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Author Topic: Religion of Peace? Why Religion At All  (Read 687 times)
guigui371
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November 11, 2019, 11:33:41 PM
 #101



Jesus is the Son of God. He live a perfect life as a man, and being God, He was strong enough to take all the punishment for all mankind, including death. Since He did this, and then offered the salvation He won to all mankind, the rest of it is simply technicalities. The first and major technicality is faith in Jesus.

The embracing of Jesus salvation starts happening after the judgment. All we need in this life is faith.

Cool


If Jesus is the son of God, keep in mind that God is Jew, and because Marie (Jesus's mother) is a Jew, then  Jesus is a Jew (an actual historical true fact).
All of Jesus's "children" are Jew too (technically the Jew religion is passed through the mother... but let's no go this way ).
Conclusion :
All the Christians are Jew.

Other way to see it, God created all beings.
God is Jew, hence all beings are Jew. 

So how does it work ? Are Christian-Jews still accepted to heaven ?
Is heaven Jew ?
So many questions....  Cool

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November 12, 2019, 12:02:08 AM
 #102



Jesus is the Son of God. He live a perfect life as a man, and being God, He was strong enough to take all the punishment for all mankind, including death. Since He did this, and then offered the salvation He won to all mankind, the rest of it is simply technicalities. The first and major technicality is faith in Jesus.

The embracing of Jesus salvation starts happening after the judgment. All we need in this life is faith.

Cool


If Jesus is the son of God, keep in mind that God is Jew, and because Marie (Jesus's mother) is a Jew, then  Jesus is a Jew (an actual historical true fact).
All of Jesus's "children" are Jew too (technically the Jew religion is passed through the mother... but let's no go this way ).
Conclusion :
All the Christians are Jew.

Other way to see it, God created all beings.
God is Jew, hence all beings are Jew. 

So how does it work ? Are Christian-Jews still accepted to heaven ?
Is heaven Jew ?
So many questions....  Cool

Except that the New Testament record shows that Gentiles were Christian without becoming Jewish. In fact, in the Acts of the Apostles, St. Paul and Barnabas distinctly went to the leaders of the early church - Peter and the other apostles - and received a ruling from them that Gentiles didn't have to follow Jewish laws, but were still able to become Christians.

God is perfect. But if you look throughout the O.T., you see the many ways that the Jews fell from perfection... even up to the point where God had to destroy them for their disobedience. Jesus in the part of Him that is God, never was a Jew.

True Christians will make it to Heaven, no matter what else they are. A true Christian will never act 100% bad. There will always be recognizable good in him. But if his faith is becoming weak, God will do what it takes to keep him from completely falling out of faith. However, a Christian can fight God's correction enough that he loses his faith to the point that he is no longer saved. If this happens, he will never be able to be brought back to saving faith again. It's in the Bible.

Cool



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November 12, 2019, 06:07:27 AM
 #103

Bit of a digression, but shouldn't Judas be a huge hero to Christians? I don't understand how he's portayed as this monstrous evil figure.
If God's plan was that Jesus be sacrified, that Jesus surrender himself for man's sins, then didn't Judas do the same thing? Not only was he helping Jesus in his quest to be crucified, but he (Judas) also paid terribly for his 'crime'... and with God foreseeing that all this would happen, God having made Judas in such a way that he would be 100% guaranteed to 'betray' Jesus. Shouldn't Judas be revered as a Christian martyr?

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November 12, 2019, 02:40:42 PM
 #104

Bit of a digression, but shouldn't Judas be a huge hero to Christians? I don't understand how he's portayed as this monstrous evil figure.
If God's plan was that Jesus be sacrified, that Jesus surrender himself for man's sins, then didn't Judas do the same thing? Not only was he helping Jesus in his quest to be crucified, but he (Judas) also paid terribly for his 'crime'... and with God foreseeing that all this would happen, God having made Judas in such a way that he would be 100% guaranteed to 'betray' Jesus. Shouldn't Judas be revered as a Christian martyr?

Judas betrayed, for money.
Judas repented only in mental thinking, not in salvation thinking,
Judas committed suicide.
Some hero.

