Poloniex's taking money from its customers to cover its loss

[arewethereyet?]

In a space filled with utter waste $400 million for this looks like one of the biggest cash bonfires of all.

I visualise Tristan giggling to himself, every morning of every day.....

[countryfree]

Does anyone here is a regular poster on Wikipedia, or knows a journalists?
Thanks.

Both Paul Vigna and Steven Russolillo have covered bitcoin recently:

[/quote]

Thanks a lot, but I suggest you edit your post and remove addresses. I noted them. I would not like to have my address on a public forum.

[PrimeNumber7]

Poloniex declaring bankruptcy.

What's wrong with that? It would still be better than keeping the business running as usual as it is. At last, the world would be sure this won't happen again.

There is nothing wrong with this per se, but I would repeat that I do not believe this is a winning case. I would also repeat that I believe the right thing to do is Poloniex to cover the losses, I do not believe they are legally required to do so.

If you did bankrupt Poloniex, I believe you would spend a lot of money out of your own pocket doing so, and any money you do recover would probably not cover any legal expenses you incur.

That depends on how Poloniex is set up. If the money of customers' is in custodial accounts, (which i think might be required by law?) then in the case of a bankruptcy, those funds won't/can't be collected, and will be returned to the account holders.

I don’t know how their accounts are setup. I don’t believe they have bank accounts with customer money. If they do go bankrupt, the argument will likely be made that account holders have a lien against crypto assets in the amount of their various balances. Someone who has a 1 btc deposit will have a lien on 1 btc worth of their bitcoin and someone with a 1 ltc deposit has a lien on 1 ltc worth of litecoin.

Does anyone here is a regular poster on Wikipedia, or knows a journalists?
Thanks.

Both Paul Vigna and Steven Russolillo have covered bitcoin recently:

Thanks a lot, but I suggest you edit your post and remove addresses. I noted them. I would not like to have my address on a public forum.

I removed their email addresses, however they appear on every article they have written or contributed to.

[countryfree]

I removed their email addresses, however they appear on every article they have written or contributed to.

I guess they don't mind getting an awful lot of spam...

Now, something important!

I guess we all agree here that Poloniex has been doing a bad thing, here, but everybody can act to tell the world about it.

All you need is a smartphone (Android or Iphone). Just download the Poloniex app, and give them the lowest rating with a comment explaining you cannot trust an exchange which socializes loss among its users. Please do it! It's important that the world knows about it, and it's important that Poloniex (and Circle behind it) sees it's under pressure, so that it must give us our money back.

Thanks in advance to anyone who will help spreading the truth.

[AdolfinWolf]

I will do it for sure. People must know their heroes.

Thanks, everybody should it. It only takes a few minutes, and it will make the crypto world safer, by telling real facts about the Poloniex exchange.

There's 2k reviews in the app store.

A couple grumpy reviews, especially if they look targeted (which this does.) will change nothing, and perhaps even be removed by google/apple for being fake.

I don’t know how their accounts are setup. I don’t believe they have bank accounts with customer money. If they do go bankrupt, the argument will likely be made that account holders have a lien against crypto assets in the amount of their various balances. Someone who has a 1 btc deposit will have a lien on 1 btc worth of their bitcoin and someone with a 1 ltc deposit has a lien on 1 ltc worth of litecoin.

Yeah, i also think they just store their customer's assets in a cold-storage somewhere. I'm kind of interested to know what the rules and regulations on that are, and to who these funds belong in the end.
Really curious actually.

I just know a couple other exchanges who do have custodial bank accounts, but knowing poloniex i wouldn't expect too much from them, much less so in a bankruptcy case, when i can't even under normal circumstances get my money out.

[PrimeNumber7]

I don’t know how their accounts are setup. I don’t believe they have bank accounts with customer money. If they do go bankrupt, the argument will likely be made that account holders have a lien against crypto assets in the amount of their various balances. Someone who has a 1 btc deposit will have a lien on 1 btc worth of their bitcoin and someone with a 1 ltc deposit has a lien on 1 ltc worth of litecoin.

Yeah, i also think they just store their customer's assets in a cold-storage somewhere. I'm kind of interested to know what the rules and regulations on that are, and to who these funds belong in the end.
Really curious actually.

I just know a couple other exchanges who do have custodial bank accounts, but knowing poloniex i wouldn't expect too much from them, much less so in a bankruptcy case, when i can't even under normal circumstances get my money out.

I don't believe poloniex has any customer money in bank accounts because they only trade crypto, and stablecoins.

Gemini for example has customer USD deposits in custodial bank accounts, however the purpose of this is so FDIC insurance gets passed along to customers in case the bank the deposits are being held in fails. My understanding is if an exchange were to hold customer deposits in an account titled in their corporate name, the corporation would have their deposits insured for only the first $250k of deposits, however an exchange holding USD deposits in a custodial account, each customer of the exchange has their USD deposit insured by FDIC insurance limits.

