Buy the DIP, and HODL!

[SmartGold01]

Along the line her husband isn't that comfortable with the whole working process and asked her to quite because she was only getting used by the company while they boost their income/GDP, and enslaved their worker to keep working for them, their salary were less than 100$ then, per dollars was around NGN 495, even some government workers then were being underpaid especially those we calls civil servants and most of them do not own a personal property due to the minimal amount they are being paid for the month and per year just as you said I can basically say that our country is another good place to point out and the only way to survive is being self employed Yes! Because one can do business and get 10x of the amount being offered by some offices or by some companies, anyone who is working with the government are indirectly or directly enslaving themselves.

Yeah.. some people do not feel that they have all of the skills to employ themselves and to promote their business, so there is a kind of security with getting a job with someone else - except as you suggested that working for someone else (a company) might end up being a kind of trap in which the employees are never really able to get ahead.

Lets do small mathematics:-
If a company or a civil servants are being paid less than $100 (90$ at the rate of 1125 Naira) in my country, finds out how many years it would take them to build a house of at least the minimal 2 bedroom flat.
... Let say their salary is $90 x 1125 = NGN 101,250, then ($90 x 12 = $1,080)
Removing savings let say 30,000 - 101,250 = 71,250 remaining
Then we also remove house rent 30,000 - 71,250 = 41,250 remaining ( Our house rents are being paid yearly)
Removing feeding 20,000- 41,250 remaining 21,250
Then we can say the remaining 21250 is for billings and reserved funds..

So let do the remaining balancing.. main salary 101,250., everything as substracted will be multiple by 12  months (1 year) to know how long it would take any one being paid 101,250 (90$) to own a house.

Savings 30,000 x 12 = 360,000 per year
House rent 30,000 x 12 = 360,000
Feeding (foods stock) 20,000 x 12 = 240,000
Billings 10,000 x 12 = 120,000
Reserved fund 10,250 x 12 = 123,000

Then at least to finish and furniture a two bedroom flat in my country depending on the location is about 15, million for PortHarcourt Rivers State, for Lagos 30 million, for Abuja is 70 million above these depends on the land locations in those states.

We now used the total savings to be divided by each state to know how many years one needs to do a job of 90$ to get a house in my country.
15,000,000 / 360,000 = ~ 42 years, In Portharcourt River's state, 83 years for Lagos while Abuja is 194 years. Lols this till the next generation they won't be able to complete such building in that last place. This is to show how some people are homeless and can't afford any single property of their own. That's why we need a personal business and not to get enslaved by any companies or under paid offices.

Of course, incomes might be able to be combined in a family situation.. but yeah no matter how you slice it, the working for someone else situation can be quite dire in some places if there might not be enough higher paying jobs in  order to bid up salaries, and if people do not feel that they have other opportunities, then they take those kinds of jobs with the belief that they might not have any other options - except like you say, if they are an entrepreneur then it could be possible that they could make a better life for themselves, but there is a lot of self-training and self-resourcefulness that is required from anyone doing their own business..

and frequently when they are first building their businesses, they might not get paid enough to live, but then if they keep building their business, it could well end up getting to the point where they can sustain themselves and then make equal to what they would make with someone else and then later start to make more than what they could have had made working for someone else.  they surely do not start out by making more.. it takes time to build a business, and a decent number of individual businesses end up not being successful.. which is another reason that people end up going with the sure thing that is not very good rather than the uncertain thing that might be better, but might not end up being better.

What I noticed is impatient and then people don't always developed this entrepreneurship to be able to nurture a business to maturity, what we must know and note is that for a business to be successful it takes a minimum of 3 years and maximum of 6 years above otherwise anyone who doesn't exercise patient within the period of nurturing the business might get failed up due to the energy it would consumed for the business to start making profits and starts sustaining their families.

So what some people does is that they goes into apprenticeship to acquire additional skills from those who are dedicated for such businesses and it's mostly common in the eastern Nigeria where they go learning a dedicated skills for specific business, that is why they are known as business magnates. Well lemme note deviated from the solely purpose of the topic. But however, for one to be financially stable s/he should at least has multiple stream income for them to able to hold their bitcoin investment for long without running into financial stress or crisis were they solely depends on the profits of their investment.

[GigaBit]

Investment is not a bed of roses that you invest one day and next day or week you will get the profit.

Every investment has a risk of loss, but at least in Bitcoin we can minimize losses by not selling it when the price goes down. Yes, perhaps among those who are still laypeople, of course, they think that investing in Bitcoin has a bigger risk because the price fluctuates, but the loss is purely due to their own decision. Maybe those who lose are those with weak hands who are unable to survive when the market is down.  such actions could result in them incurring losses if they sell it. In long-term investments, of course they are ready for all the consequences they will face. They must have a target to achieve big profits and not sell when the market is red.

Every investment is risky. We should invest in Bitcoin such money that we can afford to lose. Although we know that Bitcoin is not comparable to all other Shitcoin and gambling coins, it can be a reliable investment, but there is no guarantee that can be given from it, the investor should invest with due caution.
 
If we are successful in investing here by adopting DCA method then surely we can reduce our risk. We know that Bitcoin is a very volatile currency. When I invest all my investment money together in Bitcoin, my wealth may naturally decrease due to the drop in Bitcoin price. We can never guarantee an investment in Bitcoin but the way people's demand for it increases, our investment can turn into a great asset in the long run. But what I want to say again is that the mindset of investing in Bitcoin should be to fulfill long-term dreams and not for the greed of getting more.

I am confident in this aspect that I can hold my investment for a long time because we have multiple sources of income and my father is a government employee so I may not have to sell my investment in case of financial need. Many people may not have the financial freedom I have and the opportunity to hold investments for a long time. There are many people who earn money by working hard and after earning money they invest a part of that money, compared to them it is very easy for me to invest and keep that investment for a long time.  

I respect those investors who work hard and invest in Bitcoin hoping for good things and they try to hold on to that investment for a long time even if they suffer a lot. Those who don't sell their investment despite having many shortages are the real investors.  
Since I will never need to sell the investment, I will try to hold my investment for as long as possible. If I am successful in the investment, I will discuss my investment with my family.

