Buy the DIP, and HODL!

[ChocolateBitcoinK]

In fact, I see Bitcoin's volatility as what makes it possible to generate significant profits, making it different from fiat currency. Many people talk about this, not because they're afraid or disagree with it. Rather, it's an opportunity to profit. Volatility is a topic of discussion, and it's relevant to both long-term and short-term investors. However, I suggest that if you already know and understand Bitcoin volatility, it's better to invest long-term, as it will be much more profitable.

Volatility is usually more often exploited by short-term investors. Long-term investors who are still happy to buy a certain amount of Bitcoin usually don't care much about the price, except for those who still don't have a large amount of Bitcoin and are still focused on accumulating it by buying it regularly. I've also noticed this sometimes, but the actions of large investors and small investors under various circumstances are always different, even though their ultimate goal is almost the same: to profit. Therefore, advice should also be different for these two types of investors, even though they both focus on buying and profiting over a certain period.

Everyone tries to profit from Bitcoin with different perspectives, some short-term or some long-term. But the main thing is to understand the possibilities, we should usually invest by using the strategy that has low risk and good potential. But if we decide to use a strategy where the probability of loss is higher than success, then of course we are making the wrong decision which can cause us losses. There is no strategy through which we can definitely profit, but still we must warn ourselves in such a way that you have to choose the more success potential strategy and invest correctly with that strategy.

[Showlove01]

You seems confused and you are discouraging yourself and newbie not to invest in Bitcoin and thinking you are saying the right thing, maybe you have forgotten that as an investor you don't have any business with how market move so why talking about price swing as an investor? It is pretty obvious you don't have an idea on what Bitcoin is all about and how investors should follow it. Before someone will start Bitcoin investment journey that person should have the basic knowledge of what Bitcoin is and you don't need strength to invest what you need is your discretionary.

I am pretty sure he is a trader that times the market to buy bitcoin,otherwise he shouldn't have any business with price swings or price fluctuation . Instead he should focus on having discretionary income that he would used to invest in bitcoin. Investing in bitcoin should only be when he has met all of his basic needs, and the leftover cash is his discretionary income which should be use to invest in bitcoin. Investing using DCA would make his investment be stress free and he wouldn't have business with timing the market anymore.

Investing in Bitcoin with your DCA when you properly understand the value of Bitcoin and the price fluctuations may enable you accumulate more Bitcoin with your DCA when Bitcoin experience bearish season than during bullish season hence understanding how the market works is still not a bad idea rather it will add more value to investment and possibly good outcomes during bullish season.

There you go sounding like a trader, you don't have any business with price fluctuations as an investor who is ready to invest in Bitcoin and hold for a long term. Knowing that Bitcoin is a volatile asset is enough for an investor instead of wanting to understand about price fluctuations if I may ask are you intending to trader it? Because only traders does, they try to understand the dynamics in price fluctuations so they can outsmart the market but sad enough that they always get themselves fucked up most times.

[Abelly]

In fact, I see Bitcoin's volatility as what makes it possible to generate significant profits, making it different from fiat currency. Many people talk about this, not because they're afraid or disagree with it. Rather, it's an opportunity to profit. Volatility is a topic of discussion, and it's relevant to both long-term and short-term investors. However, I suggest that if you already know and understand Bitcoin volatility, it's better to invest long-term, as it will be much more profitable.

Volatility is usually more often exploited by short-term investors. Long-term investors who are still happy to buy a certain amount of Bitcoin usually don't care much about the price, except for those who still don't have a large amount of Bitcoin and are still focused on accumulating it by buying it regularly. I've also noticed this sometimes, but the actions of large investors and small investors under various circumstances are always different, even though their ultimate goal is almost the same: to profit. Therefore, advice should also be different for these two types of investors, even though they both focus on buying and profiting over a certain period.

Everyone tries to profit from Bitcoin with different perspectives, some short-term or some long-term. But the main thing is to understand the possibilities, we should usually invest by using the strategy that has low risk and good potential. But if we decide to use a strategy where the probability of loss is higher than success, then of course we are making the wrong decision which can cause us losses. There is no strategy through which we can definitely profit, but still we must warn ourselves in such a way that you have to choose the more success potential strategy and invest correctly with that strategy.

If we want to Profit from Bitcoin, We must first do Dca, so it is wise to choose things that have low risk and High Probability of Success, but if we do not take Risks, Nothing Can be done, But the probability of success is high.Risk Management And Discipline Are the Keys to longTerm Survival.

[Furious 7]

You have been registered on the forum for more than 10 years Furious 7 - so it may well be the case that you have been able to accumulate a decent amount of bitcoin.

Many members participating in this thread and similar threads around the forum may not have even had a whole cycle that they have been able to focus on accumulating bitcoin.

And, sure, even shorter lengths of time may well see improvements both in terms of building the bitcoin stash but also in regards to strengthening cashflow management practices/systems.

I've been on this forum for quite a long time but to see the benefits felt seems to be only in the last few years because before I was quite blind and stuck in some junk projects that didn't get anything after a few years of experiments but for now it is different where for now after at least more or less 2 cycles of being in bitcoin it will certainly be quite beneficial.

As for those who are new and maybe not even one cycle they are here need to be considered that sometimes sanity will lose to lust especially when seeing an increase of just a few percent and that as much as possible must be won if we want to focus on long-term goals.

Although maybe for this aspect we only just got a few percent profit (even much bigger) for a temporary size in the investments we have made in the last few years but it is already visible that profits are in sight, it's just how to manage our patience, persistence and greed because in this case most of them especially the fomo always try to leave when the profit is only a few percent. If it is a long-term goal, it is clear that things like this are not too advisable, especially since there is no guarantee that after leaving we can re-enter easily and this is where our patience is tested.

