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Author Topic: [Flag] Lutpin - Known Alt Donation funds.  (Read 632 times)
Timelord2067
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June 24, 2019, 09:27:14 AM
 #1

I am creating a Red Flag against Lutpin today after having tried without success for the last few weeks to have Lutpin hand over the donation funds for the Known Alts thread that have been donated to the wallet address 1KnownF41AXkhgry3wNTHJ7NZM6jo1Kohy which at the time of writing this has a balance of 0.017975 BTC.

The Known Alts thread has had three incarnations:

Mk I   - 65 pages, 1,287 posts
Mk II  - 73 pages, 1,441 posts
Mk III - 79 pages, 1,575 posts (and counting) with less than 24 hours between the first and second and then less than 24 hours between the second and third thread's creation.  

Lutpin claims both the Lauda created thread and the thread I started are not the same as the first thread created by mexxer-2 as a primary reason for not handing over the donation funds.

@mexxer-2 created the first thread and locked it abruptly, @Lauda created the second thread and locked it abruptly so I created a third thread - but as yet see no need to lock it.

At some early stage after when mexxer-2 created the first thread the aforementioned wallet address 1KnownF41AXkhgry3wNTHJ7NZM6jo1Kohy was created for donations.  Lutpin was the person holding the funds.

Two separate payouts occurred with one payout being mostly to Lutpin himself and the second payout was to an unspecified wallet address with no explanation forthcoming.

At the start of May 2019 I created two wallet addresses for donations to be made after a brief discussion amongst the active contributors where it was agreed I would hold onto donated funds.  ON the 13th of May I put out an appeal to whomever held onto the original donation funds to transfer them to the new wallet address signing a message.

02 June 2019, 11:09:47 I sent Lutpin a PM requesting the funds be sent over.

Greetings from Australia.

In this post [Archive] I posted the wallet address 1KnownXXXNtrjT539vAWckYqWi77jgUXs6 that I will manage after it was agreed that I could manage the donations to the Known Alts of any-one thread.

In this post [Archive] maxxer-2 states that you manage that wallet address, so could you please forward the entire funds from 1KnownF41AXkhgry3wNTHJ7NZM6jo1Kohy to 1KnownXXXNtrjT539vAWckYqWi77jgUXs6 at your earliest convenience please?

I couldn't help but notice this:



will that cause an issue with the funds being sent?

Regards,

But received no reply.

On the 6th of June 2019 I asked if anyone was in contact with Lutpin who holds onto the donation funds.  Joel_Jensen offered to send a message, however, no message in reply by Lutpin.

On the 17 June 2019, 14:35:35 I posted in the known Alts thread that I had tried contacting Lutpin and I noted that he had been online multiple times after my initial PM to him.

Both in a PM the next day and in the Known Alts thread Lutpin has claimed the Mk II and III threads are not the same as the Mk I thread but won't elaborate.  Lutpin also states the funds are his to do with as he sees fit.

Given Lutpin is in dispute with mexxer-2 over money owed by mexxer-2 to Lutpin I asked how the two could discuss the funds being distributed, but got no reply.

Lutpin in two separate PM's has made veiled threats about what kind of retaliation he will take should I proceed to give him a Red Flag (type 3) as well as again dangling the promise of paying me "As a sign of good will" [7], [8] from the Known Alts "donation funds as a recognition of your valued contributions".

Lutpin doesn't want to discuss the donation funds for the thread that was closed two and a half years ago, nore does he want to hand over the funds to anyone else.

ON the 18th I posted a lengthy breakdown of the events that have transpired in the Known Alts thread and it was another three days later that Lutpin finally responded.

he has no intention of responding to the request
I did so in my previous post, I told you I won't hand over the funds.

he has no intention of justifying his actions.
My previous post has a lengthy explanation of my decision.
You might not like it, you might disagree, but it's there.

At that time I'll have to step up my depute if no response occurs.
Do whatever you think is necessary.
Just keep in mind that you're not in the right here, and any action you take might amount to a violation, eg if you attempt to start a flag.



Lutpin has again been online in the last three days, but has not handed over the donation funds even though he admits I am an intended recipient and the consensus of the current contributors is that I be tasked with holding donation funds.

Because I am an intended recipient and on behalf of the other contributors I am left with no choice but to create this Red Flag Type 3.

So Lutpin, please forward the remaining 0.017975 BTC (less *appropriate* transaction fees) from the wallet address 1KnownF41AXkhgry3wNTHJ7NZM6jo1Kohy to the wallet address 1KnownXXXNtrjT539vAWckYqWi77jgUXs6 [Signed] as previously requested.


