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Author Topic: Where is your new Bitcointalk? #RaiseYourVoice  (Read 373 times)
2double0
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September 22, 2019, 06:20:29 AM
 #1

Being in development since 2017, it has already taken around 2 years to build a $1.5 million forum with top security and what not. I wish to know when are you guys planning to make us switch to it completely from here? I tried to visit the beta but I was unfortunate because it didn't open. Is it still in developing phase? Where can I find a list of the bugs (old and new) that are being reported? Can I be a beta tester like other members? Does it really take this long to complete a project that's already 2 years old and yet not finished?

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September 22, 2019, 07:30:49 AM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (1)
 #2

Being in development since 2017, it has already taken around 2 years to build a $1.5 million forum with top security and what not. Is it still in developing phase?  Does it really take this long to complete a project that's already 2 years old and yet not finished?

I guess the epochtalk was in development since 2013 and as far as we know the main development phase is complete.

Quote
I tried to visit the beta but I was unfortunate because it didn't open.
Not true. The test forum is live here : Coinbistro You can register in the forum and can find defects.

Quote
Where can I find a list of the bugs (old and new) that are being reported?
The issues found by you can be posted here : https://github.com/epochtalk/epochtalk

Quote
Can I be a beta tester like other members?
Why not? Go ahead and test the forum. Here is the announcement by Cryptios for testing the test forum : Coinbistro.com - Epochtalk testing grounds
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September 22, 2019, 07:34:33 AM
Last edit: September 22, 2019, 07:48:58 AM by tranthidung
Merited by DdmrDdmr (1)
 #3

Being in development since 2017, it has already taken around 2 years to build a $1.5 million forum with top security and what not. I wish to know when are you guys planning to make us switch to it completely from here? I tried to visit the beta but I was unfortunate because it didn't open. Is it still in developing phase?
Here:
The software is substantially complete. The main period of development was a while ago; the current work is mainly just maintenance & relatively minor improvements. Try running it yourself and you'll find that it's working, fast, and nearly feature-complete.

The things blocking a transition from the current software to the new software are:
 - There hasn't been enough testing. I think that immediately after transition, a variety of small missed features, bugs, and performance issues would crop up. As a result, if the transition happened now (which is technically possible!), I'd expect the post-transition user experience to be poor for months while these things are fixed, which I don't want.
 - I am the only bitcointalk.org sysadmin and on-demand programmer, and I'm used to the current software. Furthermore, I need to frequently make changes to the current software, but each change I make might require alterations to Epochtalk, which is problematic.
 - The current PHP software, while ugly and sub-optimal in many ways, performs well, especially since I have extensively modified the backend to add features and improve performance. So I don't feel much urgency.
 - The data-transition procedure still has a few known minor bugs.
 
We continue to work on these issues. I think that ultimately I may need to hire one or more full-time people, since a big problem is that the full transition is likely to create a ton of work which I won't be able to effectively handle alone.

The software is not vaporware (it's long existed in a runnable state, and is currently basically feature-complete), and is not abandoned (look at the git commit log). If anyone is unhappy with the progress, I invite them to take the Epochtalk code and create a competing forum with it; since they won't have to worry about the transition issues, they'd have a much easier time, and their testing will also end up helping us.

In short: If you want the software quicker, go run your own forum with it, and work to get any problems or missing features you find resolved via bug reports, etc. This would increase public interest, provide much-needed testing, and I might even hire you to work on bitcointalk.org when we're ready to do the final transition here.

Quote
Where can I find a list of the bugs (old and new) that are being reported? Can I be a beta tester like other members? Does it really take this long to complete a project that's already 2 years old and yet not finished?
There is at least one forum that use Epochtalk's source code, and theymos donated the one who set up and run that forum. You can join that forum, and test, report bugs, etc.

Epochtalk is ready, theymos wants us to test it. C'mon...
Cryptos-Currencies.Com : First forum using Epochtalk
Here: www.cryptos-currencies
Reminder:
Anyone using this (or any other "unofficial" test site) please keep in mind privacy and safety implications:

- don't use your bitcointalk username or otherwise link yourself between sites if your don't want to expose your IP to third parties;
- don't use the same e-mail and/or password;
- don't assume other users have the same usernames.

I'm pretty sure there are many other pitfalls. Be smart please.
And, Cryptios team managed their forum too: Coinbistro.com - Epochtalk testing grounds




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October 17, 2019, 12:11:04 PM
 #4

I thank you guys for replying me back, this deepened my eagerness to know why they made us wait this long and are failed to deliver the forum without any issues while it's already towards its run to the end of 2019? If these services are taking too long to be tested, how long will it take to get the taste of the final version of the million dollar forum? Why not hire a group of technically sound people from this forum and take them there, ask them to try it while giving them some bounty to describe the bad bugs of the new forum? I mean too many of those will not like to do it for free.

