Religion of Peace? Why Religion At All

[Judge-Dredd]

It's easy in today's world to blame Islam of backwards savagery against women, children, etc. Yet this is still protected by the left?

Why? When at the same time Christianity is under attack in the modern political and social climate. Other than the obvious propagation of pedophilia by the Catholic church, Christians' rape and pillaging days are over for the most part.

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it? Are there any merits left?

I understand a common argument here may be that it instills fear in common folk and helps to provide them a reason to behave but we shouldn't need the fear of deities smiting us to act as a normal citizen and respect others' rights. You can also be a hopeful human being without religion. This is not a debate of "not all the religious folk are bad eggs" the debate here is why it still exists in any form in the year 2019.

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[merchantofzeny]

Islam is RIGHT about women? 

I have no answers to why religion is still around but as to why the Left protects Islam over other religions, maybe it's a subconscious want for a strong masculine figure that has slowly been erased in the West? That or the "white guilt" that has been indoctrinated into the masses. Or maybe just virtue signalling, as vegans (which are also most likely Leftists) are wont to do.

Just saw a Jordan Peterson video talk about a woman who find her company's PC stance ridiculous. They want to rename "flipcharts" because it MIGHT be possible offensive to Filipinos.

[BADecker]

If a person doesn't have religion, he is dead, in a coma, or a vegetable. Why? Check out the definition of "religion:"

religion
[ ri-lij-uh n ]

noun

1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:
a world council of religions.

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:
to enter religion.

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

religions

7. Archaic. religious rites:
painted priests performing religions deep into the night.

8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion:
a religion to one's vow.

Find the one that fits you. If none other, 5 and 6.

[Judge-Dredd]

Islam is RIGHT about women? 

I have no answers to why religion is still around but as to why the Left protects Islam over other religions, maybe it's a subconscious want for a strong masculine figure that has slowly been erased in the West? That or the "white guilt" that has been indoctrinated into the masses. Or maybe just virtue signalling, as vegans (which are also most likely Leftists) are wont to do.

Just saw a Jordan Peterson video talk about a woman who find her company's PC stance ridiculous. They want to rename "flipcharts" because it MIGHT be possible offensive to Filipinos.

I think the primary reason it's still around is because many people feel hopeless without it. The fear of what happens after one dies. It's nice to imagine we go somewhere but the only evidence that exists shows that when we die there is nothing. We are a heap of rotting organic matter.

The flipchart reference is ridiculous... it reminds me of the "OK" sign with your hand. Someone, somewhere, somehow declared that making an OK sign with your hand actually represents a white power symbol because you know, you can abstractly see a W and a P when making the hand gesture. Pretty soon breathing will be considered racist.

@BADecker

I think you know I meant mass organized religion 

While I don't believe in any one of the thousands of proposed sky fairies I do believe something much larger than us created the universe and the laws that (for the most part) govern its existence. This belief does not come with an instructional booklet on how to behave and treat my neighbors.

[BADecker]

@BADecker

I think you know I meant mass organized religion 

While I don't believe in any one of the thousands of proposed sky fairies I do believe something much larger than us created the universe and the laws that (for the most part) govern its existence. This belief does not come with an instructional booklet on how to behave and treat my neighbors.

Yet, in mass organized religion, nobody ever believes or understands quite the same. Why not? Because religion is a personal thing. You are talking about something that doesn't really exist, even though it looks like it does.

I don't know of anyone who believes in sky fairies. Some of the children who hear about Peter Pan might come close by believing about Tinkerbell.

Nobody needs an instructional booklet on how to live. It's simple. Just like you don't want some big, mean, gruff person to damage you, essentially nobody else wants that either. Just like you might like a helping hand now and again, most people would like that, as well. The instruction booklet is simple: Do to others as you would have them do to you. Start by finding out how much they want you to leave them alone.

We make all our machines by through observing natural machinery in nature. The fact of the complex universe made out of machines, proves God. Machines have makers.

[Judge-Dredd]

@BADecker

I don't give much credence to that idea that the majority of those who participate in mass worship have distinct individuality and control over their core religious beliefs.

A common denominator is participation in things like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Church

While tithes may be voluntary it's clear where a majority of this money actually goes.

Pick their flavor sure... but they're still suckers.

I won't argue that designs and systems in nature help inspire us to invent and create. To call nature or the universe a machine however... somewhat of a chaotic machine don't you think? One that actually breaks it's own patterns and laws in different situations.

This is something that seems to come naturally to our brains. Seeing patterns and associations where they dont belong. Like a face in a wall outlet, or animals in the clouds.

Here's a question. When you see the results of a devastating natural disaster on social media or a news site and a thousands of people comment "sending prayers", are they really doing anything? Or simply satiating their own desire to "serve" as they perceive it.

[akram143]

Islam is RIGHT about women? 

I am not believing the life after death but I love few things and hate few things of islamic religion,you may say that they are keeping women as slave but why we cannot say they are protecting them?

Ignore the practices from some Arab countries they are taking the advantages of religion and marrying more women as much as they can but its not really what it meant for the multiple marriages allowed.

[Malsetid]

Islam is RIGHT about women? 

I am not believing the life after death but I love few things and hate few things of islamic religion,you may say that they are keeping women as slave but why we cannot say they are protecting them?

Ignore the practices from some Arab countries they are taking the advantages of religion and marrying more women as much as they can but its not really what it meant for the multiple marriages allowed.

It's kind of confusing sometimes since there are several interpretations of islam's teachings. Some moderate muslim can really convince you that islam is not about jihad and hate towards non-believers. I've come across some of these muslims and they're one of the most tolerant group of people i've ever encountered. And then there are the extremists who, as well all know, take the teachings of the Quran way too literally without giving ground.

[akram143]

Islam is RIGHT about women? 

I am not believing the life after death but I love few things and hate few things of islamic religion,you may say that they are keeping women as slave but why we cannot say they are protecting them?

Ignore the practices from some Arab countries they are taking the advantages of religion and marrying more women as much as they can but its not really what it meant for the multiple marriages allowed.

It's kind of confusing sometimes since there are several interpretations of islam's teachings. Some moderate muslim can really convince you that islam is not about jihad and hate towards non-believers. I've come across some of these muslims and they're one of the most tolerant group of people i've ever encountered. And then there are the extremists who, as well all know, take the teachings of the Quran way too literally without giving ground.

Everyone in this world looking for their own benefits so they are hiding under the religious thing,in my places Muslims and all other religious people were living in peace so why we see Islam as good but some Muslims are bad.We cannot oppose everyone just because of 10% doing the things in wrong way.

[BADecker]

Everyone in this world looking for their own benefits so they are hiding under the religious thing,in my places Muslims and all other religious people were living in peace so why we see Islam as good but some Muslims are bad.We cannot oppose everyone just because of 10% doing the things in wrong way.

Islam bad; Muslim hypocrite.

Islam tell Muslim kill other people - https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx. Islam bad.

Muslim hypocrite. Muslim say Islam good, but not obey Islam; not kill other people. Muslim want peace. Muslim not want Islam violence. Muslim not good Islam person. Muslim hypocrite.

ISIS good Muslim. ISIS obey Islam. ISIS do violence like Islam say to do.

[Judge-Dredd]

Islam is RIGHT about women?  

I am not believing the life after death but I love few things and hate few things of islamic religion,you may say that they are keeping women as slave but why we cannot say they are protecting them?

Ignore the practices from some Arab countries they are taking the advantages of religion and marrying more women as much as they can but its not really what it meant for the multiple marriages allowed.

It's kind of confusing sometimes since there are several interpretations of islam's teachings. Some moderate muslim can really convince you that islam is not about jihad and hate towards non-believers. I've come across some of these muslims and they're one of the most tolerant group of people i've ever encountered. And then there are the extremists who, as well all know, take the teachings of the Quran way too literally without giving ground.

Everyone in this world looking for their own benefits so they are hiding under the religious thing,in my places Muslims and all other religious people were living in peace so why we see Islam as good but some Muslims are bad.We cannot oppose everyone just because of 10% doing the things in wrong way.

This is true. I did not intend to paint all religious people as bad. There are extremists in almost every space. Any time you are using religious teachings to harm others in any way you're doing it wrong. Any time religious text tells you some subset or group of people are inferior to you, you're doing it wrong.

A point I want to make is that religion is not required to do good in this world. You can point to examples where specific churches may have helped with disaster relief or building homes for the poor, but we can accomplish these same feats without using religion as the justification to help others. Help other humans because you care about humanity not because some ancient text tells you to do so, or else.

[akram143]

Everyone in this world looking for their own benefits so they are hiding under the religious thing,in my places Muslims and all other religious people were living in peace so why we see Islam as good but some Muslims are bad.We cannot oppose everyone just because of 10% doing the things in wrong way.

Islam bad; Muslim hypocrite.

Islam tell Muslim kill other people - https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx. Islam bad.

Muslim hypocrite. Muslim say Islam good, but not obey Islam; not kill other people. Muslim want peace. Muslim not want Islam violence. Muslim not good Islam person. Muslim hypocrite.

ISIS good Muslim. ISIS obey Islam. ISIS do violence like Islam say to do.

Terrorist : Islam people + Non Islam people

ISIS : From US to make some bad thing about Islam

I am a Muslim and I never taught about we need to kill someone,Islam is peace not violence...

[BADecker]

Everyone in this world looking for their own benefits so they are hiding under the religious thing,in my places Muslims and all other religious people were living in peace so why we see Islam as good but some Muslims are bad.We cannot oppose everyone just because of 10% doing the things in wrong way.

Islam bad; Muslim hypocrite.

Islam tell Muslim kill other people - https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx. Islam bad.

Muslim hypocrite. Muslim say Islam good, but not obey Islam; not kill other people. Muslim want peace. Muslim not want Islam violence. Muslim not good Islam person. Muslim hypocrite.

ISIS good Muslim. ISIS obey Islam. ISIS do violence like Islam say to do.

Terrorist : Islam people + Non Islam people

ISIS : From US to make some bad thing about Islam

I am a Muslim and I never taught about we need to kill someone,Islam is peace not violence...

How can you be Islamic Muslim if you don't do what your religion says? Islam is peace towards other Muslims, and it might be some form of neutrality towards Christians and Jews, but it is violence to others. See https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx. Sounds like you don't even know what your religion is.

ISIS was not from the US. ISIS is Muslims living according to Islam - https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx - being helped by the US to live their religion rather than disobey... it like you are disobeying.

Terrorist = https://www.dictionary.com/browse/terrorist?s=t.
Terrorism = https://www.dictionary.com/browse/terrorism

Anybody can be a terrorist. But when a religion formally includes terrorism as part of its doctrine, and a directive for its followers to do, then the whole religion is terrorism. Islam is terrorism (see the links, above).

Maybe you are not Muslim, but only think you are.



EDIT: Of course, since Islam says that a Muslim can be deceptive with the infidels of other religions, maybe you are living your religion, after all.

[akram143]

AFAIK,only we need to do 5 things to be a muslim.

1. shahada: To bear witness that there's no god but Allah,the only one God with no one associated to Him & to bear witness that Muhammad may Allah grant Him with peace & blessings is His prophet & servant.

2. pray to God (five times a day).


3. fast the month of Ramadan.

4. Alms giving: to give money to poor (called zakat)

5. go to hajj(piligrimage to Mecca where the ka'aba is)

so I am a muslim and I dont need to know all the things wrote on Quaran.

Like you said I don't have much belief in life after death and all I want to be a good one everyone.You can call it as your religion but I say it as my religion (Islam).

[darkangel11]

AFAIK,only we need to do 5 things to be a muslim.

1. shahada: To bear witness that there's no god but Allah,the only one God with no one associated to Him & to bear witness that Muhammad may Allah grant Him with peace & blessings is His prophet & servant.

2. pray to God (five times a day).


3. fast the month of Ramadan.

4. Alms giving: to give money to poor (called zakat)

5. go to hajj(piligrimage to Mecca where the ka'aba is)

so I am a muslim and I dont need to know all the things wrote on Quaran.

Like you said I don't have much belief in life after death and all I want to be a good one everyone.You can call it as your religion but I say it as my religion (Islam).

If only all other Muslims were like you and followed those points and nothing else. Most of them follow this strange belief that they are somehow better than other religions and that it's their purpose on Earth to make those non-believers believe in Allah. This is the foundation of everything wrong with Islam.

Live and let others live!

[akram143]

AFAIK,only we need to do 5 things to be a muslim.

1. shahada: To bear witness that there's no god but Allah,the only one God with no one associated to Him & to bear witness that Muhammad may Allah grant Him with peace & blessings is His prophet & servant.

2. pray to God (five times a day).


3. fast the month of Ramadan.

4. Alms giving: to give money to poor (called zakat)

5. go to hajj(piligrimage to Mecca where the ka'aba is)

so I am a muslim and I dont need to know all the things wrote on Quaran.

Like you said I don't have much belief in life after death and all I want to be a good one everyone.You can call it as your religion but I say it as my religion (Islam).

If only all other Muslims were like you and followed those points and nothing else. Most of them follow this strange belief that they are somehow better than other religions and that it's their purpose on Earth to make those non-believers believe in Allah. This is the foundation of everything wrong with Islam.

Live and let others live!

Actually influencers changing the real fact into benefitable thing for them,trust me Islam taught these five things only to do be a complete Muslim.

Finally yes,"Live and let others live".

[TheCoinGrabber]

People need structure for life and for the most part, religion has fulfilled that role. As long as they keep it private I wouldn't mind. However I think the secular state should pursue those that use religion for harm (pedophile clerics, extremists inciting violence) and not let them hide behind "separation of Church and State".

It's kind of confusing sometimes since there are several interpretations of islam's teachings. Some moderate muslim can really convince you that islam is not about jihad and hate towards non-believers. I've come across some of these muslims and they're one of the most tolerant group of people i've ever encountered. And then there are the extremists who, as well all know, take the teachings of the Quran way too literally without giving ground.

Meh, wouldn't trust even "moderates" with the whole taqqiya thing floating about. You can never really be sure if they are telling you the truth when you ask them anything related to their religion.

[BADecker]

AFAIK,only we need to do 5 things to be a muslim.

1. shahada: To bear witness that there's no god but Allah,the only one God with no one associated to Him & to bear witness that Muhammad may Allah grant Him with peace & blessings is His prophet & servant.

2. pray to God (five times a day).


3. fast the month of Ramadan.

4. Alms giving: to give money to poor (called zakat)

5. go to hajj(piligrimage to Mecca where the ka'aba is)

so I am a muslim and I dont need to know all the things wrote on Quaran.

Like you said I don't have much belief in life after death and all I want to be a good one everyone.You can call it as your religion but I say it as my religion (Islam).

If only all other Muslims were like you and followed those points and nothing else. Most of them follow this strange belief that they are somehow better than other religions and that it's their purpose on Earth to make those non-believers believe in Allah. This is the foundation of everything wrong with Islam.

Live and let others live!

Actually influencers changing the real fact into benefitable thing for them,trust me Islam taught these five things only to do be a complete Muslim.

Finally yes,"Live and let others live".

So, you stay nice and ignorant about Islam, because this allows you to be a Muslim (for what purpose, nobody can guess).

Then the cleric comes to you all and says, "Time for Jihad. Kill all the infidels around you."

You decide on peace, and disobey the cleric.

Then the cleric says, "All faithful Muslims, listen to me. Kill all the unfaithful Muslims who won't Jihad, because they are really against us."

Suddenly you are not a Muslim even though you have been telling yourself all along that you were. Or would you suddenly start becoming a real Muslim?

[Mr. Tom]

It's all about schooling. Young people are easily influenced and when young people are not allowed to interact freely and brainwashed towards some ideas, they carry it to their life.
Even if we ourselves feel like I'm Independent of any propaganda,  we all are to some extent influenced by our media and our society. The one and only solution is sharing ideas and experience without bias.

[akram143]

AFAIK,only we need to do 5 things to be a muslim.

1. shahada: To bear witness that there's no god but Allah,the only one God with no one associated to Him & to bear witness that Muhammad may Allah grant Him with peace & blessings is His prophet & servant.

2. pray to God (five times a day).


3. fast the month of Ramadan.

4. Alms giving: to give money to poor (called zakat)

5. go to hajj(piligrimage to Mecca where the ka'aba is)

so I am a muslim and I dont need to know all the things wrote on Quaran.