It's good for you that your father is financially sound so you don't have to sell bitcoins but do you have money of your own? If not then you will have problem in investing. Your father may not always support you. Moreover, even after bringing money invested for a long period of time, if you are exposed to losses, you may have to live under stress. Investing in Bitcoin is definitely a good decision but should invest money with own ability or if you suggest someone educate them thoroughly about Bitcoin. Explain its positive aspects as well as its negative aspects. If your father fully understands Bitcoin and plans to hold it for the long term, it will be acceptable. But according to your perspective do DCA regularly, it will give better results.

[ginsan]

Every investment has a risk of loss, but at least in Bitcoin we can minimize losses by not selling it when the price goes down.

That is not how you minimize loss.  You minimize loss by not investing more than you can afford to lose.  So yeah maybe you do not sell on the way down and you ONLY buy when the BTC price goes down, but at the same time, you still could end up losing all your bitcoin, and if you keep buying as the price is dropping, you could end up losing even more and more and more, especially if the BTC price never ends up recovering enough for you to get your investment amount back.

No JJG, You answered it wrong, this is a long-term measurement for the next 20 years and if you measure the level of loss in the next 5 years while the initial investment planning was 20 years of course that is the wrong scenario. Assuming that the loss may only be measured in fiat value and BTC ownership remains intact if you do not sell it. You must provide an idea to support my statement, perhaps it is more appropriate and not look for loopholes to refute it.

Yes, perhaps among those who are still laypeople, of course, they think that investing in Bitcoin has a bigger risk because the price fluctuates, but the loss is purely due to their own decision.

Trading does increase the kinds of risks, and so sometimes the traders could end up either losing all their money faster or they could even lose more than the amount of bitcoin that they buy.. buy using leverage.  Leverage in either direction could contribute to an investment like bitcoin becoming a loser, even though so many people who have ONLY bought bitcoin (and who have ONLY gone long bitcoin) have tended to end up being in profits sooner or later.. especially the longer that they are in bitcoin, and the most that they are risking is 100% of what they put into bitcoin, but so many folks have ended up in profits, and even now if you have been in bitcoin for 2 years or longer then you have pretty good chances of being in profits if you continued to invest along the way, yet of course, there are folks who may well have had front loaded their investment into BTC at prices higher than today (higher than $36,400) and even if some of them continued to buy bitcoin, they still might be in the negative if they invested higher amounts of their value when the BTC price was higher than it is today...

So sometimes it can take 3-4 years or more just to get back in the black, even with a strategy that is ONLY buying BTC and not engaging in other kinds of tactics to trade and/or to leverage.  And, even getting back in the black is not guaranteed, but surely it seems that if someone has invested in such a way that they continue to buy over several years, even if they front-loaded their investment at higher prices, there are decent odds that they are going to get back in the black, even if it is not guaranteed.. and since it is not guaranteed, that is why people have to choose a position size that is not too much and they are willing to lose the amount invested in the event that the BTC price does not return to prices higher than their earlier purchase prices nor to prices that are higher than their average costs per BTC.

Yes of course many made purchases above $40k or $50k at that time and didn't they have a way to stabilize their losses by accumulating at $20k. If they buy at $40k and don't buy at $20k it means they have no principles in the investments they make.

Maybe those who lose are those with weak hands who are unable to survive when the market is down.  such actions could result in them incurring losses if they sell it. In long-term investments, of course they are ready for all the consequences they will face. They must have a target to achieve big profits and not sell when the market is red.

That is one of the problems of buying too much BTC at once (such as lump sum investing and/or front-loading the BTC investment) rather than being prepared to continue to buy on the way down, and realizing that there is a need to buy no more than you can afford to lose.. really afford to lose by being committed to riding the investment to zero if the BTC price keeps going down rather than continuing to go up.

Yes maybe no one wants to lose their money in every investment they make. Bitcoin investments are certainly better than Shitcoin and I have not seen them going to Zero the value of the fiat they invested in unless they act badly in their decisions.

In comparison, Bitcoin can have a greater ROI compared to other investments and this has been proven by the increase in the price of Bitcoin which reached $69k at the previous ATH.

We can see that price history already happened, but it does not prove that BTC prices will return to such prices, even though surely it seems that the investment thesis for bitcoin today is stronger than what it was in 2021, but we might not know all of the facts that we need to know, and maybe there could be developments that contribute towards no more pumps of BTC and the possibility that BTC prices never get back above $37k (for example) or even more difficulties to get back to $69k..

Sure in recent times, I had already made some posts that I believe that bitcoin has something between 70% and 80% odds of reaching $69k or higher before the end of 2025;  however, 70% to 80% odds are still not even close to 100% odds.. that means that in my own thinking there are 20% to 30% odds that $69k will not be reached prior to the end of 2025.  And, hey I am not claiming that I know anything beyond my own opinion being similar to the opinions of others, yet I believe my opinion is stronger and more based in reality than someone who might still be considering that the odds of getting to $69k in the next 2.1 years is close to 95% or even 100%, and so sure you are free to believe whatever you like, but I think that it is a bit unrealistic to be placing too high of odds on various UPside scenarios and completely negating the odds of downside scenarios, even if the odds for up happen to be greater than the odds for down...

The mere fact that the odds are greater does not mean that the scenario with the greater odds is going to end up playing out.  If we are in BTC, we should know those kinds of things and also practice risk management behaviors that account for possible scenarios in which lower probability outcomes might end up playing out rather than the higher probability outcomes.

No one can guarantee that the price of Bitcoin will record a new ATH, but with limited supplies it encourages us that Bitcoin will record a new ATH again someday and it could be within the next 20 years.

So, don't assume that Bitcoin will give you profits quickly. To achieve big profits, we need to be patient and ready to invest in the long term. Buying aggressively and taking advantage of falling price opportunities allows you to profit more efficiently when the market becomes bullish.

I agree with these ideas.. except to the extent that you (ginsan) seem to believe that the long term causes a guaranteed that you are going to end up being profitable, which it does not.

Lol. No one doesn't want profits in every investment they make. Moreover, 20 years is a long time, so are You wasting your time not targeting big profits?

[Odohu]

Every investment is risky. We should invest in Bitcoin such money that we can afford to lose.