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October 17, 2019, 01:04:02 PM
 #5

<  >
This is somewhat of a transition, and any sort of transition takes time to start working and be in full effect without any problems whatsoever. I've seen so many questions on the new forum software, why are we in a hurry to migrate to the new forum.

If you're to ask me, it's best Theymos takes his time in order to make sure that when the forum is set and working there would be no bugs or hitches inherent in it, I do not see what the hurry is all about.
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October 17, 2019, 01:33:11 PM
 #6

I thank you guys for replying me back, this deepened my eagerness to know why they made us wait this long and are failed to deliver the forum without any issues while it's already towards its run to the end of 2019? If these services are taking too long to be tested, how long will it take to get the taste of the final version of the million dollar forum? Why not hire a group of technically sound people from this forum and take them there, ask them to try it while giving them some bounty to describe the bad bugs of the new forum? I mean too many of those will not like to do it for free.
I live my life by this; Everything will take longer than you predict. If that's nipping down to the shop to get a pint of milk or if its developing a million dollar forum. It will always take longer than predicted. I'm not sure if you've developed software before, but its especially true when it comes to coding, and working out bugs. Its not as simple as identifying all the bugs, and fixing them over a weekend. You need to first thoroughly test the software in order to identify any bugs which can take a long time depending on the amount of users contributing.  If you look at the beta forum there hasn't been too much community contribution in terms of using the software, and identifying bugs. However, in the background the developers are likely constantly at work.

There's also the issue of running into a bug which causes a problem which can only be solved by rewriting a piece of code, and as soon as you change a piece of code that could potentially break something else unexpectedly. This is the life of a software developer, and giving an estimation on a piece of software is almost impossible to do.

We will likely be warned when the transition is going to take place. Copying live data into the new software will likely mean when the initial launch has been made any posts on the live software will not be copied to the new software, unless they're mirroring the site before switching the site to the new software which could be a possibility. I imagine some downtime will be expected upon the launch to iron out any issues.

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October 17, 2019, 02:13:14 PM
 #7

We will likely be warned when the transition is going to take place. Copying live data into the new software will likely mean when the initial launch has been made any posts on the live software will not be copied to the new software, unless they're mirroring the site before switching the site to the new software which could be a possibility. I imagine some downtime will be expected upon the launch to iron out any issues.

I had typed a huge post about how to migrate it smoothly but then I realized that a multi-million-dollar project isn't gonna give a shit about some random advice here Smiley

All I can say is that I'm all for agile development but from what I observed this Epochtalk clusterfuck is a bit too anarchist for my taste. I hope my impression is wrong.

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October 17, 2019, 03:36:46 PM
 #8

I'm fairly content staying where we currently are.

I have never been a fan of the new forum's main page design and every time new designs shift towards borderless, clean, minimalist aesthetics, it always ends up abysmal.

Let me fit one beloved webpage of mine towards the forum.



Why is this forum so ugly?

Because it doesn't need to be fancy. The web has become clogged with needless crap because it makes you feel suave
that your looking at something cool and wow isn't this neat oh cool its so smooth

Meanwhile, it takes an extra 3 seconds to load crap because your browsers
gotta do some processing to put some goddamned text on your screen.
NO. NO NO NO NO.



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October 17, 2019, 10:19:10 PM
 #9

We are waiting for full release of new forum software for so long that I don't even expect that it will be implemented here anytime soon. And I don't wait for it, because I'm fine with current version of forum. As @actmyname said, most of us don't need something fancy. And probably moving forum to new software won't be easy thing - theymos will need to everything very accurately that moving would happen smoothly without big issues.
And I don't know how much exactly was spent to create Epochtalk, but probably it will be most expensive forum in the world.




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October 18, 2019, 04:49:02 AM
 #10

I'm fairly content staying where we currently are.

I have never been a fan of the new forum's main page design and every time new designs shift towards borderless, clean, minimalist aesthetics, it always ends up abysmal.

Let me fit one beloved webpage of mine towards the forum.

There is more to a forum than visuals, but I can agree, I'm also not a huge fan of 'minimalist' aesthetics. But I do like how posts' width is decreased, it's easier to read posts faster on a widescreen.

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October 18, 2019, 01:04:33 PM
Last edit: October 18, 2019, 01:18:02 PM by 2double0
 #11

I'm fairly content staying where we currently are.

I have never been a fan of the new forum's main page design and every time new designs shift towards borderless, clean, minimalist aesthetics, it always ends up abysmal.

Let me fit one beloved webpage of mine towards the forum.

...snip...

If this thing does not fit our taste at all during these times, how likely will people want to migrate to the new forum? And if it is not going to be liked, I don't get the reasoning why admins spent a million bucks behind something that is not being liked by we, the end users.

