Buy the DIP, and HODL!

[Yaunfitda]

@Wind_FURY- and this could be BTC or any others assets like stocks or like property if you can afford it. I have bitcoin and stocks though, so I'm good with it. But if  I will add diversification, and if my chance my bitcoin holdings will be enough for me to buy a good property than I can afford then I will do it. And then I will continue with my bitcoin strategy to collect again, at least in another 4 year cycle and then still maintain that property or even can make money out of it by renting it monthly, that will be perfect diversification for me.

[1714728090]

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[1714728090]

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[1714728090]

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[Odohu]

To the readers of the topic. In my humble opinion, diversification for plebs like us is a bad investment strategy. VERY bad in fact. Why? Because we don't have the same amount of capital as Warren Buffett to make it effective. If their $1 billion invested makes 20% in one year, that's $200,000,000. I believe that's more than enough especially if they outperformed the S&P 500 index.

Plus we don't need the hedge to reduce volatility because we are not asset managers who manage OTHER people's money. For us, we concentrate to one or two investments, if we want to truly make an amount of money that matters.

What is your take on investing in the physical sector like real estate? I know of my country where real estate is a huge business that gives massive return on investment. From the records available, the value of real estate here doubles every decade and it is reliable and transferable to heirs. This can be a good option to add to Bitcoin.

I understand Bitcoin do give more than double with a decade and this  trend does not look it will change soon. The bottom-line of our discussion is how to generate sustainable wealth so, I a kind of still support other business venture like real estate that can also be good investment opportunities. Besides, there is joy and self fulfillment you get when you see your physical asset.

However, Bitcoin does not require so much technicality to venture into...the entire process of buying, storing and buying more can be learnt within a short period of time at one's convenient time and location. Unlike other ventures that requires so much processes like documentations, legal aspect and others; all of which have associated risks.

[naira]

Yeah your actually correct but from my observation similar to what Jay said, selling off your gold to Bitcoin is actually a wise decision but the security of your key phrases are are not guaranteed because loosing the key is equal as losing your money and even if you should entrust it to someone, what are the chances that he will not scam you and made away with your money but the safest way is to keep it at your only reach were no one has access to except you.

I entrusted the key to healing to the right person, namely my own wife. Because our original goal was to collect Bitcoins for my young son's future so that when he grows up he will have an inheritance. So far, that's all we've done together as one of the legacies we can give. Because of that, we have considered many things, starting from securing the recovery seed, etc. Do as much as possible in a safe way only the two of us know.

Regardless of how we have done it, we still realize that we are not fully able to invest regularly, sometimes we can only afford it once a week, once a month or even once every 2 months, depending on the available money after which basic needs are met.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

Basically I don't mind someone's decision to diversify their assets instead of just bitcoin. Of course I don't want to elaborate on the potential benefits of diversifying them, but let's be honest that such an approach can never go completely wrong in your investment plan.

Diversifying one's investment is not even a bad idea when carrying out investment, but like on this thread, where we are only discussing bitcoin investment and how to manage one's investment very well, Investing in Bitcoin is by choice and not a forceful thing. Anyone who wants to diversify their investment can still do so, but only if they have a lot of money to do so. For instance, if someone receives up to $3k in a month, they can decide to invest $1k in Bitcoin every month while they invest another $1k in something of their interest and use the remaining $1k to pay bills. Well, the inflow of cash can still be low, but the person knows better how he or she can share the funds across any other investment they want to make.

[superman184]

Wow!
Jay you have said it all, bitcoin has a higher use case compared to gold. Bitcoin can be used for payment, Investment, Store of value, Donations and Smart contract so why would I choose gold over bitcoin. Ha ha if money can't buy your love, maybe bitcoin will do.

Obviously you can, because I have also seen people who propose to their love after owning Bitcoin, either he has sold Bitcoin to build a family by getting married, or he still has it today. Because maybe he has also fallen in love with Bitcoin after knowing more about Bitcoin which can indeed be used as payments, Investments, Store of value, Donations, and Smart contracts. If you have a lot of gold in your life I think you can sell some of it to buy Bitcoin if you already know a lot about Bitcoin. But that's just a small suggestion from me because the final decision is still in your own hands.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

The 3rd party custody has always been a risky thing for the holders of Bitcoin and it will remain as the riskiest thing for all those people who are still holding their Bitcoin in 3rd party custodial wallets. I'm more than sure that most of the investors who have invested in Bitcoin are keeping their coins on those custodial exchanges without even knowing the risks. If you check the Bitcoin holdings of the top exchanges then you will know that most of those coins in real belong to the users not the exchanges.

Sure, the coins are supposed to belong to the clients, but many times laws and legal proceedings are not friendly in that directions, and then also the terms of service may or may not specify ownership or what the 3rd parties (the exchanges) can legally do with the coins.. and so there are a lot of injustices in the world - but and so the concrete principle of not your keys not your coins rings a lot of truth - even though surely people do not even trust themselves sometimes, and even some kinds of institutions (or even individuals sometimes in certain kinds of accounts that might be entitled to tax benefits) are not legally able to hold their own keys.. even though there are a lot of ways in which creative people are trying to figure out shared custodian arrangements - so it is not even always clear what might be the more feasible practices, because some people/institutions might not even realize the extent to which they are vulnerable to rug pulls (or somehow being locked out of their coins) until such rug pulling happens.

If they get the awareness that all of their coins are at risk of getting lost or stolen by those exchanges then they will never keep their coins in those custodial wallets.

That's not true... like I just mentioned, there are some institutions and individuals who might be required to keep their coins in some kind of a 3rd party arrangement, and also frequently if someone does not really know what they are doing in terms of holding their own coins, those people may well be better off holding their coins with 3rd parties. and so it seems difficult for the problems with 3rd parties to just go away, at least in the short to medium term.. which could even end up being generations of evolution and development of various self-custodial (or quasi-self-custodial) solutions, and in the mean time, more sophisticated players are going to take advantage, manipulate and even just work within these kinds of systems to their own advantage.. even if maybe some of those third parties might not be trying to do anything evil.

I agree that software wallets also have vulnerabilities and which can be penetrated by the hacker to steal the Bitcoin out of those wallets, but still they are safer than the custodian wallets because at least in those wallets you have your own control over the private keys.

That is still not true in all cases.

Sure there are benefits to having your own private keys, but if there is a known vulnerability (and even in recent times there has been quite a bit of discussion regarding the ways that the random generator system might have had been faulty and therefore unwittingly vulnerable)

Yes, most of the people will of course left their Bitcoin for their heirs as we all know that there are people in 80's holding Bitcoin and if they have heirs then they will most probably leave those Bitcoin for those heirs, and if the heirs don't know the proper use of those coins then they will misuse the hard-work of the one who has sacrificed most of his/her desires to keep those Bitcoin safe for their next generation.