Just because God knows what will happen, doesn't mean He allows Himself to be aware of every aspect His own knowledge all the time. God had a timing plan for Jesus. It is even said, where the Jews did not capture Jesus because "His time had not come." God is so great that He doesn't need to know something to keep his plans from being thwarted.

All that we know about God is from God either building the knowledge into us, or from revelation directly from God. God is countless magnitudes of every form of power and weakness ahead of us than we are above microbes.

Cool

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November 12, 2019, 04:27:00 PM
 #105

Judas betrayed, for money.
Judas repented only in mental thinking, not in salvation thinking,
Judas committed suicide.
Some hero.

Judas betrayed, for money, because God made him that way.
Judas repented only in mental thinking, not in salvation thinking, because God made him that way.
Judas committed suicide because God made him that way.

So Judas was condemned to hell from the moment of his birth, without any chance to redeem himself? If he didn't betray Jesus then he would have gone against God''s plan. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

God is countless magnitudes of every form of power and weakness ahead of us than we are above microbes.

This can't be the answer to every question though.

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November 12, 2019, 05:43:33 PM
 #106

Judas betrayed, for money.
Judas repented only in mental thinking, not in salvation thinking,
Judas committed suicide.
Some hero.

Judas betrayed, for money, because God made him that way.
Judas repented only in mental thinking, not in salvation thinking, because God made him that way.
Judas committed suicide because God made him that way.

So Judas was condemned to hell from the moment of his birth, without any chance to redeem himself? If he didn't betray Jesus then he would have gone against God''s plan. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

God is countless magnitudes of every form of power and weakness ahead of us than we are above microbes.

This can't be the answer to every question though.

God gave Judas freedom to make his own decisions. God made him the way he was, because people are so weak that they cannot do anything on their own. People make their decisions, and God carries out the activities of their decisions. Since this was the way things were set up from the beginning, God would have to sin by doing the wrong that wrong decisions of mankind made Him do. This is why Jesus, who was both man and God, had to take the punishment for all mankind, including death. Since Jesus's death and suffering was a thing that God set up, God was doing only good and right in all of it. He proved this by raising Jesus from the dead.

Why might anyone think that God's greatness over mankind WASN'T the answer to everything? But if you look closely, you will see that there are other answers as well. You keep limiting your view to tininess just so you can justify yourself by trying to prove that there is no God who you are sinning against.

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November 13, 2019, 06:22:16 AM
 #107

God gave Judas freedom to make his own decisions.

Whether or not he can make his own decisions is moot though.
The point is that an all-knowing God is aware of exactly what circumstances Judas will face, and exactly what decisions he will take. And this follows for everyone, not just Judas.

Whoever goes to hell does so purely because God made them so that they would.

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November 13, 2019, 12:26:05 PM
 #108

God gave Judas freedom to make his own decisions.

Whether or not he can make his own decisions is moot though.
The point is that an all-knowing God is aware of exactly what circumstances Judas will face, and exactly what decisions he will take. And this follows for everyone, not just Judas.

Whoever goes to hell does so purely because God made them so that they would.

God gave us all free choice, so we would make our own decision for Heaven or Hell. Since He wants us to go to Heaven, if we choose Heaven, He will reinforce it in us. What does this have to do with the fact that God knows everything? You are saying two opposites at the same time. You are saying that people can make their own decisions, but that God made their decisions for them.

In addition, have you ever watched a good movie more than once? If you did, why? You already knew the outcome.

Is there anything in your life that you know all about? But you set it aside because you are focusing on something else. While God is different than we are, you can see that just knowing all about something doesn't mean you have to focus on every aspect of it all the time.

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November 13, 2019, 03:59:19 PM
 #109


God gave us all free choice,

If God really gave us the freedom of choice, why'd He have to make Jesus exist? If we really are entitled to our own choice/decision then what's the point of Him? Is God afraid that His people would disobey Him? So he created Jesus, His son, to be sacrificed, so that He can enforce His people to worship Him? If the only right thing to do is to worship Him? That's some God's plan right there. Not to mention, "a freedom of choice" indeed. What's the point of life then.

