The Lightning Network FAQ

[ndalliard]

I wonder if you could open a channel to me if I closed my channel. Would you mind if we give it a try? I would close my channel. Then, you would open a 100k-120k satoshi channel to me and I would try opening back a channel with the same value.

Why a 100k-120k channel? In case I am not able to open a channel to you, I could receive ~50k-60k satoshi through your channel and refund you via an on-chain transaction. This way, we would have a perfectly balanced channel even if we fail to open another channel. I am also open to other suggestions.

hmm, i thought c-lightning doesn't allow to have more than one channel with one peer - or are you guys trying something different here?  

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[Rath_]

Yeah, sure. Let's test this out!

I have just closed the channel and the closing transaction has been already confirmed.

or console commands. I always wondered if I could get 0 sats through, but never tried by now.

Even if you managed to sign a feeless transaction, it would be rejected by the majority of the nodes. Unless you gave it directly to a miner willing to help, you would be out of luck.

hmm, i thought c-lightning doesn't allow to have more than one channel with one peer - or are you guys trying something different here?

That's exactly what we are trying to do. Why would c-lightning not support it, though? I can't find any information that states so.

[JustAnOtherLoser]

Opening a Channel worked now!

[ndalliard]

hmm, i thought c-lightning doesn't allow to have more than one channel with one peer - or are you guys trying something different here?

That's exactly what we are trying to do. Why would c-lightning not support it, though? I can't find any information that states so.

according to this issue on github it is not possible - i read it somewhere else too, but can't find the source atm

[Rath_]

according to this issue on github it is not possible - i read it somewhere else too, but can't find the source atm

Thanks for that link. I have no idea how I could have missed it.

@JustAnOtherLoser - I have just tried opening a channel and I got an error that we already have one. Sorry for causing the confusion. I have never heard people complain about this.

As we agreed earlier, I am going to send you an invoice for around half of the total channel balance and refund you via an on-chain transaction. Please, send me your Bitcoin address either here or via PM.

[JustAnOtherLoser]

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@JustAnOtherLoser - I have just tried opening a channel and I got an error that we already have one. Sorry for causing the confusion. I have never heard people complain about this.

So - Now you can't open a Channel to me? Thats really strange. I just want inbound capacity,
why you so complicated Mr. LN?  :')

[Rath_]

So - Now you can't open a Channel to me? Thats really strange. I just want inbound capacity,
why you so complicated Mr. LN?  :')

If I were running LND instead of c-lightning, we would be able to have two channels. Apparentely, it is a c-lightning limitation. As for the inbound liquidity, that's why I am asking you to pay a Lightning invoice in exchange for an on-chain transaction. The moment you pay my invoice, half of the channel balance will be moved to my side. You will be able to receive that much (minus a negligible channel reserve) through me. In other words, you will gain some inbound capacity.

[JustAnOtherLoser]

If I were running LND instead of c-lightning, we would be able to have two channels. Apparentely, it is a c-lightning limitation.

It seems like I need to dig deeper into c-lightning & LND. Thanks for helping me out!

You will be able to receive that much (minus a negligible channel reserve) through me. In other words, you will gain some inbound capacity.

I guess that "Channel reserve" triggered my Question. I send about 150 Sats through another Channel and wondered why I can't receive 1 Sat Invoices after that.

[Rath_]

It seems like I need to dig deeper into c-lightning & LND. Thanks for helping me out!

c-lightning is great if you are interested in features like dual-funding or funding multiple channels in a single transaction. LND is much better in terms of available services: ThunderHUB, Zap Wallet, Lightning Loop, Sphinx Chat and so on. I used both of them and so far I have been enjoying c-lightning more.

I guess that "Channel reserve" triggered my Question. I send about 150 Sats through another Channel and wondered why I can't receive 1 Sat Invoices after that.

Exactly. The channel reserve is usually 1%-3% of the total channel capacity. In our channel, it is equal to 1200 satoshi so you can receive 58800 satoshi through me despite that you have paid me 60k satoshi.

[Rath_]

c-lightning v0.10.1 has been released. If anyone is interested in opening a dual-funded channel then my offer still stands. Make sure to contact me before opening a channel to me so that I can adjust my funder policy.

[Wind_FURY]

I haven’t explored the website yet, but a this is a social network platform built on the Lightning Network called “Zion”, https://getzion.com/

I don’t know how it works or if it’s required that you run your own node, I hope it doesn’t have that requirement for low entry barrier for new users.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I haven’t explored the website yet, but a this is a social network platform built on the Lightning Network called “Zion”, https://getzion.com/

I like it, as an idea. It is a completely open-source censorship resistant network. As far as I can understand, you'll have to run your own LN node to be the admin of your community. I wonder if it works via an anonymous protocol such as Tor or i2p to prevent you from port forwarding so you can communicate peer-to-peer (as it promises).