If you scroll up a little, you will see where I made this post regarding this statement of "investing what you can afford to lose". This statement appears to be wrong if you give it a critical thought and it makes Bitcoin investment appear like gambling. Like I said before, the right statement should be "invest money you can hold for long, money you don't have urgent need of".

If we begin to guide newcomers in this direction, they would have already developed the heart of hodlers from the very beginning.  Since they know it will not be a quick profit venture, they will have the patience to hold even when price is not rising. Many people who introduce Bitcoin to people made them believe it was a get-rich-quick something, this is basically where the anxiety of panic selling, FOMO, and FUD come from. FUD is usually the last resort when the quick profits they were promised did not come as expected. Hence, it is necessary we make efford to change the narratives by giving people the right information.

The risk of Bitcoin is almost eliminated when enough time is given to the market to yield profits. In other words, Bitcoin is mainly risky for those that want to make profits within a very short period of time. This has be proven by the historic data of Bitcoin and we hope it continues that way.

[JayJuanGee]

Every investment has a risk of loss, but at least in Bitcoin we can minimize losses by not selling it when the price goes down.

That is not how you minimize loss.  You minimize loss by not investing more than you can afford to lose.  So yeah maybe you do not sell on the way down and you ONLY buy when the BTC price goes down, but at the same time, you still could end up losing all your bitcoin, and if you keep buying as the price is dropping, you could end up losing even more and more and more, especially if the BTC price never ends up recovering enough for you to get your investment amount back.

No JJG, You answered it wrong, this is a long-term measurement for the next 20 years and if you measure the level of loss in the next 5 years while the initial investment planning was 20 years of course that is the wrong scenario. Assuming that the loss may only be measured in fiat value and BTC ownership remains intact if you do not sell it. You must provide an idea to support my statement, perhaps it is more appropriate and not look for loopholes to refute it.

We can agree to disagree.  I stand by the points that I made in my earlier post.

Yes, perhaps among those who are still laypeople, of course, they think that investing in Bitcoin has a bigger risk because the price fluctuates, but the loss is purely due to their own decision.

Trading does increase the kinds of risks, and so sometimes the traders could end up either losing all their money faster or they could even lose more than the amount of bitcoin that they buy.. buy using leverage.  Leverage in either direction could contribute to an investment like bitcoin becoming a loser, even though so many people who have ONLY bought bitcoin (and who have ONLY gone long bitcoin) have tended to end up being in profits sooner or later.. especially the longer that they are in bitcoin, and the most that they are risking is 100% of what they put into bitcoin, but so many folks have ended up in profits, and even now if you have been in bitcoin for 2 years or longer then you have pretty good chances of being in profits if you continued to invest along the way, yet of course, there are folks who may well have had front loaded their investment into BTC at prices higher than today (higher than $36,400) and even if some of them continued to buy bitcoin, they still might be in the negative if they invested higher amounts of their value when the BTC price was higher than it is today...

So sometimes it can take 3-4 years or more just to get back in the black, even with a strategy that is ONLY buying BTC and not engaging in other kinds of tactics to trade and/or to leverage.  And, even getting back in the black is not guaranteed, but surely it seems that if someone has invested in such a way that they continue to buy over several years, even if they front-loaded their investment at higher prices, there are decent odds that they are going to get back in the black, even if it is not guaranteed.. and since it is not guaranteed, that is why people have to choose a position size that is not too much and they are willing to lose the amount invested in the event that the BTC price does not return to prices higher than their earlier purchase prices nor to prices that are higher than their average costs per BTC.

Yes of course many made purchases above $40k or $50k at that time and didn't they have a way to stabilize their losses by accumulating at $20k. If they buy at $40k and don't buy at $20k it means they have no principles in the investments they make.

If any of us might have started buying in the $50ks and then stopped buying when the BTC price went down, then we retain our average cost per BTC in the $50ks.  Sure if we keep buying then we lower our cost per BTC, but we do not reduce the cost of the earlier BTC that we bought.

Don't get me wrong, I advocate the continued and ongoing purchasing of BTC, and maybe we are explaining the dynamics of how risk might be reduced differently... But still continuing to buy does not necessarily reduce risk, even though it may well cause the need for the BTC price to go up to be less than it would be if sticking with ONLY the purchases above $50k.

Maybe those who lose are those with weak hands who are unable to survive when the market is down.  such actions could result in them incurring losses if they sell it. In long-term investments, of course they are ready for all the consequences they will face. They must have a target to achieve big profits and not sell when the market is red.

That is one of the problems of buying too much BTC at once (such as lump sum investing and/or front-loading the BTC investment) rather than being prepared to continue to buy on the way down, and realizing that there is a need to buy no more than you can afford to lose.. really afford to lose by being committed to riding the investment to zero if the BTC price keeps going down rather than continuing to go up.

Yes maybe no one wants to lose their money in every investment they make. Bitcoin investments are certainly better than Shitcoin and I have not seen them going to Zero the value of the fiat they invested in unless they act badly in their decisions.

I am a bit unclear of your point here.  You are suggesting that since you have not seen shitcoins go to zero, then bitcoin's chances of going to zero are even less than the odds of shitcoins going to zero.  Your logic seems to be quite a bit less clear than the points that I was making in regards to accounting for negative scenarios in bitcoin and who gives any shits about shitcoins in order to make the points that bitcoin could have negative price scenarios that are outside of your expectations, but you should attempt to account for them, even if they might be lower level scenarios.

In comparison, Bitcoin can have a greater ROI compared to other investments and this has been proven by the increase in the price of Bitcoin which reached $69k at the previous ATH.

We can see that price history already happened, but it does not prove that BTC prices will return to such prices, even though surely it seems that the investment thesis for bitcoin today is stronger than what it was in 2021, but we might not know all of the facts that we need to know, and maybe there could be developments that contribute towards no more pumps of BTC and the possibility that BTC prices never get back above $37k (for example) or even more difficulties to get back to $69k..