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November 13, 2019, 04:51:17 PM
 #110

God gave us all free choice, so we would make our own decision for Heaven or Hell. Since He wants us to go to Heaven, if we choose Heaven, He will reinforce it in us. What does this have to do with the fact that God knows everything? You are saying two opposites at the same time. You are saying that people can make their own decisions, but that God made their decisions for them.

No, I'm not saying God did anything. God doesn't exist.

I'm saying, hypothetically, if an all-knowing all-powerful God exists and created everything in the universe, then God already knows the outcome of everything. In such a universe "free will" and "our own decisions" become irrelevant. Everything happens because God made it so. We react in a certain way in certain situations because God made those situations and made us.

I'm saying that if God exists (which he doesn't), he condemns some people to hell from the moment he creates them. He creates a man, and he knows instantly that this man will be a murderer will never believe in God and will die at age 20 when he is shot and will never seek forgiveness for his crimes. He knows that the person he has just created will go to hell.


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November 13, 2019, 05:03:45 PM
 #111


God gave us all free choice,

If God really gave us the freedom of choice, why'd He have to make Jesus exist? If we really are entitled to our own choice/decision then what's the point of Him? Is God afraid that His people would disobey Him? So he created Jesus, His son, to be sacrificed, so that He can enforce His people to worship Him? If the only right thing to do is to worship Him? That's some God's plan right there. Not to mention, "a freedom of choice" indeed. What's the point of life then.

You have the freedom of choice to intentionally smash your thumb with a hammer. If you do it, it doesn't hurt God in the least, except that he might feel sorry for you in your stupidity. If you are living in a time or place that doesn't have bandages, God might even supply you with some material that you can use to bandage your thumb.

When God provides materials in nature so that you can fix your smashed thumb, how is it that you don't naturally want to at least thank Him?

When we talk about Jesus... Jesus is God's way of providing materials for you to bandage your broken life. If you don't want to accept salvation, okay. No skin off God's nose. He'll simply stop feeling sorry for you in your stupid state, if you are unwilling to fix yourself with the salvation that He provides. Remember, there isn't any other salvation that fixes eternal death.

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November 13, 2019, 05:14:12 PM
 #112

God gave us all free choice, so we would make our own decision for Heaven or Hell. Since He wants us to go to Heaven, if we choose Heaven, He will reinforce it in us. What does this have to do with the fact that God knows everything? You are saying two opposites at the same time. You are saying that people can make their own decisions, but that God made their decisions for them.

No, I'm not saying God did anything. God doesn't exist.

I'm saying, hypothetically, if an all-knowing all-powerful God exists and created everything in the universe, then God already knows the outcome of everything. In such a universe "free will" and "our own decisions" become irrelevant. Everything happens because God made it so. We react in a certain way in certain situations because God made those situations and made us.

I'm saying that if God exists (which he doesn't), he condemns some people to hell from the moment he creates them. He creates a man, and he knows instantly that this man will be a murderer will never believe in God and will die at age 20 when he is shot and will never seek forgiveness for his crimes. He knows that the person he has just created will go to hell.


God gave you the ability to freely choose to talk yourself into thinking that He doesn't exist. You don't have to use that free choice, of course. It's up to you.

In a God-created universe, if He created free will into it, then free-will is just as important as anything else. After all, everything happens because God made it so... even free will and free choice.

God doesn't condemn anyone to Hell. Those who go there, have condemned themselves there, by choosing to not believe the Jesus salvation that God provides.

If a badly sinful person (one who will never accept Jesus salvation) dies young, isn't it a good thing? I mean, how sadistic can you be? Do you want him to live to the age of 200, sinning worse every year than the previous year, so that he has 200 years worth of sins to pay for in eternal Hell? Wouldn't it be a whole lot better for him if he died young?

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November 14, 2019, 07:02:52 AM
Last edit: November 14, 2019, 09:10:02 AM by gabmen
 #113

God gave us all free choice, so we would make our own decision for Heaven or Hell. Since He wants us to go to Heaven, if we choose Heaven, He will reinforce it in us. What does this have to do with the fact that God knows everything? You are saying two opposites at the same time. You are saying that people can make their own decisions, but that God made their decisions for them.

No, I'm not saying God did anything. God doesn't exist.