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October 18, 2019, 01:10:24 PM
 #12

There is more to a forum than visuals, but I can agree, I'm also not a huge fan of 'minimalist' aesthetics.
I don't know if I'm a fan of minimalism either, but I do know that I very much like the way the forum is now, and I suppose it is minimalistic.  It's very easy to use, doesn't have a bunch of unnecessary frills, and can do everything I need.  If this new forum software never gets released, I'd be very okay with that--but then I'd wonder where all the forum funds went, and I don't think Theymos would waste a bunch of money on software only to never use it.

I'm fairly content staying where we currently are.

I have never been a fan of the new forum's main page design and every time new designs shift towards borderless, clean, minimalist aesthetics, it always ends up abysmal.
Heh heh.  When I think of the characteristics you put in italics, I think of how many times eBay has changed its look, and nothing they've ever done has made it a better site IMO.  I would really love it if bitcointalk retained the look it had when bitcoin was started, but I'm sure that's just wishful thinking on my part.  And I haven't even seen what the new forum look is like and don't want to.  It might make me a bit sad.

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October 18, 2019, 04:16:34 PM
 #13

I don't know if I'm a fan of minimalism either, but I do know that I very much like the way the forum is now, and I suppose it is minimalistic.
It's more the whole "clean box" kind of thing that you see in new Google products nowadays. Sleek is good... but when it's padding > perimeters it's not.

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October 18, 2019, 07:00:29 PM
 #14

Being in development since 2017, it has already taken around 2 years to build a $1.5 million forum with top security and what not. I wish to know when are you guys planning to make us switch to it completely from here? I tried to visit the beta but I was unfortunate because it didn't open. Is it still in developing phase? Where can I find a list of the bugs (old and new) that are being reported? Can I be a beta tester like other members? Does it really take this long to complete a project that's already 2 years old and yet not finished?

First of all, it is in development since far before 2017. Probably 2013.

You can not really say $1.5m was spent. Payment was made in parts with Bitcoin and Bitcoin had varied price at different payment date.

I'd love to know how much was paid in Bitcoin though.

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October 18, 2019, 07:06:11 PM
Merited by 100bitcoin (2)
 #15

You can not really say $1.5m was spent. Payment was made in parts with Bitcoin and Bitcoin had varied price at different payment date.

$2+ million between 2014-2017:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1559899.msg15674255#msg15674255
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2659454.msg27122179#msg27122179

Edit: some "Development" cost in 2013 as well:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=780707.msg8798606#msg8798606

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October 18, 2019, 07:32:16 PM
Last edit: October 18, 2019, 07:50:45 PM by 100bitcoin
Merited by BitCoinDream (8), newIndia (5), malevolent (2)
 #16

You can not really say $1.5m was spent. Payment was made in parts with Bitcoin and Bitcoin had varied price at different payment date.

$2+ million between 2014-2017:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1559899.msg15674255#msg15674255
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2659454.msg27122179#msg27122179

Edit: some "Development" cost in 2013 as well:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=780707.msg8798606#msg8798606

Thanks a lot. So, what I understand, the amount in BTC was not published. Rather it was published in terms of USD. It appears to be as follows...

2012: 276 USD (Ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=780707.msg8798606#msg8798606)
2013: 185751 USD (Ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=780707.msg8798606#msg8798606)
2014: 1151595.23 USD (Ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1559899.msg15674255#msg15674255)
2015: 849400 USD (Ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2659454.msg27122179#msg27122179)
2016: 36260 USD (Ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2659454.msg27122179#msg27122179)
2017: 246138 USD (Ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2659454.msg51952928#msg51952928)
2018: 272250 USD (Ref: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2659454.msg51952928#msg51952928)

So, from 2012-2018, total cost is 2741670.23 USD, i.e. $2.7m+.

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October 18, 2019, 07:48:11 PM
 #17

It appears to be as follows...

You missed a digit in 2013.

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October 18, 2019, 07:51:08 PM
 #18

It appears to be as follows...

You missed a digit in 2013.
Oops. Thanks. Corrected.

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October 19, 2019, 03:52:48 AM
 #19

If this thing does not fit our taste at all during these times, how likely will people want to migrate to the new forum? And if it is not going to be liked, I don't get the reasoning why admins spent a million bucks behind something that is not being liked by we, the end users.
It's not just a forum being developed. It's a full software that could be used by other different forums apart from just or bitcointalk.org Just like you see the forum software the bitcointalk currently uses (Simple Machines Forum Software).. It's also being widely used by other forums such as bitcoingarden.

Perhaps one of the reason they spent a million bucks was to make a software of their own and completely move away from SMF with the hope that in the long run, it would generate more income.
But just like you, I am amazed by how long it has taken to develop the software... 6 years and counting.

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