Sure in recent times, I had already made some posts that I believe that bitcoin has something between 70% and 80% odds of reaching $69k or higher before the end of 2025;  however, 70% to 80% odds are still not even close to 100% odds.. that means that in my own thinking there are 20% to 30% odds that $69k will not be reached prior to the end of 2025.  And, hey I am not claiming that I know anything beyond my own opinion being similar to the opinions of others, yet I believe my opinion is stronger and more based in reality than someone who might still be considering that the odds of getting to $69k in the next 2.1 years is close to 95% or even 100%, and so sure you are free to believe whatever you like, but I think that it is a bit unrealistic to be placing too high of odds on various UPside scenarios and completely negating the odds of downside scenarios, even if the odds for up happen to be greater than the odds for down...

The mere fact that the odds are greater does not mean that the scenario with the greater odds is going to end up playing out.  If we are in BTC, we should know those kinds of things and also practice risk management behaviors that account for possible scenarios in which lower probability outcomes might end up playing out rather than the higher probability outcomes.

No one can guarantee that the price of Bitcoin will record a new ATH, but with limited supplies it encourages us that Bitcoin will record a new ATH again someday and it could be within the next 20 years.

The upside versus downside scenarios seem to be more nuanced than how you seem to be describing them, but I would be willing to concede that we are arguing over semantics rather than substance, and I see no reason to modify anything that I had already stated on the topic.

So, don't assume that Bitcoin will give you profits quickly. To achieve big profits, we need to be patient and ready to invest in the long term. Buying aggressively and taking advantage of falling price opportunities allows you to profit more efficiently when the market becomes bullish.

I agree with these ideas.. except to the extent that you (ginsan) seem to believe that the long term causes a guaranteed that you are going to end up being profitable, which it does not.

Lol. No one doesn't want profits in every investment they make. Moreover, 20 years is a long time, so are You wasting your time not targeting big profits?

The fact that someone does not consider profits to be guaranteed does not necessarily mean that s/he has NOT invested enough into bitcoin.  On a personal level, by the time, late 2014 came and I kind of figured out my BTC accumulation targets, I was ONLY targeting investing 10% of my investment portfolio into BTC, but by the time we got to the end of 2015, I had gotten to around 13.5% invested, which was higher than my target, but still was not the limit of my capabilities, and surely my BTC profits went up stupendously between 2015 and currently, and surely there was no need to aim for BIGGER profits, even though they would have had been possible, and personally I consider that the balance had worked out pretty well, even though the 86.5% of my investment portfolio from 2015 had ONLY less than doubled in value until now, but my BTC went up more than 37x (accounting for some mistakes that were made along the way too).. but still, part of the point that I am making is that you can invest for various UPside scenarios without even considering upside to be even close to guaranteed, but at the same time to be prepared for various downside scenarios too.

Surely you have been registered on the forum for nearly as long as me, but I hardly can know if you are managing your psychology and your finances in a way that accounts for a variety of scenarios.  Surely we are posting in a public forum, so whatever my comments responding to your points are not personal, and you can do whatever you like in terms of managing your expectations.. and how you prepare for various short, medium and/or longer term scenarios

I get some senses that we are not just arguing about semantics, but I also get a sense that you have differing ideas from me (more than just how we are expressing ourselves) about how to think about probabilities of some things happening in comparison to what ultimately ends up happening.

I am not necessarily going to stop responding when I differ in opinion from another member, and I believe that a point needs to be clarified, but sometimes I am not going to feel any need to repeat  points that I already made, even though sometimes if I am being directly confronted, I might choose to attempt to clarify, to the extent that I might feel that it is possible to clarify without too much just attempting to repeat points that I feel that I had already made more clearly at an earlier time.

[Mia Chloe]

I get some senses that we are not just arguing about semantics, but I also get a sense that you have differing ideas from me (more than just how we are expressing ourselves) about how to think about probabilities of some things happening in comparison to what ultimately ends up happening.

I am not necessarily going to stop responding when I differ in opinion from another member, and I believe that a point needs to be clarified, but sometimes I am not going to feel any need to repeat  points that I already made, even though sometimes if I am being directly confronted, I might choose to attempt to clarify, to the extent that I might feel that it is possible to clarify without too much just attempting to repeat points that I feel that I had already made more clearly at an earlier time.

Apart from the fact that this thread serves as a form of enlightenment as JayJuanGee as well as other forum members have taken their time to give Thier different views on investment in Bitcoin,This thread also serves as a form of modification of wrong ideas of people in investing in the wrong assets.
One is advised to invest in assets that would appreciate over time rather than dip therefore Bitcoin is the easiest choice.one only has to be cautious of his wallet security and private keys and hodl as much as possible to be successful in the Bitcoin ecosystem.

[Btcdeybodi]

Every investment is risky. We should invest in Bitcoin such money that we can afford to lose. Although we know that Bitcoin is not comparable to all other Shitcoin and gambling coins, it can be a reliable investment, but there is no guarantee that can be given from it, the investor should invest with due caution.
 

Often time i tell investors to invest an amout that they can be able to endure if the market doesn't work out the way they expected, due to the fluctuations in the price of stocks in the market it is advisable to buy and Hodl as that's the only way to overcome this market fluctuations.

If we are successful in investing here by adopting DCA method then surely we can reduce our risk. We know that Bitcoin is a very volatile currency. When I invest all my investment money together in Bitcoin, my wealth may naturally decrease due to the drop in Bitcoin price. We can never guarantee an investment in Bitcoin but the way people's demand for it increases, our investment can turn into a great asset in the long run. But what I want to say again is that the mindset of investing in Bitcoin should be to fulfill long-term dreams and not for the greed of getting more.

I these point applying the DCA strategy is the only way forward because from how the market is now buying and hodling is the best option for every investor as no one know if the price of bitcoin will keep increasing or it will eventually dip before the end of the year.

[Roseline492]

 Before starting Bitcoin investment you must have prepared yourself for period of time financially because you know what it will take a and how long for that investment to mature either long term for 6-10 years or short term for monthly /weekly, and so your source of income should be enormous on other to meet up your other demands and need .
Having  a fixed amount set aside from your monthly income is not a bad idea ,so that it will not affect your DCA strategy used in investing.

  Let's take for instance  in building a house ,you just don't stand up  one day and say you want to build without planning for it and knowing how much to set aside for the project, is either you have been saving for it or have already gotten the resources for the building and how long it will take for the completion that will make your target and budget easier for you to pursue and it will be easily achieved and you will build it according to your capacity . The same way goes in investing Bitcoin you do invest above what you can afford .
 But remember investing what you can afford is the best either 5-10% or 30% and more.