I'm saying, hypothetically, if an all-knowing all-powerful God exists and created everything in the universe, then God already knows the outcome of everything. In such a universe "free will" and "our own decisions" become irrelevant. Everything happens because God made it so. We react in a certain way in certain situations because God made those situations and made us.

I'm saying that if God exists (which he doesn't), he condemns some people to hell from the moment he creates them. He creates a man, and he knows instantly that this man will be a murderer will never believe in God and will die at age 20 when he is shot and will never seek forgiveness for his crimes. He knows that the person he has just created will go to hell.


God gave you the ability to freely choose to talk yourself into thinking that He doesn't exist. You don't have to use that free choice, of course. It's up to you.

In a God-created universe, if He created free will into it, then free-will is just as important as anything else. After all, everything happens because God made it so... even free will and free choice.

God doesn't condemn anyone to Hell. Those who go there, have condemned themselves there, by choosing to not believe the Jesus salvation that God provides.

If a badly sinful person (one who will never accept Jesus salvation) dies young, isn't it a good thing? I mean, how sadistic can you be? Do you want him to live to the age of 200, sinning worse every year than the previous year, so that he has 200 years worth of sins to pay for in eternal Hell? Wouldn't it be a whole lot better for him if he died young?

Cool

What i find hard to grasp is that, out of the immensity of the universe, why would it's creator focus on a small speck of dust like the earth, with its different religions?

 I've tried considering this, just in our solar system itself, we're pretty small and insignificant already. Then there probably are billions of solar systems within the milky way. Then there probably are billions of galaxies that compose just the known observable universe.

Out of the immensity of this, i find it hard to comprehend that someone who created all these would spend time singling and sorting out humans for their beliefs and assigning them to a heaven or hell.

I mean, do other living organisms on other parts of the universe have their own jesuses and mohammads?

The way i see it, it's really pretty petty arguing which religion is right or which is wrong when all these vastness is laid upon you. The universe is not here for us. Instead of killing each other about which god is the right god, having petty arguments that no one really will win, we should just look after each other.

 
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November 14, 2019, 08:18:43 AM
 #114

What i find hard to grasp is that, out of the immensity of the universe, why would it's creator focus on a small speck of dust like the earth, with its different religions?

 I've tried considering this, just in our solar system itself, we're pretty small and insignificant already. Then there probably are billions of solar systems within the milky way. Then there probably are billions of galaxies that compose just the known observable universe.

Out of the immensity of this, i find it hard to comprehend that someone who created all these would spend time singling and sorting out humans for their beliefs and assigning them to a heaven or hell.

I mean, do other living organisms on other parts of the universe have their own jesus' and mohammeds?

The way i see it, it's really pretty petty arguing which religion is right or which is wrong when all these vastness is laid upon you. The universe is not here for us. Instead of killing each other about which god is the right god, having petty arguments that no one really will win, we should just look after each other.

Exactly. The universe is vast and awe-inspiring, we should take the big picture (like science does) rather than focussing on viewing everything from a human perspective. Science has proven that Earth is not the centre of the universe. And neither are the people who live on it. We need to get over ourselves.

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November 14, 2019, 04:51:58 PM
 #115

God gave us all free choice, so we would make our own decision for Heaven or Hell. Since He wants us to go to Heaven, if we choose Heaven, He will reinforce it in us. What does this have to do with the fact that God knows everything? You are saying two opposites at the same time. You are saying that people can make their own decisions, but that God made their decisions for them.

No, I'm not saying God did anything. God doesn't exist.

I'm saying, hypothetically, if an all-knowing all-powerful God exists and created everything in the universe, then God already knows the outcome of everything. In such a universe "free will" and "our own decisions" become irrelevant. Everything happens because God made it so. We react in a certain way in certain situations because God made those situations and made us.

I'm saying that if God exists (which he doesn't), he condemns some people to hell from the moment he creates them. He creates a man, and he knows instantly that this man will be a murderer will never believe in God and will die at age 20 when he is shot and will never seek forgiveness for his crimes. He knows that the person he has just created will go to hell.


God gave you the ability to freely choose to talk yourself into thinking that He doesn't exist. You don't have to use that free choice, of course. It's up to you.

In a God-created universe, if He created free will into it, then free-will is just as important as anything else. After all, everything happens because God made it so... even free will and free choice.

