Why is using 51% hashing power stronger than using 51% of the people?

[franky1]

witness to photo is usually getting someone known to the person for a long enough time, where the witness hold employment in a role that shows they are less likely to make a false claim as it would hurt their own reputation.

its not simply find 5-1000 strangers and just say 'my names frank, sign this to say you know im frank'

we are already seeing that voting and passports are based on more of a honour system of combining several sources of documentation make a strong case that the id is legit. but still not 100% 'proof' which is where some false voting, fake passports and such still occur.

so dont treat the ability of creating ID as something easy and effortless and something to brush under the carpet, as its the ID part that is actually the hardest part to document/allocate compared to transaction data of labour.

in short making a 'time' ledger is easy. having it public/privately key secured to an ID is easy. but to allocate and lock it to a physical human securely (digital to analog) is the hard part.

now imagine you had the perfect way to link digital to biological. whats next. proof biological done the task.
say its some education where students earn upto 100 credits for passing a test. %pass=credit
we already see teacher give students second chances to re-test. we see teachers only teach kids enough to answer the test and not real life meaningful lessons. theres even cases where teachers sit with students and hint at the answers

same with commissioned employment like car sales. if a sales men gets 100 credits per car sold on computer they show they sold 10 cars. but physically the salesmen are telling customers to buy car on lease and use it for 2 weeks and the return car using a no questions returns policy. thus free rental. but as stated digitally it appears as a car sale.

[TimeBits]

witness to photo is usually getting someone known to the person for a long enough time, where the witness hold employment in a role that shows they are less likely to make a false claim as it would hurt their own reputation.

its not simply find 5-1000 strangers and just say 'my names frank, sign this to say you know im frank'

we are already seeing that voting and passports are based on more of a honour system of combining several sources of documentation make a strong case that the id is legit. but still not 100% 'proof' which is where some false voting, fake passports and such still occur.

so dont treat the ability of creating ID as something easy and effortless and something to brush under the carpet, as its the ID part that is actually the hardest part to document/allocate compared to transaction data of labour.

in short making a 'time' ledger is easy. having it public/privately key secured to an ID is easy. but to allocate and lock it to a physical human securely (digital to analog) is the hard part

So my brother is sleeping atm, but I would have him come on cam and be like yah this is Michael yada yada yada, I known him my whole life and worked on a farm with him for 20+ years, etc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySvcUDimAk0 Get a video with my doctor, yah this is my patient Mike yada yada yada or dentist. It will really help to tap into the medical systems, but not necessarily needed. I mean I would do it if I could.

I trust a video document of someone giving birth locked into a blockchain on video or even afterbirth the kids eyes and or fingerprint in the blockchain. Honestly fingerprint should be enough.

I will tell you why fingerprint is better than eyescan, and it is because of shit like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eenscggz-Pk granted this is a meme video, but having things like your face and eyes for facebook to have is dangerous, anyone can take a database of people and light them up with drones with cams and guns on them. You can just wear gloves to hide your fingerprints, granted some people have no hands we are going to have to use a picture of their eyes and face but who is going to use the drones to just kill people with no hands. I don`t see it.

Most people do not realize those street cams are logging our faces and eyes anyways. This is what they have if not better already.|

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkw15LkZ_Kw China’s "Social Credit System" Has Caused More Than Just Public Shaming (HBO)
It is coming here you won`t be able to buy a bus ticket because your bad credit score or a plane ticket.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNf4-d6fDoY China: "the world's biggest camera surveillance network" - BBC News
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yKga54tx6U China's surveillance cameras can recognize you

They already link you to social media stuff I bet, your car to your face to your online profile to your medical records to your police records, everything is exposed.

I am going to start wearing a full burqa.

[franky1]

this is why 'people power' is not as strong as hashing power.   the digital/biological divide has too many loopholes of abuse

[TimeBits]

this is why 'people power' is not as strong as hashing power.   the digital/biological divide has too many loopholes of abuse

Frank what is the difference between what we have now? and what we have now on a blockchain? LOL

[franky1]

this is why 'people power' is not as strong as hashing power.   the digital/biological divide has too many loopholes of abuse

Frank what is the difference between what we have now? and what we have now on a blockchain? LOL

hashing is just hashing. its maths. meaning less avenues of attack or abuse.

but when you start requiring the mining to also be dependant on identification. theres a new avenue
but when you start requiring the identification to be dependant on a human. theres a new avenue
but when you start requiring the human to provably perform a task. theres a new avenue

[TimeBits]

this is why 'people power' is not as strong as hashing power.   the digital/biological divide has too many loopholes of abuse

Frank what is the difference between what we have now? and what we have now on a blockchain? LOL

hashing is just hashing. its maths. meaning less avenues of attack or abuse.

but when you start requiring the mining to also be dependant on identification. theres a new avenue
but when you start requiring the identification to be dependant on a human. theres a new avenue
but when you start requiring the human to provably perform a task. theres a new avenue

There is no mining in my system, there is addresses that accumulate duration coins over time, back trackable to the day you were born if we can get birthdays from a birth cert. So if one guy signs up today and one guy signs up in a year it does not matter to their accumulation of duration. Currently the system just starts biased off when you sign up on this guys site www.bitswift.cash (still better than fiat)
We already do
We already do




see the 4th image https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5151153.0 I can explain blockPOP (PROOF OF PERSON/POPULATION) more if you want https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5141142.0

We can verify someone with file uploading.
1 fingerprint = 1 address
no fingers?
1 faceprint = 1 address
no face? don`t worry I got over 30 ways to verify you through file sharing.