Yep.  You make some good points, and it seems to me that even if guys are accumulating bitcoin for only a few years, they likely are spending time learning about bitcoin so that they might be able to become more convinced that it is better to invest for the long term, such as longer than 10 years... or whenever they might be able to determine that they have reached a status of accumulating enough or more than enough bitcoin so that they might be able to start something like sustainable withdrawal.

This depends on the seriousness and interest of the person because even though there are those who have been in several years even longer when they are not serious and not interested in bitcoin in the end it will be the same but indeed when they feel the impact especially feel this will be profitable for the future they will be very stupid if they just miss bitcoin.

If indeed they are quite sure of what they are doing then actually 2 cycles or even more than that (because I am sure that in this part of the world there must be those who still hold bitcoin from the initial period) then indeed they have realized that the positive impact they feel is really happening with bitcoin.

[Figerland Shamrock]

On the process of accumulating and thinking about getting more volumes. They can set up their own goals whether they like to hold it for 4 or proceed to 10+ more years then reach to the point on what year they are comfortable to think about making their withdrawals. This is not just all about buying BTC, but rather its all about shaping their personal strategy and knowledge as they go with this option.

I think continuing for up to 10 years would be more ideal especially if you want to get a large volume in bitcoin accumulation, then 10 years should have reached the target and it is considered for withdrawal.
10 years is not a short time you may need to be consistent because this is one so that you can reach the goal there, maybe people will feel bored but rest assured when it all reaches your goal you will be the winner where because you can last up to 10 years.
Try to imagine 10 years maybe the price of bitcoin is already $500,000. We have collected a lot of bitcoins considering withdrawal is not a problem.

[JayJuanGee]

Although maybe for this aspect we only just got a few percent profit (even much bigger) for a temporary size in the investments we have made in the last few years but it is already visible that profits are in sight, it's just how to manage our patience, persistence and greed because in this case most of them especially the fomo always try to leave when the profit is only a few percent. If it is a long-term goal, it is clear that things like this are not too advisable, especially since there is no guarantee that after leaving we can re-enter easily and this is where our patience is tested.

Yep.  You make some good points, and it seems to me that even if guys are accumulating bitcoin for only a few years, they likely are spending time learning about bitcoin so that they might be able to become more convinced that it is better to invest for the long term, such as longer than 10 years... or whenever they might be able to determine that they have reached a status of accumulating enough or more than enough bitcoin so that they might be able to start something like sustainable withdrawal.

Sometimes guys might not really know about their goals or their target, and they can also study and figure out those kinds of matters as they are continuing to build up their bitcoin stack size.

This is  good way to look on those points, since even if they just start buying bitcoin for few years, they provably learn more valuable things that can push them to think about its more better to deal with Bitcoin for long term rather than aiming to hit short term profit which is not really sustainable.

On the process of accumulating and thinking about getting more volumes. They can set up their own goals whether they like to hold it for 4 or proceed to 10+ more years then reach to the point on what year they are comfortable to think about making their withdrawals. This is not just all about buying BTC, but rather its all about shaping their personal strategy and knowledge as they go with this option.

I frequently suggest that newbies to bitcoin can get started investing into bitcoin and starting from whatever position they are; however, I also presume that any person with common sense is going to want to NOT lose money and their investing into bitcoin will incentivize them to learn about bitcoin and also to learn more about the strengthening of their cashflow management systems/practices. 

It can be difficult to put in the time to learn, whether that is 3-4 hours per week or some other amount of time that might be dedicated to learning about bitcoin and/or learning about cashflow management.

It could well be that guys still end up making mistakes to either slow down or discontinue their bitcoin accumulation and/or to sell too many of their BTC too soon. I am not claiming it is easy to both accumulate BTC and then to manage bitcoin holdings once they have been accumulated, and surely guys will get impatient and/or distracted by the price,  so they end up making mistakes.

I don't know how to help guys from stopping to make mistakes, even though it seems that if they are investing into bitcoin, then they would be incentivized to learn about it and also to learn about how to strengthen their cashflow management systems/practices.

In fact, I see Bitcoin's volatility as what makes it possible to generate significant profits, making it different from fiat currency. Many people talk about this, not because they're afraid or disagree with it. Rather, it's an opportunity to profit. Volatility is a topic of discussion, and it's relevant to both long-term and short-term investors. However, I suggest that if you already know and understand Bitcoin volatility, it's better to invest long-term, as it will be much more profitable.

Volatility is usually more often exploited by short-term investors. Long-term investors who are still happy to buy a certain amount of Bitcoin usually don't care much about the price, except for those who still don't have a large amount of Bitcoin and are still focused on accumulating it by buying it regularly. I've also noticed this sometimes, but the actions of large investors and small investors under various circumstances are always different, even though their ultimate goal is almost the same: to profit. Therefore, advice should also be different for these two types of investors, even though they both focus on buying and profiting over a certain period.

I doubt that profits is necessarily a goal for everyone, even though profits are likely assumed.  Bitcoin has financial sovereignty and options attributes.  So maybe there are some bitcoiners who merely presume profits so they are shooting for higher level goals?

You frame it in terms of profits makes it sound like a trade, yet if guys are investing for life into bitcoin, then they seem to be beyond profits, especially after the first cycle... and sure profits are there and sure profits are likely even compounding, but does it matter if a guy is in 30x profits or 110x profits? or some other amount? Can't you see that the asset is profitable, but it goes beyond ideas of simple profits that might cause trading rather than holding.

You are likely referrng to short term investors, even though they are likely traders.

So if a person has a timeline less than 4 years, they are likely a trader rather than an investor.

Maybe regular investors into bitcoin would have timelines that are greater than 10 years, yet if someone has a timeline that it shorter, such as 4-10 years, then maybe he has such timeline based on age and/or health considerations that don't allow a longer timeline.

If you are getting in bitcoin and just planning to get out then you are likely a long term trader rather than an investor.

