How to avoid getting blocked on neteller/paypal/skrill/etc?

[debuni]

It is prohibited to use these services in their ToS, and so how can I avoid being found selling btc with them? I know about chargebacks and so, but I am interested about how people get banned(and how to escape it) in these platforms, though in case someone makes chargeback against you, administration can learn that you sell btc. Maybe you have a story to tell?

Only things I can think of is telling your buyer not to send additional message with transfer and do as few trades as you can on account, but I need your advice.

I recently got my account permanently restricted by Paypal with 1200$ inside, I think it's when your account activity peaks at a moment, and I think it was my fault I received almost 60 payments of the same amount while the activity of my account was very limited before. But what annoys me is that paypal is not at all receptive to explanations from my side and is like "shut up and wait for the 180 days to recover your money"

I sent an email where I threaten them with legal pursuits but I know very well that it is totally useless

[Kyraishi]

I have been using Paypal since 2006, and I have already made several transfers (in or out) with 4 digit numbers, I have never had any problems like that. The only times they ask me to send my ID card (again, since I'm verified) is because they apply a directive from EU about AML. When we received +$2500 the same year, we need to provide our ID card,(only EU users ofc.).

And I find it stupid because every year, my name and my DOB are the same.

That's because you likely have a fully verified account (verified bank account, verified passport, verified address), if you don't have this, they are a pain in the ass with your funds and will often either limit your account, or block the transaction. Pretty stupid tbh.

For skrill and neteller, from the look of this thread, I wouldn't recommend. Paypal definitely seems to be the popular option here.

I agree with you for PayPal, from what I've seen theres a 1,000 USD limit on transactions (so after you have more then 1,000 in your paypal balance, your account gets locked and you need to have ID before your able to use the account again), pretty easy to avoid, just make sure you spend/withdraw money from your PayPal.

Guys, you realize it's not only about avoiding a block on Paypal etc, but also related to the crypto trading right?

Yep, but the main issue here is that often crypto trading means a block on paypal. The best way to avoid this is to literally never mention the word crypto to paypal, and if they somehow manage to charge back a friends and family payment, you're screwed.

[OmegaStarScream]

If PayPal has a very strict policy regarding crypto trading as everyone is saying, why would they allow merchants to have accounts related to crypto in that case? There are multiple reputable exchanges like Coinbase and Virwox that have been dealing with PP/BTC for a few years now and I haven't heard of anyone having his account blocked after using these services.

[malevolent]

If PayPal has a very strict policy regarding crypto trading as everyone is saying, why would they allow merchants to have accounts related to crypto in that case? There are multiple reputable exchanges like Coinbase and Virwox that have been dealing with PP/BTC for a few years now and I haven't heard of anyone having his account blocked after using these services.

One doesn't exclude the other, they may trust a company like Coinbase which performs KYC on its users more than some random person/company.

Also, some banks don't allow their users to send money even to Coinbase or Bitstamp.

[robelneo]

It is prohibited to use these services in their ToS, and so how can I avoid being found selling btc with them? I know about chargebacks and so, but I am interested about how people get banned(and how to escape it) in these platforms, though in case someone makes chargeback against you, administration can learn that you sell btc. Maybe you have a story to tell?

Only things I can think of is telling your buyer not to send additional message with transfer and do as few trades as you can on account, but I need your advice.

Bases on my experienced if you trade on unverified account many times, they are going to limit your account, I always make sure to as if they have a veried account before I make a transaction, another thing is using a VPN to access your account, do not log in to your account on unfamiliar device and location, they will ask you for verification if you still own that account, and of course transacting funds beyond your limit is another thing.

[febriyana]

I often using paypal to buy / sell bitcoin.
Just sent to your seller/buyer as gift (as Family / Friend).
Don't fill the the message box. Sent!

Just use your real ip, verified account, and maybe withdraw some cash from your paypal 1 - 2 times per month.
So more likely normal person.

[audaciousbeing]

It is prohibited to use these services in their ToS, and so how can I avoid being found selling btc with them? I know about chargebacks and so, but I am interested about how people get banned(and how to escape it) in these platforms, though in case someone makes chargeback against you, administration can learn that you sell btc. Maybe you have a story to tell?

Only things I can think of is telling your buyer not to send additional message with transfer and do as few trades as you can on account, but I need your advice.