Like you said I don't have much belief in life after death and all I want to be a good one everyone.You can call it as your religion but I say it as my religion (Islam).

If only all other Muslims were like you and followed those points and nothing else. Most of them follow this strange belief that they are somehow better than other religions and that it's their purpose on Earth to make those non-believers believe in Allah. This is the foundation of everything wrong with Islam.

Live and let others live!

Actually influencers changing the real fact into benefitable thing for them,trust me Islam taught these five things only to do be a complete Muslim.

Finally yes,"Live and let others live".

So, you stay nice and ignorant about Islam, because this allows you to be a Muslim (for what purpose, nobody can guess).

Then the cleric comes to you all and says, "Time for Jihad. Kill all the infidels around you."

You decide on peace, and disobey the cleric.

Then the cleric says, "All faithful Muslims, listen to me. Kill all the unfaithful Muslims who won't Jihad, because they are really against us."

Suddenly you are not a Muslim even though you have been telling yourself all along that you were. Or would you suddenly start becoming a real Muslim?

So cleric your mentioning is Prophet Muhammed? He is the one told muslims to follow five things and like I said there is no need to follow all the things told by anyone just beyourself and don't hurt others.If you want to go to heaven do more things than bad.

[yoseph]

Islam is RIGHT about women? 

I am not believing the life after death but I love few things and hate few things of islamic religion,you may say that they are keeping women as slave but why we cannot say they are protecting them?

Ignore the practices from some Arab countries they are taking the advantages of religion and marrying more women as much as they can but its not really what it meant for the multiple marriages allowed.

They are just trying to satisfy their sexual and i mean no offense to anyone but i will say that the Prophet Mohammed wanting to marry more than a single wife is the main reason why he said that it was okay for a man of Islamic faith to marry more than one. This is no revelation from God but rather his own desire.

[akram143]

Islam is RIGHT about women? 

I am not believing the life after death but I love few things and hate few things of islamic religion,you may say that they are keeping women as slave but why we cannot say they are protecting them?

Ignore the practices from some Arab countries they are taking the advantages of religion and marrying more women as much as they can but its not really what it meant for the multiple marriages allowed.

They are just trying to satisfy their sexual and i mean no offense to anyone but i will say that the Prophet Mohammed wanting to marry more than a single wife is the main reason why he said that it was okay for a man of Islamic faith to marry more than one. This is no revelation from God but rather his own desire.

This is not true though,you need to understand what is the real reason behind he married many women nor girls,if sexual satisfaction is the reason then he would married many virgins not the widows who is elder than him.So from this he wanted to impose the muslims to protect the widow from sexual abuse of perverts and that time period is highly unsafe for the women to live after her husband died even they will be killed before the burial as well.

[Judge-Dredd]

People need structure for life and for the most part, religion has fulfilled that role. As long as they keep it private I wouldn't mind. However I think the secular state should pursue those that use religion for harm (pedophile clerics, extremists inciting violence) and not let them hide behind "separation of Church and State".

It's kind of confusing sometimes since there are several interpretations of islam's teachings. Some moderate muslim can really convince you that islam is not about jihad and hate towards non-believers. I've come across some of these muslims and they're one of the most tolerant group of people i've ever encountered. And then there are the extremists who, as well all know, take the teachings of the Quran way too literally without giving ground.

Meh, wouldn't trust even "moderates" with the whole taqqiya thing floating about. You can never really be sure if they are telling you the truth when you ask them anything related to their religion.

You hit the nail on the head here. I understand the structure of life portion of the debate but I don't see the need for religious beliefs to enforce that. To each his own I suppose. I personally don't require religion as a form of structure but I can see where many others would (maybe poor quality of living, lower intellect, whatever)

Quietly practiced it's not a big deal. When others are violated as a result that's where I have a problem. Even the annoyance of JWs knocking on my door is enough to get me fired up sometimes. Pretty common occurence where I'm from. Do not come to my house and try to push your beliefs upon me. If we want to play that game I will go around knocking on their doors asking if they've heard of the gospel of bitcoin.

[BADecker]

So, you stay nice and ignorant about Islam, because this allows you to be a Muslim (for what purpose, nobody can guess).

Then the cleric comes to you all and says, "Time for Jihad. Kill all the infidels around you."

You decide on peace, and disobey the cleric.

Then the cleric says, "All faithful Muslims, listen to me. Kill all the unfaithful Muslims who won't Jihad, because they are really against us."

Suddenly you are not a Muslim even though you have been telling yourself all along that you were. Or would you suddenly start becoming a real Muslim?

So cleric your mentioning is Prophet Muhammed? He is the one told muslims to follow five things and like I said there is no need to follow all the things told by anyone just beyourself and don't hurt others.If you want to go to heaven do more things than bad.

Since you didn't even speak to my point, you show that you don't understand Islam, except if you are applying the Islamic tenet of attempting to deceive those who are not Muslims. What I mean is, I agreed that you don't have to follow the orders of a cleric. In fact, you don't have to follow directives of anybody. We agree on that.

My point was, where will you stand when a cleric imposes laws on you to Jihad? What will you do when the cleric-obedient Muslims around you decide to obey the cleric and do Jihad? What will you do when they obey the cleric to Jihad against disobedient Muslims... who really aren't Muslims at all even though they say that they are? Got your guns ready? Are you ready to "Jihad" against the cleric and the obedient Muslims? 

You don't even seem to know that Islam law is whatever Muhammed dictated, except in areas that he didn't cover. Those areas are controlled by the Hadiths and other cleric writings of the past. But if they weren't covered there, then they are up to the current clerics. Only if none of the above are willing to adjudicate the correctness of what you are doing... only then are you free to do it. But be careful. Some clerics might adjudicate that you used your freedom incorrectly, and set their "faithful" Muslims on a trail of executing you.

People are not leaders, generally. They want "clerics" to show them the way. They will listen to their clerics. If you want to act with authority that is reasonably safe, you had better become a prominent cleric, who remains in good standing with fellow clerics. To do this, you had better study Islamic writings well.

And I don't say this for akram143 only. I say this as warning for all the non-Muslims as well as the so-called peaceful Muslims. There isn't any such thing as a peaceful Muslim. There are only ignorant Muslims, lying in wait without knowing it, to violently take the lives of people who are not Muslims, and for harshly correcting Muslims who are not ready for Jihad.

[akram143]

So, you stay nice and ignorant about Islam, because this allows you to be a Muslim (for what purpose, nobody can guess).

Then the cleric comes to you all and says, "Time for Jihad. Kill all the infidels around you."

You decide on peace, and disobey the cleric.

Then the cleric says, "All faithful Muslims, listen to me. Kill all the unfaithful Muslims who won't Jihad, because they are really against us."

Suddenly you are not a Muslim even though you have been telling yourself all along that you were. Or would you suddenly start becoming a real Muslim?

So cleric your mentioning is Prophet Muhammed? He is the one told muslims to follow five things and like I said there is no need to follow all the things told by anyone just beyourself and don't hurt others.If you want to go to heaven do more things than bad.

Since you didn't even speak to my point, you show that you don't understand Islam, except if you are applying the Islamic tenet of attempting to deceive those who are not Muslims. What I mean is, I agreed that you don't have to follow the orders of a cleric. In fact, you don't have to follow directives of anybody. We agree on that.

My point was, where will you stand when a cleric imposes laws on you to Jihad? What will you do when the cleric-obedient Muslims around you decide to obey the cleric and do Jihad? What will you do when they obey the cleric to Jihad against disobedient Muslims... who really aren't Muslims at all even though they say that they are? Got your guns ready? Are you ready to "Jihad" against the cleric and the obedient Muslims?  

You don't even seem to know that Islam law is whatever Muhammed dictated, except in areas that he didn't cover. Those areas are controlled by the Hadiths and other cleric writings of the past. But if they weren't covered there, then they are up to the current clerics. Only if none of the above are willing to adjudicate the correctness of what you are doing... only then are you free to do it. But be careful. Some clerics might adjudicate that you used your freedom incorrectly, and set their "faithful" Muslims on a trail of executing you.

People are not leaders, generally. They want "clerics" to show them the way. They will listen to their clerics. If you want to act with authority that is reasonably safe, you had better become a prominent cleric, who remains in good standing with fellow clerics. To do this, you had better study Islamic writings well.

And I don't say this for akram143 only. I say this as warning for all the non-Muslims as well as the so-called peaceful Muslims. There isn't any such thing as a peaceful Muslim. There are only ignorant Muslims, lying in wait without knowing it, to violently take the lives of people who are not Muslims, and for harshly correcting Muslims who are not ready for Jihad.

Maybe I don't know much about these things,I will research about in this week and also will ask is this were told by clerics or what was the actual meaning of jihad and blah blah to someone who teaching Quaran in my place.

Anyway "my life my rules" if anyone want to interrupt that they need to answer my gun first.

[TheCoinGrabber]

People need structure for life and for the most part, religion has fulfilled that role. As long as they keep it private I wouldn't mind. However I think the secular state should pursue those that use religion for harm (pedophile clerics, extremists inciting violence) and not let them hide behind "separation of Church and State".

It's kind of confusing sometimes since there are several interpretations of islam's teachings. Some moderate muslim can really convince you that islam is not about jihad and hate towards non-believers. I've come across some of these muslims and they're one of the most tolerant group of people i've ever encountered. And then there are the extremists who, as well all know, take the teachings of the Quran way too literally without giving ground.

Meh, wouldn't trust even "moderates" with the whole taqqiya thing floating about. You can never really be sure if they are telling you the truth when you ask them anything related to their religion.

You hit the nail on the head here. I understand the structure of life portion of the debate but I don't see the need for religious beliefs to enforce that. To each his own I suppose. I personally don't require religion as a form of structure but I can see where many others would (maybe poor quality of living, lower intellect, whatever)

Quietly practiced it's not a big deal. When others are violated as a result that's where I have a problem. Even the annoyance of JWs knocking on my door is enough to get me fired up sometimes. Pretty common occurence where I'm from. Do not come to my house and try to push your beliefs upon me. If we want to play that game I will go around knocking on their doors asking if they've heard of the gospel of bitcoin.

Unfortunately there are many people who want to dominate others. They see their religion as something superior that must be imposed on others.

Which is why I'd be wary of "moderates". They may "genuinely" not agree with the methods of the fundamentalists but they have no problem with the end result.

Found this in my recommendations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHC6x367GMc  Guy is still quite religious but I still do agree that Islam is a threat. Sure there are still militant Christians but many Christian country has more or less become quite tolerant about most things. The same cannot be said of Islam.

[inanilujimi]

People need structure for life and for the most part, religion has fulfilled that role. As long as they keep it private I wouldn't mind. However I think the secular state should pursue those that use religion for harm (pedophile clerics, extremists inciting violence) and not let them hide behind "separation of Church and State".

It's kind of confusing sometimes since there are several interpretations of islam's teachings. Some moderate muslim can really convince you that islam is not about jihad and hate towards non-believers. I've come across some of these muslims and they're one of the most tolerant group of people i've ever encountered. And then there are the extremists who, as well all know, take the teachings of the Quran way too literally without giving ground.

Meh, wouldn't trust even "moderates" with the whole taqqiya thing floating about. You can never really be sure if they are telling you the truth when you ask them anything related to their religion.

You hit the nail on the head here. I understand the structure of life portion of the debate but I don't see the need for religious beliefs to enforce that. To each his own I suppose. I personally don't require religion as a form of structure but I can see where many others would (maybe poor quality of living, lower intellect, whatever)

Quietly practiced it's not a big deal. When others are violated as a result that's where I have a problem. Even the annoyance of JWs knocking on my door is enough to get me fired up sometimes. Pretty common occurence where I'm from. Do not come to my house and try to push your beliefs upon me. If we want to play that game I will go around knocking on their doors asking if they've heard of the gospel of bitcoin.

Unfortunately there are many people who want to dominate others. They see their religion as something superior that must be imposed on others.

Which is why I'd be wary of "moderates". They may "genuinely" not agree with the methods of the fundamentalists but they have no problem with the end result.

Found this in my recommendations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHC6x367GMc  Guy is still quite religious but I still do agree that Islam is a threat. Sure there are still militant Christians but many Christian country has more or less become quite tolerant about most things. The same cannot be said of Islam.

don't ever denigrate other people's religion, in my country all people are free to embrace religion in accordance with their respective beliefs.
in the teachings of religion there is not the slightest teaching that teaches violence, on the contrary religion is made to make people free from damage.

[BADecker]

don't ever denigrate other people's religion, in my country all people are free to embrace religion in accordance with their respective beliefs.
in the teachings of religion there is not the slightest teaching that teaches violence, on the contrary religion is made to make people free from damage.

If you don't believe the same things that others do, why respect their beliefs? Rather, respect the people, that they are people. But don't respect their wrong beliefs. If you do, you are starting to change yours into wrongs ones.

Islam is one of the few religions that teaches violence and peace mixed. The trick is to separate the two, and see what it is all about... who is to be treated peacefully, and who is to be treated violently. If you haven't read through this thread, and found the link to Muslim violence directives in their religion, then click here http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm.

[BADecker]

Maybe I don't know much about these things,I will research about in this week and also will ask is this were told by clerics or what was the actual meaning of jihad and blah blah to someone who teaching Quaran in my place.

Anyway "my life my rules" if anyone want to interrupt that they need to answer my gun first.

Come, come, now. You're a peaceful Muslim, right? What would Allah say about you even talking about violence with guns? Doesn't Allah rule in your life? Be careful. Your guns can't stand up against Allah.

[akram143]

Maybe I don't know much about these things,I will research about in this week and also will ask is this were told by clerics or what was the actual meaning of jihad and blah blah to someone who teaching Quaran in my place.

Anyway "my life my rules" if anyone want to interrupt that they need to answer my gun first.

Come, come, now. You're a peaceful Muslim, right? What would Allah say about you even talking about violence with guns? Doesn't Allah rule in your life? Be careful. Your guns can't stand up against Allah.

Our life is more important than anyone's words so if they are going to endager me then they need to face the consequences.

[BADecker]

Maybe I don't know much about these things,I will research about in this week and also will ask is this were told by clerics or what was the actual meaning of jihad and blah blah to someone who teaching Quaran in my place.

Anyway "my life my rules" if anyone want to interrupt that they need to answer my gun first.

Come, come, now. You're a peaceful Muslim, right? What would Allah say about you even talking about violence with guns? Doesn't Allah rule in your life? Be careful. Your guns can't stand up against Allah.

Our life is more important than anyone's words so if they are going to endager me then they need to face the consequences.

Now I am shocked... and absolutely scared for you... talking against Allah like that. Don't you realize that he is all-powerful?

[Judge-Dredd]

Maybe I don't know much about these things,I will research about in this week and also will ask is this were told by clerics or what was the actual meaning of jihad and blah blah to someone who teaching Quaran in my place.

Anyway "my life my rules" if anyone want to interrupt that they need to answer my gun first.

Come, come, now. You're a peaceful Muslim, right? What would Allah say about you even talking about violence with guns? Doesn't Allah rule in your life? Be careful. Your guns can't stand up against Allah.

Our life is more important than anyone's words so if they are going to endager me then they need to face the consequences.

Now I am shocked... and absolutely scared for you... talking against Allah like that. Don't you realize that he is all-powerful?

It's true. Apparently to stand up to those teachings and the prophet are a death wish. One of many examples, but have we forgotten this?

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting

An example of zealotry in its purest form. Satire leading to multiple murders.

I'll spend my last breath defending against nonsense like this.

[BADecker]

Maybe I don't know much about these things,I will research about in this week and also will ask is this were told by clerics or what was the actual meaning of jihad and blah blah to someone who teaching Quaran in my place.

Anyway "my life my rules" if anyone want to interrupt that they need to answer my gun first.

Come, come, now. You're a peaceful Muslim, right? What would Allah say about you even talking about violence with guns? Doesn't Allah rule in your life? Be careful. Your guns can't stand up against Allah.

Our life is more important than anyone's words so if they are going to endager me then they need to face the consequences.

Now I am shocked... and absolutely scared for you... talking against Allah like that. Don't you realize that he is all-powerful?

It's true. Apparently to stand up to those teachings and the prophet are a death wish. One of many examples, but have we forgotten this?

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting

An example of zealotry in its purest form. Satire leading to multiple murders.