Sure, we could be arguing about semantics, yet it seems to me that you are struggling to consider bitcoin in investing terms, even though you are using the word investor.

Maybe you could describe some scenarios to illustrate your points?  I get the sense that you are using a faulty framework and you are trying to describe everything in terms of profits, which is likely going  to inspire trading rather than accumulating, HODLing and then maybe managing your holdings once you get to an overaccumulation status.

You are never going to get to overaccumulation status because you don't know what it is and you don't know how to manage it.  you think that if you reach overaccumulation status then what do you do?  Sell to get your profits?  Hold on to get more profits later?  Those ideas make little sense, and they seem to pervert better ways to describe the ways of managing bitcoin holdings, including betting to overaccumulation status... which also is not dependent on profits but instead dependent on how many bitcoin you have accumulated.

Another thing is that you have been here since April 2017. Hopefully, you have figured out how to accumulate enough bitcoin during that time, instead of fucking around thinking about your profits, since that is likely not going to get you to overaccumulation status, even though in more than 8.5 years, you could have had been close to reaching overaccumulation status if you had been focused on accumulating bitcoin rather than your dollar profits.

Just imagine if you had been investing $100 per week since April 2017.  You would have had invested about $46k and accumulated about 4.13 BTC, which surely would be a good place to be right now. Hopefully, whatever you have been doing in regards to your focus on profits has been able to at least match that level of performance.

For short-term investors, they tend to see opportunities in the rise and fall of Bitcoin prices in a relatively short time and take good moment with the volatility.

Isn't that tantamount to trading? Why make it an investor because at the end of the day such a concept is still trading and even if we want to describe ourselves as an investor with the same concept it still cannot be because it is clearly trading.

It is conditions like this that sometimes become wrong in the perception of some people as if they are investors but instead it makes them traders because of the overlapping understanding between investors and traders.

In addition, we need to remember that in this case (investing in bitcoin) risk management also needs to be considered, when we only enter and exit in the market it actually makes your risk even greater and conditions like that even though it might show a profit at the end but in a few other moments it will actually make you lose and forever will be like that because sooner or later when someone is in trading (or you call it short-term investment) the results will not be much different where losses are always felt.

You make a decently good point here, Raflesia.  When a person is investing, he is surely taking chances to invest in bitcoin and to manage his cashflows in a way that he is not overinvesting or underinvesting in bitcoin.

On the other hand, when a guy is trading bitcoin, it is like he doesn't know what he is doing, since he is getting in and then out and then in, and so there are so many chances to screw up such a great investment like bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a great place to put value,  yet there are some folks getting in and then out and then in and then there is almost no way to actually benefit from the value of bitcoin in a meaningful way, even if short-term dollar profits might happen from time to time with such behaviors.

That is true, but what I want to emphasize here is not as if this is a risk-free investment and everything is guaranteed because even though we are in bitcoin but we still have to realize from the start that whatever the investment everything has a risk, especially bitcoin which is quite volatile.
But some that I can see even some who discuss in this thread they seem to forget and see bitcoin as risk-free but the fact is not like that.

I know and even now I still feel the benefits are clearly obtained especially when looking at past history and what I have done in recent years of course I have benefited temporarily until now but that does not mean we have to believe that this is risk-free because being in bitcoin will not be like that at any time.

Risk and volatility are not the same thing.
I do like to say that one of the most inevitable things about bitcoin is its volatility, so if we know that volatility is inevitable, then doesn't a known factor become less of a risk?

I think equating volatility to risk is a sloppy way of talking about risk.

This is not meant to make it seem as if volatility and risk are the same thing but in this case I want to show that the timeframe is also important because the longer we are in bitcoin, the less risk we will face because the volatility in bitcoin is very large and when we are here for only daily, weekly, or even monthly as traders do, the greater the risk we will face.

On the other hand, it is important for us to realize that when in bitcoin it is clear that it is not a guarantee tool (as we have agreed in the discussion before this) because it depends on us alone who ensure in ways and steps that have been arranged with the plans we have including money management which of course must be considered as well.

Even if you were meaning to say something like long term investing diminishes the likely impact of ongoing short term volatility, so then long term investing lessens the risk of short term volatility, you still said it in a confusing way that seemed to equate volatility and risk.

By the way if we already know that bitcoin's price is very volatile, then there should be ways that we can deal with that, which would include creating a budget that accounts for such volatility (so then whether we invest $40 per week, $100 per week or some other amount, then the amount that we choose may well relate to our thoughts about bitcoin's volatility), right?

I agree with you on this because sometimes some of us are too focused on investing but don't take the budget into account. Because the ideal investment scheme is definitely supported by a clear budget but some actually miss this.

I was not making overall and general claims about the value of budgeting, but instead, I was attempting to suggest that if any of us is worried about either risk or volatility, we can choose our position size in order to help us to deal with our concerns, so in that regard, the more bullish and care-free we are, then the more that we  might invest and the more worried we are, then we might choose a lower amount.

Let's say that on average each week, we have $200 of discretionary funds, and so we can choose to 1) consume, 2) invest 3) save.  We can choose how much to put in each of these categories.. Maybe a standard approach would be to put $50 into consumption and $50 into savings and then put the other $100 into bitcoin, yet if we were more worried about it, then we might lower the portion that we put into bitcoin, and either put it into savings and/or consumption.  We could just put $66 into each...and so my point is that our level of aggressiveness in our investment relates to how bullish that we might be about bitcoin and/or any concerns that we might have about it would potentially affect weekly allocated amount... It could also affect overall position size, so even if we had already been investing in bitcoin for 9 years (going by your forum registration date), we might choose to reduce our position size or maybe to invest less aggressively into bitcoin as we had been previously.

In fact, I see Bitcoin's volatility as what makes it possible to generate significant profits, making it different from fiat currency. Many people talk about this, not because they're afraid or disagree with it. Rather, it's an opportunity to profit. Volatility is a topic of discussion, and it's relevant to both long-term and short-term investors. However, I suggest that if you already know and understand Bitcoin volatility, it's better to invest long-term, as it will be much more profitable.