The simple way to avoid getting banned is to not do what they disallowed on their platform and for you to accept their TOS means you have signed away your liberty as they can ban you anytime they so wish. If anyone should even give you an approach to break the rule and get away with it, it will only work in a while and you put yourself in more risk because these companies carry out routine audit which they won't inform you of commencement and unfortunately for you, it might be at the time when you are now comfortable, majority of your funds are there, you are closing deals, customers are beginning to trust your services, they will gladly activate their punishment for breaking their rule.

[1Referee]

If PayPal has a very strict policy regarding crypto trading as everyone is saying, why would they allow merchants to have accounts related to crypto in that case?

I think it's more related to the fact that you aren't actually using PayPal to sell crypto. The selling crypto to fiat part happens on Coinbase, where after that Coinbase credits your account with whatever the value was of your transaction. All you are doing is basically request a withdrawal of the fiat in your balance to have it be withdrawn to your PayPal account.

Additionally, they might have whitelisted Coinbase's PayPal accounts just so that they aren't flagged falsely.

It's far different from people legit using PayPal to settle crypto (including mining hardware) buys/sales. This is against PayPal's terms and they flat out will block your account for that.

[LeGaulois]

@1Referee

I think different. Coinbase isn't a Paypal customer but a partner so it's a lot different and that's how they get away with Paypal ToS.
Do you remember when it started it was for the US citizens only. If Coinbase was just another customer the feature would be already available in all countries Paypal support.

As for Virwox, it's because people aren't buying bitcoins directly, they're buying Lindens. They then buy bitcoins and it becomes of out Paypal scope

[timerland]

If PayPal has a very strict policy regarding crypto trading as everyone is saying, why would they allow merchants to have accounts related to crypto in that case? There are multiple reputable exchanges like Coinbase and Virwox that have been dealing with PP/BTC for a few years now and I haven't heard of anyone having his account blocked after using these services.

One doesn't exclude the other, they may trust a company like Coinbase which performs KYC on its users more than some random person/company.

Also, some banks don't allow their users to send money even to Coinbase or Bitstamp.

A lot of banks don't like dealing with crypto-currencies, and PayPal's much the same. Pretty risky business to perform crypto trades via it because the buyer protection that is advertised is gone the second you mention BTC.

I'm going to recommend just dealing with Bank transfers, those are irreversible and you won't need to deal with the kyc or charge back bullshit other companies have

[BitHodler]

I'm going to recommend just dealing with Bank transfers, those are irreversible and you won't need to deal with the kyc or charge back bullshit other companies have

Irreversible transactions and banks don't go well together. I can make something up so that the bank is on my side to undo the initial transaction, especially when I say that I got scammed by a crypto company.

Banks generally don't like crypto companies, which means that you have something to exploit here. Miners are quite expensive, especially in larger quantities, so the incentive to pull off a scam is there.

Never underestimate scammers. They will find a way to make it happen as long as the money on the line is worth it. It has been happening outside the crypto world for decades, so why wouldn't it happen here?

[malevolent]

Irreversible transactions and banks don't go well together. I can make something up so that the bank is on my side to undo the initial transaction, especially when I say that I got scammed by a crypto company.

Banks generally don't like crypto companies, which means that you have something to exploit here. Miners are quite expensive, especially in larger quantities, so the incentive to pull off a scam is there.

Never underestimate scammers. They will find a way to make it happen as long as the money on the line is worth it. It has been happening outside the crypto world for decades, so why wouldn't it happen here?

Depends on the banking system, often if the funds are cleared, the most the scammer can do is file a police report or contact their bank, and your bank might freeze the money. The banks might ask for evidence from both sides, if neither side provides strong enough evidence then things might have to be settled in court.

[cashfairy]

Irreversible transactions and banks don't go well together. I can make something up so that the bank is on my side to undo the initial transaction, especially when I say that I got scammed by a crypto company.

Banks generally don't like crypto companies, which means that you have something to exploit here. Miners are quite expensive, especially in larger quantities, so the incentive to pull off a scam is there.

Never underestimate scammers. They will find a way to make it happen as long as the money on the line is worth it. It has been happening outside the crypto world for decades, so why wouldn't it happen here?

