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Author Topic: [GUIDE] Overview of the trust flags  (Read 323 times)
Upgrade00
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June 21, 2019, 07:24:24 AM
Last edit: June 21, 2019, 04:58:03 PM by Upgrade00
 #1

I decided to do a brief research into the new trust system, to make it easier for users to understand the system all in one thread.

All accounts referenced are only used for examples, and I do not support or oppose the accusations.

What are trust flags?

Trust flags were introduced to diversify the trust system.
Introductory thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5153344.0
And to warn members that a certain user may be a scammer and is alleged to have violated written or implied contracts.
The previous trust system would provide an evaluation of the trust history of a user. It would give a general perspective into the trustworthiness or otherwise of forum users.
The trust system can be used for negative, positive or neutral feedback. Trust flags are only for negative feedback. Trust can be deleted, flags cannot be once active.

Trust flags needs at least three more member supporting than opposing for it to be active. Only supports from your trust group is counted, for guests the default trust is used.

Types of flags
- Newbie warning flags: This is given based on evidence suggested by others about a users untrustworthiness i.e actions not directly connected to you.

It is displayed above the users topics, and is only visible to newbies guests and members with less than 7 days log in time. While other users only see '#' besides the users trust score.
Let's consider this user, The-One-Above-All. The account got has a newbie warming flag displayed above his/her profile


-: Contract-violation flags: This is given based on activity directly connected with you. For example, user NLNico activated a flag on the user SafeDice and got more support than opposition (>3). The flag is displayed on the users' (alleged scammer) trust summary and also above his topics (visible to all members)

You can also access it through the sent feedback of NLNico

Logged out users would also get a warning
Logged-out users will now see a warning in trust-enabled sections if more DT members neg-trust the topic starter than positive-trust  ;)him.

Active flags displays yellow colour.
When it also includes a red trust. It displays red. And this activates the: "Warning: Trade with extreme caution" on the users trust score
Newbie warning flags above threads also displays in yellow and red colours.

Who can start a flag?

Anyone can start a newbie warning flag, it needs more supporters than opposers to be visible.

Anyone who is scammed by another user can also start a contract violation flag. You only view those created by users in your trust network. It needs at least three more supporters than opposers to be active.
Trusts flags can be created through a link on the users' profile


How long would a flag be visible when active?
In the spirit of forgiveness/redemption, scammer flags expire 3 years after the incident if the contract was casual/implied, and 10 years after the incident if the contract was written. These expiration times might be administratively changed in specific cases.

There are limits to flags created by a user:
[These limits are in place:
 - Per 180 days, you can only give 1 flag of each type to a given user. So you can't give someone multiple written-contract-violation flags in 180 days, for example.
 - Globally, per year you can only create 1 flag per activity point you have, but at least 1/year.

Does the flag system invalidate all previous negative trusts?

Negative trusts from the pre-flag system are not converted to trusts flags but
- If the number of pre-flags-system negative trust ratings is greater than the number of all positive trust ratings, a warning banner is shown for guests & low-login-time newbies.

Please drop  your suggestions, additions and possible corrections.

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June 21, 2019, 07:59:49 AM
 #2

<…> Trust flags needs at least three more member supporting than opposing for it to be active.<…>
The above applies only to red flags. Yellow flags only require one more supporter than detractor (you do mention this further down in the Yellow Flag section).

This post by @suchmoon is also interesting with regards to the colour displayed on the list of flag supporters and detractors:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5154781.msg51483048#msg51483048
Quote
<…>The blue ones are the people in your trust list. You're always in your own trust list so you will always see yourself as blue on the flags that you support or oppose. Other blue ones would be users in your custom trust list, or if you don't use that - it would be DT members.

Aside from the visual difference, the important part is that blue ones are the ones that count to make the flag active. You need at least one more blue user on the support line than there are blue users on the opposition line to make a yellow flag active. You need at least three more blue supports for a red flag to be active.

Grey ones are clickable too BTW.

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June 21, 2019, 08:18:44 AM
 #3

...
I appreciate your suggestions and corrections. Still doing my research as there are already multiple threads on the topic.

Theymos also discussed about how support and opposition are sorted;
SafeDice has the honor of being the first to get an active scammer flag: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=396610

How is support/opposition to a flag displayed? Are those who are in my trust network always shown in larger font and first, and those outside of my trust network in smaller font and second, and then sorted by UID after determining if a person is in/out of my trust network?

Right, except that they're sorted by activity.