I'll spend my last breath defending against nonsense like this.

A true romantic! But... even Lawrence of Arabia was assassinated, though few people realize it.

[JonMak0987Bitch]

Progress is not yet in all corners of our planet, but for now, people will turn to some local creatures for a long time.

[BADecker]

^^^ The only reason God is bringing progress to the corners of the planet is so that knowledge of Him and Jesus salvation can come to all people.

[Judge-Dredd]

^^^ The only reason God is bringing progress to the corners of the planet is so that knowledge of Him and Jesus salvation can come to all people.

By that logic how are there godless people who are intelligent and contribute to human progress around the globe?

God is not a pre-requisite to knowledge and improving human quality of life.

Here's a question.. what's your opinion on the legacy of Mother teresa?

[Magkirap]

It's easy in today's world to blame Islam of backwards savagery against women, children, etc. Yet this is still protected by the left?

Why? When at the same time Christianity is under attack in the modern political and social climate. Other than the obvious propagation of pedophilia by the Catholic church, Christians' rape and pillaging days are over for the most part.

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it? Are there any merits left?

I understand a common argument here may be that it instills fear in common folk and helps to provide them a reason to behave but we shouldn't need the fear of deities smiting us to act as a normal citizen and respect others' rights. You can also be a hopeful human being without religion. This is not a debate of "not all the religious folk are bad eggs" the debate here is why it still exists in any form in the year 2019.

For me, I don't believe with religion but still I respect others. What was important for me was Spirituality. With this idea, you are not being controlled by norms but instead you will decide what is right or wrong and everything was based on your experiences in life. The problem with religion is that some of them are arguing with others because they have different beliefs. Thats nonsense actually. First of all both of you are with different religion so that you have different belief.

[akram143]

Maybe I don't know much about these things,I will research about in this week and also will ask is this were told by clerics or what was the actual meaning of jihad and blah blah to someone who teaching Quaran in my place.

Anyway "my life my rules" if anyone want to interrupt that they need to answer my gun first.

Come, come, now. You're a peaceful Muslim, right? What would Allah say about you even talking about violence with guns? Doesn't Allah rule in your life? Be careful. Your guns can't stand up against Allah.

Our life is more important than anyone's words so if they are going to endager me then they need to face the consequences.

Now I am shocked... and absolutely scared for you... talking against Allah like that. Don't you realize that he is all-powerful?

Allah is not going to assasinate me,there are some extremist will do that in the name of Allah,so they also same like everyone so no need to bow for them.

[Daniel91]

Maybe I don't know much about these things,I will research about in this week and also will ask is this were told by clerics or what was the actual meaning of jihad and blah blah to someone who teaching Quaran in my place.

Anyway "my life my rules" if anyone want to interrupt that they need to answer my gun first.

Come, come, now. You're a peaceful Muslim, right? What would Allah say about you even talking about violence with guns? Doesn't Allah rule in your life? Be careful. Your guns can't stand up against Allah.

Our life is more important than anyone's words so if they are going to endager me then they need to face the consequences.

Now I am shocked... and absolutely scared for you... talking against Allah like that. Don't you realize that he is all-powerful?

Allah is not going to assasinate me,there are some extremist will do that in the name of Allah,so they also same like everyone so no need to bow for them.

There are always extremists who think they are speaking in the name of God but God is our Heavenly Parent and love and we all are His children and brothers and sisters.
If God was truly asked, there would be no killing and violence in his name, and we will have religion of peace.
The problem is that many so-called religious leaders interpret the scriptures in their own way and claim to speak in the name of God.
Because of this we have religious wars and conflicts, not because of God.

[josephsonand]

It's easy in today's world to blame Islam of backwards savagery against women, children, etc. Yet this is still protected by the left?

Why? When at the same time Christianity is under attack in the modern political and social climate. Other than the obvious propagation of pedophilia by the Catholic church, Christians' rape and pillaging days are over for the most part.

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it? Are there any merits left?

I understand a common argument here may be that it instills fear in common folk and helps to provide them a reason to behave but we shouldn't need the fear of deities smiting us to act as a normal citizen and respect others' rights. You can also be a hopeful human being without religion. This is not a debate of "not all the religious folk are bad eggs" the debate here is why it still exists in any form in the year 2019.

Well if this isn't about 'not all the religious folk are bad eggs', then it's about people who need to believe in something, and the exact year doesn't matter. Some human thing gives individual internal support. After all, there's a fear of death.

Despite all the occasions, even the horrible ones.

[BADecker]

Maybe I don't know much about these things,I will research about in this week and also will ask is this were told by clerics or what was the actual meaning of jihad and blah blah to someone who teaching Quaran in my place.

Anyway "my life my rules" if anyone want to interrupt that they need to answer my gun first.

Come, come, now. You're a peaceful Muslim, right? What would Allah say about you even talking about violence with guns? Doesn't Allah rule in your life? Be careful. Your guns can't stand up against Allah.

Our life is more important than anyone's words so if they are going to endager me then they need to face the consequences.

Now I am shocked... and absolutely scared for you... talking against Allah like that. Don't you realize that he is all-powerful?

Allah is not going to assasinate me,there are some extremist will do that in the name of Allah,so they also same like everyone so no need to bow for them.

Now you are REALLY showing your anti-Islam stance.

Allah doesn't work through direct zaps most of the time. After all, hasn't he set all things up in such a way that they work together in this life? The extremists, who are following the dictates of the Koran and Hadiths ARE the way that Allah might assassinate you Muslim hypocrite. Or, you might fall off your bicycle and break your neck. Allah has a million ways that he can do away with you... but he might have mercy for a time.

[BADecker]

It's easy in today's world to blame Islam of backwards savagery against women, children, etc. Yet this is still protected by the left?

Why? When at the same time Christianity is under attack in the modern political and social climate. Other than the obvious propagation of pedophilia by the Catholic church, Christians' rape and pillaging days are over for the most part.

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it? Are there any merits left?

I understand a common argument here may be that it instills fear in common folk and helps to provide them a reason to behave but we shouldn't need the fear of deities smiting us to act as a normal citizen and respect others' rights. You can also be a hopeful human being without religion. This is not a debate of "not all the religious folk are bad eggs" the debate here is why it still exists in any form in the year 2019.

Well if this isn't about 'not all the religious folk are bad eggs', then it's about people who need to believe in something, and the exact year doesn't matter. Some human thing gives individual internal support. After all, there's a fear of death.

Despite all the occasions, even the horrible ones.

Hope in people IS a natural thing, because we all recognize that we have been given this life for free, and so why shouldn't it remain? Or why shouldn't there even be more and better?

Yet, informal religion has a monopoly in the lives of everyone, because nobody knows for-a-fact what is going to happen... even in the next minute. After all, walking-down-the-street/in-the-elevator/driving/whatever, there might be some suicide extremist headed right for you, and you will die. We don't know. We live in hope, according to our personal, informal religion.

religion
[ ri-lij-uh n ]

noun

...

6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

[akram143]

but he might have mercy for a time.

He supposed to show since I am going to masjid on every friday to pray Jumma.

[BADecker]

but he might have mercy for a time.

He supposed to show since I am going to masjid on every friday to pray Jumma.

Well, good. You are doing some of the things of Alla wants, right? So, Allah will have mercy. But, really learn your religion a bit more, because if you don't, you might be forgetting something. And Allah's mercy might come to an end.

[akram143]

but he might have mercy for a time.

He supposed to show since I am going to masjid on every friday to pray Jumma.

Well, good. You are doing some of the things of Alla wants, right? So, Allah will have mercy. But, really learn your religion a bit more, because if you don't, you might be forgetting something. And Allah's mercy might come to an end.

Anything will be forgiven in the Allah's court if you ask for Dua and do your prayers.

[Judge-Dredd]

but he might have mercy for a time.

He supposed to show since I am going to masjid on every friday to pray Jumma.

Well, good. You are doing some of the things of Alla wants, right? So, Allah will have mercy. But, really learn your religion a bit more, because if you don't, you might be forgetting something. And Allah's mercy might come to an end.

Anything will be forgiven in the Allah's court if you ask for Dua and do your prayers.

Do you really mean anything or are you speaking figuratively?

I'm certain rape, murder, and torture among other things shouldn't be forgiven. I clearly don't study religious text to much extent but I see where assumptions like this would come in to play with extremism. That is, the literal belief in forgiveness for ANY atrocious act.

[johnpaul94]

The idea of religion was to bring man closer to that insatiable appetite for more knowledge of the creator of this universe. However, opportunist saw the virgin market for exploitation and took advantage of it.

[BADecker]

Anything will be forgiven in the Allah's court if you ask for Dua and do your prayers.

Do you really mean anything or are you speaking figuratively?

I'm certain rape, murder, and torture among other things shouldn't be forgiven. I clearly don't study religious text to much extent but I see where assumptions like this would come in to play with extremism. That is, the literal belief in forgiveness for ANY atrocious act.

Really, Anything?


Scandal of young Iraqi girls sold for sex in temporary 'pleasure marriages' ...

Young Iraqi girls are being sold for sex in temporary 'marriages' that can last as little as an hour, a BBC documentary has revealed.

Shia clerics were filmed offering 'pleasure marriages' in which men, usually banned from having sex outside marriage, can pay a dowry for an interim wife.

One cleric claimed it would be 'no problem at all' to marry girls as young as nine under Islamic law. 

The practice is banned in Iraq but eight out of 10 Shia clerics who were approached were willing to carry it out - and one of them even offered to help procure young girls, the BBC News investigation found.

The religious rite dates back centuries, partly intended to allow men to have a legitimate relationship while away from their wives.

However, some Iraqi men and Shia clerics are now abusing it to give a veneer of legitimacy to child prostitution.

One cleric in Karbala, an important religious site in Iraq, told the undercover BBC journalist that girls as young as nine could be subject to the procedure.

'According to Sharia, there's no problem,' he said, when asked if it was acceptable to conduct a temporary marriage with a young girl.

[BADecker]

^^^ Looks like the Religion of Peace is bringing Muslims closer to that insatiable appetite for more carnal knowledge. These Muslim cleric opportunist are taking advantage of a prostitution kind of virgin market for exploitation.

The idea of religion was to bring man closer to that insatiable appetite for more knowledge of the creator of this universe. However, opportunist saw the virgin market for exploitation and took advantage of it.

[akram143]

but he might have mercy for a time.

He supposed to show since I am going to masjid on every friday to pray Jumma.

Well, good. You are doing some of the things of Alla wants, right? So, Allah will have mercy. But, really learn your religion a bit more, because if you don't, you might be forgetting something. And Allah's mercy might come to an end.

Anything will be forgiven in the Allah's court if you ask for Dua and do your prayers.

Do you really mean anything or are you speaking figuratively?

I'm certain rape, murder, and torture among other things shouldn't be forgiven. I clearly don't study religious text to much extent but I see where assumptions like this would come in to play with extremism. That is, the literal belief in forgiveness for ANY atrocious act.

Anything not includes everything,only sins were done without aware of they are sins,once they get to realize that they are doing sin but they still continue to do then their forgiveness will be denied.

[finzyoj]

Religion is good but Humanity is better. You can still be considerably good without consistently going to church every Sunday, without attending various spiritual ceremonies and even without praying as long as you are following the rules of human and shows compassion to another. Let me give you an example on what I usually see while attending Christmas mass last year. I noticed that everyone in the mass gave few bucks during the part of tithes but after the mass they can't even give a cent on the old beggar outside. See the irony?

In short, being religious doesn't secure your spot in heaven. You should also put the knowledge you gain into actions.

[BADecker]

^^^ Nobody can be good enough to get into Heaven. That's why God decided on another way. First, He had His Son Jesus (the only one strong enough) maintain righteousness throughout His life. Then He had His righteous Son take the punishment and die for all the sins of all mankind. Then He had Jesus rise from the dead, and gave Jesus the authority for all the universe.

Why did God do this? So all that people have to do is to believe that Jesus did this, and then accept the Jesus-salvation held out to them. But, when a person continually sins intentionally, does he really believe in Jesus-salvation? But if he really believes, how long can he maintain his faith and still intentionally sin?

Believe in Jesus-salvation, the only thing that can save you. Then, stop intentional sinning, the thing that destroys your faith in Jesus-salvation.

[guigui371]

Anything will be forgiven in the Allah's court if you ask for Dua and do your prayers.

Do you really mean anything or are you speaking figuratively?

I'm certain rape, murder, and torture among other things shouldn't be forgiven. I clearly don't study religious text to much extent but I see where assumptions like this would come in to play with extremism. That is, the literal belief in forgiveness for ANY atrocious act.

Really, Anything?


Scandal of young Iraqi girls sold for sex in temporary 'pleasure marriages' ...

Young Iraqi girls are being sold for sex in temporary 'marriages' that can last as little as an hour, a BBC documentary has revealed.

Shia clerics were filmed offering 'pleasure marriages' in which men, usually banned from having sex outside marriage, can pay a dowry for an interim wife.

One cleric claimed it would be 'no problem at all' to marry girls as young as nine under Islamic law. 

The practice is banned in Iraq but eight out of 10 Shia clerics who were approached were willing to carry it out - and one of them even offered to help procure young girls, the BBC News investigation found.

The religious rite dates back centuries, partly intended to allow men to have a legitimate relationship while away from their wives.

However, some Iraqi men and Shia clerics are now abusing it to give a veneer of legitimacy to child prostitution.

One cleric in Karbala, an important religious site in Iraq, told the undercover BBC journalist that girls as young as nine could be subject to the procedure.

'According to Sharia, there's no problem,' he said, when asked if it was acceptable to conduct a temporary marriage with a young girl.

It is a scandal, they shouldn’t pay !
I mean, why paying for young virgins when all you have to do is become a catholic priest and get them for free.
It is a waste of fiat that could Have been used to buy some BTC.

[guigui371]

^^^ Nobody can be good enough to get into Heaven. That's why God decided on another way. First, He had His Son Jesus (the only one strong enough) maintain righteousness throughout His life. Then He had His righteous Son take the punishment and die for all the sins of all mankind. Then He had Jesus rise from the dead, and gave Jesus the authority for all the universe.

Why did God do this? So all that people have to do is to believe that Jesus did this, and then accept the Jesus-salvation held out to them. But, when a person continually sins intentionally, does he really believe in Jesus-salvation? But if he really believes, how long can he maintain his faith and still intentionally sin?

Believe in Jesus-salvation, the only thing that can save you. Then, stop intentional sinning, the thing that destroys your faith in Jesus-salvation.

Jesus isn’t god’s son.
He is a Jew whose mother claimed that she became pregnant by the Holy Spirit.

And as the saying says : once a Jew, always a Jew.

[BADecker]

^^^ Nobody can be good enough to get into Heaven. That's why God decided on another way. First, He had His Son Jesus (the only one strong enough) maintain righteousness throughout His life. Then He had His righteous Son take the punishment and die for all the sins of all mankind. Then He had Jesus rise from the dead, and gave Jesus the authority for all the universe.

Why did God do this? So all that people have to do is to believe that Jesus did this, and then accept the Jesus-salvation held out to them. But, when a person continually sins intentionally, does he really believe in Jesus-salvation? But if he really believes, how long can he maintain his faith and still intentionally sin?

Believe in Jesus-salvation, the only thing that can save you. Then, stop intentional sinning, the thing that destroys your faith in Jesus-salvation.

Jesus isn’t god’s son.
He is a Jew whose mother claimed that she became pregnant by the Holy Spirit.

And as the saying says : once a Jew, always a Jew.

Except for the miracles that Jesus did, and still does through the Holy Spirit. These prove that Jesus is the Son of God, because nobody else has done such an abundance of great miracles as Jesus has done.

[Gontxi]

you should find out in more detail, no one teaches bad things as mentioned. i'm sure it's only a person who wants to damage the image of religion and create hostility, if you study deeper you will find peace

[BADecker]

You can find Islamic peace without Islam. And when it's without Islam, it's without the violence written right into the Koran and Hadiths - http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm.

[Rmcdermott927]

You can find Islamic peace without Islam. And when it's without Islam, it's without the violence written right into the Koran and Hadiths - http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm.

Or we could abandon religion altogether? Jihad, crusades, slavery.  Religion brings very little good in this world compared to the mass atrocities it creates. 