Volatility is usually more often exploited by short-term investors. Long-term investors who are still happy to buy a certain amount of Bitcoin usually don't care much about the price, except for those who still don't have a large amount of Bitcoin and are still focused on accumulating it by buying it regularly. I've also noticed this sometimes, but the actions of large investors and small investors under various circumstances are always different, even though their ultimate goal is almost the same: to profit. Therefore, advice should also be different for these two types of investors, even though they both focus on buying and profiting over a certain period.

Everyone tries to profit from Bitcoin with different perspectives, some short-term or some long-term. But the main thing is to understand the possibilities, we should usually invest by using the strategy that has low risk and good potential. But if we decide to use a strategy where the probability of loss is higher than success, then of course we are making the wrong decision which can cause us losses. There is no strategy through which we can definitely profit, but still we must warn ourselves in such a way that you have to choose the more success potential strategy and invest correctly with that strategy.

What are you talking about?  You cannot figure out your strategy? 

You guys must be in a trading mindset.  Maybe the title of the thread throws people off into thinking that there is some value in strategizing around the price?

You have been registered here for a year and a half ChocolateBitcoinK.  You haven't figured out your bitcoin strategy, yet?

Although maybe for this aspect we only just got a few percent profit (even much bigger) for a temporary size in the investments we have made in the last few years but it is already visible that profits are in sight, it's just how to manage our patience, persistence and greed because in this case most of them especially the fomo always try to leave when the profit is only a few percent. If it is a long-term goal, it is clear that things like this are not too advisable, especially since there is no guarantee that after leaving we can re-enter easily and this is where our patience is tested.

Yep.  You make some good points, and it seems to me that even if guys are accumulating bitcoin for only a few years, they likely are spending time learning about bitcoin so that they might be able to become more convinced that it is better to invest for the long term, such as longer than 10 years... or whenever they might be able to determine that they have reached a status of accumulating enough or more than enough bitcoin so that they might be able to start something like sustainable withdrawal.

This depends on the seriousness and interest of the person because even though there are those who have been in several years even longer when they are not serious and not interested in bitcoin in the end it will be the same but indeed when they feel the impact especially feel this will be profitable for the future they will be very stupid if they just miss bitcoin.

If indeed they are quite sure of what they are doing then actually 2 cycles or even more than that (because I am sure that in this part of the world there must be those who still hold bitcoin from the initial period) then indeed they have realized that the positive impact they feel is really happening with bitcoin.

It still can take more than a whole cycle to really start to feel that the bitcoin investment is solidly paying off, and even after there is a perception of profits, guys still have to be careful to either not sell too much too soon or to not stop in their ongoing bitcoin accumulation.  Many folks make those two mistakes, which largely means that they are never able to reach overaccumulation status.  To me, it seems that the bigger and more meaningful options start to come into play once a guy reaches overaccumulation status, and if guys are either cashing out too soon or they are failing to stack sufficiently, then they end up missing out on what they could have had.

On the process of accumulating and thinking about getting more volumes. They can set up their own goals whether they like to hold it for 4 or proceed to 10+ more years then reach to the point on what year they are comfortable to think about making their withdrawals. This is not just all about buying BTC, but rather its all about shaping their personal strategy and knowledge as they go with this option.

I think continuing for up to 10 years would be more ideal especially if you want to get a large volume in bitcoin accumulation, then 10 years should have reached the target and it is considered for withdrawal.

You are going to withdraw at 10 years? How would you do it?  All at once? or in some other manner?

10 years is not a short time you may need to be consistent because this is one so that you can reach the goal there, maybe people will feel bored but rest assured when it all reaches your goal you will be the winner where because you can last up to 10 years.
Try to imagine 10 years maybe the price of bitcoin is already $500,000. We have collected a lot of bitcoins considering withdrawal is not a problem.

Yes.  You don't know the exact price at 10 years, so will it make a difference in regards to the actual price when you withdraw?

Are you sure that you are not fantasizing, and you have any kind of an actual plan or you are just fantasizing about something that is not even based in anything close to reality?

[BitBakerr1]

In fact, I see Bitcoin's volatility as what makes it possible to generate significant profits, making it different from fiat currency. Many people talk about this, not because they're afraid or disagree with it. Rather, it's an opportunity to profit. Volatility is a topic of discussion, and it's relevant to both long-term and short-term investors. However, I suggest that if you already know and understand Bitcoin volatility, it's better to invest long-term, as it will be much more profitable.

Volatility is usually more often exploited by short-term investors. Long-term investors who are still happy to buy a certain amount of Bitcoin usually don't care much about the price, except for those who still don't have a large amount of Bitcoin and are still focused on accumulating it by buying it regularly. I've also noticed this sometimes, but the actions of large investors and small investors under various circumstances are always different, even though their ultimate goal is almost the same: to profit. Therefore, advice should also be different for these two types of investors, even though they both focus on buying and profiting over a certain period.

Everyone tries to profit from Bitcoin with different perspectives, some short-term or some long-term. But the main thing is to understand the possibilities, we should usually invest by using the strategy that has low risk and good potential. But if we decide to use a strategy where the probability of loss is higher than success, then of course we are making the wrong decision which can cause us losses. There is no strategy through which we can definitely profit, but still we must warn ourselves in such a way that you have to choose the more success potential strategy and invest correctly with that strategy.

If we want to Profit from Bitcoin, We must first do Dca, so it is wise to choose things that have low risk and High Probability of Success, but if we do not take Risks, Nothing Can be done, But the probability of success is high.Risk Management And Discipline Are the Keys to longTerm Survival.