So far, we are hearing a lot of examples coming from younger people rather than older people, but still examples of ways to screw up the passing of coins to heirs can come from all ages of people.

-snip-

You are right; that's the reason why some people cease to invest in Bitcoin and land themselves in a hot soup of shitcoins, but still end up regretting their decision when they can't get any profit. Some people usually have the mindset that Bitcoin is too expensive to buy a whole, but I still try to convince anyone I come across with such a mindset, telling them that they don't need to buy a whole of Bitcoin at once, nor do they need to save for many years before they can buy one Bitcoin at once. If one is still consistent in their accumulation, either weekly or even monthly, depending on how often they are getting the cash inflow, then they might still be able to accumulate a huge fraction of Bitcoin before they realise it.

Basically I don't mind someone's decision to diversify their assets instead of just bitcoin. Of course I don't want to elaborate on the potential benefits of diversifying them, but let's be honest that such an approach can never go completely wrong in your investment plan.

If you are referring to diversification for the mere sake of it (because you think that there is a benefit to that), then you are wrong.  Things can go wrong.. because you dilute your investment and you lack focus.

Alternatively, if you are believe that diversification into shitcoins constitutes any kind of meaningful diversification, then you are wrong.  Things can go wrong.. because again you are diluting your investment into nonsense.. including into a field that is already correlated to bitcoin.. so shitcoins move along with bitcoin, so if you diversify into them, you are merely adding more risk to an already risky investment area (namely bitcoin).. and the general idea of getting benefits from diversification comes from investing in differing categories of asset classes (hopefully not correlated), and traditionally those differing categories of asset classes would be equities (stocks), bonds (various kinds of debt instruments), properties, commodities and various kinds of cash exposure.  Surely some of the recent problems with the various lack of non-correlation, even with the traditionally different categories, is that so many of them are corrupted by the various ways that the categories are tending to be overly leveraged by various ways that the dollar (and other fiat currencies) are propped up in ways that natural market dynamics are not allowed to take place.. and even shitcoins actually incorporate some of the various fiat corruptions in varying ways that are not necessarily consistent between them, but does not seem to be a justification to "diversify" into those varying kinds of smoke and mirror products for the mere sake of "being diversified".

Buy dip and hold is the best way for anyone looking to accumulate. A limited/small budget is not the main problem as long as they have the desire, it's just that a lot of people are greedy where they want to get rich quick without understanding how best to do it. You don't need to rush to own 1 bitcoin, but just do it consistently and get yours within your budget.

I cannot disagree with any of this.

[edited out]

[edited out]

Yeah your actually correct but from my observation similar to what Jay said, selling off your gold to Bitcoin is actually a wise decision but the security of your key phrases are are not guaranteed because loosing the key is equal as losing your money and even if you should entrust it to someone, what are the chances that he will not scam you and made away with your money

Ultimately I agree with you in terms of the questioning of the value of having allocations in gold, yet surely people are going to have varying positions in regards to gold in terms of if they already have some gold versus whether they might actively consider putting gold into their investment portfolio, so there can be some differences regarding whether to expose yourself to gold at all based on if you are already exposed and/or if you already have the knowledge base (and or infrastructure awareness) versus if you are brand new considering gold as something to add to your investment portfolio.

Either way, the end result should be little to no gold, yet I am not telling people what to do because they can do whatever they want, including dumb stuff, and in the end, they are responsible for their own allocation decisions, and surely they could go against everyone and end up being correct, or maybe they go with everyone, and they end up being incorrect.  There are degrees to which we might figure out a system for ourselves or alternatively follow varying aspects of systems that other people point out.

but the safest way is to keep it at your only reach were no one has access to except you.

What happens if you get hit on the head, and you cannot remember anything?  What about death?  Are you going to have plans in place for those kinds of possibilities, and if you leave instructions, are those instructions clear enough and/or are those instructions vulnerable to someone finding them prior to your death and/or disability and using those instructions to remove you from your coins?

Even though I don't disagree with your overall point about difficulties in trusting others, but I have my doubts about whether there is any one safe way including that keeping most (if not everything) to yourself has its own potential downfalls - even if it may well be safe from certain kinds of attacks that involve anyone else, even your mom taking your coins from you... if you don't trust anyone, then what kind of world are you living in.. a "safe" one?

[edited out]

It always depends on the type of investor you want to be and the level of risk you're comfortable with in your investment strategy. Bitcoin offers an opportunity for those with higher risk tolerance, while physical gold provides a long-term and secure investment option.

Fuck gold.

You really want to pump gold in this thread in regards to its supposed "long-term and secure investment option"?

One thing I am certain about is that Bitcoin poses a threat to gold due to its use of blockchain technology, which offers strong security for owners.

you sound like you have absorbed shitcoiner talking points from 2014-2016... or maybe you are listening to too many mainstream media pundits about bitcoin being valuable due to its "blockchain technology?"   

What a bunch of gobble-dee-gook.

Unlike gold, which can be stolen if physically accessed, Bitcoin's digital nature provides protection. If enhanced security measures can be applied to various exchanges, then why would I keep my assets physically visible when I could store them digitally and keep them hidden?

This part of your post seems to be getting back on track.

[edited out]

Wow!
Jay you have said it all, bitcoin has a higher use case compared to gold. Bitcoin can be used for payment, Investment, Store of value, Donations and Smart contract so why would I choose gold over bitcoin. Ha ha if money can't buy your love, maybe bitcoin will do.

I am not completely dismissing any use case for any other asset, but instead attempting to weighing the trade-offs in terms of valuations that seem more tied into comparing the various use cases, and surely there are still narrow use cases for gold and other assets, and surely bitcoin does not have physical properties which does cause gold (for example) to have some values that bitcoin does not have, but the mere fact that gold can be used for jewlery and industrial uses and even that it has been historically used for thousands of years does not cause it to be a better money than bitcoin, or even an equal money to bitcoin.. even though it could take a bit longer for gold to lose more and more of its monetary premium and a decent amount of gold's ongoing loss of monetary premium can likely be attributed to the existence of bitcoin, and various superior bitcoin features (at least superior in terms of bitcoin's monetary attributes).

[edited out]

To the readers of the topic. In my humble opinion, diversification for plebs like us is a bad investment strategy. VERY bad in fact. Why? Because we don't have the same amount of capital as Warren Buffett to make it effective. If their $1 billion invested makes 20% in one year, that's $200,000,000. I believe that's more than enough especially if they outperformed the S&P 500 index.

Plus we don't need the hedge to reduce volatility because we are not asset managers who manage OTHER people's money. For us, we concentrate to one or two investments, if we want to truly make an amount of money that matters.

I mostly agree with you Wind_FURY - even though I have my doubts about whether you got this right since you are continuing to make this argument about "different rules applying to poor people".. which is not completely wrong, even though you tend to emphasize it so much that contributes to flaws in your emphasis of such.