[Judge-Dredd]

^^^ Nobody can be good enough to get into Heaven. That's why God decided on another way. First, He had His Son Jesus (the only one strong enough) maintain righteousness throughout His life. Then He had His righteous Son take the punishment and die for all the sins of all mankind. Then He had Jesus rise from the dead, and gave Jesus the authority for all the universe.

Why did God do this? So all that people have to do is to believe that Jesus did this, and then accept the Jesus-salvation held out to them. But, when a person continually sins intentionally, does he really believe in Jesus-salvation? But if he really believes, how long can he maintain his faith and still intentionally sin?

Believe in Jesus-salvation, the only thing that can save you. Then, stop intentional sinning, the thing that destroys your faith in Jesus-salvation.

Jesus isn’t god’s son.
He is a Jew whose mother claimed that she became pregnant by the Holy Spirit.

And as the saying says : once a Jew, always a Jew.

Except for the miracles that Jesus did, and still does through the Holy Spirit. These prove that Jesus is the Son of God, because nobody else has done such an abundance of great miracles as Jesus has done.

Please reference some of these miracles. Preferably, miracles that occurred after the advent of photography and actual data recording.

Can you pick one in the last 20 years then provide evidence of divine intervention?

[BADecker]

You can find Islamic peace without Islam. And when it's without Islam, it's without the violence written right into the Koran and Hadiths - http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm.

Or we could abandon religion altogether? Jihad, crusades, slavery.  Religion brings very little good in this world compared to the mass atrocities it creates. 

Nobody can abandon religion. Many have abandoned formal religion that is an institutional body. But nobody abandons personal, informal religion... except if he is in a coma, or is a vegetable... and maybe not even then. Why? It's in the definition of "religion..." https://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion?s=t. If you want to see it, you need to go through the points of the definition, and think about how they might or might not apply. Some of the definition applies to everyone.

[BADecker]

^^^ Nobody can be good enough to get into Heaven. That's why God decided on another way. First, He had His Son Jesus (the only one strong enough) maintain righteousness throughout His life. Then He had His righteous Son take the punishment and die for all the sins of all mankind. Then He had Jesus rise from the dead, and gave Jesus the authority for all the universe.

Why did God do this? So all that people have to do is to believe that Jesus did this, and then accept the Jesus-salvation held out to them. But, when a person continually sins intentionally, does he really believe in Jesus-salvation? But if he really believes, how long can he maintain his faith and still intentionally sin?

Believe in Jesus-salvation, the only thing that can save you. Then, stop intentional sinning, the thing that destroys your faith in Jesus-salvation.

Jesus isn’t god’s son.
He is a Jew whose mother claimed that she became pregnant by the Holy Spirit.

And as the saying says : once a Jew, always a Jew.

Except for the miracles that Jesus did, and still does through the Holy Spirit. These prove that Jesus is the Son of God, because nobody else has done such an abundance of great miracles as Jesus has done.

Please reference some of these miracles. Preferably, miracles that occurred after the advent of photography and actual data recording.

Can you pick one in the last 20 years then provide evidence of divine intervention?

I'm not going to reference them directly, but if you want to find them, all you need to do is look for the miraculous healings that are done in churches, and in the medical. You can do various Internet searches to find this for yourself.

In the medical, often people get well for no reason that the doctors can put their finger on at all. In fact, some of these miracles stun and amaze doctors.

[ashmodeus]

yes, that right , because religion can make some confilct, because religion people can hate each other,because religion,people can feel arrogant.
i still have no idea why people using religion for satisfy worldly passions.
basicaly, religion exists for create a peace,as time goes by,a handful of people, let's say the higher-ups in certain associations,began to abuse his leadership.
I don't care what religion is, all same to me, i mean all people who feel themselves holy and look down on sinners like me.

[BADecker]

yes, that right , because religion can make some confilct, because religion people can hate each other,because religion,people can feel arrogant.
i still have no idea why people using religion for satisfy worldly passions.
basicaly, religion exists for create a peace,as time goes by,a handful of people, let's say the higher-ups in certain associations,began to abuse his leadership.
I don't care what religion is, all same to me, i mean all people who feel themselves holy and look down on sinners like me.

If you have Jesus-salvation, be humble. And stop being a sinner as much as you can. Boast in Jesus rather than yourself. Muslims fail just like Christians. But they don't have any Savior to boast in.

[iamsheikhadil]

The left doesn't protect "Islam" or "Christianity" as in their core values. And I'm with the left on this.

LGBT rights, freedom of expression of religion, being an atheist (free from any religion) etc are the values promoted and supported which might go against the core tenants of the most populous religions in the world.

The left supports any religion or people of that religion only when anyone is discriminated because of their belief. Other than that I don't see it supporting the values of any religion or the core beliefs or an eternal hell to barbeque people's ass or a eternal heaven filled with eternal bliss etc etc

[btcdie]

Everyone in this world looking for their own benefits so they are hiding under the religious thing,in my places Muslims and all other religious people were living in peace so why we see Islam as good but some Muslims are bad.We cannot oppose everyone just because of 10% doing the things in wrong way.

Islam bad; Muslim hypocrite.

Islam tell Muslim kill other people - https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx. Islam bad.

Muslim hypocrite. Muslim say Islam good, but not obey Islam; not kill other people. Muslim want peace. Muslim not want Islam violence. Muslim not good Islam person. Muslim hypocrite.

ISIS good Muslim. ISIS obey Islam. ISIS do violence like Islam say to do.

in fact all religious goals teach goodness and peace. any religion never teaches barbarity, it's just that humans involve religion to commit barbarity.

ISIS is a terrorist, radical Islam and in my opinion the beginning of ISIS was formed not from Islamic religion, but there is a group that wants to expel Islam. You do not consider Islam as a religion of violence, Islam is broad and has many sects / groups.

in Asian countries, it is agreed that ISIS is a terrorist and must be opposed. As an example in Indonesia, don't try to save the ISIS flag, then you will be arrested and processed according to the law.

Terrorist : Islam people + Non Islam people

ISIS : From US to make some bad thing about Islam

I am a Muslim and I never taught about we need to kill someone,Islam is peace not violence...

I agree with you, I'm sure you know the real Islam.

[BADecker]

Everyone in this world looking for their own benefits so they are hiding under the religious thing,in my places Muslims and all other religious people were living in peace so why we see Islam as good but some Muslims are bad.We cannot oppose everyone just because of 10% doing the things in wrong way.

Islam bad; Muslim hypocrite.

Islam tell Muslim kill other people - https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx. Islam bad.

Muslim hypocrite. Muslim say Islam good, but not obey Islam; not kill other people. Muslim want peace. Muslim not want Islam violence. Muslim not good Islam person. Muslim hypocrite.

ISIS good Muslim. ISIS obey Islam. ISIS do violence like Islam say to do.

in fact all religious goals teach goodness and peace. any religion never teaches barbarity, it's just that humans involve religion to commit barbarity.

ISIS is a terrorist, radical Islam and in my opinion the beginning of ISIS was formed not from Islamic religion, but there is a group that wants to expel Islam. You do not consider Islam as a religion of violence, Islam is broad and has many sects / groups.

in Asian countries, it is agreed that ISIS is a terrorist and must be opposed. As an example in Indonesia, don't try to save the ISIS flag, then you will be arrested and processed according to the law.

Terrorist : Islam people + Non Islam people

ISIS : From US to make some bad thing about Islam

I am a Muslim and I never taught about we need to kill someone,Islam is peace not violence...

I agree with you, I'm sure you know the real Islam.

The point is this regarding Islam. Is Islam what the vast mass of Muslims say that it is? Or is Islam what the Koran and Hadiths say that it is?

If every Muslim is his own authority regarding what Islam is, then Islam is an entirely broken religion. Why? Because every Muslim thinks about his religion at least slightly differently than all other Muslims. But mostly because there are many factions of Islam that say that Islam is something different than all the others.

If every Muslim is his own authority, but fundamentally says that he bows to what the Koran and Hadiths say, then why don't Muslims obey the Koran all the way like ISIS attempts to do? How is ISIS attempting to obey the Koran all the way? Here's how:

The Koran and Hadiths say 3 basic things for Muslims to do:
1. Obey the Koran and Hadiths, and live in peace with all other Muslims;
2. Live in peace with the infidels while trying to convert them to Islam. This may take some time;
3. If infidels won't turn to Islam, ultimately destroy them. How much time to give them? This is a judgmental thing. The Koran and Hadiths prescribe the time limits and the circumstances for Muslims to make their move.

Does Islam call for violence? In the Koran and Hadiths it does. See http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm.

So, what is a Muslim? Someone who picks and chooses what he will believe about Islam? Or someone who does the things that the Koran says as listed 1, 2, 3, above? A Muslim can't do what the Koran says if he doesn't know what the Koran says. A peaceful Muslim isn't doing the violence that the Koran calls for. But ISIS is... peaceful to other faithful Muslims, but violence to non-violent Muslims who won't destroy the people of other religions like ISIS is doing.

If you are a peaceful Muslim who won't destroy people of other religions, you are at best a very weak Muslim. Why? Because you aren't following the basics of Islam as written in the Koran and Hadiths.

[agustina2]

Please reference some of these miracles. Preferably, miracles that occurred after the advent of photography and actual data recording.

Can you pick one in the last 20 years then provide evidence of divine intervention?

I'm not going to reference them directly, but if you want to find them, all you need to do is look for the miraculous healings that are done in churches, and in the medical. You can do various Internet searches to find this for yourself.

In the medical, often people get well for no reason that the doctors can put their finger on at all. In fact, some of these miracles stun and amaze doctors.

It's hard to cite every reference and testimonies about this. It's too many to mention!

Miracles happen every day. Just the fact that you wake up every single morning is even considered as a miracle. It will be really difficult for a person to believe if he or she doesn't have any personal encounter at all or don't have faith with the Maker of miracles. So believe in Jesus first, then it will not be so hard for you to recognize the miracles that are happening every single day in this world.

[btcdie]

Everyone in this world looking for their own benefits so they are hiding under the religious thing,in my places Muslims and all other religious people were living in peace so why we see Islam as good but some Muslims are bad.We cannot oppose everyone just because of 10% doing the things in wrong way.

Islam bad; Muslim hypocrite.

Islam tell Muslim kill other people - https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx. Islam bad.

Muslim hypocrite. Muslim say Islam good, but not obey Islam; not kill other people. Muslim want peace. Muslim not want Islam violence. Muslim not good Islam person. Muslim hypocrite.

ISIS good Muslim. ISIS obey Islam. ISIS do violence like Islam say to do.

in fact all religious goals teach goodness and peace. any religion never teaches barbarity, it's just that humans involve religion to commit barbarity.

ISIS is a terrorist, radical Islam and in my opinion the beginning of ISIS was formed not from Islamic religion, but there is a group that wants to expel Islam. You do not consider Islam as a religion of violence, Islam is broad and has many sects / groups.

in Asian countries, it is agreed that ISIS is a terrorist and must be opposed. As an example in Indonesia, don't try to save the ISIS flag, then you will be arrested and processed according to the law.

Terrorist : Islam people + Non Islam people

ISIS : From US to make some bad thing about Islam

I am a Muslim and I never taught about we need to kill someone,Islam is peace not violence...

I agree with you, I'm sure you know the real Islam.

The point is this regarding Islam. Is Islam what the vast mass of Muslims say that it is? Or is Islam what the Koran and Hadiths say that it is?

If every Muslim is his own authority regarding what Islam is, then Islam is an entirely broken religion. Why? Because every Muslim thinks about his religion at least slightly differently than all other Muslims. But mostly because there are many factions of Islam that say that Islam is something different than all the others.

If every Muslim is his own authority, but fundamentally says that he bows to what the Koran and Hadiths say, then why don't Muslims obey the Koran all the way like ISIS attempts to do? How is ISIS attempting to obey the Koran all the way? Here's how:

The Koran and Hadiths say 3 basic things for Muslims to do:
1. Obey the Koran and Hadiths, and live in peace with all other Muslims;
2. Live in peace with the infidels while trying to convert them to Islam. This may take some time;
3. If infidels won't turn to Islam, ultimately destroy them. How much time to give them? This is a judgmental thing. The Koran and Hadiths prescribe the time limits and the circumstances for Muslims to make their move.

Does Islam call for violence? In the Koran and Hadiths it does. See http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm.

So, what is a Muslim? Someone who picks and chooses what he will believe about Islam? Or someone who does the things that the Koran says as listed 1, 2, 3, above? A Muslim can't do what the Koran says if he doesn't know what the Koran says. A peaceful Muslim isn't doing the violence that the Koran calls for. But ISIS is... peaceful to other faithful Muslims, but violence to non-violent Muslims who won't destroy the people of other religions like ISIS is doing.

If you are a peaceful Muslim who won't destroy people of other religions, you are at best a very weak Muslim. Why? Because you aren't following the basics of Islam as written in the Koran and Hadiths.

between the two. namely Islam that is said by the Koran & Hadith, Islam is also as said by most Muslims namely (Ulama: religious leaders or religious leaders whose task is to protect, foster and guide Muslims both in matters of religious maupum daily problems that are needed both in terms of religious and social)

You are wrong to say that Islamic law is only the Qur'an and Hadith.

In Islamic law there are 4 namely:
1. Al-quran (the most important and irreversible source of Islamic law, al-quran separates between right and wrong)
2. Hadith (the second source of Islamic law after Al-Qur'an. Hadith is all forms of behavior of the Prophet Muhammad SAW, both in the words, deeds, and
    decrees of the Prophet)
3. Ijma '(a legal agreement taken from the Fatwa or deliberation of the Ulama about a case that is not found in the Qur'an or hadith law. But the
    reference must be in the Qur'an and Hadith. Ijma' at the present time taken from the decisions of Islamic scholars.
4. Qiyash (is explaining the law of something that is not in the Qur'an and hadith by comparing it to something determined based on the Qur'an and
    Hadith)

Language in the Qur'an is complicated, it needs interpretation by someone who is an expert in the fields of religion and language. imagine 1 word even 1 letter in the quran has millions of meanings. The interpretation of the Qur'an as you say 1, 2, 3, is wrong. If a Muslim does the 3 things above, then what happens? ,, yes, I say war. this world will be destroyed if Muslims do the 3 things above.

as said by a hadith:
"Know that the people before you from the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) are divided into 72 groups, and in fact this ummah (Islam) will split into 73 groups, (as for) seventy-two will enter Hell and one group will enter Paradise, which is "al-Jama'ah."

the ulema and other extremist groups agreed that, ISIS as (khawarij) adherents, namely the concept of paganism of people outside the understanding embraced by certain groups. One of the evidence that strengthens the allegations of ISIS as adherents of the khawarij is that it is easy to disbelieve other parties indiscriminately. For ISIS, justifying the blood of those who are against it is the right thing, even if the opponent is Muslim. No wonder why ISIS is so easy to execute people outside of its group.

[af_newbie]

Everyone in this world looking for their own benefits so they are hiding under the religious thing,in my places Muslims and all other religious people were living in peace so why we see Islam as good but some Muslims are bad.We cannot oppose everyone just because of 10% doing the things in wrong way.

Islam bad; Muslim hypocrite.

Islam tell Muslim kill other people - https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx. Islam bad.

Muslim hypocrite. Muslim say Islam good, but not obey Islam; not kill other people. Muslim want peace. Muslim not want Islam violence. Muslim not good Islam person. Muslim hypocrite.

ISIS good Muslim. ISIS obey Islam. ISIS do violence like Islam say to do.

in fact all religious goals teach goodness and peace. any religion never teaches barbarity, it's just that humans involve religion to commit barbarity.

ISIS is a terrorist, radical Islam and in my opinion the beginning of ISIS was formed not from Islamic religion, but there is a group that wants to expel Islam. You do not consider Islam as a religion of violence, Islam is broad and has many sects / groups.

in Asian countries, it is agreed that ISIS is a terrorist and must be opposed. As an example in Indonesia, don't try to save the ISIS flag, then you will be arrested and processed according to the law.

Terrorist : Islam people + Non Islam people

ISIS : From US to make some bad thing about Islam

I am a Muslim and I never taught about we need to kill someone,Islam is peace not violence...

I agree with you, I'm sure you know the real Islam.

The point is this regarding Islam. Is Islam what the vast mass of Muslims say that it is? Or is Islam what the Koran and Hadiths say that it is?

