Bitcoin Forum
May 21, 2024, 03:44:30 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Many new traders are playing to lose  (Read 1890 times)
Bossfidelity
Copper Member
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 350
Merit: 1


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 08:05:12 AM
 #41

Trading is not an easy aspect of earning in the cryptocurrency market, must newbies rush into trading after watching some YouTube videos and feeling they're ready to commence the journey, only to get stuck in less than 3 days as a result of their capital depleted. Trading takes much more and professional traders who manage large accounts still apply due diligence before entering a trade to avoid losses.
VIP BTC
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 375
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 08:22:42 AM
 #42

Are you playing to lose or you are playing to win? a friend of mine lose all his bitcoin to trading and when he started complaining about i decide to take a look and i detected that he traded in a gambler's way.
He has 100$ and he traded just twice with 50$ which results in quick lose,im not an trading expert but most trading platforms always warn traders to limit their trading to the highest of 10$ which would have given him more chances to continue trading

Apart from not learning how trading works he is playing to lose,i think this is what many newbies are doing as well,if you are doing the same you will always end up losing your money,if you want to bet 50$ on a trade you must have thousands  of dollars on the trading platform not trading with 100$ and be praying for a miracle.

Trading is not something you can rush,expert traders out there spend days trading for profits and if a particular day is full of loss they quit trading for that day.

Your friend is not a trader but a gambler, he lost his money in a short amount of time, only 2 trades lost $ 100, that doesn't make sense, I think he needs to think about the difference between gambling and trading, you have to be a good friend to be able to teach your friends how to trade.

zacxavier
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 116
Merit: 1


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 08:27:03 AM
 #43

It is not about the amount of his trading portfolio but on his gambling ways of trading. It is also not necessary to start with 10% of trading, you could trade whatever amount you have and what is wrong about your friend is his knowledge about trading, or risk management at the very least.

I think you and your friend learned a lesson you could treasure, just remember to do the homework next time when stepping in on any trading platform.
Ridwan Fauzi
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330
Merit: 147


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 08:41:53 AM
 #44

There is no related to make same between gambling and trading, that is my point. Gambling only have 30% if you play with some strategies that you owned but in trading you have for almost 70% to gain profit with your strategy do you have.

I just weird when there is someone who made a day trading which no have knowledge against it. He only start to guessing a candle chart and set buying and selling based on that.

That is correct most of them are newbie, they forget the knowledge thing before start to trade. Because I haven't found there is someone who has a knowledge and he lost a lot of money on trading.
beachbummer
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 251
Merit: 100


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 09:32:37 AM
 #45

Whenever you trade, you should always protect your capital by setting a stop-loss order.
Maxre
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 812
Merit: 120


https://combonetwork.io/


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 09:40:17 AM
 #46

actually a new trader entered in crypto not to lose, of course, everyone who trades in crypto for profit. only emotional maturity that your friend cannot do.
trading is very different from gambling.
the trade  between profit and loss.
gambling between losing and winning.

farraddy
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 476
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 10:10:49 AM
 #47

Perhaps new traders overestimate their knowledge of the crypt and exaggerate their ability to trade. Here the risks of loss are very high. It happens when the profit from one or more successful transactions is completely lost in a few hours.

MINTER - WE MINT COINS AND CREATE THE INTERNET OF MONEY
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
Telegram  |  Bip Wallet  |  Twitter
Alluro
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 742
Merit: 19


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 10:15:40 AM
 #48

Learning is the best thing to do before start trading. All the traders have some idea about fundamental analysis and technical analysis. Those two things really important to trade.
jyotianand01
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 250



View Profile WWW
August 18, 2019, 10:49:49 AM
 #49

Trading is not a quick real scheme and if you do some research before trading then you can achieve good results. Never risk too much equity on a single trade as if that trade not favored you then you can make a big loss. Always put a stop loss to each trade so if market go against you, you limit your loss and if your trade comes to a certain profit then you can change your stop loss to your buying price to protect your investment and close your trade at your target later.


           ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄           
      ▄▄█████████████▄▄     
    ▄████████████████████▄   
  ▄████████████▌ ▀███████   
  ████████████     ▀████
   █▄
   ▐█████████   ▄▄   ▀▀   ███
█▄   ███████   ▐███▄     ████▌
██▄   █████   ▐██████▄ ▄██████
████   ▐██   ▐███████████████▌
 ████▄     ▐████████████████
  ████▄    ▄████████████████ 
   ▀████▄▄████████████████▀ 
     ▀█████████████████▀▀   
        ▀▀▀███████▀▀▀   
WPPENERGY
.World Power Production.