For your first statement DCA strategy is not the only way or strategy that can lead you to success in Bitcoin investment if you have money for a lump sum strategy you can go for it and then keep holding for a very long time and you will still be successful.
As we are talking about DCA strategy let's not act as if is the only strategy, we have other strategy we use to invest in Bitcoin but DCA strategy is the most comfortable strategy we have and is very good for even those who are not doing a well paid job.
Yes you are correct Abelly when one has a good risk management plan and is well discipline he will succeed easily.

[Alonso_]

Yep.  You make some good points, and it seems to me that even if guys are accumulating bitcoin for only a few years, they likely are spending time learning about bitcoin so that they might be able to become more convinced that it is better to invest for the long term, such as longer than 10 years... or whenever they might be able to determine that they have reached a status of accumulating enough or more than enough bitcoin so that they might be able to start something like sustainable withdrawal.

Sometimes guys might not really know about their goals or their target, and they can also study and figure out those kinds of matters as they are continuing to build up their bitcoin stack size.

You’re right, there are guys and investors who have been investing in Bitcoin for a long term, most of them would have started on a very difficult situation, because they must have struggled to figure out there plans when starting investment, because not everyone have that tendency of having that plans to invest for a longer term, along the line they have to learn little by little and adjust how to invest in bitcoin with a long term plans, and they have to realize that that 4 years wouldn’t be enough for them to invest in bitcoin, rather they have to even suggest and think that 10 years wouldn’t be enough for them to keep investing in bitcoin, there are people who have been holding bitcoin for quite 20 years now and there bitcoin investment have been sustainable, and some investors also have Bitcoin as reserves that they don’t intend to touch, and some investors also use bitcoin as an inheritance plans for their family.

I think whichever way that we choose to invest in bitcoin for a longer term period it’s quite sustainable as long as we have a working plan of sustainability.

[PhilosopherKing]

Investing in Bitcoin with your DCA when you properly understand the value of Bitcoin and the price fluctuations may enable you accumulate more Bitcoin with your DCA when Bitcoin experience bearish season than during bullish season hence understanding how the market works is still not a bad idea rather it will add more value to investment and possibly good outcomes during bullish season.

There you go sounding like a trader, you don't have any business with price fluctuations as an investor who is ready to invest in Bitcoin and hold for a long term. Knowing that Bitcoin is a volatile asset is enough for an investor instead of wanting to understand about price fluctuations if I may ask are you intending to trader it? Because only traders does, they try to understand the dynamics in price fluctuations so they can outsmart the market but sad enough that they always get themselves fucked up most times.

Do you know how funny you sound? Price fluctuation are part of Bitcoin and pretending that it doesn't exist doesn't make you more of an investors, it only will make you clueless about the kind of asset that you actually own. Volatility is part of the basics to know about Bitcoin whether you are an investor or a trader, Mister Jay has confirmed this times and times, you just weren't paying attention to grasp it.
Anyone that is investing in Bitcoin will always have business with price fluctuation, don't tell me you haven't noticed it since you started investing Bitcoin?

[Derekfunds]

In fact, I see Bitcoin's volatility as what makes it possible to generate significant profits, making it different from fiat currency. Many people talk about this, not because they're afraid or disagree with it. Rather, it's an opportunity to profit. Volatility is a topic of discussion, and it's relevant to both long-term and short-term investors. However, I suggest that if you already know and understand Bitcoin volatility, it's better to invest long-term, as it will be much more profitable.

Volatility is usually more often exploited by short-term investors. Long-term investors who are still happy to buy a certain amount of Bitcoin usually don't care much about the price, except for those who still don't have a large amount of Bitcoin and are still focused on accumulating it by buying it regularly. I've also noticed this sometimes, but the actions of large investors and small investors under various circumstances are always different, even though their ultimate goal is almost the same: to profit. Therefore, advice should also be different for these two types of investors, even though they both focus on buying and profiting over a certain period.

Everyone tries to profit from Bitcoin with different perspectives, some short-term or some long-term. But the main thing is to understand the possibilities, we should usually invest by using the strategy that has low risk and good potential. But if we decide to use a strategy where the probability of loss is higher than success, then of course we are making the wrong decision which can cause us losses. There is no strategy through which we can definitely profit, but still we must warn ourselves in such a way that you have to choose the more success potential strategy and invest correctly with that strategy.

If we want to Profit from Bitcoin, We must first do Dca, so it is wise to choose things that have low risk and High Probability of Success, but if we do not take Risks, Nothing Can be done, But the probability of success is high.Risk Management And Discipline Are the Keys to longTerm Survival.

DCA is very important and as a matter of fact it is the most reliable and convenient method of accumulating Bitcoin because it help an investor accumulate Bitcoin regardless of the price or phase of the market and it also help both the rich and the poor to invest and with the DCA method you don't need to have everything put together, you can sort your discretionary income and start your accumulation but it is not the only method that can give us profit or make us to be successful in Bitcoin rather it is our determination and target and the availability of our discretionary.

[MainIbem]

Yes.  You don't know the exact price at 10 years, so will it make a difference in regards to the actual price when you withdraw?

Are you sure that you are not fantasizing, and you have any kind of an actual plan or you are just fantasizing about something that is not even based in anything close to reality?

All we can just do is hope that Bitcoin would get to that figure in the next decade, were not even sure about it since the future is unknown so making reference for withdrawal with a figure were not sure about but hoping on is kinda acting too fast. I fell that investors should focus their attention on accumulating more Bitcoin than thinking of when and when not to sell it, yes there would definitely be a point when one would consider selling some portions after accumulating for years but the major concern should be accumulating as much as possible.

[JayJuanGee]

Yep.  You make some good points, and it seems to me that even if guys are accumulating bitcoin for only a few years, they likely are spending time learning about bitcoin so that they might be able to become more convinced that it is better to invest for the long term, such as longer than 10 years... or whenever they might be able to determine that they have reached a status of accumulating enough or more than enough bitcoin so that they might be able to start something like sustainable withdrawal.