Indeed, this is a real example if we look at the life of building an average house, which we rarely see unless it is someone who has enough funds and is an established entrepreneur.

Well, inspired by that too. Maybe when it comes to investing in BTC, people are rarely able to buy at once, for example 1 BTC. Well, with the DCA method this is another way to get there. although little by little and the times are also supportive for now it is still cheap because BTC is still on its way to a new ATH. Possible.

Yeah is obvious that as a less privilege it will be almost impossible buying one whole Bitcoin at a time but however there is a very chance that if you give yourself a target you can achieve it, that's why investment on Bitcoin is not like stock investment that would require you to invest a huge sum of money, but on the contrary even if you don't have much money to invest on Bitcoin but you have a target or goal to have a certain amount of Bitcoin in the future could easily achieve it by adjusting yourself in any amount that suit your financial state and keep accumulating with a targeted number of years you will see yourself as a holder of Bitcoin.

I agree with everything that you said Roseline492 - except that you seem to be suggesting that people can achieve almost anything that they aspire to, yet at the same time you acknowledge that it may well be out of reach for some people to have 1 BTC as their goal... . .not only is it unrealistic for some people, it might not be achievable absent being able to reach a bunch of intermediary goals first.  So if someone is just getting started in bitcoin and the most that they can muster up is the buying of $10 of bitcoin per week or per month, based on what we know right now and we can reasonably project about aspects of the future, they are going to likely need to accomplish a lot of intermediary goals in order to get to 1 BTC in 10 years or even in 20 years, and if they can project that they will be able to get to $100 per week in 5 years and $1,000 per week in 10 years, then maybe they will be able to reach 1 BTC in 20 years... maybe?  There are a lot of unknowns in there and probably not even very good kinds of goals in the first place.

Thank you @JJG for your observation and suggestions, I acknowledge your efforts on guiding us here and other investment ideas you have been sharing, actually I never realized I was sounding a bit contradicting on my Statment above, however the point I was trying to make was that, as someone who is poor it will be very difficult acquiring 1 Bitcoin at a time because the amount could be too high for the person to afford at once but however it could be achieve able if the person set a target of accumulating a bit by bit and within a period of years the possibility of achieving it will be higher.

[JoyMarsha]

Investment is not a bed of roses that you invest one day and next day or week you will get the profit.

Every investor needs to be aware of it, particularly if they are investing in bitcoin. Bitcoin didn't guarantee anyone quick wealth or financial independence, even if they decided to invest in it. Each of us is investing in bitcoin at our own free will. Therefore, we alone are responsible for whatever ultimately happens to our investment. Because of this uncertainty surrounding our future investment in Bitcoin, it is advised that we only invest with money that we can afford to lose.

[ginsan]

~Snip~

No JJG I am not opposing what you said but maybe I conveyed it too concisely with the way I delivered it. Apart from that I support everything you have described and it allows many users to learn the best way to invest in the right way. Indeed, sometimes there is a need for a discussion that might be more interesting and that will give rise to a very good point to take and apply in the investment journey.

Apart from that I also learned all about what you said and I applied it in my long term investments. I want to improve the performance of the investments I have made in Bitcoin and want to correct the mistakes of the past that sold Bitcoin just to gamble. Yes, maybe I will change that as best as possible because I am determined to invest for a long period of time.

[Mayor of ogba]

The more we waiting for the time bitcoin will fall and we buy to hold the more bitcoin price is increasing,  so bitcoin price have it way and I understand that the price of bitcoin should not make someone who wants to invest in bitcoin not to invest in bitcoin because the more bitcoin rise up the more people who wants to invest lose courage to invest in bitcoin,  sometimes I began to think if bitcoin price will continue to be increasing because if bitcoin increased now its people who invested in it before now will be beneficiary to it, let me summarise this, their is no time you invest in bitcoin that's not a perfect time but some of the investors don't know like that, both dip and when bitcoin increased is also a perfect to invest in bitcoin

At this point, you can wait for a very long time before you can see an opportunity to buy Bitcoin at a low, just what is happening to Bitcoin price lately, the price has been around $36k - $37k. If you find yourself in this situation don't wait for the Bitcoin price to drop because you might miss the opportunity of holding a Bitcoin because the price might just be pumping until you lose interest in buying Bitcoin. Since Bitcoin is a long-term hodl you can use the DCA strategy to accumulate your Bitcoin until you can buy the quantity of Bitcoin that you want to hodl. The DCA strategy will help control the volatile part of Bitcoin, even though Bitcoin price declines after you have bought you will not be at much loss because you accumulated your Bitcoin at different prices.

[adultcrypto]

Every investment is risky. We should invest in Bitcoin such money that we can afford to lose.

If you scroll up a little, you will see where I made this post regarding this statement of "investing what you can afford to lose". This statement appears to be wrong if you give it a critical thought and it makes Bitcoin investment appear like gambling. Like I said before, the right statement should be "invest money you can hold for long, money you don't have urgent need of".

If we begin to guide newcomers in this direction, they would have already developed the heart of hodlers from the very beginning.  Since they know it will not be a quick profit venture, they will have the patience to hold even when price is not rising. Many people who introduce Bitcoin to people made them believe it was a get-rich-quick something, this is basically where the anxiety of panic selling, FOMO, and FUD come from. FUD is usually the last resort when the quick profits they were promised did not come as expected. Hence, it is necessary we make efford to change the narratives by giving people the right information.

The risk of Bitcoin is almost eliminated when enough time is given to the market to yield profits. In other words, Bitcoin is mainly risky for those that want to make profits within a very short period of time. This has be proven by the historic data of Bitcoin and we hope it continues that way.

When I read your comment, first thing that came to my mind was to assume someone came to tell me about Bitcoin when I don't know anything about it yet. I am just imagining being told that Bitcoin is a good but I should invest only what I can afford to lose. That alone would have discouraged me and I will never give it a second thought to invest in it. Sincerely you are right that the way we present Bitcoin matters a lot.