In other words, there likely tends to be more value in diversification as your investment/savings portfolio grows, and at what point some diversification is good is going to have quite a few discretionary aspects that lead us back to figuring out which goals the investor is trying to achieve in terms of growth of wealth versus preservation of wealth balances. 

Even if you might presume that everyone wants to get rich, there are some trade-offs that some people might be willing to make and others prefer not to make those kinds of trade-offs.

And surely there tends to be a decent amount of truth that concentration of investments are likely to contribute to greater potential for growth, yet again, some people are not willing to take those kinds of concentration of investment risks that likely end up in too much volatility, including that they might already know that they are going to need access to some of their wealth in various short term periods, and they cannot be taking the risk that their one or two investments happen to be down 60% to 85% at the time that they are considering tapping into it, so in that sense it may well be better to be able to draw from some assets that are more stable, even if they might not grow very well, but if you don't have any of those kinds of assets, then you are forced to have to spend from the asset that is 60% to 85% down.

So, there is some value in terms of when to start to diversify your savings/investment in bitcoin beyond bitcoin and cash and maybe into some other assets, and if you stick only with bitcoin and cash, then you can sometimes play around with those two and find enough comfort .. but I have my doubts.. .. even though there are people who maintain very concentrated approaches towards what they are investing/saving in... and for sure, they have the right to do that to themselves... even if such concentration of wealth may well not be good practices for the  vast majority of normies.. even supposedly poor plebs like uie-pooie.

@Wind_FURY- and this could be BTC or any others assets like stocks or like property if you can afford it. I have bitcoin and stocks though, so I'm good with it. But if  I will add diversification, and if my chance my bitcoin holdings will be enough for me to buy a good property than I can afford then I will do it. And then I will continue with my bitcoin strategy to collect again, at least in another 4 year cycle and then still maintain that property or even can make money out of it by renting it monthly, that will be perfect diversification for me.

There is nothing wrong with this idea - in the event that you are not actually overvaluing the property and the income that you might get from it.

If you prematurely get into the property and you bring your bitcoin holdings down to near zero or at zero just because you want that property and to have the income stream from the property, you may well have sold yourself short in terms of perhaps needing 10 years to make up for the amount of BTC that you ended up giving up in order to make that choice.

Sure, you may well speculate that the property is a "solid" investment in comparison to bitcoin, but you may well be deluded in your own brainwashing and inability to recognize/appreciate value.

An investment property (for cashflow) and a personal residence are going to have differing considerations, but even buying your own residence versus renting is not an "obvious" trade off in terms of either diversification, if that is what you are trying to achieve, or even having more stable value in terms of both balancing value growth and stability (referring to preserving principle).

So for example, if we go by your forum registration date, you have been saving for more than 10 years, and maybe you started to diversify into bitcoin around 8 years ago (at the time that you registered on forum), but maybe you did not invest into bitcoin very aggressively in the beginning and you made some mistakes, so maybe you have around 4.45 BTC (around $130k worth of bitcoin) - like in this example of investing $20 per week for the past 8 years, and you are considering buying some kind of an investment property or even a residential property to live in with that value.... 

Let's say that in your area investment properties of the type that you want are around $250k to $500k, and it is not easy to get reasonable property loans in your area... based on your income or even property collateral..

So sure, you have options because you have already built a decent BTC portfolio, but how much are you going to take from it in order to invest in the property, and how much is that going to end up taking away from your BTC holdings.. and how easy might it be to get that BTC back, versus if you just continued to invest into Bitcoin for the next 5-10 years, and then see how much those 4.45 BTC are worth after another cycle or two, so maybe you might not even need a whole BTC in order to completely buy the investment properties, even if similar investment properties might end up going up to $500k to $1million in the next 5-10 years.

I think that part of my point is to consider the trade-offs, and my use of those numbers might not be very accurate or realistic, but it still shows that there can be pretty BIG opportunity costs for people who end up selling too many BTC too soon for the mere sake of believing that they have put themselves into a better financial position through their premature diversification - even if it might make them feel MOAR GOODER in the short-term.

[edited out]

What is your take on investing in the physical sector like real estate? I know of my country where real estate is a huge business that gives massive return on investment. From the records available, the value of real estate here doubles every decade and it is reliable and transferable to heirs. This can be a good option to add to Bitcoin.

I understand Bitcoin do give more than double with a decade and this  trend does not look it will change soon. The bottom-line of our discussion is how to generate sustainable wealth so, I a kind of still support other business venture like real estate that can also be good investment opportunities. Besides, there is joy and self fulfillment you get when you see your physical asset.

However, Bitcoin does not require so much technicality to venture into...the entire process of buying, storing and buying more can be learnt within a short period of time at one's convenient time and location. Unlike other ventures that requires so much processes like documentations, legal aspect and others; all of which have associated risks.

I think that my above example (responding to Yaunfitda) kind of addresses these ideas and even similar scenarios... and you seem to even point out that the cost of property ownership might not be getting you as much "returns" as you might superficially believe them to be capable of.. including 2x in 10 years, and even though I think that people might be exaggerating BTC returns as averaging 2x every year, but I still think that bitcoin is a way better investment than property in the coming 10 years.. and do what you like.. including that if you are going to live in the property, then you do have the saving of rent.. but you are still tied down in ways that you would not be with merely renting.. so sure there are some values that come with property ownership, but you likely need to question how much of your bitcoin (or your opportunity costs of having fewer bitcoin) is going to be worth it to buy property sooner than you should when maybe you could wait until your BTC stash is bigger.. and of course, you can choose what you like, even if it is not really the better of the choices merely because you are inclined to accumulate something physical. or maybe income producing or maybe ways to deduct expenses.. and none of those things are bad.. but still might end up being premature to jump in too soon, even if that's where your inclinations lie.

[noormcs5]

Wow!
Jay you have said it all, bitcoin has a higher use case compared to gold. Bitcoin can be used for payment, Investment, Store of value, Donations and Smart contract so why would I choose gold over bitcoin. Ha ha if money can't buy your love, maybe bitcoin will do.

Obviously you can, because I have also seen people who propose to their love after owning Bitcoin, either he has sold Bitcoin to build a family by getting married, or he still has it today. Because maybe he has also fallen in love with Bitcoin after knowing more about Bitcoin which can indeed be used as payments, Investments, Store of value, Donations, and Smart contracts. If you have a lot of gold in your life I think you can sell some of it to buy Bitcoin if you already know a lot about Bitcoin. But that's just a small suggestion from me because the final decision is still in your own hands.

If you have a lot of fiat money (paper money) you should consider buying both Gold and Bitcoin, however personally i would put more investment in Bitcoin as compared to gold. The reason i am saying this is because the gold being less volatile while bitcoin being more volatile but gives more ROI.

If you only have Gold, better sell some gold and buy some bitcoins before its too late. The current prices of bitcoin are good to buy.