Sometimes guys might not really know about their goals or their target, and they can also study and figure out those kinds of matters as they are continuing to build up their bitcoin stack size.

You’re right, there are guys and investors who have been investing in Bitcoin for a long term, most of them would have started on a very difficult situation, because they must have struggled to figure out there plans when starting investment, because not everyone have that tendency of having that plans to invest for a longer term, along the line they have to learn little by little and adjust how to invest in bitcoin with a long term plans, and they have to realize that that 4 years wouldn’t be enough for them to invest in bitcoin, rather they have to even suggest and think that 10 years wouldn’t be enough for them to keep investing in bitcoin, there are people who have been holding bitcoin for quite 20 years now and there bitcoin investment have been sustainable, and some investors also have Bitcoin as reserves that they don’t intend to touch, and some investors also use bitcoin as an inheritance plans for their family.

I think whichever way that we choose to invest in bitcoin for a longer term period it’s quite sustainable as long as we have a working plan of sustainability.

You seem to use the term sustainable in much looser ways than I use it.  Many times people deplete their principle when they are withdrawing from their bitcoin, and when I use the term sustainable withdrawal I am suggesting to ONLY withdraw from the appreciating portion of the bitcoin, so that the bitcoin's dollar value is maintaining itself, and so in that sense you can withdraw from your bitcoin forever without losing dollar value.

Of course, anyone is free to deplete their principle at any time, yet when I use the term sustainable withdrawal I am not referring to depleting the principle.  Of course within my thread I post my various ideas related to sustainable withdrawal, both price-based and time-based sustainable withdrawal.  Each of the approaches have their advantages and disadvantages and guys can apply the ideas how they believe fits their own circumstances.

I doubt that just calling something sustainable makes it sustainable, especially if the principle is being depleted, yet sure, guys can do what they want, but if they call it sustainable and they are depleting their principle, then I would suggest that they don't really understand the "sustainable" idea.

Yes.  You don't know the exact price at 10 years, so will it make a difference in regards to the actual price when you withdraw?

Are you sure that you are not fantasizing, and you have any kind of an actual plan or you are just fantasizing about something that is not even based in anything close to reality?

All we can just do is hope that Bitcoin would get to that figure in the next decade, were not even sure about it since the future is unknown so making reference for withdrawal with a figure were not sure about but hoping on is kinda acting too fast. I fell that investors should focus their attention on accumulating more Bitcoin than thinking of when and when not to sell it, yes there would definitely be a point when one would consider selling some portions after accumulating for years but the major concern should be accumulating as much as possible.

It seems that you arrive at a similar conclusion as me MainIbem, and surely we can ONLY attempt to control what we can control, and we probably should attempt to prepare for a variety of possible scenarios, especially if we are projecting out 10-ish years.. .. yet if we are in the process of building our bitcoin holdings and also strengthening our cashflow management systems/practices, it is likely that we can also make various measurements of our progress along the way in terms of considering where we might have had projected ourself to be and whether we are on track, under performing or over performing our earlier targets.

Yes, there are quite a few unknowns in regards to the future (especially the further that we project out), yet if we are projecting out shorter timelines and we are projecting what we are able to do, then those kinds of projections should be based on what is realistically within our abilities to carry them out.

It seems to me that if we are ongoingly accumulating bitcoin, we likely are able to project various scenarios, such as our base case of what will happen, our best case and our worse case scenarios..   We should be able to project out all of these possible scenarios simultaneously, so then as time passes and we are carrying out our part of the deal (such as ongoingly buying bitcoin), then we can see how we are progressing as we go and see if we are getting closer to our goals based on reality based considerations rather than just projecting out 10 years into the future in abstract ways..

So of course, you know your own status, yet if I were to imagine someone with 8.5 years investing into bitcoin (going by your forum registration date), then I could imagine how many bitcoin might have had been accumulated over such time, however, in your actual case, you already have 8.5 years worth of data that has been turned into reality, and so your starting point right now is probably better than a no coiner.. so you work with the actual numbers that you have right now in front of you based on where you are at rather than where you might be in a speculative sense.

Accordingly, maybe when you started investing into bitcoin, you had some kind of a timeline in mind, yet you might have had to make adjustments to your timeline from time to time based on your progress and based on if you had been meeting your targets or not.

Another thing is that if you have concrete numbers and a track record that is 8.5 years old, then maybe you had some years that you did not make very good progress and then maybe you had some years where you made improvement, yet overall, your track record in regards to what you have already done is likely a very good indication of the realistic aspect of what you are capable of into the future... So for example, if you had gotten into a habit of buying $100 of bitcoin per week and you already have your back up funds in place, then you are in a better position than someone who does not have such a habit.  And, yeah, maybe you have plans to change some things, such as where you source your coins or how you store your coins and maybe improve your ways of backing up your wallets, yet your experience still should help to guide you in regards to what might be realistic, and surely some guys have more years than other guys depending on their age, and some guys have better income prospects than other guys depending on their skills and their training.. so you likely have ideas where you stand in regards to each of the calculations of expected income and expected expenses and also how much you expect that you are able to continue to invest into bitcoin, whether on a weekly basis or otherwise.

If we need to, we could give an example in order to flesh out these kinds of ideas in regards to what a guys goals might be based on what he had already done and based on where he would like to go based on where he is at.

[Raflesia]

For short-term investors, they tend to see opportunities in the rise and fall of Bitcoin prices in a relatively short time and take good moment with the volatility.

Isn't that tantamount to trading? Why make it an investor because at the end of the day such a concept is still trading and even if we want to describe ourselves as an investor with the same concept it still cannot be because it is clearly trading.

It is conditions like this that sometimes become wrong in the perception of some people as if they are investors but instead it makes them traders because of the overlapping understanding between investors and traders.