The team behind this (called “n2n2”) rents nodes, so it's more like a combination of self-sovereign and business.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Instead of relay transaction/payment request, it relays encrypted message/media.

It should relay both transaction requests and encrypted messages; how else would you chat with the users and fund at the same time?

Not sure how practical is it when there are many users involved.

For the zion node? Yes, it'll become more consuming while more users enter the discussions. I guess that those $9 per month suffice the requirements for a usual community. (10-30 members)

[ndalliard]

I haven’t explored the website yet, but a this is a social network platform built on the Lightning Network called “Zion”, https://getzion.com/

I don’t know how it works or if it’s required that you run your own node, I hope it doesn’t have that requirement for low entry barrier for new users.

this is a pretty stupid idea... there is already activity pub for example, why reinvent the wheel? for what?

[Pmalek]

this is a pretty stupid idea... there is already activity pub for example, why reinvent the wheel? for what?

I am not familiar with either Zion or Activity Pub, but I don't think the idea is stupid. Besides, there isn't just one internet browser, there are many different types. There isn't one document creating and editing software, there are multiple.

Zion claims that content creators can get paid for their creations and those who consume the content can get in on it as well. Compare that with traditional social media platforms, you get nothing unless you are a famous person with millions of followers. On the other hand, the platforms make money on your data and interests. 

[ndalliard]

I am not familiar with either Zion or Activity Pub, but I don't think the idea is stupid.

if you don't know what it is, how can you think it is not stupid?

Besides, there isn't just one internet browser, there are many different types. There isn't one document creating and editing software, there are multiple.

social networks are like the internet a network, same with the telephone for example or language, or money (like bitcoin). there will be only one in the longterm (or at least one network which dominates), there will probably always be people who don't understand what networks are and therefore other monies, other internets, other social networks will exist, but as a minority...

Zion claims that content creators can get paid for their creations and those who consume the content can get in on it as well. Compare that with traditional social media platforms, you get nothing unless you are a famous person with millions of followers. On the other hand, the platforms make money on your data and interests.  

wow such a great claim, did you know that you can get paid right now for your creation? as i said, the idea is stupid

[BlackHatCoiner]

or money (like bitcoin).

You mean cryptocurrency? Bitcoin is surely not the only type of money that dominates.

there will probably always be people who don't understand what networks are and therefore other monies, other internets, other social networks will exist, but as a minority...

And what does that mean? That they shouldn't? What does it matter if the majority chose Facebook? That I should too? I may prefer using Google+ or Instagram.

[ndalliard]

You mean cryptocurrency? Bitcoin is surely not the only type of money that dominates.

look into the history of money and you will see that there was always one dominating money - i meant money and didn't say it is bitcoin atm, i am pretty sure it will be after the dollar collapses, but who knows the future

there will probably always be people who don't understand what networks are and therefore other monies, other internets, other social networks will exist, but as a minority...

And what does that mean? That they shouldn't? What does it matter if the majority chose Facebook? That I should too? I may prefer using Google+ or Instagram.

no - i don't care what you use and you are free to use whatever you want

[Pmalek]

if you don't know what it is, how can you think it is not stupid?

I am basing that solely on the info found on Zion's homepage. 

same with the telephone for example or language, or money (like bitcoin). there will be only one in the longterm (or at least one network which dominates).

I am not sure what you consider long-term but there are different currencies and languages, and depending on where you are, it's you who need to adapt and not the other way around. You can try and shop with your dominant USD or EUR or whatever in a particular country and see how far that gets you. When I was doing some work in Germany a long time ago, I asked my boss if we can speak in English because I am fluent in English and still learning German. She said no! We speak German here. In other words, you can take your dominant English language and shove it. She just said it nicely.

wow such a great claim, did you know that you can get paid right now for your creation? as i said, the idea is stupid

So what? Since when is more competition not desirable? If I buy my groceries at shop #1, I should never enter shops #2 or #3 even if they have the same or better type of offers and should consider them stupid for trying?

[BlackHatCoiner]

look into the history of money and you will see that there was always one dominating money - i meant money and didn't say it is bitcoin atm, i am pretty sure it will be after the dollar collapses, but who knows the future

But, if you examine your example, you'll see where you're wrong. You can't discourage someone from using an alternative method just because there was another before.

If USD is the one dominating at the moment, shouldn't I use Bitcoin? Just because the majority uses USD, it doesn't mean that it's better than Bitcoin. Same applies for cryptocurrencies. If you want privacy, you shouldn't choose Bitcoin just because the majority of the cryptocurrency users does; you should pick Monero instead even if Bitcoin's market cap is a hundred and sixty times higher.


And for comparison: MySpace was a social media platform which was made before Facebook while no one uses it anymore. It turns out that the greatest implementation of each invention is what makes the difference.