INNOVATION LEADERS IN THE GLOBAL
    RENEWABLE ENERGY INDUSTRY


           ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄           
      ▄▄█████████████▄▄     
    ▄████████████████████▄   
  ▄████████████▌ ▀███████   
  ████████████     ▀████
   █▄
   ▐█████████   ▄▄   ▀▀   ███
█▄   ███████   ▐███▄     ████▌
██▄   █████   ▐██████▄ ▄██████
████   ▐██   ▐███████████████▌
 ████▄     ▐████████████████
  ████▄    ▄████████████████ 
   ▀████▄▄████████████████▀ 
     ▀█████████████████▀▀   
        ▀▀▀███████▀▀▀   

..INQUIRE..
━━━━━━━━
aji567
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 728
Merit: 10


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 11:16:05 AM
 #50

Most new traders rely on luck and determination to be able to make more dollars because it is too ambitious. This must be addressed by newcomers for traders today. look at market conditions when you trade.
lolgato1
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 793
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 18, 2019, 11:22:46 AM
 #51

They are motivated by quick profits, but where is quick profit is also quick loose.
Instead of buying some coins and holding them on safe place, they choose risky move without any knowledge or strategy.


▄▄▄███████▄▄▄
▄▄█████▀▀''`▀▀█████▄▄
▄███P'            `YY██▄
▄██P'                  `Y██▄
███'                      `███
███'                         ███
▄██'   ▄█████▄▄  ,▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄p   ███
▄██▀  ,████▀P▀███.`██████████P   ▀██▄
███[ ,████ __. ███.   ,▄████▀    ███
███[ ]████████████[  ▄████▀       ███
███[ `████   ,oo2 ▄████▀'       ,███
▀██▄  `████▄▄█████d███████████   ▄██▀
▀██.   `▀▀▀▀▀▀"  Y▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀  ,██▀
███.                        ,███
▀██▄                      ▄██▀
▀███▄_                 ,███▀
▀███▄▄_          _▄▄███▀
▀▀████▄▄ooo▄▄█████▀
▀▀███████▀▀'

365

TM

EZ365 is a digital ecosystem that combines
the best aspects of online gaming, cryptocurrency
trading
and blockchain education. ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

..WHITEPAPER..    ..INVESTOR PITCH..

.Telegram     Twitter   Facebook

                       .'M████▀▀██  ██
                      W█Ws'V██  ██▄▄███▀▀█
                     i█████m.~M████▀▀██  ███
                     d███████Ws'V██  ██████
                     ****M██████m.~███f~~__mW█
          ██▀▀▀████████=  Y██▀▀██W ,gm███████
      g█████▄▄▄██   █A~`_WW Y█  ██!,████████
   g▀▀▀███   ████▀▀`_m████i!████P W███  ██
 _███▄▄▄██▀▀▀███Af`_m███   █W ███A ]███  ██
__ ~~~▀▀▀▀▄▄▄█*f_m██████   ██i!██!i███████
Y█████▄▄▄▄__. i██▀▀▀██████████ █!,██████
 8█  █▀▀█████.!██   ██████████i! █████
 '█  █  █   █W M█▄▄▄██████   ██ !██
  !███▄▄█   ██i'██████████   ██
   Y███████████.]██████████████
   █   ███████b ███   ██████
   Y   █   █▀▀█i!██   ████
    V███   █  █W Y█████
      ~~▀███▄▄▄█['███
            ~~*██

Play

            │
    │      ███
    │      ███
    │      ███
    │   │  ███
   ███  │  ███
   ███ ███ ███
 │  ███ ███ ███
███ ███ ███ ███
███ ███  │   │
███ ███  │   │
 │   │
 │

Trade

           __▄▄████▄▄
     __▄▄███████████████▄▄▄
 _▄▄█████████▀▀~`,▄████████████▄▄▄
 ~▀▀████▀▀~`,_▄▄███████████████▀▀▀
   d█~  =▀███████████████▀▀
   ]█! m▄▄ '~▀▀▀████▀▀~~ ,_▄▄
  ,W█. *████▄▄__ '  __▄▄█████
  !██P  █████████████████████
   W█. - ██████████████████▀
  i██[   ~ ▀▀█████████▀▀▀
 g███!
Y███

Learn
Yamifoud
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 2758
Merit: 517


★Bitvest.io★ Play Plinko or Invest!