I have learnt many things joining the discussion in this thread. My understanding and ideology about Bitcoin have also improved drastically. Basically, I now have a new approach I can use while talking to those who are not much experienced on Bitcoin.

[JayJuanGee]

~Snip~

No JJG I am not opposing what you said but maybe I conveyed it too concisely with the way I delivered it. Apart from that I support everything you have described and it allows many users to learn the best way to invest in the right way. Indeed, sometimes there is a need for a discussion that might be more interesting and that will give rise to a very good point to take and apply in the investment journey.

Apart from that I also learned all about what you said and I applied it in my long term investments. I want to improve the performance of the investments I have made in Bitcoin and want to correct the mistakes of the past that sold Bitcoin just to gamble. Yes, maybe I will change that as best as possible because I am determined to invest for a long period of time.

Sometimes, we might agree with a lot of the same points, but we express ourselves differently, and other times there are actual material differences in what we are saying.  I don't claim to know all of the answers, and sometimes I might even get confused and/or contradict myself in terms of what I thought that I wanted to say or how I am saying it... and some members (to the extent that any of them are reading our posts) might be able to relate more to the ways that you are saying things, and others might be able to relate more to the ways that I am saying things.   

I do believe that it can become confusing to get into describing (or predicting) probabilities for future performance as compared with what might actually end up happening.

For example, if I say that I believe that there is a greater than 75% chance that BTC prices will break the current ATH before the end of 2025, then if I am trying to account for all of the possible outcomes, then I have to try figure out how to frame the remaining less than 25%.  Since we are talking in terms of breaking the high, then we can maybe figure out how we might want to figure some of the current ranges. 

So maybe I could say that I believe that there is a 10% chance that BTC will not break $40k before the end of 2025, and then I believe that there is a less than 15% chance that BTC will top out somewhere between $40k and $69k before the end of 2025. 

That kind of framing would cover all of the possibilities, but it still does not mean that I am right in my numbers since I am kind of guessing a bit, too... so if some of the facts change or maybe some of my ideas change, then I might have to adjust my predictive numbers, but since there surely is quite a bit of time between now and the end of 2025, I could likely stick with my predictive numbers and framework for quite a long time (maybe 6 months or longer) before I might feel any need to adjust the numbers that I have just given..

Now if we get to the middle of 2025 and the price had not yet gone above $50k, I might start to get worried, especially if BTC prices were then around current prices, so it seems that other parts of my whole view of bitcoin is playing out differently than I had expected... but I still might feel that I need to stick to my guns with my earlier prediction, even though the price had already gone past $40k, so that 10% would need to be removed from any revised prediction since at some point between now and mid 2025, the BTC price had ended up going above $40k.

Another thing is that once the whole of 2025 passes, and if the BTC price did not end up going any higher than $50k, then my 15% scenario would have had ended up playing out, and so then that 15% scenario ended up becoming 100% since that is what ended up playing out.  So if I were to try to make another prediction regarding what BTC might do in 2026 and 2027, then I would have to take into account what actually ended up happening, rather than what had been my earlier greater than 75% scenario did not end up playing out but ended up being 0% in terms of what had actually ended up happening.

Maybe it is not a great example, yet it does end up being a bit gloomy and doomy if facts were to end up playing out in the minority case of my current prediction, but it still should be something that I am prepared for both financially and psychologically, even if I consider both the combination of no higher than $40k and topping in the $40k to $69k to be less than 25%.

We can do this for down scenarios too., but I don't really like to talk about the minority cases, but instead focus on the current more likely direction, even though the down scenarios should be contained within how much value that we place into BTC and also the various ways that we are psychologically and financially prepared for those down scenarios, even though they are part of our view of events that is less likely to play out.  We could really get reckt financially and psychologically if we did not account for the negative scenarios... but even though we are prepared for them, we might not need to put very much of our finances into such negative scenarios.

Have "we" beaten this to death enough, yet?  I understand that guys are likely going to get overly enthusiastic, and surely I hate to be the one who is saying to be careful if you are putting 100% into up.. or even using language that seems to describe that you are overly prepared for UP without being prepared for both, whether we are talking short, medium or long term.. even going out 20-30 years... if BTC were to perform badly for the next 10 years, for example, it may not mean that it has to fix itself so that in the long term it performs positively.  We have to assess what is going on at various times along the way to attempt to figure out if there might be parts of our investment thesis that are not playing out as we had expected and if we might need to change our investments based on such or if we stick with the same original plan that we had.

[Out of mind]

Investment is not a bed of roses that you invest one day and next day or week you will get the profit.

Every investor needs to be aware of it, particularly if they are investing in bitcoin. Bitcoin didn't guarantee anyone quick wealth or financial independence, even if they decided to invest in it. Each of us is investing in bitcoin at our own free will. Therefore, we alone are responsible for whatever ultimately happens to our investment. Because of this uncertainty surrounding our future investment in Bitcoin, it is advised that we only invest with money that we can afford to lose.

It is true that Bitcoin never pays a person quickly and does not provide financial solvency. Rather, if you want to get financial freedom, you have to invest in Bitcoin and keep it for a long time, but you will get profit. I think it is foolish to invest as you wish, if you understand the position of the market during it is definitely possible to accumulate a good wealth for the future. Also, I think it's better if you hold BTC for future and long term investment. That said, we exactly invest with the amount of money we can afford to lose, but basically we invest because we can hope for Bitcoin. And currently we are so confident in bitcoin that we will never lose money by keeping it here, but it will be our main purpose to make profit by holding only BTC.

[Iranus]

Investment is not a bed of roses that you invest one day and next day or week you will get the profit.

Every investment has a risk of loss, but at least in Bitcoin we can minimize losses by not selling it when the price goes down. Yes, perhaps among those who are still laypeople, of course, they think that investing in Bitcoin has a bigger risk because the price fluctuates, but the loss is purely due to their own decision. Maybe those who lose are those with weak hands who are unable to survive when the market is down.  such actions could result in them incurring losses if they sell it. In long-term investments, of course they are ready for all the consequences they will face. They must have a target to achieve big profits and not sell when the market is red.