The following is a "live" balance:
which is valued at


1KNoWNMK34nGWz2sJy1JzihZdLCGTKcziw
1KnownXXXNtrjT539vAWckYqWi77jgUXs6

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marlboroza
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June 24, 2019, 09:46:51 AM
 #2

Ok, I am not supporting the flag.

The funds are from donations made for the mexxer-2 thread. That donation address has nothing to do with this thread.
While this thread and Lauda's thread carry on the initial idea of the known alts of anyone list, they are different projects.
The donations I hold were made during a time when mexxer-2 ran their thread and I managed most of the things for them.

As the quote by marlboroza shows, we've been clear that the donations are mainly meant for those taking the time to review submissions and format them to be added to the list.
It also mentions that the distribution of those funds is up to mexxers and my discretion. I hope that was clear to everyone donating.
If and when they are distributed, they should go to those who have contributed back then, not be forwarded to be allocated to and by someone else.
While I respect the time spent and work done here, this is not what the donations were made for.

Based on that, I do not plan to send the full amount to Timelord to be held in the new donation address.
I however do recognize that Timelord did actively contribute to the mexxer-2 thread and would be more than happy to forward them part of the donations for that help.
If Timelord wants to send me an address to where I can do that, and then send those funds on to the new donation address, that's their decision.

Also, if anybody had sent funds to the donation address I control and disagrees with my decision, they can contact me and upon verifying their donation, I will refund them, should they not be happy with my handling of it.

This is misusing flagging system, you are not allowed to give red flags to users based on your wrong opinion.

Timelord2067
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June 24, 2019, 10:11:17 AM
 #3

Ok, I am not supporting the flag.

This is misusing flagging system, you are not allowed to give red flags to users based on your wrong opinion.

There is no "opinion" - just facts. And where am I wrong?  All you have managed to do is re-confirm Lutpin is refusing to hand over the funds.

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main-net BTC 0.0001 loans, test-net BTC 0.001 loans 1% seven days max.
marlboroza
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June 24, 2019, 10:20:29 AM
Merited by xtraelv (1)
 #4

There is no "opinion" - just facts. And where am I wrong?
I believe it is explained in quoted post.

Donation funds are specifically for mexxer's thread. I believe they are for users who posted their findings in that thread.

Lutpin told you to give him your address so he can send you your share of donations. Also, he said he will return donations to users who wants them back. So he didn't break anything here.

Also, I don't see you have made contract with lutpin that these funds will be used in new thread which is "similar" but not the same community "project".

All you have managed to do is re-confirm Lutpin is refusing to hand over the funds.
?
I however do recognize that Timelord did actively contribute to the mexxer-2 thread and would be more than happy to forward them part of the donations for that help.
If Timelord wants to send me an address to where I can do that, and then send those funds on to the new donation address, that's their decision.

Also, if anybody had sent funds to the donation address I control and disagrees with my decision, they can contact me and upon verifying their donation, I will refund them, should they not be happy with my handling of it.


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June 24, 2019, 10:28:58 AM
Merited by suchmoon (4), LoyceV (2), xtraelv (1)
 #5

I don't quite understand why you believe that donations made to an address published in Thread A should automatically default to the person running Thread C... simply because Thread C is similar to Thread A? Huh  Whilst they cover the same territory and a somewhat similar purpose... Thread A =/= Thread C. By your logic... anyone could simply create "Known Alts Mk IV" and a new donation address and demand that you forward all donations to their new donation address.

I also don't see any written contract that has been violated.


Lutpin has offered to give you payment of some of those existing funds from Thread A to cover your contributions that were made to Thread A, as per the original intent of the contributions:
I however do recognize that Timelord did actively contribute to the mexxer-2 thread and would be more than happy to forward them part of the donations for that help.
If Timelord wants to send me an address to where I can do that, and then send those funds on to the new donation address, that's their decision.


He also offered to refund any donations if any of the original contributors were not satisfied with his handling of said donations:
Also, if anybody had sent funds to the donation address I control and disagrees with my decision, they can contact me and upon verifying their donation, I will refund them, should they not be happy with my handling of it.

... the consensus of the current contributors is that I be tasked with holding donation funds.
Unless those current contributors were the original contributors... their opinion does not matter in this case. It's not their money.

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June 24, 2019, 11:33:03 AM
 #6

Lutpin claims both the Lauda created thread and the thread I started are not the same as the first thread created by mexxer-2 as a primary reason for not handing over the donation funds.
I would assume donations made were meant for past contributions to the thread, not for future contributions. Based on that assumption it doesn't make sense that donations would be send to later contributions, unless the donations were made when the new threads already existed.

This is misusing flagging system, you are not allowed to give red flags to users based on your wrong opinion.
If anything, I'd say type 2 would be more appropriate, as it's at best implied who should benefit from the donations. But I don't think this deserves a flag.