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 11:32:50 AM
 #52

Most new traders rely on luck and determination to be able to make more dollars because it is too ambitious. This must be addressed by newcomers for traders today. look at market conditions when you trade.
Losing is not that they want to happen of their early trading experience but they have already. In some reason why they lose us that, they might probably drag with their emotions and make control with their mind.
Market analysis and as well as effective strategies is very helpful in order to close such chances and turning it into profiting.



.
.BIG WINNER!.
[15.00000000 BTC]


▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
██████████▀▀██████████
█████████░░░░█████████
██████████▄▄██████████
███████▀▀████▀▀███████
██████░░░░██░░░░██████
███████▄▄████▄▄███████
████▀▀████▀▀████▀▀████
███░░░░██░░░░██░░░░███
████▄▄████▄▄████▄▄████
██████████████████████

▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
██████████████████████
█████▀▀█▀▀▀▀▀▀██▀▀████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░░████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░▄████
█████░░▄███▄░░░░██████
█████▄▄███▀░░░░▄██████
█████████░░░░░░███████
████████░░░░░░░███████
███████░░░░░░░░███████
███████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄███████

██████████████████████
▀████████████████████▀
▄████████████████████▄
███████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
███████████▀▀▄▄█░░░░░█
█████████▀░░█████░░░░█
███████▀░░░░░████▀░░░▀
██████░░░░░░░░▀▄▄█████
█████░▄░░░░░▄██████▀▀█
████░████▄░███████░░░░
███░█████░█████████░░█
███░░░▀█░██████████░░█
███░░░░░░████▀▀██▀░░░░
███░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░░░

██░▄▄▄▄░████▄▄██▄░░░░
████████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██
█████████████░█▀▀▀█░███
██████████▀▀░█▀░░░▀█░▀▀
███████▀░▄▄█░█░░░░░█░█▄
████▀░▄▄████░▀█░░░█▀░██
███░▄████▀▀░▄░▀█░█▀░▄░▀
█▀░███▀▀▀░░███░▀█▀░███░
▀░███▀░░░░░████▄░▄████░
░███▀░░░░░░░█████████░░
░███░░░░░░░░░███████░░░
███▀░██░░░░░░▀░▄▄▄░▀░░░
███░██████▄▄░▄█████▄░▄▄

██░████████░███████░█
▄████████████████████▄
████████▀▀░░░▀▀███████
███▀▀░░░░░▄▄▄░░░░▀▀▀██
██░▀▀▄▄░░░▀▀▀░░░▄▄▀▀██
██░▄▄░░▀▀▄▄░▄▄▀▀░░░░██
██░▀▀░░░░░░█░░░░░██░██
██░░░▄▄░░░░█░██░░░░░██
██░░░▀▀░░░░█░░░░░░░░██
██░░░░░▄▄░░█░░░░░██░██
██▄░░░░▀▀░░█░██░░░░░██
█████▄▄░░░░█░░░░▄▄████
█████████▄▄█▄▄████████

▀████████████████████▀




Rainbot
Daily Quests
Faucet
Reid
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 2884
Merit: 642


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 11:45:28 AM
 #53

You should tell that to him.
Give him some good advise.
Yes it should not be rushed. It is not something that can be learned in just a day. But for $100, I do think that is a good start to just experience how trading works.
I did that before. My first time, $50 just so I could try it. I did it successfully though and then learned more watching videos and reading statements from users here.
dedocry
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 756
Merit: 250



View Profile
August 18, 2019, 11:48:39 AM
 #54

Trading is a very hard and disciplined job. It’s not just logged in, pressed a couple of buttons and got a profit


             ▄          ▄▄▄▄    ▄
            ███      ▄██████▀  ▀█▀
            ███     ▄██▀
            ███     ███        ▄█▄   ▄█▄ ▄█████▄▄         ▄▄██████▄      ▄█▄ ▄█████▄▄         ▄▄█████▄▄        ▄▄█████▄▄
    ▄▄▄▄▄▄  ███     ███        ███   ██████▀▀▀▀███▄     ▄███▀▀▀▀▀███▄    ██████▀▀▀▀███▄     ▄███▀▀▀▀▀███▄    ▄███▀▀▀▀▀███▄
  ▄████████▄███  ▄█████████▄   ███   ████▀      ▀███   ▄██▀       ▀██▄   ████▀      ▀███   ▄██▀       ▀█▀   ▄██▀       ▀██▄
▄███▀    ▀█████   ▀▀███▀▀▀▀    ███   ███         ███   ███         ███   ███         ███   ███              ███████████████
███   ▄▄   ▀███     ███        ███   ███         ███   ███         ███   ███         ███   ███              ███▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
███   ▀▀   ▄███     ███        ███   ███         ███   ███         ███   ███         ███   ███         ▄    ███         ▄
▀███▄    ▄█████     ███        ███   ███         ███    ███▄▄   ▄▄████   ███         ███    ███▄▄    ▄███    ███▄▄   ▄▄███
  ▀████████▀███     ███        ███   ███         ███     ▀████████▀███   ███         ███     ▀█████████▀      ▀█████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀▀   ▀       ▀          ▀     ▀           ▀         ▀▀▀▀▀   ▀     ▀           ▀         ▀▀▀▀▀            ▀▀▀▀▀

       ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
   ▄▄▀▀       ▀▀▄▄
  █               █ ▄
 █   █▀▄ ▀█▀ ▀█▀   █ ▀▄
 █   █▀▄  █   █    █  ▀▄
  █  ▀▀   ▀   ▀   █    █
▄▀ ▄▄           ▄▀    ▄▀
 ▀▀  ▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀      ▀▄
        ▀▄▄      ▄▄▀▀▄▄▀
           ▀▀▀▀▀▀

                      ▄▄▄
  ▄█▄              ▄███████▄
  ▀████▄▄         ██████▀██████▀
    ▀▀▀████▄▄     ███████████▀
    ▀██▄███████▄▄███████████
     ▄▄▄▀██████████████████
      ▀████████████████████
▀█▄▄     ▀████████████████
  ▀████████████████▀█████
    ▀████████████▀▄▄███▀
       ▀▀██████████▀▀
           ▀▀▀▀▀

               ▄▄   ▄▄
              ▄▀ ▀▀█  █
             ▄▀     ▀▀
         ▄▄▄▄█▄
     ▄█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀█▄
 ▄▀▄▀              ▀▄▀▄
█  █   ▄█▄    ▄█▄   █  █
 ▀█    ▀█▀    ▀█▀    █▀
  █                  █
   █   ▀▄      ▄▀   █
    ▀▄   ▀▀▀▀▀▀   ▄▀
      ▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀▀
New Age of DEFI
A Non-Code Platform for
Decentralized Trading Instruments

   ▄▄███████████████▄▄
 ▄█████████████████████▄
▄██████████████▀▀███████▄
████████████▀▀    ███████
█████████▀▀   ▄   ███████
██████▀▀     █    ███████
████▀       █     ███████
█████▄▄   ▄█      ███████
████████ ██▄      ███████
▀████████ ▀▄███▄▄███████▀
 ▀█████████████████████▀
   ▀▀███████████████▀▀

     ▄              ▄
   ▄███▄          ▄███▄
   █████▄  ▄▄▄▄  ▄█████
  ▄████████████████████▄
 ▄██████████████████████▄
 ████████████████████████
██████▀▀          ▀▀██████
█████▀   ▄      ▄   ▀█████
 ████   ███    ███   ████
  ████   ▀      ▀   ████
   ▀████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀
     ▀▀████████████▀▀

   ▄▄████████████████▄▄
 ▄█████▀▀▀██████▀▀▀█████▄
▄████▀  ▀▀▀    ▀▀▀  ▀████▄
████▀                ▀████
███▀                  ▀███
███       ▄    ▄       ███
██▀      ███  ███      ▀██
██       ▀█▀  ▀█▀       ██
██▄     ▄        ▄     ▄██
▀██▄     ▀▀▄▄▄▄▀▀     ███▀
 ▀███▄▄▄▄▄▄████▄▄▄▄▄▄███▀
   ▀▀████████████████▀▀
breathlessz
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 770
Merit: 12

Trphy.io


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 11:57:17 AM
 #55

Most new traders rely on luck and determination to be able to make more dollars because it is too ambitious. This must be addressed by newcomers for traders today. look at market conditions when you trade.
Losing is not that they want to happen of their early trading experience but they have already. In some reason why they lose us that, they might probably drag with their emotions and make control with their mind.
Market analysis and as well as effective strategies is very helpful in order to close such chances and turning it into profiting.
the most decisive is emotions that are not yet stable, where experience is still minimal. they are still happy to make drama by telling others about the incident that happened to him, indirectly, this will interfere psychologically, which will be easily influenced by the decisions of others


The Cryptologist
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 546
Merit: 100


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 12:01:35 PM
 #56

Are you playing to lose or you are playing to win? a friend of mine lose all his bitcoin to trading and when he started complaining about i decide to take a look and i detected that he traded in a gambler's way.
He has 100$ and he traded just twice with 50$ which results in quick lose,im not an trading expert but most trading platforms always warn traders to limit their trading to the highest of 10$ which would have given him more chances to continue trading

Apart from not learning how trading works he is playing to lose,i think this is what many newbies are doing as well,if you are doing the same you will always end up losing your money,if you want to bet 50$ on a trade you must have thousands  of dollars on the trading platform not trading with 100$ and be praying for a miracle.