If every Muslim is his own authority regarding what Islam is, then Islam is an entirely broken religion. Why? Because every Muslim thinks about his religion at least slightly differently than all other Muslims. But mostly because there are many factions of Islam that say that Islam is something different than all the others.

If every Muslim is his own authority, but fundamentally says that he bows to what the Koran and Hadiths say, then why don't Muslims obey the Koran all the way like ISIS attempts to do? How is ISIS attempting to obey the Koran all the way? Here's how:

The Koran and Hadiths say 3 basic things for Muslims to do:
1. Obey the Koran and Hadiths, and live in peace with all other Muslims;
2. Live in peace with the infidels while trying to convert them to Islam. This may take some time;
3. If infidels won't turn to Islam, ultimately destroy them. How much time to give them? This is a judgmental thing. The Koran and Hadiths prescribe the time limits and the circumstances for Muslims to make their move.

Does Islam call for violence? In the Koran and Hadiths it does. See http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm.

So, what is a Muslim? Someone who picks and chooses what he will believe about Islam? Or someone who does the things that the Koran says as listed 1, 2, 3, above? A Muslim can't do what the Koran says if he doesn't know what the Koran says. A peaceful Muslim isn't doing the violence that the Koran calls for. But ISIS is... peaceful to other faithful Muslims, but violence to non-violent Muslims who won't destroy the people of other religions like ISIS is doing.

If you are a peaceful Muslim who won't destroy people of other religions, you are at best a very weak Muslim. Why? Because you aren't following the basics of Islam as written in the Koran and Hadiths.

between the two. namely Islam that is said by the Koran & Hadith, Islam is also as said by most Muslims namely (Ulama: religious leaders or religious leaders whose task is to protect, foster and guide Muslims both in matters of religious maupum daily problems that are needed both in terms of religious and social)

You are wrong to say that Islamic law is only the Qur'an and Hadith.

In Islamic law there are 4 namely:
1. Al-quran (the most important and irreversible source of Islamic law, al-quran separates between right and wrong)
2. Hadith (the second source of Islamic law after Al-Qur'an. Hadith is all forms of behavior of the Prophet Muhammad SAW, both in the words, deeds, and
    decrees of the Prophet)
3. Ijma '(a legal agreement taken from the Fatwa or deliberation of the Ulama about a case that is not found in the Qur'an or hadith law. But the
    reference must be in the Qur'an and Hadith. Ijma' at the present time taken from the decisions of Islamic scholars.
4. Qiyash (is explaining the law of something that is not in the Qur'an and hadith by comparing it to something determined based on the Qur'an and
    Hadith)

Language in the Qur'an is complicated, it needs interpretation by someone who is an expert in the fields of religion and language. imagine 1 word even 1 letter in the quran has millions of meanings. The interpretation of the Qur'an as you say 1, 2, 3, is wrong. If a Muslim does the 3 things above, then what happens? ,, yes, I say war. this world will be destroyed if Muslims do the 3 things above.

as said by a hadith:
"Know that the people before you from the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) are divided into 72 groups, and in fact this ummah (Islam) will split into 73 groups, (as for) seventy-two will enter Hell and one group will enter Paradise, which is "al-Jama'ah."

the ulema and other extremist groups agreed that, ISIS as (khawarij) adherents, namely the concept of paganism of people outside the understanding embraced by certain groups. One of the evidence that strengthens the allegations of ISIS as adherents of the khawarij is that it is easy to disbelieve other parties indiscriminately. For ISIS, justifying the blood of those who are against it is the right thing, even if the opponent is Muslim. No wonder why ISIS is so easy to execute people outside of its group.

The Quran and the wisdom it contains should be dismissed outright by any person living in the 21st century.  With no exceptions.

It is a collection of nonsensical 'sayings' collected and written by some military commanders daydreaming about conquering the world and subjugating all conquered peoples.  Scientific nonsense, full of contradictions.

I have no idea why anyone would pay any attention to this book.  If you want to read something interesting start with

https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1.Best_Books_Ever

[Naida_BR]

It's easy in today's world to blame Islam of backwards savagery against women, children, etc. Yet this is still protected by the left?

Why? When at the same time Christianity is under attack in the modern political and social climate. Other than the obvious propagation of pedophilia by the Catholic church, Christians' rape and pillaging days are over for the most part.

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it? Are there any merits left?

I understand a common argument here may be that it instills fear in common folk and helps to provide them a reason to behave but we shouldn't need the fear of deities smiting us to act as a normal citizen and respect others' rights. You can also be a hopeful human being without religion. This is not a debate of "not all the religious folk are bad eggs" the debate here is why it still exists in any form in the year 2019.

Well, you cannot deprive from anyone the right to believe in God, because Islam kills people in the name of God or Catholic church has been blamed for pedophilia etc. Those are just some minor incidents which stigmatize their whole beliefs.
You can live under Peace if you believe in different religions as well. You only have to be educated and respect others.

[af_newbie]

It's easy in today's world to blame Islam of backwards savagery against women, children, etc. Yet this is still protected by the left?

Why? When at the same time Christianity is under attack in the modern political and social climate. Other than the obvious propagation of pedophilia by the Catholic church, Christians' rape and pillaging days are over for the most part.

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it? Are there any merits left?

I understand a common argument here may be that it instills fear in common folk and helps to provide them a reason to behave but we shouldn't need the fear of deities smiting us to act as a normal citizen and respect others' rights. You can also be a hopeful human being without religion. This is not a debate of "not all the religious folk are bad eggs" the debate here is why it still exists in any form in the year 2019.

Well, you cannot deprive from anyone the right to believe in God, because Islam kills people in the name of God or Catholic church has been blamed for pedophilia etc. Those are just some minor incidents which stigmatize their whole beliefs.
You can live under Peace if you believe in different religions as well. You only have to be educated and respect others.

If you were educated you would know how to determine if something is true.

Religious dogma, Islam is no exception, is utter nonsense.

However, I would fight for your right to believe in it as long as you keep it to yourself.

[mr.robot8]

both Islam and Christianity have their faults and their injustices, I hope that in the future humanity will be guided primarily by science

[btcdie]

both Islam and Christianity have their faults and their injustices, I hope that in the future humanity will be guided primarily by science

Does religion not guide you with science?
if you are a religious, at this moment you are guided by science. all the goals of religion are the same, namely to guide us to create peace and goodness in this world. it's just that savage humans involve religion to conquer the world.

try to search on google "the purpose and function of religion" I think it's clear there. so in my opinion, humans are still religious and have their respective beliefs.

[KingScorpio]

It's easy in today's world to blame Islam of backwards savagery against women, children, etc. Yet this is still protected by the left?

Why? When at the same time Christianity is under attack in the modern political and social climate. Other than the obvious propagation of pedophilia by the Catholic church, Christians' rape and pillaging days are over for the most part.

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it? Are there any merits left?

I understand a common argument here may be that it instills fear in common folk and helps to provide them a reason to behave but we shouldn't need the fear of deities smiting us to act as a normal citizen and respect others' rights. You can also be a hopeful human being without religion. This is not a debate of "not all the religious folk are bad eggs" the debate here is why it still exists in any form in the year 2019.

religion make society work, they target the individual mind,

atheism bleeds out a society, russia moved from atheist communism to russian orthodoxy because it also realised atheism isnt very sustainable.

regards

[BADecker]

If they are zombies, they aren't people. If they are people... people can't stop being religious. People are religious beings.

[Kwame21]

Religion, the way I know it doesnt put fear in anyone. Personally, I am a christain. ive been taught to believe in God and this faith has really pushed me to sometimes go beyond the impossible. So to me, religion is cool depending on how see and understand it. 

[Renampun]

It's easy in today's world to blame Islam of backwards savagery against women, children, etc. Yet this is still protected by the left?

one thing that I don't like about Islam is their way of looking at the opposite sex,
Islam is allowed to do polygamy, and have full power over wives, in the mosque, there is a barrier between women and men,
one more thing that makes me not think is that they believe that every man who enters heaven will marry 72 angels, this is a funny thing IMO

If a person doesn't have religion, he is dead, in a coma, or a vegetable. Why? Check out the definition of "religion:"

you are very precise, religion is a rule, without religion the world is very chaotic,
for example in Christian it is written "do not killing" just imagine if this rule does not exist,
then we will be busy killing each other.

[styca]

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it?

We don't need it. Religion was primarily a method of social control. God was a very effective all-seeing policeman in the sky who could keep the population behaving as desired. Religion is a relic of the past. It can be harmful in many ways, not just starting conflict, but also suggesting that scientific discoveries aren't true.

I do think that some of the values espoused by (but not necessarily practiced by) some religions have merit, like tolerance and treating others as you would have them treat you, etc - but you don't need religion for that.

[BADecker]

Other than instinctual human greed, religion has caused more conflict in human history than anything else. Why do we still need it?

We don't need it. Religion was primarily a method of social control. God was a very effective all-seeing policeman in the sky who could keep the population behaving as desired. Religion is a relic of the past. It can be harmful in many ways, not just starting conflict, but also suggesting that scientific discoveries aren't true.

I do think that some of the values espoused by (but not necessarily practiced by) some religions have merit, like tolerance and treating others as you would have them treat you, etc - but you don't need religion for that.

Except that the idea of God being as you described Him, is an alternative method of population control.

The reality of nature shows that God is real, and that obeying Him is more like fitting in with the universe... to flow with the way things work rather than against them.

[kuyaJ]

yes, that right , because religion can make some confilct, because religion people can hate each other,because religion,people can feel arrogant.
i still have no idea why people using religion for satisfy worldly passions.
basicaly, religion exists for create a peace,as time goes by,a handful of people, let's say the higher-ups in certain associations,began to abuse his leadership.
I don't care what religion is, all same to me, i mean all people who feel themselves holy and look down on sinners like me.

If you have Jesus-salvation, be humble. And stop being a sinner as much as you can. Boast in Jesus rather than yourself. Muslims fail just like Christians. But they don't have any Savior to boast in.

The goal of Islam was the power so what happen to the world? What they need? What if they conquer the world by their power? How will the christian do?

The Christian goal was different from Islam because they are ruled by God and also they have to do good for their 2nd life which is the heaven they want.

What happen to the world? How we can survive to some Islam out there who want the power they want?

[BADecker]

yes, that right , because religion can make some confilct, because religion people can hate each other,because religion,people can feel arrogant.
i still have no idea why people using religion for satisfy worldly passions.
basicaly, religion exists for create a peace,as time goes by,a handful of people, let's say the higher-ups in certain associations,began to abuse his leadership.
I don't care what religion is, all same to me, i mean all people who feel themselves holy and look down on sinners like me.

If you have Jesus-salvation, be humble. And stop being a sinner as much as you can. Boast in Jesus rather than yourself. Muslims fail just like Christians. But they don't have any Savior to boast in.

The goal of Islam was the power so what happen to the world? What they need? What if they conquer the world by their power? How will the christian do?

The Christian goal was different from Islam because they are ruled by God and also they have to do good for their 2nd life which is the heaven they want.

What happen to the world? How we can survive to some Islam out there who want the power they want?

Christians also believe that the whole world is ruled by God. It's just that God gives freedom, but Islam enslaves its people.

If God allows Christianity to formally fail, He will still take care of His people. After all, everyone dies, Muslim or Christian. But there will be a resurrection and a judgment, where God will judge everybody as to whose side they were on. This judgment is based on believing in Jesus-salvation.

Everybody dies. This whole world and life exist to give people the chance to be saved for eternal life in the new heavens and the new earth... the new universe God is making. True Muslims aren't going to be saved, because they don't have Jesus-salvation.

[n0ne]

yes, that right , because religion can make some confilct, because religion people can hate each other,because religion,people can feel arrogant.
i still have no idea why people using religion for satisfy worldly passions.
basicaly, religion exists for create a peace,as time goes by,a handful of people, let's say the higher-ups in certain associations,began to abuse his leadership.
I don't care what religion is, all same to me, i mean all people who feel themselves holy and look down on sinners like me.

If you have Jesus-salvation, be humble. And stop being a sinner as much as you can. Boast in Jesus rather than yourself. Muslims fail just like Christians. But they don't have any Savior to boast in.

The goal of Islam was the power so what happen to the world? What they need? What if they conquer the world by their power? How will the christian do?

The Christian goal was different from Islam because they are ruled by God and also they have to do good for their 2nd life which is the heaven they want.

What happen to the world? How we can survive to some Islam out there who want the power they want?

Christians also believe that the whole world is ruled by God. It's just that God gives freedom, but Islam enslaves its people.

If God allows Christianity to formally fail, He will still take care of His people. After all, everyone dies, Muslim or Christian. But there will be a resurrection and a judgment, where God will judge everybody as to whose side they were on. This judgment is based on believing in Jesus-salvation.

Everybody dies. This whole world and life exist to give people the chance to be saved for eternal life in the new heavens and the new earth... the new universe God is making. True Muslims aren't going to be saved, because they don't have Jesus-salvation.

Yes, everybody dies someday and until then it is good to do good to the one in need. Automatically peace will prevail all around the globe. There is nothing as a specific religion for peace, everything depends on the act of human beings. What we do now gets us to be on the side of God when our life ends.

[styca]

there will be a resurrection and a judgment, where God will judge everybody as to whose side they were on. This judgment is based on believing in Jesus-salvation.

I'll make an old argument, but it's still a valid one. A person's religion is generally determined by their parents' religion. People are Christians largely because their parents are, same for Muslims.

If God exists (and is not evil) then would he really condemn millions of people based on an accident of birth, on what amounts essentially to pure luck?

[BADecker]

there will be a resurrection and a judgment, where God will judge everybody as to whose side they were on. This judgment is based on believing in Jesus-salvation.

I'll make an old argument, but it's still a valid one. A person's religion is generally determined by their parents' religion. People are Christians largely because their parents are, same for Muslims.

If God exists (and is not evil) then would he really condemn millions of people based on an accident of birth, on what amounts essentially to pure luck?

You have to ask yourself what a good God is after in creating people at all. The Bible tells us that He wants children, and that people are designed to be His children. So, let's examine this, briefly.

If you have children, but they hate you, ignore you, don't give you credit even though you are supporting you, don't thank you, try to say that you don't exist, kill each other off, and all kinds of other things that you don't want your children to do, how would you feel? Sure, God is way more patient than we are. But He is way more sensitive, as well.

Is God getting the thing He wants? If He isn't, why in the world would he want this creation to remain. Do it over in such a way that He gets what He wants. And... He is God, so He is doing exactly that.

How is He doing it? By finding those people who are somehow willing to believe in Him, and be His children. Then, by letting this universe be destroyed, and taking His kids to the new universe He is making. His enemies - the kids who don't want Him - go down with the destruction of this universe.

[GideonGono]

If whatever you truly ask if you want to have the same religion, do you agree? What if there are some religion you need to be was the religion you didn't want so how can you accept the agreement?

I think even me I don't agree for that and that's why we'd never get the same religion anymore.

[Balthazar]

Because the majority of people have minor defects in their brain which are causing its malfunction when it comes to morality and related issues. Religion can be considered as either patch or workaround for Human OS and its basic core routines.

[styca]

Is God getting the thing He wants? If He isn't, why in the world would he want this creation to remain. Do it over in such a way that He gets what He wants. And... He is God, so He is doing exactly that.

How is He doing it? By finding those people who are somehow willing to believe in Him, and be His children. Then, by letting this universe be destroyed, and taking His kids to the new universe He is making. His enemies - the kids who don't want Him - go down with the destruction of this universe.

Let's take some extremes to illustrate a point:

• Some people are nominal Christians, they call themselves Christian just because their parents do, but personally they have no interest in religion. They can't quote a word of the bible. Morally, meh. They do some good things and some bad things. Whatever.
• Some people are extremely kind, saint-like, will do anything to help other people. Live their whole lives without a thought for their own self-interest. But they were born to Hindu parents and follow Hindu Gods rather than Jesus. They would agree with Jesus's teachings if they heard them, but they haven't heard them, they have their own cultural tradition and Hinduism is the way to go.

Person A goes to heaven and person B goes to hell, right?

[BADecker]

Is God getting the thing He wants? If He isn't, why in the world would he want this creation to remain. Do it over in such a way that He gets what He wants. And... He is God, so He is doing exactly that.