Every investment is risky. We should invest in Bitcoin such money that we can afford to lose. Although we know that Bitcoin is not comparable to all other Shitcoin and gambling coins, it can be a reliable investment, but there is no guarantee that can be given from it, the investor should invest with due caution.
 
If we are successful in investing here by adopting DCA method then surely we can reduce our risk. We know that Bitcoin is a very volatile currency. When I invest all my investment money together in Bitcoin, my wealth may naturally decrease due to the drop in Bitcoin price. We can never guarantee an investment in Bitcoin but the way people's demand for it increases, our investment can turn into a great asset in the long run. But what I want to say again is that the mindset of investing in Bitcoin should be to fulfill long-term dreams and not for the greed of getting more.

Everything has risks, but any success requires trade-offs. So I think we should not focus too much on the risk but instead we should be ready to face it if it really happens. Once we decide to invest, we should be optimistic about our choice because thinking too much about risks will make us afraid and miss opportunities. Just like every time the price of bitcoin drops, many people fear it will drop even further and do not dare to buy when the price drops. And finally, they miss the opportunity to buy because the price does not continue to fall but increases again.

Think carefully and make a decision before investing. Once you have decided to invest, you should believe in your choice and stick to the plan you have set, don't think too much about risks.

I am confident in this aspect that I can hold my investment for a long time because we have multiple sources of income and my father is a government employee so I may not have to sell my investment in case of financial need. Many people may not have the financial freedom I have and the opportunity to hold investments for a long time. There are many people who earn money by working hard and after earning money they invest a part of that money, compared to them it is very easy for me to invest and keep that investment for a long time.  

I respect those investors who work hard and invest in Bitcoin hoping for good things and they try to hold on to that investment for a long time even if they suffer a lot. Those who don't sell their investment despite having many shortages are the real investors.  
Since I will never need to sell the investment, I will try to hold my investment for as long as possible. If I am successful in the investment, I will discuss my investment with my family.

It's good for you that your father is financially sound so you don't have to sell bitcoins but do you have money of your own? If not then you will have problem in investing. Your father may not always support you. Moreover, even after bringing money invested for a long period of time, if you are exposed to losses, you may have to live under stress. Investing in Bitcoin is definitely a good decision but should invest money with own ability or if you suggest someone educate them thoroughly about Bitcoin. Explain its positive aspects as well as its negative aspects. If your father fully understands Bitcoin and plans to hold it for the long term, it will be acceptable. But according to your perspective do DCA regularly, it will give better results.

He was fortunate to be born into a wealthy family, but relying on his parents is not something to brag about here. I like people who make their own money and are responsible for their lives rather than relying on their parents. Let's make our parents proud of us, don't let them worry more when we grow up.

[adultcrypto]

It is true that Bitcoin never pays a person quickly and does not provide financial solvency. Rather, if you want to get financial freedom, you have to invest in Bitcoin and keep it for a long time, but you will get profit. I think it is foolish to invest as you wish, if you understand the position of the market during it is definitely possible to accumulate a good wealth for the future. Also, I think it's better if you hold BTC for future and long term investment. That said, we exactly invest with the amount of money we can afford to lose, but basically we invest because we can hope for Bitcoin. And currently we are so confident in bitcoin that we will never lose money by keeping it here, but it will be our main purpose to make profit by holding only BTC.

On the contrary, Bitcoin can actually pay quickly depending on when you join the market and what will be the prevailing market condition after you join. There are people that bought Bitcoin when it dip below $18k. They were I profits within a short time because Bitcoin did not stay long there. Same thing for those that bought below $30k before the surge that took the price above $30k where it has remained till date.

You might be lucky to buy Bitcoin today and the next day, it gain over $5k. This is a confirmation that Bitcoin can pay quickly.

However, our target is not the quick profits but how to buy and hold for long to make bigger gains.

[Mayor of ogba]

Even though the price of Bitcoin is on the rise now, I will still stick with my DCA strategy to accumulate the quantity of Bitcoin I planned to accumulate and hodl for a long term. I will not rush with a lump sum buy in Bitcoin just because I'm afraid Bitcoin price will not dump for me to buy at a lower price through the DCA strategy. There is still enough time for me to achieve the quantity of Bitcoin I want to accumulate through DCA even though the price of Bitcoin is at $36k because Bitcoin can only set a new ATH when Bitcoin halving has taken place and Bitcoin halving is estimated to happen in April 2024.

[cryptoknightt]

You have no other option. I joke about the whalecumulators, but what else can we plebs do? Buy the dip, and HODL! You do not want to end up empty handed on the next cycle, https://twitter.com/misir_mahmudov/status/1118243131584065537

Always zoom out if in doubt, https://bitcoin.zorinaq.com/price/

Yes, that's right, we just have to buy and hold, although some people prefer to make short-term trades, but that will be different from holding and not doing anything. The risk is more minimal, we know the coin we are buying is the best, namely Bitcoin, so no You need to worry because in the long term the price will continue to rise.

[salad daging]

Even though the price of Bitcoin is on the rise now, I will still stick with my DCA strategy to accumulate the quantity of Bitcoin I planned to accumulate and hodl for a long term. I will not rush with a lump sum buy in Bitcoin just because I'm afraid Bitcoin price will not dump for me to buy at a lower price through the DCA strategy. There is still enough time for me to achieve the quantity of Bitcoin I want to accumulate through DCA even though the price of Bitcoin is at $36k because Bitcoin can only set a new ATH when Bitcoin halving has taken place and Bitcoin halving is estimated to happen in April 2024.

Usually with the DCA strategy there is no need to look at the price is up or down you need to consistently do every week/month then that is the DCA strategy, while for the lumpsum method then you need to wait for the price to drop because this is DIP and have to provide more money to buy at once, sometimes this way is a little more complicated even though it is not the case but the DCA method is more appropriate but you need to remember not to look at any price.

Of course you still have a lot of time from now on to start DCA, sometimes with the halving happening in April for example it will not directly become ATH there must be another moment with a certain time will reach it, if you want to skip the cycle now it is much better because your investment will be longer with a range of 4 years more, but determine with the plan you make.

As much as possible now you should be able to implement strategies with DCA consistently to continue to grow your portfolio.