Also if you only have bitcoin, then it depends upon you if you want to buy some gold too, I would say to keep your portfolio in bitcoin but later when bitcoin reaches new All time high, convert some of that bitcoin into gold.

[JayJuanGee]

Also if you only have bitcoin, then it depends upon you if you want to buy some gold too, I would say to keep your portfolio in bitcoin but later when bitcoin reaches new All time high, convert some of that bitcoin into gold.

This is not really that bad of a suggestion.. and there might even be some practicality to it.. yet it also might be where part of the contention lies, and maybe we need to be more specific about this hypothetical person who might believe it to be a good idea to sell off some bitcoin to buy gold rather than buying something else or even is there a need to sell bitcoin in the first place. how long has the hypothetical person been accumulating his bitcoin? 

Therefore, how big is such person's BTC holdings in comparison to other investment assets that s/he owns?.. and then gosh, maybe we need to get into the other individual particulars that relate to cashflow, timeline, risk tolerance and the various others.

Another angle is what you might be considering ATH?  Start selling BTC at $69,001? or you are thinking about some other price point to start selling some bitcoin for gold... and then how much?  and what if the BTC price keeps going up and I am selling BTC in increments, might I run out of BTC at some point? 

Then once we are holding some gold, what do we do with it?  Are you thinking physical gold or paper derivatives?  Oh my the more I think about this idea of selling bitcoin for gold, seems like a BIG ass waste of time and efforts and probably money too.... especially if you consider what purpose the gold is supposed to serve in my portfolio as compared to some other asset/currency, that might include cash, property, equities, bonds or even other commodities besides gold.

[Odohu]

I think that my above example (responding to Yaunfitda) kind of addresses these ideas and even similar scenarios... and you seem to even point out that the cost of property ownership might not be getting you as much "returns" as you might superficially believe them to be capable of.. including 2x in 10 years

Well, while I posited that property is also a good way to invest and this depend entire on choice, comfort and the level of knowledge, I never dispelled the risk and uncertainties. In other words, investment in properties has its own risk and the returns may not even guaranteed. As a matter of fact,there have been several cases of scam such as some bad elements selling same property to several buyers and disappearing, level them to face endless legal battle. A lot of people have lost all their savings to issues like this. Conversely, you can never see something like this with Bitcoin as one is entirely in control of his money.

but I still think that bitcoin is a way better investment than property in the coming 10 years..  

I completely agree with you that Bitcoin is better and more profitable. Bitcoin have been around for less than two decades and have experienced astronomical growth in value. With the events lined up for Bitcoin and the popularity it is enjoying, we will see huge and rapid growth in Bitcoin in the new future.

[Moreno233]

.

[edited out]

What is your take on investing in the physical sector like real estate? I know of my country where real estate is a huge business that gives massive return on investment. From the records available, the value of real estate here doubles every decade and it is reliable and transferable to heirs. This can be a good option to add to Bitcoin.

I understand Bitcoin do give more than double with a decade and this  trend does not look it will change soon. The bottom-line of our discussion is how to generate sustainable wealth so, I a kind of still support other business venture like real estate that can also be good investment opportunities. Besides, there is joy and self fulfillment you get when you see your physical asset.

However, Bitcoin does not require so much technicality to venture into...the entire process of buying, storing and buying more can be learnt within a short period of time at one's convenient time and location. Unlike other ventures that requires so much processes like documentations, legal aspect and others; all of which have associated risks.

I think that my above example (responding to Yaunfitda) kind of addresses these ideas and even similar scenarios... and you seem to even point out that the cost of property ownership might not be getting you as much "returns" as you might superficially believe them to be capable of.. including 2x in 10 years, and even though I think that people might be exaggerating BTC returns as averaging 2x every year, but I still think that bitcoin is a way better investment than property in the coming 10 years.. and do what you like.. including that if you are going to live in the property, then you do have the saving of rent.. but you are still tied down in ways that you would not be with merely renting.. so sure there are some values that come with property ownership, but you likely need to question how much of your bitcoin (or your opportunity costs of having fewer bitcoin) is going to be worth it to buy property sooner than you should when maybe you could wait until your BTC stash is bigger.. and of course, you can choose what you like, even if it is not really the better of the choices merely because you are inclined to accumulate something physical. or maybe income producing or maybe ways to deduct expenses.. and none of those things are bad.. but still might end up being premature to jump in too soon, even if that's where your inclinations lie.

Comparing Bitcoin to buying real estate is actually awkward! It really do not make sense. How can you compare two things that cannot be compared. Properties detoriate with time, you will need to spend a large chunk of your profit to maintain the property whereas you will spend nothing to service your Bitcoin... you will sleep, wake up and see your investment increase and multiply. If you calculate how long it will take property investment to give x3, you might probably not be alive to see that happen but in our lifetime, Bitcoin have grown in multiple of several tens.

Anyone who is opportune to know about Bitcoin but still think on the direction of real estate for whatever reason should be seen as unserious.

[BigBos]

I agree that software wallets also have vulnerabilities and which can be penetrated by the hacker to steal the Bitcoin out of those wallets,

In this condition I think it depends on how meticulous you are because in my opinion, as long as we hold the seed correctly in the sense that it is not stored on a PC, Email or google drive and store your seed in writing in a safe place I think for software wallets it is still very secure.

When someone experiences a loss of assets in their software wallet, they need to realise that there must be several things that make it happen because to my knowledge, the wallet cannot be opened when other people do not know your seeds so when asset theft occurs, there must be one thing that makes you negligent in treating your seeds.

[Ryu_Ar1]

btw what I said earlier about the discussion will widen towards the comparison of gold and bitcoin seems to really happen

It seems to me that bitcoin is going to continue to eat gold's lunch, just as it has done in the past 10 years or more, so on an individual level you likely need to figure out how much to waste your time, energy and value to place it into gold... but whatever, each of us need to decide for ourselves the extent to which we might end up diluting our bitcoin investment into things like gold... I would suggest don't waste your time and money to invest any more than 10% of the value of your bitcoin investment into gold, but hey, you can do what you like.

Your observation is valid that Bitcoin can potentially replace Gold as a store of value gradually in the long run.. However, it is important to note that Gold has been considered as an important asset and hedge against fiat currencies since the dawn of human civilization. Furthermore, a significant potion of world population is unfamiliar with Bitcoin, but they know the value of Gold. In this context, it will take long time before Bitcoin can effectively replace Gold. Therefore, it is a good suggestion to incorporate Gold in our investment portfolio to certain extent, thereby achieving diversification benefits.

It always depends on the type of investor you want to be and the level of risk you're comfortable with in your investment strategy. Bitcoin offers an opportunity for those with higher risk tolerance, while physical gold provides a long-term and secure investment option. One thing I am certain about is that Bitcoin poses a threat to gold due to its use of blockchain technology, which offers strong security for owners. Unlike gold, which can be stolen if physically accessed, Bitcoin's digital nature provides protection. If enhanced security measures can be applied to various exchanges, then why would I keep my assets physically visible when I could store them digitally and keep them hidden?