In addition, we need to remember that in this case (investing in bitcoin) risk management also needs to be considered, when we only enter and exit in the market it actually makes your risk even greater and conditions like that even though it might show a profit at the end but in a few other moments it will actually make you lose and forever will be like that because sooner or later when someone is in trading (or you call it short-term investment) the results will not be much different where losses are always felt.

You make a decently good point here, Raflesia.  When a person is investing, he is surely taking chances to invest in bitcoin and to manage his cashflows in a way that he is not overinvesting or underinvesting in bitcoin.

On the other hand, when a guy is trading bitcoin, it is like he doesn't know what he is doing, since he is getting in and then out and then in, and so there are so many chances to screw up such a great investment like bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a great place to put value,  yet there are some folks getting in and then out and then in and then there is almost no way to actually benefit from the value of bitcoin in a meaningful way, even if short-term dollar profits might happen from time to time with such behaviors.

But when we talk about investing then at least the risk we have is a bit smaller than those who trade because even though we know that both (trading and investing) have risks but of course we can compare which risks we can minimize as small as possible as in investing for the long term and which ones remain in big risks that continue to be the same as when they trade.
Maybe some will say it depends on the choice but for me when there is a risk that we can minimize why take a bigger risk in trading because it will only make you happy for a moment but miserable at the end because not always trading ends with good things.

Even short-term dollar gains in this behavior may not be meaningful because even if they are professional traders, I'm pretty sure they must have felt a loss because it's not always the case that a few dollars of profit will last.
The fact that always happens is that when so much money is burned in liquidation when bitcoin experiences a correction is always strong evidence that traders will not get meaningful profits.

[bounceback]

But when we talk about investing then at least the risk we have is a bit smaller than those who trade because even though we know that both (trading and investing) have risks but of course we can compare which risks we can minimize as small as possible as in investing for the long term and which ones remain in big risks that continue to be the same as when they trade.
Maybe some will say it depends on the choice but for me when there is a risk that we can minimize why take a bigger risk in trading because it will only make you happy for a moment but miserable at the end because not always trading ends with good things.

Even short-term dollar gains in this behavior may not be meaningful because even if they are professional traders, I'm pretty sure they must have felt a loss because it's not always the case that a few dollars of profit will last.
The fact that always happens is that when so much money is burned in liquidation when bitcoin experiences a correction is always strong evidence that traders will not get meaningful profits.

Some people don't want to take high risks, so they choose long-term investments. However, when investing long-term, our patience is tested by the market, sometimes causing someone to waver when faced with a loss in their portfolio value. In such situations, some often lose sight of their primary investment goals.
The risk factor is not a reason to postpone our investment goals in Bitcoin, as the low or high risk significantly impacts the returns offered (the higher the risk, the greater the potential profit).

[Jaksonhard]

Some people don't want to take high risks, so they choose long-term investments. However, when investing long-term, our patience is tested by the market, sometimes causing someone to waver when faced with a loss in their portfolio value. In such situations, some often lose sight of their primary investment goals.
The risk factor is not a reason to postpone our investment goals in Bitcoin, as the low or high risk significantly impacts the returns offered (the higher the risk, the greater the potential profit).

Being honest about investing means acknowledging that long-term investing provides a lot of stress relief; however long-term investors must remain patient when they experience price declines (or "red" portfolios); thus it becomes difficult for them to recall their original reason(s) for investing. More often than not, the biggest challenge for a long-term investor is not selecting the correct assets, but rather staying focused on their long-term investment goals. Risk, by definition, is what creates the potential for Bitcoin; therefore, risk alone should not prevent people from adopting Bitcoin or other forms of digital currency. Higher risk leads to greater volatility, yet also greater potential for profits. Therefore, what is important for an investor is identifying what amount of risk makes them feel comfortable, remaining disciplined through the various stages of a market cycle.

[Bigjoe33]

Some people don't want to take high risks, so they choose long-term investments. However, when investing long-term, our patience is tested by the market, sometimes causing someone to waver when faced with a loss in their portfolio value. In such situations, some often lose sight of their primary investment goals.
The risk factor is not a reason to postpone our investment goals in Bitcoin, as the low or high risk significantly impacts the returns offered (the higher the risk, the greater the potential profit).

Being honest about investing means acknowledging that long-term investing provides a lot of stress relief; however long-term investors must remain patient when they experience price declines (or "red" portfolios); thus it becomes difficult for them to recall their original reason(s) for investing. More often than not, the biggest challenge for a long-term investor is not selecting the correct assets, but rather staying focused on their long-term investment goals. Risk, by definition, is what creates the potential for Bitcoin; therefore, risk alone should not prevent people from adopting Bitcoin or other forms of digital currency. Higher risk leads to greater volatility, yet also greater potential for profits. Therefore, what is important for an investor is identifying what amount of risk makes them feel comfortable, remaining disciplined through the various stages of a market cycle.

Yea, but in which ever way, we can't do away with risk in Bitcoin investment. There is sure risk as the next  price movement of bitcoin is not sure wether it is upwards or downwards, so the risk factor remains constant. However it becomes necessary that an investor puts in place and/or incheck some necessary risk management factors the help curb and/or reduce the effect of risk to a certain degree while continuing consistently with his investment.
He should ensure to always invest from his discretionary only, ensure good income management which will help for proper income allocation. This will help not to misuse his income or discretionary, and most importantly, building up his emergency funds and other back up funds alongside your Bitcoin portfolio, and such back up funds will serve as strength and enable your HODL your BTC for longer period as initially planned

[Obulis]

In fact, I see Bitcoin's volatility as what makes it possible to generate significant profits, making it different from fiat currency. Many people talk about this, not because they're afraid or disagree with it. Rather, it's an opportunity to profit. Volatility is a topic of discussion, and it's relevant to both long-term and short-term investors. However, I suggest that if you already know and understand Bitcoin volatility, it's better to invest long-term, as it will be much more profitable.