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June 21, 2019, 09:23:26 PM
 #4

I have been reading through posts while I have been offline about the trust flag and had thought I fully understood the trust flags. theymos made it very simple on the initial thread. This post however draws my attention to some points on the new system.
It's great that logged out users and guests also get to view the flags on accounta
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June 27, 2019, 07:24:30 AM
 #5

It's great that logged out users and guests also get to view the flags on accounta

True, and this depends solely on DT members, reason they were charged to be decisive in their assessment and judgements.

This increases the responsibility of DT members not to give negative trust for stupid reasons, but only for things that cause you to believe that the person is a scammer.

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June 27, 2019, 07:37:32 AM
 #6

It's great that logged out users and guests also get to view the flags on accounta

True, and this depends solely on DT members, reason they were charged to be decisive in their assessment and judgements.

This increases the responsibility of DT members not to give negative trust for stupid reasons, but only for things that cause you to believe that the person is a scammer.
It should be that DT members should not give negative trust for stupid reasons as it will become an abuse of having the DT member position rather than giving negative trust for the right reason or why it should be given to a certain user. DT members who do that will be non-DT member anymore. Anyway, this thread helps me to understand about trust flags.

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June 30, 2019, 06:43:20 PM
 #7

It should be that DT members should not give negative trust for stupid reasons as it will become an abuse of having the DT member position

DTs are always charged to be sensible in their decisions, and while trust flags takes away some attention from negative trusts, they should be charged to not only hand them out for relevant cases which affects the general trustworthiness of a user.

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July 16, 2019, 05:38:50 PM
 #8

Bump

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September 09, 2019, 02:13:43 PM
 #9

Trust must be encoded and not anyhow related to human qualities, I believe. Otherwise we are just back to the good old centalized banking.
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September 09, 2019, 07:22:04 PM
 #10

Trust must be encoded and not anyhow related to human qualities, I believe. Otherwise we are just back to the good old centalized banking.

If I understand correctly, you are suggesting that trust should be handled automatically based on programmed rules and guidelines. I am not into tech, but I do not know the probability of that being developed, but I also don't see the necessity. Every aspect of the forum is handled by forum members, hence the human interaction. The system may not be perfect, but there has been much changes recently and that has improved how it functions.

Can you explain further about the relationship between trust flags and the banking system?

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October 11, 2019, 08:29:13 AM
 #11

I think you can clarify a bit better which flags can be used and when. For instance that certain flags can only be used for contract violations and that incorrect use of flags is considered abuse.  Even accidental misuse or support of inaccurate flags can result in consequences.

Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP. People who are habitually wrong, even not knowingly, should also be removed.


I think that several of the problems with Trust were because three different goals were being jammed into one system:
 1. Getting a general idea of someone's trade history and trustworthiness in one convenient location, sort of like reviews on sites like EBay.
 2. Warning newbies/guests who don't know how to research properly about high-risk people.
 3. Deterring scams by creating a cost to scamming (ie. you'll "lose" a veteran account).
 
To improve this, I've split up these use-cases:

Use-case #1 is the old trust system, but I made the descriptions on the rating types a bit more general and removed the concept of a trust score. The numbers are now "distinct positive raters / distinct neutral raters / distinct negative raters". You should give these ratings for anything which you think would impact someone's willingness to trade with the person, but you should not use trust ratings to attack a person's opinions or otherwise talk about things which would not be relevant to reasonable prospective traders.

Use-cases 2 and 3 will be handled by a new system of flags. You can create a flag using a link on a person's trust page.

A newbie-warning flag is active if there are more people supporting such a flag than opposing it. It shows a banner on topics started by the flagged user for guests and for users with less than 7 days of login time. For all users, a "#" is shown next to their trust scores.

For contractual violations only, a scammer flag can be created. This is the only thing which causes the "Warning: trade with extreme caution" warning to return. It also triggers a banner similar to the newbie-warning banner which is visible to all users. A scammer flag requires 3 more supporting users than opposing users to become active.

A new scammer flag should be created for each separate alleged incident. In the spirit of forgiveness/redemption, scammer flags expire 3 years after the incident if the contract was casual/implied, and 10 years after the incident if the contract was written. These expiration times might be administratively changed in specific cases.

Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP. People who are habitually wrong, even not knowingly, should also be removed.

Only users in your trust network count as supporting or opposing flags. For guests, the default trust network is used.

Also, a few miscellaneous changes:
 - All of the sections on users' trust pages are now paginated, so the page doesn't expand to massive size anymore.
 - The ordering of sent feedback is now consistent with the other sections.
 - "Risked BTC" is removed.

PM me if you find bugs.

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