[JayJuanGee]

I am confident in this aspect that I can hold my investment for a long time because we have multiple sources of income and my father is a government employee so I may not have to sell my investment in case of financial need. Many people may not have the financial freedom I have and the opportunity to hold investments for a long time. There are many people who earn money by working hard and after earning money they invest a part of that money, compared to them it is very easy for me to invest and keep that investment for a long time.  

I respect those investors who work hard and invest in Bitcoin hoping for good things and they try to hold on to that investment for a long time even if they suffer a lot. Those who don't sell their investment despite having many shortages are the real investors.  
Since I will never need to sell the investment, I will try to hold my investment for as long as possible. If I am successful in the investment, I will discuss my investment with my family.

It's good for you that your father is financially sound so you don't have to sell bitcoins but do you have money of your own? If not then you will have problem in investing. Your father may not always support you. Moreover, even after bringing money invested for a long period of time, if you are exposed to losses, you may have to live under stress. Investing in Bitcoin is definitely a good decision but should invest money with own ability or if you suggest someone educate them thoroughly about Bitcoin. Explain its positive aspects as well as its negative aspects. If your father fully understands Bitcoin and plans to hold it for the long term, it will be acceptable. But according to your perspective do DCA regularly, it will give better results.

He was fortunate to be born into a wealthy family, but relying on his parents is not something to brag about here. I like people who make their own money and are responsible for their lives rather than relying on their parents. Let's make our parents proud of us, don't let them worry more when we grow up.

It seems that even if someone is fortunate in a variety of ways, it seems better to be focusing on what kinds of things that they are doing to learn and/or or to be able to be productive and helpful to others rather than just telling us how they are already getting free money and therefore they are  putting it into bitcoin... Sure if any of us were in such a situation, then we do have some luxuries of building a bitcoin stash for free. 

Some folks in bitcoin did get rich from bitcoin, so it likely is the case that some folks in bitcoin never did have to work for any of their wealth if they actually came from well-to-do families, but it seems doubtful that any of those kinds of stories are helpful unless they might be talking about various kinds of ways that a person might deal with cashflows.  Even well-to-do people do have to either engage in their organizing of their finances unless they have accountants that do those things for them, and then maybe the main kinds of learnings would be how to manage other people, which does not really seem to be a very relatable topic for many of us who have engaged in various kinds of work for our value and maybe even quite a bit of back and forth learning how to manage and balance our BTC holdings.

It is true that Bitcoin never pays a person quickly and does not provide financial solvency. Rather, if you want to get financial freedom, you have to invest in Bitcoin and keep it for a long time, but you will get profit. I think it is foolish to invest as you wish, if you understand the position of the market during it is definitely possible to accumulate a good wealth for the future. Also, I think it's better if you hold BTC for future and long term investment. That said, we exactly invest with the amount of money we can afford to lose, but basically we invest because we can hope for Bitcoin. And currently we are so confident in bitcoin that we will never lose money by keeping it here, but it will be our main purpose to make profit by holding only BTC.

On the contrary, Bitcoin can actually pay quickly depending on when you join the market and what will be the prevailing market condition after you join. There are people that bought Bitcoin when it dip below $18k. They were I profits within a short time because Bitcoin did not stay long there. Same thing for those that bought below $30k before the surge that took the price above $30k where it has remained till date.

You might be lucky to buy Bitcoin today and the next day, it gain over $5k. This is a confirmation that Bitcoin can pay quickly.

However, our target is not the quick profits but how to buy and hold for long to make bigger gains.

Even if the BTC price dips, many of us are not going to have enough money to be ready, willing and able to invest all of our life time investment into bitcoin at one time.  Therefore, frequently the investing into bitcoin remains an ongoing process rather than a one time lump sum investment, even if we might try to invest lump sum, there might be several entry points along the way of building a stash.

Surely, there are some folks who might either be experienced investors and/or that they have already built up a large investment portfolio and they may well be ready, willing and able to move their whole allocation into bitcoin in a lump sum, but those are likely the exceptions rather than the rule, and I doubt that we are wanting to appeal to have discussions with and/or about experienced and rich investors rather than discussing the various ways that normies get into bitcoin.. which is overwhelmingly going to be through relatively small injections of value periodically, whether that is weekly, monthly, quarterly or some other time increments that also depend on cashflow and expense situations of the BTC accumulators.

Even though the price of Bitcoin is on the rise now, I will still stick with my DCA strategy to accumulate the quantity of Bitcoin I planned to accumulate and hodl for a long term. I will not rush with a lump sum buy in Bitcoin just because I'm afraid Bitcoin price will not dump for me to buy at a lower price through the DCA strategy. There is still enough time for me to achieve the quantity of Bitcoin I want to accumulate through DCA even though the price of Bitcoin is at $36k because Bitcoin can only set a new ATH when Bitcoin halving has taken place and Bitcoin halving is estimated to happen in April 2024.

There is nothing wrong with considering making various adjustments to your BTC accumulation strategies, even though surely many of us have acknowledged that it is quite difficult to know which way the BTC price is going to go, so that is part of the justification for ongoingly buying BTC on a regular basis rather than letting too much fiat build up.  But if your fiat is building up, then you have to decide if you are going to hold some of that for buying on dips or if you are just going to buy right away with it or add it to your DCA amount and spread such purchases over some given period of time.

Personally, I do prefer to consider all three categories of accumulating if I either receive some additional cashflow or if I realize that I have more cash onhand than I thought that I had needed.  For example, if I am going through my monthly expenses, I might have a certain quantity of money in various accounts that are used to pay various expenses, but then after calculating the various expenses for that month or even trajectoring out for further months,  I might come to realize that there may end up being some extra money in the account, so then having that extra money would justify considering: 1) lump sum right away (or various lump sums), 2) allocate for buying on dips that can be set at various intervals depending on buy orders that might already exist (money that is already allocated for buying on dips) and/or 3) DCA over a certain period of time with various amounts.  For example, if I were to find that I have $1,200 extra then I could allocate $400 to each of the three categories or I could allocate $600 to buying on dips,  $200 to buying right away and $600 to DCA.  There are a lot of variations and discretion based on what has already been allocated to the categories and a variety of other considerations (including the ones I outline in this post) that might not ONLY be about BTC price expectations even though price expectations is one of the considerations.