God doesn't condemn anyone to Hell. Those who go there, have condemned themselves there, by choosing to not believe the Jesus salvation that God provides.

If a badly sinful person (one who will never accept Jesus salvation) dies young, isn't it a good thing? I mean, how sadistic can you be? Do you want him to live to the age of 200, sinning worse every year than the previous year, so that he has 200 years worth of sins to pay for in eternal Hell? Wouldn't it be a whole lot better for him if he died young?

Cool

What i find hard to grasp is that, out of the immensity of the universe, why would it's creator focus on a small speck of dust like the earth, with its different religions?

 I've tried considering this, just in our solar system itself, we're pretty small and insignificant already. Then there probably are billions of solar systems within the milky way. Then there probably are billions of galaxies that compose just the known observable universe.

Out of the immensity of this, i find it hard to comprehend that someone who created all these would spend time singling and sorting out humans for their beliefs and assigning them to a heaven or hell.

I mean, do other living organisms on other parts of the universe have their own jesuses and mohammads?

The way i see it, it's really pretty petty arguing which religion is right or which is wrong when all these vastness is laid upon you. The universe is not here for us. Instead of killing each other about which god is the right god, having petty arguments that no one really will win, we should just look after each other.

Killing each other is not what God wanted, even when we don't know much about Him, or even recognize the same god as others believe in. Any killing has to do with getting rid of people who are so extremely evil that they are wrecking society for everyone. But we have governments to do this.

As for God creating mankind... We don't know much of the thinking of God. If God, for His own purposes, created mankind, say, to rule the universe, or to colonize other worlds, how would we know except if He made that knowledge available to us?

If people had remained in perfection (Garden of Eden) so that they never died, populating other planets is exactly the thing that God might have wanted. After all, when populations on Earth are so great that there is standing room only - and such is what would have happened if there were no sin and death, and especially if everything had remained as healthy as it was in the beginning, people would populate faster than rabbits - where would they go just to live?

God hasn't revealed the plan that He had for us at the beginning. Why not? Because we sinned, and death entered. The whole scene changed. Population no longer has to do with going to the stars. Rather, it has to do with finding a way out of death. And not out of death for those who are still alive, but out of death for all who have died, as well.

Take a look at Ancient Israel in Exodus in the Bible. Israel was going to the Promised Land. When they got to the borders, they rebelled, and didn't enter in like God wanted them to. So, God told them that they would have to spend some time (40 years) wandering around in the wilderness. But then they tried to go into the Promised Land anyway. And a bunch of them died for it.

Now, we are trying to go into space, to populate the moon and Mars. This might have been the plan in the beginning, but mankind changed the plan by sinning. It won't work... populating Mars. A bunch of people died trying for the Promised Land in the Exodus, and they will die trying for Mars.

The point? If there are aliens out there, they are only there to maintain the planets until mankind would get there. But we don't know that they are even there.

The thing we should be doing is working with God in His method for us to live forever, and to even bring back life to all those who have died. What is this method? Jesus salvation!

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November 14, 2019, 05:31:40 PM
 #116

You have the freedom of choice to intentionally smash your thumb with a hammer. If you do it, it doesn't hurt God in the least, except that he might feel sorry for you in your stupidity. If you are living in a time or place that doesn't have bandages, God might even supply you with some material that you can use to bandage your thumb.

When God provides materials in nature so that you can fix your smashed thumb, how is it that you don't naturally want to at least thank Him?

Does stupidity really apply to people? I am always skeptical about that. I think the word "stupid" is just a metaphor. Humans are naturally smart--genius even.

You said that God wouldn't be hurt in the least? (when did He ever said He wouldn't?) And here I thought God created humans according to his own image(?), hence makes His creations a replication of Himself. And therefore if His people get hurt, He will as well. After all, who wouldn't be hurt if your creation is being crushed? To sum it up, He shouldn't, wouldn't even let His people smash their own thumbs.

So you really are fixated that everything happened in your life is in this so-called "God's plan"?

Quote
When we talk about Jesus... Jesus is God's way of providing materials for you to bandage your broken life. If you don't want to accept salvation, okay. No skin off God's nose. He'll simply stop feeling sorry for you in your stupid state, if you are unwilling to fix yourself with the salvation that He provides.