Although indeed all have freedom but when saying safe in investment I think there is no such thing as safe and comfortable even if it is in gold. an example of this maybe we can see the words of @naira https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5132720.msg62675874#msg62675874

On the other hand, I think we now don't need to compare gold or bitcoin because our focus is on bitcoin and talking about threats, hmm come on only people who really don't like bitcoin say this is a threat to gold.

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

Basically I don't mind someone's decision to diversify their assets instead of just bitcoin. Of course I don't want to elaborate on the potential benefits of diversifying them, but let's be honest that such an approach can never go completely wrong in your investment plan.

Diversifying one's investment is not even a bad idea when carrying out investment, but like on this thread, where we are only discussing bitcoin investment and how to manage one's investment very well, Investing in Bitcoin is by choice and not a forceful thing. Anyone who wants to diversify their investment can still do so, but only if they have a lot of money to do so. For instance, if someone receives up to $3k in a month, they can decide to invest $1k in Bitcoin every month while they invest another $1k in something of their interest and use the remaining $1k to pay bills. Well, the inflow of cash can still be low, but the person knows better how he or she can share the funds across any other investment they want to make.

When giving an advise on bitcoin investment and how to create a diversification of asset to avoid putting all investment asset on the same basket, when we invested in bitcoin, it is expected of us to hold or have a specific target for the purchase made, how does diversification now fit in on this context, our bitcoin investment should be the major asset, while having one one two other investment that are not digital currency like real estate or gold could also serve an advantage, this is not what we will decide to take off our investment from bitcoin into other assets.

[Odusko]

Another supporting point is that if you consider bitcoin to be a kind of hedge against the whole system in the context of history in which gold was serving that purpose, then bitcoin has largely taken that use case for gold and is about 1,000x better than gold in terms of its verifiability, divisibility, transportability, securability (and cost of security) and even scarcity.

Your arguments in favour of Bitcoin's superiority as store of value, hedge against inflation and growth potential are truly very convincing. Since Bitcoin emerged onto the global financial stage, its unique attributes have cast shadow over the effectiveness of other assets that traditionally held these roles. The gradual diminishing effectiveness of these assets can be attributed to the profound impact Bitcoin has had on the landscape of global financial system.

The most appealing among the features that make superior to other assets that have exited before Bitcoin like Gold is bitcoin availability,  security and transferability this key features place Bitcoin as the best alternative to all the traditional system both in investment class and as a currency,  is just a matter of short time from now,  Bitcoin will surpass all the other assets categories in market cap and value,  since Bitcoin scarcity have continue to act as an anti inflation and the next year bitcoin will become more scarce and it value will increase more.

[Kodec5]

[edited out]

Your point is taken and projections well appreciated. While your projections are exciting and suiting to read, the path to their actualization are still not clear but then, they are opinion and hypothesis that are not cast in stones.

Well, there might be some kinds of projections that are more specific than others, but even if you had looked at my post in which I attempted to assign probabilities to all price ranges (up and down) and then to place those projections within a specific time frame, those probabilities were assigned based on that particular date, and sure maybe they will continue to stand, even in my own head for one, two, three or even more months until some kind of event might happen (whether it is merely the passage of time or some kind of a price event) that causes some needs for me to feel that I need to assign probabilities differently... and even if you specifically look at the prediction that greater than $1.5 million has a 0.5% chance of happening, that is a pretty damned low probability, so you can call me a crazy loon, because I have assigned a non-zero probability to such a large number, and I doubt that I am being unrealistic at all, even if someone else might have topped off at $100k having a 0.5% chance, and I would have called them loonie for failing to sufficiently/adequately account for upside scenarios, even if they still ended up being correct for the last cycle, but it still does not mean that they were correct in terms of the odds that they had given to $100k being breached.

On the aspect of Bitcoin and Gold, I think both will play a key role in the future. While the later have come of age, the former ia still young and will take some time to fully harness the potential.

It seems to me that bitcoin is going to continue to eat gold's lunch, just as it has done in the past 10 years or more, so on an individual level you likely need to figure out how much to waste your time, energy and value to place it into gold... but whatever, each of us need to decide for ourselves the extent to which we might end up diluting our bitcoin investment into things like gold... I would suggest don't waste your time and money to invest any more than 10% of the value of your bitcoin investment into gold, but hey, you can do what you like.

Interesting to see how people embracing the power of Bitcoin over Gold, Ha... Still not a bad idea holding Gold but you don't compare in terms of portability and safety. If your gold should get missing, how do we recover it? one question we ask ourselves. Bitcoin requires only a digital wallet with a backup phrase to recover in any circumstance, so very difficult to loose funds. I also suggest as others did buy and hold Bitcoin for a better future

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

Basically I don't mind someone's decision to diversify their assets instead of just bitcoin. Of course I don't want to elaborate on the potential benefits of diversifying them, but let's be honest that such an approach can never go completely wrong in your investment plan.

Diversifying one's investment is not even a bad idea when carrying out investment, but like on this thread, where we are only discussing bitcoin investment and how to manage one's investment very well, Investing in Bitcoin is by choice and not a forceful thing. Anyone who wants to diversify their investment can still do so, but only if they have a lot of money to do so. For instance, if someone receives up to $3k in a month, they can decide to invest $1k in Bitcoin every month while they invest another $1k in something of their interest and use the remaining $1k to pay bills. Well, the inflow of cash can still be low, but the person knows better how he or she can share the funds across any other investment they want to make.

When giving an advise on bitcoin investment and how to create a diversification of asset to avoid putting all investment asset on the same basket, when we invested in bitcoin, it is expected of us to hold or have a specific target for the purchase made, how does diversification now fit in on this context, our bitcoin investment should be the major asset, while having one one two other investment that are not digital currency like real estate or gold could also serve an advantage, this is not what we will decide to take off our investment from bitcoin into other assets.

Nope No, I feel like you got me wrong. My reply was based on what @Falconer said about diversifying investment, so I was just giving a reference for someone who wants to diversify, depending on how much they've got before they can even think of diversifying. For example, someone cannot have just $100 and think of making more than two investments with that amount. Despite that, it's also good that one invest in other things like real estate and gold, like you mentioned, but Bitcoin investment gives a better option of investment in the sense that one can easily just invest $100 or even as little as $10, whereas most of the other investments don't even allow a minimum investment of less than $500. Bitcoin investment is a long-term investment; one can have it as the major investment and even keep accumulating consistently, but that doesn't mean if you still have interest in other investments, you shouldn't invest, that's when you have the funds.
      Note that I am not saying that the person should sell off their Bitcoin assets to invest in another thing, nor am I saying that the person should abandon his consistent accumulation strategy. Some other investment can just be done at once, with Bitcoin, the person can keep investing steady anytime they receive a salary or Money from their other income source. So, let's say someone has invested a one-time $2k in real estate with a 40% APY in waiting. The person can still keep accumulating their Bitcoin consistently any time they receive salary. I just hope it's a bit comprehensive now.