Donation funds are specifically for mexxer's thread. I believe they are for users who posted their findings in that thread.

Lutpin told you to give him your address so he can send you your share of donations. Also, he said he will return donations to users who wants them back. So he didn't break anything here.
Considering it's been a few years, it would make sense to fully distribute the donations, or return them. There's not really a point in keeping them for more years to come.

To get things started, I made a list of post count per user in the first thread. Note that this should at best be used as a first estimate to decide on how to distribute funds.
The list
The following users have posted x times in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1206112.0
This does not mean they're all bad users.
Merit is based on last Friday's data dump. I only show Merit if there has been at least 1 transaction. If it shows 0 Merit, that means the user has sent Merit, but didn't receive anything.
Trust is only shown if it's non-neutral.
    1. 280x (Legendary) Timelord2067 (Trust: +5 / =0 / -1)  (231 Merit earned (history)) (BPIP)
    2. 131x (Copper Member) Lutpin (Trust: +36 / =1 / -1)  (785 Merit earned (history)) (BPIP)
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  116. 1x (Sr. Member) znickelbackz (BPIP)
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  118. 1x (Sr. Member) alwinlinzee (Trust: +0 / =0 / -2)  (BPIP)
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  120. 1x (Sr. Member) a14m Autobanned!
  121. 1x (Sr. Member) playerbtc (5 Merit earned (history)) Autobanned!
  122. 1x (Sr. Member) brianlee01 (Trust: +0 / =0 / -1)  Autobanned!
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June 24, 2019, 12:45:07 PM
 #7


    1. 280x (Legendary) Timelord2067 (Trust: +5 / =0 / -1)  (231 Merit earned (history)) (BPIP)


Hey look at that - I'm in first place.



Donation funds are specifically for mexxer's thread. I believe they are for users who posted their findings in that thread.


Lutpin explained it differently claiming it was to compensate the administrator of the thread for their time spent maintaining the list. (which was mexxer-2 who owes him money)

Lutpin then deflected by not answering why he gifted himself the major portion of the funds.



@HCP If another thread was started and run concurrently to the Known Alts thread and calling itself the Known Alts thread it would then be a case of which Known Alts thread was the *real* Known Alts thread.  There is no other thread.  The Mk III follows on from the Mk II which follows on from the Mk I.

Were I to close the thread, then naturally I would be asking how the funds should be distributed. QED.

Timelord2067's Timely Test and Main-neT LighTning Loans to a "T"
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June 24, 2019, 03:18:16 PM
 #8

I think it was pretty clear what the intention of the donation address was for.

Being that the thread has been closed for quite some time now, it is probably best to distribute the donations as per the terms of how he said they would be distributed.

At this time I am not supporting the flag.

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June 24, 2019, 05:09:56 PM
Merited by suchmoon (4), Timelord2067 (1), eddie13 (1)
 #9

Lutpin went rogue a long time ago. I was in 777Coin a while ago & I know lightlord takes a long time to refill campaign managers wallets but Lutpin was taking the piss towards the ebd.

I wasn’t DT then & I had to reach out to The Pharmacist to help everybody get paid. lightlord ended up dumping Lutpin as manager & employing Hhampuz.

The Pharmacist will verify this, hilariousandco will too. At one stage we were owed 12 weeks sig campaign pay.

Lutpin is absolutely NOT to be trusted, something fucked up in his life must have happened, he lost the plot & fell off the wagon. Proof of what I said in the 777Coin campaign, read from here -

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1545750.msg45480635#msg45480635

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June 24, 2019, 05:11:46 PM
 #10

^ how is this related to this thread?

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June 24, 2019, 05:14:01 PM
 #11

^ how is this related to this thread?

Further evidence that he’s not to be trusted. If you don’t like my post report it. I’ve supported the flag, he is untrustworthy.

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June 24, 2019, 05:17:12 PM
 #12

^ how is this related to this thread?

Further evidence that he’s not to be trusted. If you don’t like my post report it. I’ve supported the flag, he is untrustworthy.

I like your post but that flag is definitely not for signature campaign.

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June 24, 2019, 05:20:48 PM
 #13

^ how is this related to this thread?

Further evidence that he’s not to be trusted. If you don’t like my post report it. I’ve supported the flag, he is untrustworthy.

I like your post but that flag is definitely not for signature campaign.

I think somebody must have bought his account or it got hacked or something. Lutpin was one of the most trustworthy, likeable people here at one stage.

It was like a total personality swap, he totally changed.

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June 24, 2019, 05:23:00 PM
 #14

I’ve supported the flag, he is untrustworthy.