Just because some people (e.g. me) does not have the same ideals as you are, makes them "stupid". And when did God became a "tyrant"? I am starting to think that, those are your words, not His.



What i find hard to grasp is that, out of the immensity of the universe, why would it's creator focus on a small speck of dust like the earth, with its different religions?

 I've tried considering this, just in our solar system itself, we're pretty small and insignificant already. Then there probably are billions of solar systems within the milky way. Then there probably are billions of galaxies that compose just the known observable universe.

Out of the immensity of this, i find it hard to comprehend that someone who created all these would spend time singling and sorting out humans for their beliefs and assigning them to a heaven or hell.

I mean, do other living organisms on other parts of the universe have their own jesuses and mohammads?

The way i see it, it's really pretty petty arguing which religion is right or which is wrong when all these vastness is laid upon you. The universe is not here for us. Instead of killing each other about which god is the right god, having petty arguments that no one really will win, we should just look after each other.

Well said. That's the main reason why I always find "religions", are just supposed to be guides, or even to have/maintain order over people, its country. That's why in the Middle Ages, they say that the Royalty and the Religion are the main pillars of a kingdom. And considering how vast the universe is, we're not the only civilization to ever exist. So other civilizations would probably have their own "God" (wouldn't probably be called God), their own "Jesus" (wouldn't probably be called Jesus as well), and their own religion(s)--that's definitely not Christianism.

Then what's that to say about this so-called "salvation"? Oh, you would probably say, "but we didn't know they exist, can you provide evidence first?", well, I could ask you the same, "can you prove to me God's existence?". Except that, those other civilizations to ever exist is closer to reality.

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November 14, 2019, 06:42:14 PM
 #117

You have the freedom of choice to intentionally smash your thumb with a hammer. If you do it, it doesn't hurt God in the least, except that he might feel sorry for you in your stupidity. If you are living in a time or place that doesn't have bandages, God might even supply you with some material that you can use to bandage your thumb.

When God provides materials in nature so that you can fix your smashed thumb, how is it that you don't naturally want to at least thank Him?

Does stupidity really apply to people? I am always skeptical about that. I think the word "stupid" is just a metaphor. Humans are naturally smart--genius even.

You said that God wouldn't be hurt in the least? (when did He ever said He wouldn't?) And here I thought God created humans according to his own image(?), hence makes His creations a replication of Himself. And therefore if His people get hurt, He will as well. After all, who wouldn't be hurt if your creation is being crushed? To sum it up, He shouldn't, wouldn't even let His people smash their own thumbs.

So you really are fixated that everything happened in your life is in this so-called "God's plan"?

Quote
When we talk about Jesus... Jesus is God's way of providing materials for you to bandage your broken life. If you don't want to accept salvation, okay. No skin off God's nose. He'll simply stop feeling sorry for you in your stupid state, if you are unwilling to fix yourself with the salvation that He provides.

Just because some people (e.g. me) does not have the same ideals as you are, makes them "stupid". And when did God became a "tyrant"? I am starting to think that, those are your words, not His.


Well, of course people are genius in the way they are built. But the question is, when is it stupid to show stupidity, and when is it genius to show stupidity?

Some people don't know that God isn't really affected within His essence by what we do. But at the raising of Lazarus, Jesus wept. I don't think He was weeping insincerely.

What does God making man in His image have to do with us? After all, man threw God's image away when mankind sinned in the Garden, by eating the apple.

You don't really need to learn what is happening in life before you can ask meaningless questions. Why not? Because, it's much easier to ask meaningless questions when you don't know what's going on.

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November 15, 2019, 12:23:32 PM
 #118

Man must believe in something
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November 15, 2019, 06:27:59 PM
 #119

Man must believe in something

Very few words, but true.

I think that's the sole purpose of religion(s). I have read a book, and in that world, there is no religion--it has been completely abolished by the government. It has been kept as a secret from the next generation. The world turns out pretty different. After reading, I've realized how powerful of an impact a religion could be. I mean it in a bad, and a good way.

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November 16, 2019, 01:42:32 AM
 #120


Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
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