We can even make them do fingerprint or iris captcha`s  (live streamed into the blockchain)

[franky1]

There is no mining in my system, there is addresses that accumulate duration coins over time, back trackable to the day you were born if we can get birthdays from a birth cert.

baby swapping in the neonatal unit of a hospital
claiming a still-born child didnt die
kidnapping
'you look nothing like your baby photo'
plastic surgery
facial injury

compare that to the simplicity of the maths of hashing. and hashing is more secure.. as the title of this topic asks

...
all this being said. i personally would have preferred an economy based on people accumulating wealth through life rather than credit agreements and mortgages creating money. or speculating value based on emotion of an asset.

i a few years back ran through scenarios of instead of mortgages/credit agreements creating 'value' the education system would. where test results of students = new money. which is then exchanged with employers/unlocked at grauation. to both re imburse the education system but also give the ex-student access to their funds

but that said this topic asks which is more secure. and maths of hashing is more secure then the numerous loopholes between physical and digital

[TimeBits]

There is no mining in my system, there is addresses that accumulate duration coins over time, back trackable to the day you were born if we can get birthdays from a birth cert.

baby swapping in the neonatal unit of a hospital
claiming a still-born child didnt die
kidnapping
'you look nothing like your baby photo'
plastic surgery
facial injury

compare that to the simplicity of the maths of hashing. and hashing is more secure.. as the title of this topic asks

...
all this being said. i personally would have preferred an economy based on people accumulating wealth through life rather than credit agreements and mortgages creating money. or speculating value based on emotion of an asset.

i a few years back ran through scenarios of instead of mortgages/credit agreements creating 'value' the education system would. where test results of students = new money. which is then exchanged with employers/unlocked at grauation. to both re imburse the education system but also give the ex-student access to their funds

but that said this topic asks which is more secure. and maths of hashing is more secure then the numerous loopholes between physical and digital

This would be the best economy and money supply: NONE, there is a reason none of the other animals use money, it is dumb. We need to just have resources and play earth as a team game human and manage our resources well as a race and species.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5141142.msg51074861#msg51074861

[Pursuer]

lets not forget that hash power is not controlled by the aliens from outer space! they are also "people" it is just people who were willing to take bigger risks than others so they invested more of their money in proof of work algorithm of bitcoin and are going to make profit or lose a lot if the experiment succeeds or fails respectively. and just because someone has a large amount of hashing power that doesn't make them automatically evil.

[TimeBits]

lets not forget that hash power is not controlled by the aliens from outer space! they are also "people" it is just people who were willing to take bigger risks than others so they invested more of their money in proof of work algorithm of bitcoin and are going to make profit or lose a lot if the experiment succeeds or fails respectively. and just because someone has a large amount of hashing power that doesn't make them automatically evil.

Well the point is, why even allow a 51% attack from 1 person, if it is going to be a 51% attack it should come from 51% of the people using the network. Give me a good reason why not?



If they majority of people in gym want to play soccer, we are playing soccer in that gym, Well we should I don`t see why not.



Willing people vote, Willing people have a job, Willing people control the network, Willing people create the money supply, Willing people give up their fingerprint to do so

I am in, ill sign with my fingerprint with a iris scan to, piss and blood sample.

[Ucy]

Good observation. The current way is not how satoshi planned it to be.  Mining was meant to be cpu+nodes on one computer. Cpu was separated from node eventually as mining difficulty increased, making mining less participatory.. . I guess he didn't anticipate this. Maybe he thought that as the mining difficulty increases, each miners will simply use multiple laptops,  upgrade his/her computer to more powerful processors or buy affordable stuff like graphics card. I doubt he would have liked asics and other large miners

[TimeBits]

Good observation. The current way is not how satoshi planned it to be.  Mining was meant to be cpu+nodes on one computer. Cpu was separated from node eventually as mining difficulty increased, making mining less participatory.. . I guess he didn't anticipate this. Maybe he thought that as the mining difficulty increases, each miners will simply use multiple laptops,  upgrade his/her computer to more powerful processors or buy affordable stuff like graphics card. I doubt he would have liked asics and other large miners

satoshi had no clue what the fuck a asic was at the time that is for sure.



The Person is rolling in their grave anyways. What you guys are doing is like pissing on satoshi`s grave.