How is He doing it? By finding those people who are somehow willing to believe in Him, and be His children. Then, by letting this universe be destroyed, and taking His kids to the new universe He is making. His enemies - the kids who don't want Him - go down with the destruction of this universe.

Let's take some extremes to illustrate a point:

• Some people are nominal Christians, they call themselves Christian just because their parents do, but personally they have no interest in religion. They can't quote a word of the bible. Morally, meh. They do some good things and some bad things. Whatever.
• Some people are extremely kind, saint-like, will do anything to help other people. Live their whole lives without a thought for their own self-interest. But they were born to Hindu parents and follow Hindu Gods rather than Jesus. They would agree with Jesus's teachings if they heard them, but they haven't heard them, they have their own cultural tradition and Hinduism is the way to go.

Person A goes to heaven and person B goes to hell, right?

We don't know that.

St. Paul tells us that whatever doesn't come from faith is sin. That means that if an unbeliever in Jesus-salvation makes only one mistake, he is lost because nothing that he does comes from faith. Even the good things are all sin.

Conversely, if a believer in Jesus-salvation does only one good thing in his whole life, Jesus took the punishment for all those sins he did. All that's left is the one good thing. The good thing is done in faith because he is a believer. So he is saved by faith.

[styca]

St. Paul tells us that whatever doesn't come from faith is sin. That means that if an unbeliever in Jesus-salvation makes only one mistake, he is lost because nothing that he does comes from faith. Even the good things are all sin.

Conversely, if a believer in Jesus-salvation does only one good thing in his whole life, Jesus took the punishment for all those sins he did. All that's left is the one good thing. The good thing is done in faith because he is a believer. So he is saved by faith.

So:
Someone who does good for 99.99% of his life but doesn't believe in Jesus goes to hell.
Someone who does bad for 99.99% of his life but does believe in Jesus goes to heaven.

So someone can commit all kinds of horrible acts throughout their life, but one good act at the end redeems them? Assuming that act is made in good faith as they suddenly see the light?

[BADecker]

St. Paul tells us that whatever doesn't come from faith is sin. That means that if an unbeliever in Jesus-salvation makes only one mistake, he is lost because nothing that he does comes from faith. Even the good things are all sin.

Conversely, if a believer in Jesus-salvation does only one good thing in his whole life, Jesus took the punishment for all those sins he did. All that's left is the one good thing. The good thing is done in faith because he is a believer. So he is saved by faith.

So:
Someone who does good for 99.99% of his life but doesn't believe in Jesus goes to hell.
Someone who does bad for 99.99% of his life but does believe in Jesus goes to heaven.

So someone can commit all kinds of horrible acts throughout their life, but one good act at the end redeems them? Assuming that act is made in good faith as they suddenly see the light?

You got it, man... with certain explanation reservations.

If the first act that the guy does is his good one, and he lives a normal life to age 90, the bad acts will destroy his faith.

Jesus took the destruction punishment for all people. That's why anybody can have faith in Jesus-salvation.

Jesus, being the Son of God, had the strength to arise from death, so that He can give life to all people.

Unbelief is essentially rejection of salvation. The unbeliever will have the life that Jesus won for him. But that life will be away from God, as the unbeliever wishes. Where else for the eternal life of the unbeliever to exist?, but in the destruction of this universe where everything that is wrong will be destroyed... though that destruction takes forever. Eternal destruction for the unbeliever by his own wish.

[guigui371]

You got it, man... with certain explanation reservations.

If the first act that the guy does is his good one, and he lives a normal life to age 90, the bad acts will destroy his faith.

Jesus took the destruction punishment for all people. That's why anybody can have faith in Jesus-salvation.

Jesus, being the Son of God, had the strength to arise from death, so that He can give life to all people.

Unbelief is essentially rejection of salvation. The unbeliever will have the life that Jesus won for him. But that life will be away from God, as the unbeliever wishes. Where else for the eternal life of the unbeliever to exist?, but in the destruction of this universe where everything that is wrong will be destroyed... though that destruction takes forever. Eternal destruction for the unbeliever by his own wish.

Are we talking about the brown Arab Jesus, born from jew parents (Marie was jew, and god is Jew + Joseph was also Jew) in a Arab/jew country that speak a mix of Yiddish and Arabic ? 
 Jesus was not white, didn't have blue eyes and didn't speak Italian.

And also, Jew, Muslim and Christian all believe in Jesus Christ, and the same God (The same way BTC, BSV and BCH all refers to Satoshi Nakamoto as the first person to initiate their blockchain.  )

So the jew and the Muslim will also go to paradise (along side with the Christians)... On the other hand, The Hindu, The Buddhist and the Taoist will go to Hell ... I feel bad for the Dalai Lama 

[BADecker]

On the other hand, The Hindu, The Buddhist and the Taoist will go to Hell ... I feel bad for the Dalai Lama 

If you feel so bad for the Dalai Lama, why aren't you out there trying to convert him?

[styca]

And also, Jew, Muslim and Christian all believe in Jesus Christ, and the same God (The same way BTC, BSV and BCH all refers to Satoshi Nakamoto as the first person to initiate their blockchain.  )

So the jew and the Muslim will also go to paradise (along side with the Christians)... On the other hand, The Hindu, The Buddhist and the Taoist will go to Hell ... I feel bad for the Dalai Lama 

Yes, exactly. Plus what about the people who would believe in Jesus, but haven't heard of him - not just uncontacted human tribes in the depths of the Amazon, but what about babies who die in infancy?

[BADecker]

And also, Jew, Muslim and Christian all believe in Jesus Christ, and the same God (The same way BTC, BSV and BCH all refers to Satoshi Nakamoto as the first person to initiate their blockchain.  )

So the jew and the Muslim will also go to paradise (along side with the Christians)... On the other hand, The Hindu, The Buddhist and the Taoist will go to Hell ... I feel bad for the Dalai Lama 

Yes, exactly. Plus what about the people who would believe in Jesus, but haven't heard of him - not just uncontacted human tribes in the depths of the Amazon, but what about babies who die in infancy?

In the Gospels in the Bible, Jesus says that unless we become like little children, we won't make it to Heaven. Since faith in Jesus salvation is the only way, how can little children believe in something that they have never heard of? Here's how.

When God gave the authority for the whole universe over to Jesus - as spoken about in a reasonable number of places in the Bible - the authority wasn't limited to the time of Jesus. It covered the whole space-time continuum. So, it is Jesus Who is putting people together in their mommies' tummies. Since the only thing that a little child knows is Jesus (even though the child doesn't know how to express it), the child knows Jesus better than all the adults, who all have forgotten their original Jesus-experience, and filled their minds and spirits with the things of their adulthood.

If people of any other religion believe in Jesus-salvation, they are Christians, in addition to whatever else they believe in. If they believe in Jesus, and also believe in something that contradicts Jesus, God will have to decide what the true direction of their faith really is.

[styca]

Do Catholics with coeliac disease go to hell because they can't take communion? Because they are literally allergic to the body of Christ. So they are all devils, right? 

[DaftAjax]

<...>

So in short, "Jesus-Salvation" is like a function, that the God coded so that he wouldn't worry when filtering out people from believers to non-believers. Then what's this quote in the bibble where "God treats/sees all of His children equally"? Can you explain what does this exactly implies?

IIRC, God created "everything", and when I say everything, I mean "every single thing". Then why did He created Hell? Why(?) so that in case people don't love him back you're gonna kiss your soul goodbye? So much for a "loving" God if you ask me. Now you might misunderstand and might brand me as an anti-Christ (then again, who are you to judge), but what I simply want is to understand it. Not to mention "Demons", what's the purpose of those? Does God really love "everything" He created so much that he just simply created a place (Hell) just for them? Then, what about the people that have been influenced by these creatures?

Another thing, if what God really wants is for people to worship/adore/believe Him, then why bother creating Humans if some of them would just disobey Him? What does "living" really mean then(?), if right from to the start you are to dedicate yourself to Him after all? Wouldn't it just be good to just not exist in the first place? Why bother finding ones-self?

If people of any other religion believe in Jesus-salvation, they are Christians, in addition to whatever else they believe in. If they believe in Jesus, and also believe in something that contradicts Jesus, God will have to decide what the true direction of their faith really is.

IIRC, you don't just have to "believe" in Jesus-Salvation. You need to embrace it as well, so how would you do that exactly?

[styca]

Another thing, if what God really wants is for people to worship/adore/believe Him, then why bother creating Humans if some of them would just disobey Him?

Yes. If God made everything, if he made me as I am and he made the way I think, and he did the same for everyone, then...

There are some people (e.g., me) who will never believe in God, and even if God is proven to exist I will still refuse to worship him.
But "God" made me this way. He made me so that I would never believe in him and never worship him.
When he made me, he knew that he was condemning me to hell, because he is omnipotent and omniscient and he knows everything I am and exactly how I will act in every circumstance.

This is a part of why some people (e.g., me) think that if God exists, then he is pure evil.

[DaftAjax]

Another thing, if what God really wants is for people to worship/adore/believe Him, then why bother creating Humans if some of them would just disobey Him?

Yes. If God made everything, if he made me as I am and he made the way I think, and he did the same for everyone, then...

There are some people (e.g., me) who will never believe in God, and even if God is proven to exist I will still refuse to worship him.
But "God" made me this way. He made me so that I would never believe in him and never worship him.
When he made me, he knew that he was condemning me to hell, because he is omnipotent and omniscient and he knows everything I am and exactly how I will act in every circumstance.

Disclaimer: I am neither an anti-Christ nor a worshiper.

Firstly, I said that I am not an anti (after all, they can do whatever they want), because some of the teachings in the Bible are indeed enlightening--then again, what I don't like about Religion is, the leaders, popes, pastors, saints, whatever, they tend to derail the supposedly "true" message, meaning behind it. If "history" doesn't teach you about Religion then I don't know what is.

And secondly, I am not a worshipper, even if I said that some teachings in the Bible are enlightening, I still have doubts. As "language" is indeed a "barrier", I do not trust the translations of the "Bibble" that we now know today. Is it really accurate? IIRC, "The Bible" (the legitimate one) is on a museum (don't @ me on this). And the legitimate content of it remains a mystery. Because as I come to age, I suddenly thought about the "bibble" we knew is another manipulative (a hoax) strategy of a certain organization that wants control over peoples' beliefs.

This is a part of why some people (e.g., me) think that if God exists, then he is pure evil.

This reminds me of a show called "The Saga of Tanya the Evil". The show has indeed tackled a number of points towards this "mighty, highly" being called God.

[BADecker]

Do Catholics with coeliac disease go to hell because they can't take communion? Because they are literally allergic to the body of Christ. So they are all devils, right? 

Faith saves, not communion or lack of it. If they have faith in Jesus salvation, and in good faith think that their disease prohibits them from taking communion, their faith saves them.

The interesting thing is that any Christian can call any other Christian to serve him communion. If the other accepts the call, communion can be served by any Christian.

[BADecker]

<...>

So in short, "Jesus-Salvation" is like a function, that the God coded so that he wouldn't worry when filtering out people from believers to non-believers. Then what's this quote in the bibble where "God treats/sees all of His children equally"? Can you explain what does this exactly implies?

IIRC, God created "everything", and when I say everything, I mean "every single thing". Then why did He created Hell? Why(?) so that in case people don't love him back you're gonna kiss your soul goodbye? So much for a "loving" God if you ask me. Now you might misunderstand and might brand me as an anti-Christ (then again, who are you to judge), but what I simply want is to understand it. Not to mention "Demons", what's the purpose of those? Does God really love "everything" He created so much that he just simply created a place (Hell) just for them? Then, what about the people that have been influenced by these creatures?

Another thing, if what God really wants is for people to worship/adore/believe Him, then why bother creating Humans if some of them would just disobey Him? What does "living" really mean then(?), if right from to the start you are to dedicate yourself to Him after all? Wouldn't it just be good to just not exist in the first place? Why bother finding ones-self?

If people of any other religion believe in Jesus-salvation, they are Christians, in addition to whatever else they believe in. If they believe in Jesus, and also believe in something that contradicts Jesus, God will have to decide what the true direction of their faith really is.

IIRC, you don't just have to "believe" in Jesus-Salvation. You need to embrace it as well, so how would you do that exactly?

The term "Jesus-salvation" might be like a function. But Jesus salvation is this. God didn't make mankind because He didn't care. God wanted mankind to exist righteously, for His own purposes.

The only way mankind could remain after they had destroyed their own perfection, was if someone strong enough could take all the punishment that was due to mankind for their imperfection they had gotten themselves into, would take it. This included taking death for all people.

Jesus is the Son of God. He live a perfect life as a man, and being God, He was strong enough to take all the punishment for all mankind, including death. Since He did this, and then offered the salvation He won to all mankind, the rest of it is simply technicalities. The first and major technicality is faith in Jesus.

The embracing of Jesus salvation starts happening after the judgment. All we need in this life is faith.

[guigui371]

Jesus is the Son of God. He live a perfect life as a man, and being God, He was strong enough to take all the punishment for all mankind, including death. Since He did this, and then offered the salvation He won to all mankind, the rest of it is simply technicalities. The first and major technicality is faith in Jesus.

The embracing of Jesus salvation starts happening after the judgment. All we need in this life is faith.

If Jesus is the son of God, keep in mind that God is Jew, and because Marie (Jesus's mother) is a Jew, then  Jesus is a Jew (an actual historical true fact).
All of Jesus's "children" are Jew too (technically the Jew religion is passed through the mother... but let's no go this way ).
Conclusion :
All the Christians are Jew.

Other way to see it, God created all beings.
God is Jew, hence all beings are Jew. 

So how does it work ? Are Christian-Jews still accepted to heaven ?
Is heaven Jew ?
So many questions.... 

[BADecker]

Jesus is the Son of God. He live a perfect life as a man, and being God, He was strong enough to take all the punishment for all mankind, including death. Since He did this, and then offered the salvation He won to all mankind, the rest of it is simply technicalities. The first and major technicality is faith in Jesus.

The embracing of Jesus salvation starts happening after the judgment. All we need in this life is faith.

If Jesus is the son of God, keep in mind that God is Jew, and because Marie (Jesus's mother) is a Jew, then  Jesus is a Jew (an actual historical true fact).
All of Jesus's "children" are Jew too (technically the Jew religion is passed through the mother... but let's no go this way ).
Conclusion :
All the Christians are Jew.

Other way to see it, God created all beings.
God is Jew, hence all beings are Jew. 

So how does it work ? Are Christian-Jews still accepted to heaven ?
Is heaven Jew ?
So many questions.... 

Except that the New Testament record shows that Gentiles were Christian without becoming Jewish. In fact, in the Acts of the Apostles, St. Paul and Barnabas distinctly went to the leaders of the early church - Peter and the other apostles - and received a ruling from them that Gentiles didn't have to follow Jewish laws, but were still able to become Christians.

God is perfect. But if you look throughout the O.T., you see the many ways that the Jews fell from perfection... even up to the point where God had to destroy them for their disobedience. Jesus in the part of Him that is God, never was a Jew.

True Christians will make it to Heaven, no matter what else they are. A true Christian will never act 100% bad. There will always be recognizable good in him. But if his faith is becoming weak, God will do what it takes to keep him from completely falling out of faith. However, a Christian can fight God's correction enough that he loses his faith to the point that he is no longer saved. If this happens, he will never be able to be brought back to saving faith again. It's in the Bible.

[styca]

Bit of a digression, but shouldn't Judas be a huge hero to Christians? I don't understand how he's portayed as this monstrous evil figure.
If God's plan was that Jesus be sacrified, that Jesus surrender himself for man's sins, then didn't Judas do the same thing? Not only was he helping Jesus in his quest to be crucified, but he (Judas) also paid terribly for his 'crime'... and with God foreseeing that all this would happen, God having made Judas in such a way that he would be 100% guaranteed to 'betray' Jesus. Shouldn't Judas be revered as a Christian martyr?

[BADecker]

Bit of a digression, but shouldn't Judas be a huge hero to Christians? I don't understand how he's portayed as this monstrous evil figure.
If God's plan was that Jesus be sacrified, that Jesus surrender himself for man's sins, then didn't Judas do the same thing? Not only was he helping Jesus in his quest to be crucified, but he (Judas) also paid terribly for his 'crime'... and with God foreseeing that all this would happen, God having made Judas in such a way that he would be 100% guaranteed to 'betray' Jesus. Shouldn't Judas be revered as a Christian martyr?