Trading is not something you can rush,expert traders out there spend days trading for profits and if a particular day is full of loss they quit trading for that day.

$100 is just a small amount and it was a good lesson for him. But you are right, he could have started small but it can also be beneficial because sooner or later he will do the gambling with big amounts so it's a good thing that the already knows that it don't work and it needs a lot of precautions.  But newbies are really bound to lose first before they feel the rhythm of the game they entered and then finally profiting after.
Samayuki
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 24


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 12:11:00 PM
 #57

No matter how very careful you are when trading you will sometimes always lose thats why its better to quit trading when you keep losing over and over,since no one can predict market movement anything can happen when you are trading,sometimes you will keel wining and sometimes you will lose too

▬▬▬▬▬▬▌   Vulcan Forged    ▐▬▬▬▬▬▬
▬▬▬▬▬▬▌    Telegram   ▌    Discord      ▌     Twitter      ▐▬▬▬▬▬▬
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬   DISCOVER   ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
qweqwe2121
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 630
Merit: 13

Crypto ✪ Enthusiast


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 12:17:32 PM
 #58

Trading is almost like gambling, there we have to think clearly and not rush to take steps. If it is not sure to hold please sell if you lose 2-5%. Until now I have remained hodl despite losing more than 25% of my assets. Because trading money is not from main income.
keziakusayang
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 100



View Profile
August 18, 2019, 12:30:03 PM
 #59

it's better to learn to trade first before starting, losses are a risk. you must know what trading method you are playing, whether it is daytrade or longtrade. we must be realistic when taking advantage. if the capital is small don't dream to get a lot of profit immediately.
losing is a risk.
if you don't want to try again it means you are not a trader.
no trader always experiences profit.
el kaka22
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 3528
Merit: 1162


www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games


View Profile
August 18, 2019, 03:10:40 PM
 #60

As long as people are in bitcoin world (or generally crypto) it is fine by me even if they lose. That just means there is more people involved in crypto, if there are winners there has to be losers as well and if they are idiots who do not really care about crypto and learn how to trade which means it is their own choice and I am fine with it, that means I am facing a bad trader who doesn't know what they are doing and that would end with me making more money since they don't know but I do.

Bitcoin needs idiots as well, everyone is so suspicious of everyone and we are thinking there is some shady stuff going on with it and everywhere there is manipulators and speculators trying to make moves that would make them more money than normally would have. So if we have couple of idiots that is just fine, we have enough smart people some idiots would be great.

█████████████████████████
███████▄▄▀▀███▀▀▄▄███████
████████▄███▄████████
█████▄▄█▀▀███▀▀█▄▄█████
████▀▀██▀██████▀██▀▀████
████▄█████████████▄████
███████▀███████▀███████
████▀█████████████▀████
████▄▄██▄████▄██▄▄████
█████▀▀███▀▄████▀▀█████
████████▀███▀████████
███████▀▀▄▄███▄▄▀▀███████
█████████████████████████
.
 CRYPTOGAMES 
.
 Catch the winning spirit! 
█▄░▀███▌░▄
███▄░▀█░▐██▄
▀▀▀▀▀░░░▀▀▀▀▀
████▌░▐█████▀
████░░█████
███▌░▐███▀
███░░███
██▌░▐█▀
PROGRESSIVE
      JACKPOT      
██░░▄▄
▀▀░░████▄
▄▄▄▄██▀░░▄▄
░░░▀▀█░░▀██▄
███▄░░▀▄░█▀▀
█████░░█░░▄▄█
█████░░██████
█████░░█░░▀▀█
LOW HOUSE
         EDGE         
██▄
███░░░░░░░▄▄
█▀░░░░░░░████
█▄░░░░░░░░█▀
██▄░░░░░░▄█
███▄▄░░▄██▌
██████████
█████████▌
PREMIUM VIP
 MEMBERSHIP 
DICE   ROULETTE   BLACKJACK   KENO   MINESWEEPER   VIDEO POKER   PLINKO   SLOT   LOTTERY
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!