I don't believe the topic has been litigated in the courts, but I believe poloniex owns all coin in their cold/hot wallets and has a liability in the amount of customer deposits. When a customer deposits 1 BTC, both the assets and liabilities of poloniex will increase by the same amount. The important question is if customer deposits amount to an unsecured liability, or if customers have a generalized lien on poloniex's crypto holdings in the amount of their deposits.

[countryfree]

I will do it for sure. People must know their heroes.

Thanks, everybody should it. It only takes a few minutes, and it will make the crypto world safer, by telling real facts about the Poloniex exchange.

There's 2k reviews in the app store.

A couple grumpy reviews, especially if they look targeted (which this does.) will change nothing, and perhaps even be removed by google/apple for being fake.

Well, if you have a better idea, don't keep it to yourself.

Poloniex was the only exchange allowing huge margin trading on a sh*tcoin like CLAM, so that was a mistake we can talk about on a review. I guess we published 10 negative reviews so far. We need many more!

[DonQuijote]

what percentage have they stolen? When will they return the money?

[countryfree]

what percentage have they stolen? When will they return the money?

1,800 BTC have been seized, about 10% have been returned so far, we don't know what's next...

[countryfree]

Poloniex has added new services.

It's now possible to buy BTC with a credit card, and you can also buy or sell via your bank account. It sounds good but who can trust a company which doesn't care about its clients, allowing huge margin trading which are doomed to fail, and doesn't hesitate to take money from its loyal customers to pay for its negligence?

[gentlemand]

Poloniex has added new services.

It's now possible to buy BTC with a credit card, and you can also buy or sell via your bank account. It sounds good but who can trust a company which doesn't care about its clients, allowing huge margin trading which are doomed to fail, and doesn't hesitate to take money from its loyal customers to pay for its negligence?

I wonder what their game plan is. It's clear the public has little intention of coming back.

I presumed buying Poloniex was something to do with their grand plans to tokenise everything and Poloniex would be the portal to trade them but it seems a vague plan at best. If they ever get around to it no one's going to be there any more.

[arewethereyet?]

It sounds good but who can trust a company which doesn't care about its clients, allowing huge margin trading which are doomed to fail, and doesn't hesitate to take money from its loyal customers to pay for its negligence?

+ put a gun to your head for your ID, before your tokens will be yours again. Thieves.

[gentlemand]

+ put a gun to your head for your ID, before your tokens will be yours again. Thieves.

Is this for coins that have been left in there for years before it was sold or does it relate to a more recent deposit?

Anyone expecting that to not be the case hasn't been paying attention for a long, long time.

[arewethereyet?]

+ put a gun to your head for your ID, before your tokens will be yours again. Thieves.

Is this for coins that have been left in there for years before it was sold or does it relate to a more recent deposit?

Anyone expecting that to not be the case hasn't been paying attention for a long, long time.

Talking about Tristan/Polo officially stating that the now sold company, will give fair warning if/when new rules come into play. Well, that didnt happen.....

[countryfree]

I wonder what their game plan is. It's clear the public has little intention of coming back.

So true! I've lost more than 1BTC, I won't ever forget. And Poloniex can count on me to keep on telling others about what they did (and I'm not alone). they've invested to launch new services, but it would be smarter to pay back what they've taken from their clients.

[countryfree]

Bitpoint shows it's a better exchange than Poloniex:

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitpoint-reveals-amounts-stolen-pledging-to-reimburse-users-in-crypto

After a theft, it says it will reimburse all its customers.
So you'll know which exchange to use, now...

[countryfree]

Poloniex 's really sinking.

They're down to the 79th position on https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/

But I'm not surprised. When you steal your customers, nobody wants to do business with you.

[gentlemand]

Poloniex 's really sinking.

They're down to the 79th position on https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/

But I'm not surprised. When you steal your customers, nobody wants to do business with you.

Kind of meaningless when there are so many bullshit exchanges out there.

They're only 10 places below Gemini and five below Itbit and they probably believe they're in competition with them rather than one Indonesian 9yr old and his bots.

In other news - https://www.coindesk.com/circle-moves-non-us-poloniex-customers-to-new-bermuda-entity

[countryfree]

In other news - https://www.coindesk.com/circle-moves-non-us-poloniex-customers-to-new-bermuda-entity

Thanks for info, I'm not reading coindesk that often, but I can't believe what I'm reading:

“The lack of regulatory frameworks significantly limits what can be offered to individuals and businesses in the U.S.”

So they're moving to Bermuda! Is there a better regulatory framework out there?
I highly doubt it. The only reason to go offshore has always been to escape tax, corporate responsability or consumer protection regulations.

If you think your money isn't safe in Poloniex in America, as I do, it's certainly not going to be any better in Bermuda.

[countryfree]

Another interesting topic about Poloniex:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5168204.0

Or just another reason not to use that exchange, and to let it die.