Supporting the flag means you're agreeing with the accusation referenced by the flag, not some other accusation. You might want to create a separate flag for Lutpin's campaign payment shenanigans instead.

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June 24, 2019, 05:28:45 PM
Merited by Timelord2067 (1)
 #15

I’ve supported the flag, he is untrustworthy.

Supporting the flag means you're agreeing with the accusation referenced by the flag, not some other accusation. You might want to create a separate flag for Lutpin's campaign payment shenanigans instead.

I think there’s enough evidence there to support this specific flag. Maybe Lutpin can come into this thread & explain why he won’t distribute those funds.

Until then I’ll leave my support for this flag. The OP gives damning evidence imo.

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June 24, 2019, 05:28:51 PM
Last edit: June 24, 2019, 05:40:42 PM by marlboroza
Merited by suchmoon (4), LoyceV (2)
 #16

^ how is this related to this thread?

Further evidence that he’s not to be trusted. If you don’t like my post report it. I’ve supported the flag, he is untrustworthy.

I like your post but that flag is definitely not for signature campaign.

I think somebody must have bought his account or it got hacked or something. Lutpin was one of the most trustworthy, likeable people here at one stage.

It was like a total personality swap, he totally changed.
What I am trying to say is that timelord's flag has nothing to do with signature campaign nor that lutpin's account is maybe hacked or something (which is assumption).

Timelord confirmed this:

Quote
User:    Lutpin
You must create a topic describing the specific acts which damaged you. It must not be self-moderated.   
Year and month when the damaging act occurred.   
On my honor, I affirm the following: 1) This user violated a written contract, resulting in damages; 2) I have not been made whole by the user; 3) no existing flag covers this same incident; 4) this incident is accurately and completely described in the above topic; 5) the incident occurred roughly in the month given above. Furthermore, I promise to withdraw my support for this flag if this user makes me whole in the future.

Lutpin said to Timelord that he will send them their share which timelord refused IIRC and created tag type 3.

Timelord wasn't in signature campaign, even if was, money was sent to participants so no one really can create flag 2/3 for signature campaign.

Also, no one can create flag type 2 or 3 if lutpin's account was sold or hacked.

I didn't make these rules, I am just pointing that flags type 2 or 3 can't be supported based on opinion and flags for 1 thing can't be supported because user did something different, in this case, you can't support flag because lutpin didn't send money for signature campaign.

No hard feelings, it is just my observation about new system.


I think there’s enough evidence there to support this specific flag. Maybe Lutpin can come into this thread & explain why he won’t distribute those funds.
He literally said he will  Huh  Huh

Here, in specific case:
Quote
If and when they are distributed, they should go to those who have contributed back then, not be forwarded to be allocated to and by someone else.
While I respect the time spent and work done here, this is not what the donations were made for.

Based on that, I do not plan to send the full amount to Timelord to be held in the new donation address.
I however do recognize that Timelord did actively contribute to the mexxer-2 thread and would be more than happy to forward them part of the donations for that help.
If Timelord wants to send me an address to where I can do that, and then send those funds on to the new donation address, that's their decision.


Also, if anybody had sent funds to the donation address I control and disagrees with my decision, they can contact me and upon verifying their donation, I will refund them, should they not be happy with my handling of it.

And Timelord said:

As to the remaining donation funds, I actually don't want any


Sorry for editing post few times.

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June 24, 2019, 05:38:18 PM
 #17

Lutpin went rogue a long time ago.<snip>
What you wrote is true, but after reading this thread I've got way more information than I had before about the donations and such.  I wasn't even aware there were any before Timelord2067's accusation.  If he distributes them now, all would be well, right?  If they were for a thread that's locked or inactive and not the new thread(s), why is anyone holding anything at this point?

I'm not supporting this flag right now.

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June 24, 2019, 05:38:57 PM
 #18

Thank you marlboroza, I’ve removed my support for the moment.

@Timelord - Why did you refuse to give Lutpin an address for your share to be sent to?

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June 24, 2019, 05:49:37 PM
Last edit: June 24, 2019, 06:24:17 PM by LoyceV
 #19

As to the remaining donation funds, I actually don't want any
Isn't this enough to make the whole flag worthless? If Timelord2067 refuses the money, he can't be a victim and thus can't create this flag.
Update: What suchmoon says in the next post makes sense Smiley Although it still doesn't make Timelord2067 a victim.

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June 24, 2019, 06:02:34 PM
 #20

As to the remaining donation funds, I actually don't want any
Isn't this enough to make the whole flag worthless? If Timelord2067 refuses the money, he can't be a victim and thus can't create this flag.

He may have meant that he doesn't want the personal payment that was offered but still wants Lutpin to hand over the donations to the current thread.

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