[DanWalker]

-snip-

You are right; that's the reason why some people cease to invest in Bitcoin and land themselves in a hot soup of shitcoins, but still end up regretting their decision when they can't get any profit. Some people usually have the mindset that Bitcoin is too expensive to buy a whole, but I still try to convince anyone I come across with such a mindset, telling them that they don't need to buy a whole of Bitcoin at once, nor do they need to save for many years before they can buy one Bitcoin at once. If one is still consistent in their accumulation, either weekly or even monthly, depending on how often they are getting the cash inflow, then they might still be able to accumulate a huge fraction of Bitcoin before they realise it.

Basically I don't mind someone's decision to diversify their assets instead of just bitcoin. Of course I don't want to elaborate on the potential benefits of diversifying them, but let's be honest that such an approach can never go completely wrong in your investment plan.

Diversification is always encouraged in investing, but don't make the mistake of thinking that investing in shitcoins is considered diversification. Don't forget, the entire crypto industry is largely dependent on bitcoin, every market move follows bitcoin, so it's naive to invest in shitcoins and think it can save you risk.  

You can see, during last year's extreme bear season, bitcoin fell from $69k to $15k but only in the first few months of this year. Bitcoin has recovered and is at $30k, while thousands of shitcoins are still dropping hundreds of times and haven't had any significant recovery yet. So investing in shitcoins is not called diversification, diversification is when you invest in non-crypto assets.

In the crypto market, bitcoin is the only investment we have, the rest should only be considered gambling and not investment.

To the readers of the topic. In my humble opinion, diversification for plebs like us is a bad investment strategy. VERY bad in fact. Why? Because we don't have the same amount of capital as Warren Buffett to make it effective. If their $1 billion invested makes 20% in one year, that's $200,000,000. I believe that's more than enough especially if they outperformed the S&P 500 index.

Plus we don't need the hedge to reduce volatility because we are not asset managers who manage OTHER people's money. For us, we concentrate to one or two investments, if we want to truly make an amount of money that matters.

I see what you mean, we need to take risks, and trade-offs if we want to be successful, over-allocation of capital only dilutes assets and slows asset growth. This can also be considered if we do not have too much capital and are willing to accept losing everything. But it's not too bad if we diversify with 2 different assets if we have a significant amount of capital. I mean with that capital, you can both invest in bitcoin and buy real estate or open a small business for an extra source of income. In my opinion, having 2 sources of income is still better than relying on only 1. But as you said, it depends on your initial capital and should only add 1 asset other than bitcoin to avoid dilution.

[Wind_FURY]

[edited out]

To the readers of the topic. In my humble opinion, diversification for plebs like us is a bad investment strategy. VERY bad in fact. Why? Because we don't have the same amount of capital as Warren Buffett to make it effective. If their $1 billion invested makes 20% in one year, that's $200,000,000. I believe that's more than enough especially if they outperformed the S&P 500 index.

Plus we don't need the hedge to reduce volatility because we are not asset managers who manage OTHER people's money. For us, we concentrate to one or two investments, if we want to truly make an amount of money that matters.

I mostly agree with you Wind_FURY - even though I have my doubts about whether you got this right since you are continuing to make this argument about "different rules applying to poor people".. which is not completely wrong, even though you tend to emphasize it so much that contributes to flaws in your emphasis of such.

In other words, there likely tends to be more value in diversification as your investment/savings portfolio grows, and at what point some diversification is good is going to have quite a few discretionary aspects that lead us back to figuring out which goals the investor is trying to achieve in terms of growth of wealth versus preservation of wealth balances.  

Even if you might presume that everyone wants to get rich, there are some trade-offs that some people might be willing to make and others prefer not to make those kinds of trade-offs.

And surely there tends to be a decent amount of truth that concentration of investments are likely to contribute to greater potential for growth, yet again, some people are not willing to take those kinds of concentration of investment risks that likely end up in too much volatility, including that they might already know that they are going to need access to some of their wealth in various short term periods, and they cannot be taking the risk that their one or two investments happen to be down 60% to 85% at the time that they are considering tapping into it, so in that sense it may well be better to be able to draw from some assets that are more stable, even if they might not grow very well, but if you don't have any of those kinds of assets, then you are forced to have to spend from the asset that is 60% to 85% down.

So, there is some value in terms of when to start to diversify your savings/investment in bitcoin beyond bitcoin and cash and maybe into some other assets, and if you stick only with bitcoin and cash, then you can sometimes play around with those two and find enough comfort .. but I have my doubts.. .. even though there are people who maintain very concentrated approaches towards what they are investing/saving in... and for sure, they have the right to do that to themselves... even if such concentration of wealth may well not be good practices for the  vast majority of normies.. even supposedly poor plebs like uie-pooie.

It's not because someone is, to use your word, "poor" that different rules apply to him. What I said was the difference in the amount of capital. If an investor has $100,000,000, he can diversify it to 50 different investments and make 30% out of his capital in one year, the gain would be $30,000,000, which is very good. In contrast, if a pleb who has cash savings of $10,000 uses the same diversification strategy, it would profit only $3,000 for the year, which is also not bad, BUT barely life-changing. It's obviously better to HODL all in Bitcoin and make more than an average of 50% per year, and that's conservative.

Plus I researched how Warren Buffett diversifies his investments as an asset manager and I am Flabbergasted in what I learned.

World famous investor Warren Buffett isn't one to diversify when investing in stocks. In fact, the billionaire has even criticized the idea. As head of Berkshire Hathaway, Buffett's portfolio is focused on a narrow selection of industries -- and the biggest positions are in a handful of stocks.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/07/16/buffett-doesnt-diversify-investments-should-you/

-snip-

You are right; that's the reason why some people cease to invest in Bitcoin and land themselves in a hot soup of shitcoins, but still end up regretting their decision when they can't get any profit. Some people usually have the mindset that Bitcoin is too expensive to buy a whole, but I still try to convince anyone I come across with such a mindset, telling them that they don't need to buy a whole of Bitcoin at once, nor do they need to save for many years before they can buy one Bitcoin at once. If one is still consistent in their accumulation, either weekly or even monthly, depending on how often they are getting the cash inflow, then they might still be able to accumulate a huge fraction of Bitcoin before they realise it.

Basically I don't mind someone's decision to diversify their assets instead of just bitcoin. Of course I don't want to elaborate on the potential benefits of diversifying them, but let's be honest that such an approach can never go completely wrong in your investment plan.

Diversification is always encouraged in investing, but don't make the mistake of thinking that investing in shitcoins is considered diversification. Don't forget, the entire crypto industry is largely dependent on bitcoin, every market move follows bitcoin, so it's naive to invest in shitcoins and think it can save you risk.  

