is mentioned the main reply is just 'wrong because X said it'

as for windfury with his endless pastes of 'no iou' no 'pegged coins'
if he just done research on the difference between bitcoins CLTV tx  vs LN's HTLC tx he will see the IOU
if he just done research on the difference between bitcoins satoshis  vs LN's msats he will see the pegged tokens

but its been pages of discussion and weeks-months of opportunity for windfury to do some independant bitcoin research.. and yet he declines

That's why I encourage all the newbies to listen to you. You are the smart one, the coder, and the only human who can pick every Core developer apart.

Newbies, franky1 is right, I don't know anything. Follow franky1's advice, and Do Your Own Research.

[Khaos77]

Clarification:

Offchain Solutions are not scaling ,

Offchain Solutions are offloading transactions from an overburdened network to a Network that can handle larger volumes.

True Scaling can only be achieved by Onchain Solitions, such as larger blocksizes or Faster BlockSpeeds.

For your consideration:
To increase capacity, of moving water from spot A to spot B.
You would
1. Use a Bigger Bucket
or
2. Use the same bucket but move twice as fast between Spot A & Spot B

[Khaos77]

Clarification:

Offchain Translations are not scaling ,

Offchain Transactions are offloading transactions from an overburdened network to a Network that can handle larger volumes.

That's a weird spark to light this thread back up with. Who cares what you want to define it as? If it works, it works.

The real question ,  is why does knowing the truth
that Offchain is Offloading and not scaling bother you so much.

Maybe because the scaling myth is needed for a false PR campaign , that you help promote.

FYI

Point being, your opinion isn't worth very much.

LOL, it was worth enough that you gave me a merit.  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=2522969

February 04, 2019, 06:43:47 AM: 1 from nutildah

* By the way , people that purchased at $10000 and above are currently still in the loss zone.*

[nutildah]

The real question ,  is why does knowing the truth
that Offchain is Offloading and not scaling bother you so much.

Did you miss the part of my reply where I said "who cares"?

Maybe because the scaling myth is needed for a false PR campaign , that you help promote.

You're literally attacking a problem that doesn't exist.

After your adamantly-worded doomsday predictions about bitcoin failed to materialize I don't why you're not too embarrassed to continue posting here.

But for fun let's take a look at your comment edit. Perhaps you thought you were coming off as a bit too trollish and wanted to add some substance.

True Scaling can only be achieved by Onchain Solitions, such as larger blocksizes or Faster BlockSpeeds.

For your consideration:
To increase capacity, of moving water from spot A to spot B.
You would
1. Use a Bigger Bucket
or
2. Use the same bucket but move twice as fast between Spot A & Spot B

You're not really thinking outside of the box here.

1. Bigger buckets require more energy
2. So does moving twice as fast between Spot A & Spot B

What if you could create a channel between the two spots to move the water for you?
Then you don't need to bigger buckets, and after having set up the channel the water would move with very little energy.

LOL, it was worth enough that you gave me a merit.  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=2522969

February 04, 2019, 06:43:47 AM: 1 from nutildah

I merited a different comment than that one:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105657.msg49576064#msg49576064

It was written previous to you going full retard.

[Khaos77]

The real question ,  is why does knowing the truth
that Offchain is Offloading and not scaling bother you so much.

Did you miss the part of my reply where I said "who cares"?

Then why do you keep replying to it , if you don't care.  

True Scaling can only be achieved by Onchain Solitions, such as larger blocksizes or Faster BlockSpeeds.

For your consideration:
To increase capacity, of moving water from spot A to spot B.
You would
1. Use a Bigger Bucket
or
2. Use the same bucket but move twice as fast between Spot A & Spot B

You're not really thinking outside of the box here.

1. Bigger buckets require more energy
2. So does moving twice as fast between Spot A & Spot B

What if you could create a channel between the two spots to move the water for you?
Then you don't need to bigger buckets, and after having set up the channel the water would move with very little energy.

Offchain Means the ACTUAL WATER is not moved between the two spots,
only IOUs move thru the channels, which is totally useless in a world where water needs to arrive
and an IOU for water can't be used in its place.
Feel free to try and drink an IOU, when you need the real thing.

Which is why people need to learn the true meaning of words,
because trying to drink a glass of water verses a IOU for water is a big difference that can get you killed in certain environments.

Offloading is not Scaling.
That difference becomes dangerous, when the capacity is so overloaded,
Offloading becomes delayed for days or weeks.
True Scaling, there is no fear of delays for days or weeks.
True Scaling can only happen onchain.

I gave you a merit before I went full retard.

FTFY  

[XinXan]

Clearly the point of cryptos is to eventually switch to a fully decentralized environment, this is hard to do. No one in this space wants to give a given entity enough power to control a coin or the entire market. Privacy I believe is the biggest issue here and while I personally don't care, a lot of people do. I don't know what's the solution but I would like to get rid of KYC.

[Khaos77]

Clearly the point of cryptos is to eventually switch to a fully decentralized environment, this is hard to do. No one in this space wants to give a given entity enough power to control a coin or the entire market. Privacy I believe is the biggest issue here and while I personally don't care, a lot of people do. I don't know what's the solution but I would like to get rid of KYC.

Every Crypto I have seen is becoming more centralized not the reverse.

Thinking crypto is moving toward decentralization is a false assumption.

[jak3]

The difference between the on the chain and off chain networks is the synchronization. Like many exchanges have implemented on the chain and off chain transactions. Because of this, there is reliability and you do not have to synchronize with multiple exchanges in order to do that.

[TahuDiniHari]

Clearly the point of cryptos is to eventually switch to a fully decentralized environment, this is hard to do. No one in this space wants to give a given entity enough power to control a coin or the entire market. Privacy I believe is the biggest issue here and while I personally don't care, a lot of people do. I don't know what's the solution but I would like to get rid of KYC.

Every Crypto I have seen is becoming more centralized not the reverse.

Thinking crypto is moving toward decentralization is a false assumption.

but, a little is true.  but I think crypto must be flexible in any field, as long as they still have a mission on the same path, namely the cryotocurrency path, because it's very difficult to fight the progress of the times, there are always new ideas in the crypto world.

[Khaos77]

Clearly the point of cryptos is to eventually switch to a fully decentralized environment, this is hard to do. No one in this space wants to give a given entity enough power to control a coin or the entire market. Privacy I believe is the biggest issue here and while I personally don't care, a lot of people do. I don't know what's the solution but I would like to get rid of KYC.

Every Crypto I have seen is becoming more centralized not the reverse.

Thinking crypto is moving toward decentralization is a false assumption.

but, a little is true.  but I think crypto must be flexible in any field, as long as they still have a mission on the same path, namely the cryotocurrency path, because it's very difficult to fight the progress of the times, there are always new ideas in the crypto world.

Exactly what little is true in a false assumption?