Judas betrayed, for money.
Judas repented only in mental thinking, not in salvation thinking,
Judas committed suicide.
Some hero.

Just because God knows what will happen, doesn't mean He allows Himself to be aware of every aspect His own knowledge all the time. God had a timing plan for Jesus. It is even said, where the Jews did not capture Jesus because "His time had not come." God is so great that He doesn't need to know something to keep his plans from being thwarted.

All that we know about God is from God either building the knowledge into us, or from revelation directly from God. God is countless magnitudes of every form of power and weakness ahead of us than we are above microbes.

[styca]

Judas betrayed, for money.
Judas repented only in mental thinking, not in salvation thinking,
Judas committed suicide.
Some hero.

Judas betrayed, for money, because God made him that way.
Judas repented only in mental thinking, not in salvation thinking, because God made him that way.
Judas committed suicide because God made him that way.

So Judas was condemned to hell from the moment of his birth, without any chance to redeem himself? If he didn't betray Jesus then he would have gone against God''s plan. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

God is countless magnitudes of every form of power and weakness ahead of us than we are above microbes.

This can't be the answer to every question though.

[BADecker]

Judas betrayed, for money.
Judas repented only in mental thinking, not in salvation thinking,
Judas committed suicide.
Some hero.

Judas betrayed, for money, because God made him that way.
Judas repented only in mental thinking, not in salvation thinking, because God made him that way.
Judas committed suicide because God made him that way.

So Judas was condemned to hell from the moment of his birth, without any chance to redeem himself? If he didn't betray Jesus then he would have gone against God''s plan. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

God is countless magnitudes of every form of power and weakness ahead of us than we are above microbes.

This can't be the answer to every question though.

God gave Judas freedom to make his own decisions. God made him the way he was, because people are so weak that they cannot do anything on their own. People make their decisions, and God carries out the activities of their decisions. Since this was the way things were set up from the beginning, God would have to sin by doing the wrong that wrong decisions of mankind made Him do. This is why Jesus, who was both man and God, had to take the punishment for all mankind, including death. Since Jesus's death and suffering was a thing that God set up, God was doing only good and right in all of it. He proved this by raising Jesus from the dead.

Why might anyone think that God's greatness over mankind WASN'T the answer to everything? But if you look closely, you will see that there are other answers as well. You keep limiting your view to tininess just so you can justify yourself by trying to prove that there is no God who you are sinning against.

[styca]

God gave Judas freedom to make his own decisions.

Whether or not he can make his own decisions is moot though.
The point is that an all-knowing God is aware of exactly what circumstances Judas will face, and exactly what decisions he will take. And this follows for everyone, not just Judas.

Whoever goes to hell does so purely because God made them so that they would.

[BADecker]

God gave Judas freedom to make his own decisions.

Whether or not he can make his own decisions is moot though.
The point is that an all-knowing God is aware of exactly what circumstances Judas will face, and exactly what decisions he will take. And this follows for everyone, not just Judas.

Whoever goes to hell does so purely because God made them so that they would.

God gave us all free choice, so we would make our own decision for Heaven or Hell. Since He wants us to go to Heaven, if we choose Heaven, He will reinforce it in us. What does this have to do with the fact that God knows everything? You are saying two opposites at the same time. You are saying that people can make their own decisions, but that God made their decisions for them.

In addition, have you ever watched a good movie more than once? If you did, why? You already knew the outcome.

Is there anything in your life that you know all about? But you set it aside because you are focusing on something else. While God is different than we are, you can see that just knowing all about something doesn't mean you have to focus on every aspect of it all the time.

[DaftAjax]

God gave us all free choice,

If God really gave us the freedom of choice, why'd He have to make Jesus exist? If we really are entitled to our own choice/decision then what's the point of Him? Is God afraid that His people would disobey Him? So he created Jesus, His son, to be sacrificed, so that He can enforce His people to worship Him? If the only right thing to do is to worship Him? That's some God's plan right there. Not to mention, "a freedom of choice" indeed. What's the point of life then.

[styca]

God gave us all free choice, so we would make our own decision for Heaven or Hell. Since He wants us to go to Heaven, if we choose Heaven, He will reinforce it in us. What does this have to do with the fact that God knows everything? You are saying two opposites at the same time. You are saying that people can make their own decisions, but that God made their decisions for them.

No, I'm not saying God did anything. God doesn't exist.

I'm saying, hypothetically, if an all-knowing all-powerful God exists and created everything in the universe, then God already knows the outcome of everything. In such a universe "free will" and "our own decisions" become irrelevant. Everything happens because God made it so. We react in a certain way in certain situations because God made those situations and made us.

I'm saying that if God exists (which he doesn't), he condemns some people to hell from the moment he creates them. He creates a man, and he knows instantly that this man will be a murderer will never believe in God and will die at age 20 when he is shot and will never seek forgiveness for his crimes. He knows that the person he has just created will go to hell.

[BADecker]

God gave us all free choice,

If God really gave us the freedom of choice, why'd He have to make Jesus exist? If we really are entitled to our own choice/decision then what's the point of Him? Is God afraid that His people would disobey Him? So he created Jesus, His son, to be sacrificed, so that He can enforce His people to worship Him? If the only right thing to do is to worship Him? That's some God's plan right there. Not to mention, "a freedom of choice" indeed. What's the point of life then.

You have the freedom of choice to intentionally smash your thumb with a hammer. If you do it, it doesn't hurt God in the least, except that he might feel sorry for you in your stupidity. If you are living in a time or place that doesn't have bandages, God might even supply you with some material that you can use to bandage your thumb.

When God provides materials in nature so that you can fix your smashed thumb, how is it that you don't naturally want to at least thank Him?

When we talk about Jesus... Jesus is God's way of providing materials for you to bandage your broken life. If you don't want to accept salvation, okay. No skin off God's nose. He'll simply stop feeling sorry for you in your stupid state, if you are unwilling to fix yourself with the salvation that He provides. Remember, there isn't any other salvation that fixes eternal death.

[BADecker]

God gave us all free choice, so we would make our own decision for Heaven or Hell. Since He wants us to go to Heaven, if we choose Heaven, He will reinforce it in us. What does this have to do with the fact that God knows everything? You are saying two opposites at the same time. You are saying that people can make their own decisions, but that God made their decisions for them.

No, I'm not saying God did anything. God doesn't exist.

I'm saying, hypothetically, if an all-knowing all-powerful God exists and created everything in the universe, then God already knows the outcome of everything. In such a universe "free will" and "our own decisions" become irrelevant. Everything happens because God made it so. We react in a certain way in certain situations because God made those situations and made us.

I'm saying that if God exists (which he doesn't), he condemns some people to hell from the moment he creates them. He creates a man, and he knows instantly that this man will be a murderer will never believe in God and will die at age 20 when he is shot and will never seek forgiveness for his crimes. He knows that the person he has just created will go to hell.

God gave you the ability to freely choose to talk yourself into thinking that He doesn't exist. You don't have to use that free choice, of course. It's up to you.

In a God-created universe, if He created free will into it, then free-will is just as important as anything else. After all, everything happens because God made it so... even free will and free choice.

God doesn't condemn anyone to Hell. Those who go there, have condemned themselves there, by choosing to not believe the Jesus salvation that God provides.

If a badly sinful person (one who will never accept Jesus salvation) dies young, isn't it a good thing? I mean, how sadistic can you be? Do you want him to live to the age of 200, sinning worse every year than the previous year, so that he has 200 years worth of sins to pay for in eternal Hell? Wouldn't it be a whole lot better for him if he died young?

[gabmen]

God gave us all free choice, so we would make our own decision for Heaven or Hell. Since He wants us to go to Heaven, if we choose Heaven, He will reinforce it in us. What does this have to do with the fact that God knows everything? You are saying two opposites at the same time. You are saying that people can make their own decisions, but that God made their decisions for them.

No, I'm not saying God did anything. God doesn't exist.

I'm saying, hypothetically, if an all-knowing all-powerful God exists and created everything in the universe, then God already knows the outcome of everything. In such a universe "free will" and "our own decisions" become irrelevant. Everything happens because God made it so. We react in a certain way in certain situations because God made those situations and made us.

I'm saying that if God exists (which he doesn't), he condemns some people to hell from the moment he creates them. He creates a man, and he knows instantly that this man will be a murderer will never believe in God and will die at age 20 when he is shot and will never seek forgiveness for his crimes. He knows that the person he has just created will go to hell.

God gave you the ability to freely choose to talk yourself into thinking that He doesn't exist. You don't have to use that free choice, of course. It's up to you.

In a God-created universe, if He created free will into it, then free-will is just as important as anything else. After all, everything happens because God made it so... even free will and free choice.

God doesn't condemn anyone to Hell. Those who go there, have condemned themselves there, by choosing to not believe the Jesus salvation that God provides.

If a badly sinful person (one who will never accept Jesus salvation) dies young, isn't it a good thing? I mean, how sadistic can you be? Do you want him to live to the age of 200, sinning worse every year than the previous year, so that he has 200 years worth of sins to pay for in eternal Hell? Wouldn't it be a whole lot better for him if he died young?

What i find hard to grasp is that, out of the immensity of the universe, why would it's creator focus on a small speck of dust like the earth, with its different religions?

 I've tried considering this, just in our solar system itself, we're pretty small and insignificant already. Then there probably are billions of solar systems within the milky way. Then there probably are billions of galaxies that compose just the known observable universe.

Out of the immensity of this, i find it hard to comprehend that someone who created all these would spend time singling and sorting out humans for their beliefs and assigning them to a heaven or hell.

I mean, do other living organisms on other parts of the universe have their own jesuses and mohammads?

The way i see it, it's really pretty petty arguing which religion is right or which is wrong when all these vastness is laid upon you. The universe is not here for us. Instead of killing each other about which god is the right god, having petty arguments that no one really will win, we should just look after each other.

[styca]

What i find hard to grasp is that, out of the immensity of the universe, why would it's creator focus on a small speck of dust like the earth, with its different religions?

 I've tried considering this, just in our solar system itself, we're pretty small and insignificant already. Then there probably are billions of solar systems within the milky way. Then there probably are billions of galaxies that compose just the known observable universe.

Out of the immensity of this, i find it hard to comprehend that someone who created all these would spend time singling and sorting out humans for their beliefs and assigning them to a heaven or hell.

I mean, do other living organisms on other parts of the universe have their own jesus' and mohammeds?

The way i see it, it's really pretty petty arguing which religion is right or which is wrong when all these vastness is laid upon you. The universe is not here for us. Instead of killing each other about which god is the right god, having petty arguments that no one really will win, we should just look after each other.

Exactly. The universe is vast and awe-inspiring, we should take the big picture (like science does) rather than focussing on viewing everything from a human perspective. Science has proven that Earth is not the centre of the universe. And neither are the people who live on it. We need to get over ourselves.

[BADecker]

God gave us all free choice, so we would make our own decision for Heaven or Hell. Since He wants us to go to Heaven, if we choose Heaven, He will reinforce it in us. What does this have to do with the fact that God knows everything? You are saying two opposites at the same time. You are saying that people can make their own decisions, but that God made their decisions for them.

No, I'm not saying God did anything. God doesn't exist.

I'm saying, hypothetically, if an all-knowing all-powerful God exists and created everything in the universe, then God already knows the outcome of everything. In such a universe "free will" and "our own decisions" become irrelevant. Everything happens because God made it so. We react in a certain way in certain situations because God made those situations and made us.

I'm saying that if God exists (which he doesn't), he condemns some people to hell from the moment he creates them. He creates a man, and he knows instantly that this man will be a murderer will never believe in God and will die at age 20 when he is shot and will never seek forgiveness for his crimes. He knows that the person he has just created will go to hell.

God gave you the ability to freely choose to talk yourself into thinking that He doesn't exist. You don't have to use that free choice, of course. It's up to you.

In a God-created universe, if He created free will into it, then free-will is just as important as anything else. After all, everything happens because God made it so... even free will and free choice.

God doesn't condemn anyone to Hell. Those who go there, have condemned themselves there, by choosing to not believe the Jesus salvation that God provides.

If a badly sinful person (one who will never accept Jesus salvation) dies young, isn't it a good thing? I mean, how sadistic can you be? Do you want him to live to the age of 200, sinning worse every year than the previous year, so that he has 200 years worth of sins to pay for in eternal Hell? Wouldn't it be a whole lot better for him if he died young?

What i find hard to grasp is that, out of the immensity of the universe, why would it's creator focus on a small speck of dust like the earth, with its different religions?

 I've tried considering this, just in our solar system itself, we're pretty small and insignificant already. Then there probably are billions of solar systems within the milky way. Then there probably are billions of galaxies that compose just the known observable universe.

Out of the immensity of this, i find it hard to comprehend that someone who created all these would spend time singling and sorting out humans for their beliefs and assigning them to a heaven or hell.

I mean, do other living organisms on other parts of the universe have their own jesuses and mohammads?

The way i see it, it's really pretty petty arguing which religion is right or which is wrong when all these vastness is laid upon you. The universe is not here for us. Instead of killing each other about which god is the right god, having petty arguments that no one really will win, we should just look after each other.

Killing each other is not what God wanted, even when we don't know much about Him, or even recognize the same god as others believe in. Any killing has to do with getting rid of people who are so extremely evil that they are wrecking society for everyone. But we have governments to do this.

As for God creating mankind... We don't know much of the thinking of God. If God, for His own purposes, created mankind, say, to rule the universe, or to colonize other worlds, how would we know except if He made that knowledge available to us?

If people had remained in perfection (Garden of Eden) so that they never died, populating other planets is exactly the thing that God might have wanted. After all, when populations on Earth are so great that there is standing room only - and such is what would have happened if there were no sin and death, and especially if everything had remained as healthy as it was in the beginning, people would populate faster than rabbits - where would they go just to live?

God hasn't revealed the plan that He had for us at the beginning. Why not? Because we sinned, and death entered. The whole scene changed. Population no longer has to do with going to the stars. Rather, it has to do with finding a way out of death. And not out of death for those who are still alive, but out of death for all who have died, as well.

Take a look at Ancient Israel in Exodus in the Bible. Israel was going to the Promised Land. When they got to the borders, they rebelled, and didn't enter in like God wanted them to. So, God told them that they would have to spend some time (40 years) wandering around in the wilderness. But then they tried to go into the Promised Land anyway. And a bunch of them died for it.

Now, we are trying to go into space, to populate the moon and Mars. This might have been the plan in the beginning, but mankind changed the plan by sinning. It won't work... populating Mars. A bunch of people died trying for the Promised Land in the Exodus, and they will die trying for Mars.

The point? If there are aliens out there, they are only there to maintain the planets until mankind would get there. But we don't know that they are even there.

The thing we should be doing is working with God in His method for us to live forever, and to even bring back life to all those who have died. What is this method? Jesus salvation!

[DaftAjax]

You have the freedom of choice to intentionally smash your thumb with a hammer. If you do it, it doesn't hurt God in the least, except that he might feel sorry for you in your stupidity. If you are living in a time or place that doesn't have bandages, God might even supply you with some material that you can use to bandage your thumb.

When God provides materials in nature so that you can fix your smashed thumb, how is it that you don't naturally want to at least thank Him?

Does stupidity really apply to people? I am always skeptical about that. I think the word "stupid" is just a metaphor. Humans are naturally smart--genius even.

You said that God wouldn't be hurt in the least? (when did He ever said He wouldn't?) And here I thought God created humans according to his own image(?), hence makes His creations a replication of Himself. And therefore if His people get hurt, He will as well. After all, who wouldn't be hurt if your creation is being crushed? To sum it up, He shouldn't, wouldn't even let His people smash their own thumbs.

So you really are fixated that everything happened in your life is in this so-called "God's plan"?

When we talk about Jesus... Jesus is God's way of providing materials for you to bandage your broken life. If you don't want to accept salvation, okay. No skin off God's nose. He'll simply stop feeling sorry for you in your stupid state, if you are unwilling to fix yourself with the salvation that He provides.

Just because some people (e.g. me) does not have the same ideals as you are, makes them "stupid". And when did God became a "tyrant"? I am starting to think that, those are your words, not His.

What i find hard to grasp is that, out of the immensity of the universe, why would it's creator focus on a small speck of dust like the earth, with its different religions?