Depends on the banking system, often if the funds are cleared, the most the scammer can do is file a police report or contact their bank, and your bank might freeze the money. The banks might ask for evidence from both sides, if neither side provides strong enough evidence then things might have to be settled in court.

see, bank transfer has still advantage
funds maybe get frozen for some time in very rare cases but you have chance to clarify in court
in paypal decides on your money paypal crew
i never can understand how paypal got legally such rights, thats the reason i never dare to hold there more than 100$

 

[cashfairy]

If PayPal has a very strict policy regarding crypto trading as everyone is saying, why would they allow merchants to have accounts related to crypto in that case? There are multiple reputable exchanges like Coinbase and Virwox that have been dealing with PP/BTC for a few years now and I haven't heard of anyone having his account blocked after using these services.

have same question always, how strict is paypal and skrill policy regarding crypto trading?
really have had no time to read 100 pages A4 of TOS
btw bitcoin is here product  lets say paypal and skrill dont allow BTC trade, then they are illegal here because they offer service
to buy goods online but at same time they dont allow to do that  ironic isnt it

[malevolent]

see, bank transfer has still advantage
funds maybe get frozen for some time in very rare cases but you have chance to clarify in court
in paypal decides on your money paypal crew
i never can understand how paypal got legally such rights, thats the reason i never dare to hold there more than 100$

Yes, that was exactly my point, as far as reversible/online legacy fiat payments go, bank transfers are among the safest. With PP, Venmo, neteller and similar you have to raise your prices accordingly because the risk is significantly higher that you'll lose money.

[timerland]

I'm going to recommend just dealing with Bank transfers, those are irreversible and you won't need to deal with the kyc or charge back bullshit other companies have

Irreversible transactions and banks don't go well together. I can make something up so that the bank is on my side to undo the initial transaction, especially when I say that I got scammed by a crypto company.

Banks generally don't like crypto companies, which means that you have something to exploit here. Miners are quite expensive, especially in larger quantities, so the incentive to pull off a scam is there.

Never underestimate scammers. They will find a way to make it happen as long as the money on the line is worth it. It has been happening outside the crypto world for decades, so why wouldn't it happen here?

That is true actually, my bad, there where examples of unauthorized transactions at my bank and it was fairly easy for me to get the money back, and only took a couple of weeks.

There's actually no real way I can think of where you are fully secure then, except cash trades and cash deposits, which are 100 percent irreversible, banks really do make things difficult for crypto.

[judeafante]

It is prohibited to use these services in their ToS, and so how can I avoid being found selling btc with them? I know about chargebacks and so, but I am interested about how people get banned(and how to escape it) in these platforms, though in case someone makes chargeback against you, administration can learn that you sell btc. Maybe you have a story to tell?

Only things I can think of is telling your buyer not to send additional message with transfer and do as few trades as you can on account, but I need your advice.

I have friends who got limited, because of using tor, and VPN using VPN is a big no no, and if they found out that you are engaged in buying and selling Crypto currency, you will also get limited, Paypal is monitoring all the activities of their clients, so be aware of this and avoid, breaking their TOS and their rules, so you'll have a good standing in Paypal, I think Skrill and Netteller Implemented the same rule.

[1Referee]

Irreversible transactions and banks don't go well together. I can make something up so that the bank is on my side to undo the initial transaction, especially when I say that I got scammed by a crypto company.

I doubt that still works these days.

Another aspect that people forget is that in most cases it's not a direct bank to bank transfer, but more like; your bank to intermediary bank, to possibly another intermediary bank, to the actual destination bank.

I read about an awful lot of complaints locally of people who wired money to an actual scammer, therefore filed a legit scam report, but the bank and the police department usually don't act unless the amounts are crazy high. With that in mind, I wish anyone good luck trying to request a fraudulent charge back or file a scam report.

No bank will cooperate with your fake scam report if they aren't even willing to help you with actual proof. On top of that, who do you think they believe, a multi billion dollar company with tens of thousands of satisfied customers, or you? 

[malevolent]

I read about an awful lot of complaints locally of people who wired money to an actual scammer, therefore filed a legit scam report, but the bank and the police department usually don't act unless the amounts are crazy high. With that in mind, I wish anyone good luck trying to request a fraudulent charge back or file a scam report.

No bank will cooperate with your fake scam report if they aren't even willing to help you with actual proof. On top of that, who do you think they believe, a multi billion dollar company with tens of thousands of satisfied customers, or you? 

It depends on the country, but if you hire a lawyer and take things to court, chances are the bank will freeze the money, and you'll eventually get it. Of course it has to be a legitimate claim, it won't work if someone's trying to commit chargeback fraud.