You can see, during last year's extreme bear season, bitcoin fell from $69k to $15k but only in the first few months of this year. Bitcoin has recovered and is at $30k, while thousands of shitcoins are still dropping hundreds of times and haven't had any significant recovery yet. So investing in shitcoins is not called diversification, diversification is when you invest in non-crypto assets.

In the crypto market, bitcoin is the only investment we have, the rest should only be considered gambling and not investment.

To the readers of the topic. In my humble opinion, diversification for plebs like us is a bad investment strategy. VERY bad in fact. Why? Because we don't have the same amount of capital as Warren Buffett to make it effective. If their $1 billion invested makes 20% in one year, that's $200,000,000. I believe that's more than enough especially if they outperformed the S&P 500 index.

Plus we don't need the hedge to reduce volatility because we are not asset managers who manage OTHER people's money. For us, we concentrate to one or two investments, if we want to truly make an amount of money that matters.

I see what you mean, we need to take risks, and trade-offs if we want to be successful, over-allocation of capital only dilutes assets and slows asset growth. This can also be considered if we do not have too much capital and are willing to accept losing everything. But it's not too bad if we diversify with 2 different assets if we have a significant amount of capital. I mean with that capital, you can both invest in bitcoin and buy real estate or open a small business for an extra source of income. In my opinion, having 2 sources of income is still better than relying on only 1. But as you said, it depends on your initial capital and should only add 1 asset other than bitcoin to avoid dilution.

Investing in two closely related assets is actually not "diversification".

[JayJuanGee]

but I still think that bitcoin is a way better investment than property in the coming 10 years..  

I completely agree with you that Bitcoin is better and more profitable. Bitcoin have been around for less than two decades and have experienced astronomical growth in value. With the events lined up for Bitcoin and the popularity it is enjoying, we will see huge and rapid growth in Bitcoin in the new future.

Well, you say popularity, but I am not even sure if it would be very accurate to describe bitcoin as popular, even if it might be "popular" within some segments of society, and even if it seems to get quite a bit of press in recent times in light of it still being a baby in terms of the level of adoption. 

Sure, we have some BIG players who hold a lot of bitcoin, but still overall, I doubt that there is any convincing evidence that bitcoin is experiencing overall adoption levels of greater than 1% of the world's population having exposure to it.. and at the same time, if we consider companies, there are some BIG players talking BIGGEDly about bitcoin, but their ongoing "BiG" talk on the topic does not really seem to reflect in bitcoin's numbers - including but not limited to price... so it seems very questionable in regards to how much actual bitcoin that some of the BIG talkers have.. whether Blackrock and various persons and institutions associated with that and maybe some of the other BIG players who likely do not even have very much exposure to directly owning bitcoin, otherwise it seems that the BTC prices should be reflecting those kinds of acquisition dynamics... so anyhow, my point is to question the use of the term to describe bitcoin as "popular."

[edited out]

Comparing Bitcoin to buying real estate is actually awkward! It really do not make sense. How can you compare two things that cannot be compared. Properties detoriate with time, you will need to spend a large chunk of your profit to maintain the property whereas you will spend nothing to service your Bitcoin... you will sleep, wake up and see your investment increase and multiply. If you calculate how long it will take property investment to give x3, you might probably not be alive to see that happen but in our lifetime, Bitcoin have grown in multiple of several tens.

Anyone who is opportune to know about Bitcoin but still think on the direction of real estate for whatever reason should be seen as unserious.

You make several valid points to differentiate bitcoin and property, but it seems that you are getting caught upon somewhat narrow definitions of property in order to make your points to contrast bitcoin from certain kinds of physical property.. and sure.. no problem with some of that.

At the same time, there are a lot of people making various comparisons of bitcoin to property, including that there are legal definitions that seem to hinge upon bitcoin as a kind of digital property.. and Michael Saylor frequently makes similar kinds of points that rely on descriptions of bitcoin as a kind of property.

Your overall points still do seem to be valid in terms of making some investment decisions that might include concerns about some of the disadvantages of having to maintain physical property and other ways that physical property is likely vulnerable to being taken from you or even being used against you, and even if bitcoin might not be completely removed from those kinds of threats, the digital attributes of bitcoin does cause the attacks upon it to require different tools and maybe even more challenges for the attacker to be successful in terms of removing you from your coins.

I agree that software wallets also have vulnerabilities and which can be penetrated by the hacker to steal the Bitcoin out of those wallets,

In this condition I think it depends on how meticulous you are because in my opinion, as long as we hold the seed correctly in the sense that it is not stored on a PC, Email or google drive and store your seed in writing in a safe place I think for software wallets it is still very secure.

When someone experiences a loss of assets in their software wallet, they need to realise that there must be several things that make it happen because to my knowledge, the wallet cannot be opened when other people do not know your seeds so when asset theft occurs, there must be one thing that makes you negligent in treating your seeds.

You are probably correct overall BigBos, but it still seems problematic to place too much confidence in some of the kinds of storage practices that might be newer and less scrutinized, and of course, there likely is more security in terms of the wallets that are more open source and reviewed, and to the extent that it is not open source, then there might be trust that is placed in the software vendor to not have back doors.

We would almost have to go wallet by wallet (which surely is not the topic of this thread and there are quite a few other forum threads that do go into those kinds of discussions) if we were to want to get into discussions regarding how secure the wallets are and what some of their vulnerabilities might be that go beyond merely users making mistakes...even though users making mistakes can also be a decently BIG factor.

[edited out]

Interesting to see how people embracing the power of Bitcoin over Gold, Ha... Still not a bad idea holding Gold but you don't compare in terms of portability and safety. If your gold should get missing, how do we recover it? one question we ask ourselves. Bitcoin requires only a digital wallet with a backup phrase to recover in any circumstance, so very difficult to loose funds. I also suggest as others did buy and hold Bitcoin for a better future

You do not seem to be contradicting that bitcoin may well be more powerful than gold in a variety of ways that have already been listed and you also listed some of the ways....

It seems that you need to be careful regarding the suggestion that bitcoin is super-easy to keep in your own custody and to make sure that you do not screw something up or that you end up storing your bitcoin with software (or hardware) that has security flaws that were not known to you and perhaps not even known to the public at large when they end up getting exploited.

Another thing is that over the years even some of the storage systems have changed, and there is ongoing developments to change ways that coins are stored, and likely some of those developments will make improvements, but some of the developments also might have security trade offs or even sometimes unknown security holes.

[edited out]

It's not because someone is, to use your word, "poor" that different rules apply to him. What I said was the difference in the amount of capital. If an investor has $100,000,000, he can diversify it to 50 different investments and make 30% out of his capital in one year, the gain would be $30,000,000, which is very good.