Volatility is usually more often exploited by short-term investors. Long-term investors who are still happy to buy a certain amount of Bitcoin usually don't care much about the price, except for those who still don't have a large amount of Bitcoin and are still focused on accumulating it by buying it regularly. I've also noticed this sometimes, but the actions of large investors and small investors under various circumstances are always different, even though their ultimate goal is almost the same: to profit. Therefore, advice should also be different for these two types of investors, even though they both focus on buying and profiting over a certain period.

Everyone tries to profit from Bitcoin with different perspectives, some short-term or some long-term. But the main thing is to understand the possibilities, we should usually invest by using the strategy that has low risk and good potential. But if we decide to use a strategy where the probability of loss is higher than success, then of course we are making the wrong decision which can cause us losses. There is no strategy through which we can definitely profit, but still we must warn ourselves in such a way that you have to choose the more success potential strategy and invest correctly with that strategy.

So far short term or trading perspective has more possibility of loss than success as compared with long-term perspective that has proven to be of low risk and high success potentials. This makes long-term perspective the best option. This doesn't stop the camouflage gains through short-term or trading but points to best perspective as per level of risk and higher probability of success.

[Lucky_V]

In fact, I see Bitcoin's volatility as what makes it possible to generate significant profits, making it different from fiat currency. Many people talk about this, not because they're afraid or disagree with it. Rather, it's an opportunity to profit. Volatility is a topic of discussion, and it's relevant to both long-term and short-term investors. However, I suggest that if you already know and understand Bitcoin volatility, it's better to invest long-term, as it will be much more profitable.

Volatility is usually more often exploited by short-term investors. Long-term investors who are still happy to buy a certain amount of Bitcoin usually don't care much about the price, except for those who still don't have a large amount of Bitcoin and are still focused on accumulating it by buying it regularly. I've also noticed this sometimes, but the actions of large investors and small investors under various circumstances are always different, even though their ultimate goal is almost the same: to profit. Therefore, advice should also be different for these two types of investors, even though they both focus on buying and profiting over a certain period.

Everyone tries to profit from Bitcoin with different perspectives, some short-term or some long-term. But the main thing is to understand the possibilities, we should usually invest by using the strategy that has low risk and good potential. But if we decide to use a strategy where the probability of loss is higher than success, then of course we are making the wrong decision which can cause us losses. There is no strategy through which we can definitely profit, but still we must warn ourselves in such a way that you have to choose the more success potential strategy and invest correctly with that strategy.

So far short term or trading perspective has more possibility of loss than success as compared with long-term perspective that has proven to be of low risk and high success potentials. This makes long-term perspective the best option. This doesn't stop the camouflage gains through short-term or trading but points to best perspective as per level of risk and higher probability of success.

People with short-term investments are more like gamblers waiting for the best time to invest to benefit the most ,just like gamblers there are most likely to loss their money because as a short-term investor you have to invest a huge amount of money in other to take home some good profit which further expose you to loosing more money than a long-term investors.
Long-term investors are less likely to loss their money, there allocate little or fraction of their money to the investment and also carrying out a good research on with one is to buy and which strategy is to be used.

Long-term investment are the best for beginners because it provides lower risk and a good ground for a newbie to develop in digital marketing ,early loss for a newbie may end up discouraging him/her.
People invest in short them investments because of lack of information,there believe or must have heard it's fast paying and pays more without knowing that a long-term investment can change your life even more and also save you from lots of risk .

[Cossyblack]

For your first statement DCA strategy is not the only way or strategy that can lead you to success in Bitcoin investment if you have money for a lump sum strategy you can go for it and then keep holding for a very long time and you will still be successful.
As we are talking about DCA strategy let's not act as if is the only strategy, we have other strategy we use to invest in Bitcoin but DCA strategy is the most comfortable strategy we have and is very good for even those who are not doing a well paid job.
Yes you are correct Abelly when one has a good risk management plan and is well discipline he will succeed easily.

Your right,there are three strategies which we can use to accumulate bitcoin, so the DCA Strategy can't be the only strategy we can use to accumulate bitcoin. We have DCA, Buy the Dip and Lump sum and these strategies are effective when use to accumulate Bitcoin. It is now Left for the individual to chose which of these strategies would be suitable for his accumulation plan.
Among the three strategies,I would recommend the DCA Strategy because it is the most convenient strategy you can use to accumulate bitcoin. Being successful doesn't depend on the strategy you're using to accumulate bitcoin, rather it is the size of your portfolio & the number of years Hodl for the long term is what will determine your level of success.

[POPOLUV]

I am pretty sure he is a trader that times the market to buy bitcoin,otherwise he shouldn't have any business with price swings or price fluctuation . Instead he should focus on having discretionary income that he would used to invest in bitcoin. Investing in bitcoin should only be when he has met all of his basic needs, and the leftover cash is his discretionary income which should be use to invest in bitcoin. Investing using DCA would make his investment be stress free and he wouldn't have business with timing the market anymore.

It is not that you can be stress-free by investing only with discretionary income. To be stress-free, many other things should be given importance. You must have a back-up fund and a strong income flow to continue buying Bitcoin for a long time. What is more important than this is to control yourself when the price of Bitcoin decreases. When I first started investing with discretionary income, when I saw that the price of Bitcoin was decreasing, I used to feel restless, but with time it has become a habit. In terms of investing in Bitcoin, apart from the right investment way  and fund management, it is much more important to keep your mentality right.

Of course it is not a bad idea of having a back up fund as an investors but for you to be stress free you don't need to put your mind or monitoring your mind in the Bitcoin price in the parallel market because it is certain that every blessed day the fluctuation in Bitcoin price is a normal thing that do happen, and at such one don't need a steady source of income before having plans of having a back up plans or before starting to invest and accumulating aggressively, and remove the mentality of monitoring the price of Bitcoin in the parallel market and focus on buying.