[angel55]

Even someone had the resources to do a 51 percent attack on bitcoin I doubt they would, all that would do is make the price of bitcoin plummet and make all their mining gear worthless.  It would have to be some type like Joker form The Dark Knight who isn't motivated by money.

[TimeBits]

You do realize Bitcoin has software coded checkpoints, added by it developers.  

You meant "had", Bitcoin Core (which had name Bitcoin-Qt) already no longer use software-coded/hard-coded checkpoint few years ago.

Well the point is, why even allow a 51% attack from 1 person, if it is going to be a 51% attack it should come from 51% of the people using the network. Give me a good reason why not?

No one would allow that, but the problem is how do we verify if 51% attack/votes comes from 51% of the people using the network rather than 1 person on decentralized network?

We verify using fingerprints, id, iris scan, (another 30 different ways) using file sharing.

Here is a eye captcha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4x0vOAu0lQ (better cam will be needed, mine is kind of broken)
We can also use filesharing to upload a fingerprint, video, id and other things, our height, our weight, the colour of our eyes or skin. etc.
Here is file sharing on a blockchain https://youtu.be/Y7TLFyK_3Pk?t=960 My pictures are on that blockchain, I also made my own coin in 3 clicks Mikecoin, voted in a decentralized voting https://imgur.com/haz02ll and used the p2p exchange, soon btc to be added to wallet, I won`t need to trust other people with my btc soon, I can hold it in my own wallet and trade p2p with btc to bits. https://twitter.com/Bit_Swift/status/1135270387628105733

I wonder what is next 

[franky1]

found it funny the amateur eye captcha demo.
anyways

imagine retina's.. and having human verifiers

you have only 3 seconds to verify these 2 retina's

could you be 100% guaranteed and assured that in just a few (be honest) seconds of looking.. no longer, that you could tell if they are the same or not.

[squatter]

We verify using fingerprints, id, iris scan, (another 30 different ways) using file sharing.

Why would you want to upload your biometric and KYC data onto the internet? Aren't you concerned about the risks of identity theft? The cost vs. benefit doesn't seem worth it.

[TimeBits]

We verify using fingerprints, id, iris scan, (another 30 different ways) using file sharing.

Why would you want to upload your biometric and KYC data onto the internet? Aren't you concerned about the risks of identity theft? The cost vs. benefit doesn't seem worth it.

They are already on the internet, The benefits heavily out weigh the cons. The only people concerned are criminals.

the cost: giving up some personal information that is already given up to the hospital at birth.
the benefit: unenslavement, self representation voting (voting on issues rather than voting people to vote for you) 8.8 billion jobs created, everyone creating a money supply at the same rate (fair distribution for once).

I CAN NAME 1000 OTHER BENEFITS FROM THE CASE USES. DO YOU WANT ME TO? THOSE 2 ARE ENOUGH FOR ME TO PISS ON MY COMPUTER AND GIVE IT SOME BLOOD.

[TimeBits]

So you intent to store fingerprints, id, iris scan & other personal information on blockchain? I have 4 concern :
1. Blockchain size would be bloated heavily
2. Verification time would be very long
3. Due 1st & 2nd concern, cost of running full nodes would be expensive. I doubt you can use customer computer to run full nodes.
4. With those data available publicly in huge number, i'm sure someone will use it for Deep Learning training and use it to make fake identity which looks very convincing.

For example, Nvidia's StyleGAN could create human face which looks convincing.


Source : https://github.com/NVlabs/stylegan

What do you think?

1. Sidechains
2. No it won`t (I can do a eye captcha and fingerprint scan in like 10 seconds) it will get faster with better tech as we go along
3. No it is not, storage is cheap these days. My plan is to have a phone that can do everything with a solar panel on it and it be broadcasting the blockstream, with some back up battery's.
4. In the future we could make it so you have to check into a place once every like 10 years to see if you are still alive (it could be in the hospital office) I am sure they will be using this tech to cure diseases a lot faster in people and preventing the spread faster of them.

As for your example, if we have a birth cert, that does not match the blood on the chain, from a real person, we will know it is not a real person. If we know that blood does not exist or there is no birth cert of the eyes/finger prints we know it is a fake person, if we know the iris and fingerprints are already in use you cannot make another account. (we can look on the chain, it will be a red flag in the future when someone is signed up late after we have most the people in the system. BlockPOP.

BlockBirth I have not explained this one yet, I will at the meeting with the U.N.

(WE CAN TELL IF PEOPLE ARE DEAD OR NOT) The blockchain will know you gave it stale blood. If you want to go as far as 25FA. I know this sounds like some type of mark of the beast shit, it is not, it is the complete opposite, Mark of the tamed animal.

[TimeBits]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1138219548979675138

He does know it takes 51% of the hashing power right?

[tsaroz]

It's a rich gets richer scheme.
But again using people would be a difficult task for some decentralized coin. What would you count as a user? A device?
Poor ones would have one device while rich one could get millions. Or you could just ask for KYC from every users and airdrop their wallet with same amount of tokens every month.
Rich could just farm poor peoples device for some quick money or enslave them.