Even if you might otherwise be making some valid points, it seems to be going out on a tangent to get too far into those kinds of outrageously BIG numbers, and I doubt that people with that level of capital are participating in threads like this.. or even that people who might be engaging in threads like this should be our attempted audience.. even though surely everyone might have to adjust the numbers to their own situation.

so yeah, maybe we might say poor would be those people who are struggling to figure out how much disposable income they have, but if we might be getting into BIGGER numbers, then we could still use $10 million as the top of our range rather than $100 million.. but more practically, we likely have people struggling to get up to $100k worth of value accumulation, yet we know that people who have been in bitcoin might have had invested less than $10k in the last 10 years.. maybe even as late as 2015 and pretty easily gotten to millionaire status... just to flesh that out, $10k / $250 = 40 BTC  and at today's prices 40 BTC would be worth right around $1.16 million.

Ok.. let me try to work with your $100million number and maybe round it down to $10 million or $1million.

I doubt that diversification allows you to make greater returns, even though it might make profits if some of the assets are invested into items that are growing well... It would likely not make any sense to invest equally into 50 assets, but maybe for the sake of the hypothetical, there could be $2million invested in each asset, but if all (except a handful) of the assets just performed at the normal market rate (6% to 12%), then the outperforming assets would have to really outshine the others in order to make up for the difference in order to get 30% overall return, and again, I doubt that diversification gives you greater returns but instead is an attempt to preserve principle.. and to be conservative and to not be too aggressive, so the more diversification that you have, the more likelihood that even if you have stellar performers, you are going to have low performers that offset them, even though we know sometimes that everything is going up at the same time, but some things are going up more and somethings are going up less.

In contrast, if a pleb who has cash savings of $10,000 uses the same diversification strategy, it would profit only $3,000 for the year, which is also not bad, BUT barely life-changing. It's obviously better to HODL all in Bitcoin and make more than an average of 50% per year, and that's conservative.

Oh gawd.. the more you explain, the worse it gets... even though I do like that you are using something like $10k as a kind of example of how much value that a pleb might have to work with,

but I probably would like it even better if you describe income too.. because a normie/pleb might have $10k at one snap shot in time, and maybe your thinking about it as a snapshot value gets you to try to figure out whether to use all of it to buy bitcoin right now, or what are the various bitcoin price dipping points that you would want to deploy such cash (presuming that it is all available right now)..

so if we are assuming no other investments, and we are presuming that the money is completely available for bitcoin, we still might need to figure out some aspect of what is the anticipated cashflow in the next 6 months?  and even that it is important to know what is the annual income?  Is it $10k or is it $20k or is it $30k?  or some other amount?

At some point, the amount invested may well justify some needs to start to diversify into other investments, even though the greedy lil bastard pleb is focusing on "getting rich quick" right?

Anyhow, is any more money coming in that might be available for bitcoin, or maybe you are presuming that the income stream for this particular pleb/normie is irrelevant because that income stream merely goes towards living expenses and the normie/pleb is just going to otherwise be living his life in the normie/pleb ways because he has already decided that he was ONLY going to be allocating $10k to bitcoin... and yeah a bit vague, but still I can somewhat work with you on it, including our agreement that it is just a matter of starting out with bitcoin, and then figuring out at what point the investment into bitcoin might start to reach a value in which some diversification might start to be justified, and if the $10k invested into bitcoin starts to grow, and maybe does a 3x (which would be $90k per BTC) or maybe a 10x (which would be $300k per BTC), then there might be some point that the person might want to start to diversify, which may or may not mean that selling coins would be the best option, but it might just mean that new cash is used to invest into other things other than bitcoin, since the bitcoin stash seems to be doing sufficiently well, even if maybe overall it is continuing to ongoingly fluctuate in value quite a bit.

Plus I researched how Warren Buffett diversifies his investments as an asset manager and I am Flabbergasted in what I learned.

World famous investor Warren Buffett isn't one to diversify when investing in stocks. In fact, the billionaire has even criticized the idea. As head of Berkshire Hathaway, Buffett's portfolio is focused on a narrow selection of industries -- and the biggest positions are in a handful of stocks.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/07/16/buffett-doesnt-diversify-investments-should-you/

I am familiar with Buffet's ideas about value investing, which tends to result in less diversification, and over the years he has made a lot of statements about diversifying to be a lazy man's way of investing because the one who just blindly diversifies does not likely know what he is doing.

I will say that your use of the Buffet quote is kind of like you arguing against yourself... but whatever, what else is new?

[edited out]

Investing in two closely related assets is actually not "diversification".

Surely, I agree with this point that you made Wind_FURY.

[SmartGold01]

I think that my above example (responding to Yaunfitda) kind of addresses these ideas and even similar scenarios... and you seem to even point out that the cost of property ownership might not be getting you as much "returns" as you might superficially believe them to be capable of.. including 2x in 10 years

Well, while I posited that property is also a good way to invest and this depend entire on choice, comfort and the level of knowledge, I never dispelled the risk and uncertainties. In other words, investment in properties has its own risk and the returns may not even guaranteed. As a matter of fact,there have been several cases of scam such as some bad elements selling same property to several buyers and disappearing, level them to face endless legal battle. A lot of people have lost all their savings to issues like this. Conversely, you can never see something like this with Bitcoin as one is entirely in control of his money.

but I still think that bitcoin is a way better investment than property in the coming 10 years..  

I completely agree with you that Bitcoin is better and more profitable. Bitcoin have been around for less than two decades and have experienced astronomical growth in value. With the events lined up for Bitcoin and the popularity it is enjoying, we will see huge and rapid growth in Bitcoin in the new future.

You are absolutely correct, be it landed property they posses the same risk as well, but most times getting a landed properties through a registered agencies are good to be sure of what kinds of properties one is involving themselves with otherwise, bitcoin investment is the safest and most reliable investment one would ever ventured into. Just as you said people nowadays especially those who aren't technologically inclined might not see the benefits of venturing into digital money because they lack focused and foresight to see the future.

When we always know that future is always pregnant and could give birth to a beautiful things which including the progression of bitcoin and entire cryptocurrency evolving the word without any limits, despite SEC and government trying what they could do to limits the movement and the growth of bitcoin that doesn't mean today bitcoin isn't the best investment to venture. Yes, people still chooses bitcoin as best and the more the days passes bye the more people keeps flooding into cryptocurrency industry especially acquiring huge volume of bitcoin, while those who aren't financially stable keeps accumulating gradually with the amount they think is best for them to releasing at either every months, be it weekly or bi-weekly as the case may be.

While those who chooses landed properties are in one way facing difficulties, and of course this can't be a thing to do away from because there must be a risk to face in as much as its involves buying of properties from one place to another we must definitely face risk. To reduce and limit such risk is better to change narratives and alternatives to venture into bitcoin and have peace of mind and for that, you must be more stringent with your phrase and private keys or the kind of wallet you choses to be storing your investment according to your buying strategies.