 I've tried considering this, just in our solar system itself, we're pretty small and insignificant already. Then there probably are billions of solar systems within the milky way. Then there probably are billions of galaxies that compose just the known observable universe.

Out of the immensity of this, i find it hard to comprehend that someone who created all these would spend time singling and sorting out humans for their beliefs and assigning them to a heaven or hell.

I mean, do other living organisms on other parts of the universe have their own jesuses and mohammads?

The way i see it, it's really pretty petty arguing which religion is right or which is wrong when all these vastness is laid upon you. The universe is not here for us. Instead of killing each other about which god is the right god, having petty arguments that no one really will win, we should just look after each other.

Well said. That's the main reason why I always find "religions", are just supposed to be guides, or even to have/maintain order over people, its country. That's why in the Middle Ages, they say that the Royalty and the Religion are the main pillars of a kingdom. And considering how vast the universe is, we're not the only civilization to ever exist. So other civilizations would probably have their own "God" (wouldn't probably be called God), their own "Jesus" (wouldn't probably be called Jesus as well), and their own religion(s)--that's definitely not Christianism.

Then what's that to say about this so-called "salvation"? Oh, you would probably say, "but we didn't know they exist, can you provide evidence first?", well, I could ask you the same, "can you prove to me God's existence?". Except that, those other civilizations to ever exist is closer to reality.

[BADecker]

You have the freedom of choice to intentionally smash your thumb with a hammer. If you do it, it doesn't hurt God in the least, except that he might feel sorry for you in your stupidity. If you are living in a time or place that doesn't have bandages, God might even supply you with some material that you can use to bandage your thumb.

When God provides materials in nature so that you can fix your smashed thumb, how is it that you don't naturally want to at least thank Him?

Does stupidity really apply to people? I am always skeptical about that. I think the word "stupid" is just a metaphor. Humans are naturally smart--genius even.

You said that God wouldn't be hurt in the least? (when did He ever said He wouldn't?) And here I thought God created humans according to his own image(?), hence makes His creations a replication of Himself. And therefore if His people get hurt, He will as well. After all, who wouldn't be hurt if your creation is being crushed? To sum it up, He shouldn't, wouldn't even let His people smash their own thumbs.

So you really are fixated that everything happened in your life is in this so-called "God's plan"?

When we talk about Jesus... Jesus is God's way of providing materials for you to bandage your broken life. If you don't want to accept salvation, okay. No skin off God's nose. He'll simply stop feeling sorry for you in your stupid state, if you are unwilling to fix yourself with the salvation that He provides.

Just because some people (e.g. me) does not have the same ideals as you are, makes them "stupid". And when did God became a "tyrant"? I am starting to think that, those are your words, not His.

Well, of course people are genius in the way they are built. But the question is, when is it stupid to show stupidity, and when is it genius to show stupidity?

Some people don't know that God isn't really affected within His essence by what we do. But at the raising of Lazarus, Jesus wept. I don't think He was weeping insincerely.

What does God making man in His image have to do with us? After all, man threw God's image away when mankind sinned in the Garden, by eating the apple.

You don't really need to learn what is happening in life before you can ask meaningless questions. Why not? Because, it's much easier to ask meaningless questions when you don't know what's going on.

[AlmazWin]

Man must believe in something

[DaftAjax]

Man must believe in something

Very few words, but true.

I think that's the sole purpose of religion(s). I have read a book, and in that world, there is no religion--it has been completely abolished by the government. It has been kept as a secret from the next generation. The world turns out pretty different. After reading, I've realized how powerful of an impact a religion could be. I mean it in a bad, and a good way.

[af_newbie]

[gabmen]

God gave us all free choice, so we would make our own decision for Heaven or Hell. Since He wants us to go to Heaven, if we choose Heaven, He will reinforce it in us. What does this have to do with the fact that God knows everything? You are saying two opposites at the same time. You are saying that people can make their own decisions, but that God made their decisions for them.

No, I'm not saying God did anything. God doesn't exist.

I'm saying, hypothetically, if an all-knowing all-powerful God exists and created everything in the universe, then God already knows the outcome of everything. In such a universe "free will" and "our own decisions" become irrelevant. Everything happens because God made it so. We react in a certain way in certain situations because God made those situations and made us.

I'm saying that if God exists (which he doesn't), he condemns some people to hell from the moment he creates them. He creates a man, and he knows instantly that this man will be a murderer will never believe in God and will die at age 20 when he is shot and will never seek forgiveness for his crimes. He knows that the person he has just created will go to hell.

God gave you the ability to freely choose to talk yourself into thinking that He doesn't exist. You don't have to use that free choice, of course. It's up to you.

In a God-created universe, if He created free will into it, then free-will is just as important as anything else. After all, everything happens because God made it so... even free will and free choice.

God doesn't condemn anyone to Hell. Those who go there, have condemned themselves there, by choosing to not believe the Jesus salvation that God provides.

If a badly sinful person (one who will never accept Jesus salvation) dies young, isn't it a good thing? I mean, how sadistic can you be? Do you want him to live to the age of 200, sinning worse every year than the previous year, so that he has 200 years worth of sins to pay for in eternal Hell? Wouldn't it be a whole lot better for him if he died young?

What i find hard to grasp is that, out of the immensity of the universe, why would it's creator focus on a small speck of dust like the earth, with its different religions?

 I've tried considering this, just in our solar system itself, we're pretty small and insignificant already. Then there probably are billions of solar systems within the milky way. Then there probably are billions of galaxies that compose just the known observable universe.

Out of the immensity of this, i find it hard to comprehend that someone who created all these would spend time singling and sorting out humans for their beliefs and assigning them to a heaven or hell.

I mean, do other living organisms on other parts of the universe have their own jesuses and mohammads?

The way i see it, it's really pretty petty arguing which religion is right or which is wrong when all these vastness is laid upon you. The universe is not here for us. Instead of killing each other about which god is the right god, having petty arguments that no one really will win, we should just look after each other.

Killing each other is not what God wanted, even when we don't know much about Him, or even recognize the same god as others believe in. Any killing has to do with getting rid of people who are so extremely evil that they are wrecking society for everyone. But we have governments to do this.

As for God creating mankind... We don't know much of the thinking of God. If God, for His own purposes, created mankind, say, to rule the universe, or to colonize other worlds, how would we know except if He made that knowledge available to us?

If people had remained in perfection (Garden of Eden) so that they never died, populating other planets is exactly the thing that God might have wanted. After all, when populations on Earth are so great that there is standing room only - and such is what would have happened if there were no sin and death, and especially if everything had remained as healthy as it was in the beginning, people would populate faster than rabbits - where would they go just to live?

God hasn't revealed the plan that He had for us at the beginning. Why not? Because we sinned, and death entered. The whole scene changed. Population no longer has to do with going to the stars. Rather, it has to do with finding a way out of death. And not out of death for those who are still alive, but out of death for all who have died, as well.

Take a look at Ancient Israel in Exodus in the Bible. Israel was going to the Promised Land. When they got to the borders, they rebelled, and didn't enter in like God wanted them to. So, God told them that they would have to spend some time (40 years) wandering around in the wilderness. But then they tried to go into the Promised Land anyway. And a bunch of them died for it.

Now, we are trying to go into space, to populate the moon and Mars. This might have been the plan in the beginning, but mankind changed the plan by sinning. It won't work... populating Mars. A bunch of people died trying for the Promised Land in the Exodus, and they will die trying for Mars.

The point? If there are aliens out there, they are only there to maintain the planets until mankind would get there. But we don't know that they are even there.

The thing we should be doing is working with God in His method for us to live forever, and to even bring back life to all those who have died. What is this method? Jesus salvation!

You're basing this from a book that was compiled less than 1500 years ago. And the final product was decided by people like you and me who actually had power at that time. This should clearly be something to be considered, right?


And again, I come to the scale I'm talking about. The universe. Believed to have started billions of years ago. If you have the power to create something of that scale, would you seriously focus on what a certain specie is doing, who they're worshipping, what they were thinking etc? Seems quite petty for someone who's that powerful, right?


And I don't think you're serious about aliens taking care of other planets for until such a time that humans can go there lol.

[BADecker]

Killing each other is not what God wanted, even when we don't know much about Him, or even recognize the same god as others believe in. Any killing has to do with getting rid of people who are so extremely evil that they are wrecking society for everyone. But we have governments to do this.

As for God creating mankind... We don't know much of the thinking of God. If God, for His own purposes, created mankind, say, to rule the universe, or to colonize other worlds, how would we know except if He made that knowledge available to us?

If people had remained in perfection (Garden of Eden) so that they never died, populating other planets is exactly the thing that God might have wanted. After all, when populations on Earth are so great that there is standing room only - and such is what would have happened if there were no sin and death, and especially if everything had remained as healthy as it was in the beginning, people would populate faster than rabbits - where would they go just to live?

God hasn't revealed the plan that He had for us at the beginning. Why not? Because we sinned, and death entered. The whole scene changed. Population no longer has to do with going to the stars. Rather, it has to do with finding a way out of death. And not out of death for those who are still alive, but out of death for all who have died, as well.

Take a look at Ancient Israel in Exodus in the Bible. Israel was going to the Promised Land. When they got to the borders, they rebelled, and didn't enter in like God wanted them to. So, God told them that they would have to spend some time (40 years) wandering around in the wilderness. But then they tried to go into the Promised Land anyway. And a bunch of them died for it.

Now, we are trying to go into space, to populate the moon and Mars. This might have been the plan in the beginning, but mankind changed the plan by sinning. It won't work... populating Mars. A bunch of people died trying for the Promised Land in the Exodus, and they will die trying for Mars.

The point? If there are aliens out there, they are only there to maintain the planets until mankind would get there. But we don't know that they are even there.

The thing we should be doing is working with God in His method for us to live forever, and to even bring back life to all those who have died. What is this method? Jesus salvation!

You're basing this from a book that was compiled less than 1500 years ago. And the final product was decided by people like you and me who actually had power at that time. This should clearly be something to be considered, right?


And again, I come to the scale I'm talking about. The universe. Believed to have started billions of years ago. If you have the power to create something of that scale, would you seriously focus on what a certain specie is doing, who they're worshipping, what they were thinking etc? Seems quite petty for someone who's that powerful, right?


And I don't think you're serious about aliens taking care of other planets for until such a time that humans can go there lol.

But, try thinking a little more. Here's some more thoughts.

1. The book compilation had other writings considered. These other writings don't change the book regarding the way we are talking. In addition, the compilation was done to clarify what was the truth. It was done by comparing the basics of the Hebrew canon with the Books that would go into the New Testament, and with the Apocrypha. Books that added things that weren't supported by the canon were left out. Books that had items that weren't verified by other N.T. books were left out of the N.T.  The process was meticulously done.

2. The universe is believed to have started about 6,000 years ago by many. The fact that others believe it to have started billions of years ago, shows that they have a religious belief. Pick your religion.

3. If I have the power to create something on the scale of the universe, how in the world can something as tiny as you second guess me or what I have in mind? My thoughts would be way beyond yours... to say nothing about the fact that you can't even read the minds of your fellow humans.

4. God says in the writings he authorized, that His focus in creation was making and supporting mankind.

5. The Bible talks about 13 classes of angels. Some of them take care of the forces in the whole of outer space - the universe. --- Look in the Revelation for the part about the Dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars out of the sky. The standard understanding is that these stars were angels. Satan, the Dragon, the Devil, whose name means Destroyer (in Revelation), thought that taking a third of the supporting angels out of the universe, would certainly destroy the universe. What He found out is that the whole universe is upheld by God... through the angels, or not through them.

6. The idea of humans going to space is my idea. But consider the context of it. If people had remained perfect, and never died, it wouldn't really take long for standing room only to be achieved on Earth... and faster than ever considering how healthy the earth was back then.

But thanks for giving me the chance to explain some of these things.

[af_newbie]

...

But, try thinking a little more. Here's some more thoughts.

1. The book compilation had other writings considered. These other writings don't change the book regarding the way we are talking. In addition, the compilation was done to clarify what was the truth. It was done by comparing the basics of the Hebrew canon with the Books that would go into the New Testament, and with the Apocrypha. Books that added things that weren't supported by the canon were left out. Books that had items that weren't verified by other N.T. books were left out of the N.T.  The process was meticulously done.

2. The universe is believed to have started about 6,000 years ago by many. The fact that others believe it to have started billions of years ago, shows that they have a religious belief. Pick your religion.

3. If I have the power to create something on the scale of the universe, how in the world can something as tiny as you second guess me or what I have in mind? My thoughts would be way beyond yours... to say nothing about the fact that you can't even read the minds of your fellow humans.

4. God says in the writings he authorized, that His focus in creation was making and supporting mankind.

5. The Bible talks about 13 classes of angels. Some of them take care of the forces in the whole of outer space - the universe. --- Look in the Revelation for the part about the Dragon's tail sweeping a third of the stars out of the sky. The standard understanding is that these stars were angels. Satan, the Dragon, the Devil, whose name means Destroyer (in Revelation), thought that taking a third of the supporting angels out of the universe, would certainly destroy the universe. What He found out is that the whole universe is upheld by God... through the angels, or not through them.

6. The idea of humans going to space is my idea. But consider the context of it. If people had remained perfect, and never died, it wouldn't really take long for standing room only to be achieved on Earth... and faster than ever considering how healthy the earth was back then.

But thanks for giving me the chance to explain some of these things.

Hmm.  Your condition is beyond my Psychiatric knowledge, but I think you might be on the edge of being schizophrenic, maybe you already crossed that threshold.  You are delusional for sure.

Please tell us more about the Dragons and the 13 classes of Angels.  Where they reside and how they affect our lives.
Tell us more about how Earth and the universe were created.

Do you hear God/Angels/Dragons when you talk to them?  
Do they tell you or influence you to do things in your life?
Do you see or hear things when you pray to God that other people around you don't see or hear?  
Do other people in your church also see strange, supernatural things when you pray together?

PS. BTW, your last post made it to the 'Crazy Christians' wall of fame. Congratulations.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1367154

[BADecker]

Hmm.  Your condition is beyond my Psychiatric knowledge, but I think you might be on the edge of being schizophrenic, maybe you already crossed that threshold.  You are delusional for sure.

Please tell us more about the Dragons and the 13 classes of Angels.  Where they reside and how they affect our lives.
Tell us more about how Earth and the universe were created.

Do you hear God/Angels/Dragons when you talk to them?  
Do they tell you or influence you to do things in your life?
Do you see or hear things when you pray to God that other people around you don't see or hear?  
Do other people in your church also see strange, supernatural things when you pray together?

PS. BTW, your last post made it to the 'Crazy Christians' wall of fame. Congratulations.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1367154

Wow! Now you are starting to act like Satan. Look at what Alan Watts says in his book, Myth and Ritual in Christianity, about the way that real devils really act. Of course, you really aren't quite clever enough for this, yet. But keep practicing:

The true Satanist must always have the outward aspect of an angel of light, and will never, under any circumstances, resort to the cruder, violent types of evil. He must be so clever that only an expert in holiness can discern him, for in  this way he may far more effectively mislead the sons of men and please his infernal Master, whose supreme craft lies in Deception, and subtle confusion of the truth.

Alan Watts, himself, was only a novice in Deception (as he calls it). Rather, he was one of the more out-in-the open deceptionists.

Keep on practicing. Soon you will be able to join the Church, just to make money, and destroy it from the inside.

We're all praying that you wake up and come to salvation, of course.

[af_newbie]

Hmm.  Your condition is beyond my Psychiatric knowledge, but I think you might be on the edge of being schizophrenic, maybe you already crossed that threshold.  You are delusional for sure.

Please tell us more about the Dragons and the 13 classes of Angels.  Where they reside and how they affect our lives.
Tell us more about how Earth and the universe were created.

Do you hear God/Angels/Dragons when you talk to them?  
Do they tell you or influence you to do things in your life?
Do you see or hear things when you pray to God that other people around you don't see or hear?  
Do other people in your church also see strange, supernatural things when you pray together?

PS. BTW, your last post made it to the 'Crazy Christians' wall of fame. Congratulations.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1367154

Wow! Now you are starting to act like Satan. Look at what Alan Watts says in his book, Myth and Ritual in Christianity, about the way that real devils really act. Of course, you really aren't quite clever enough for this, yet. But keep practicing:

The true Satanist must always have the outward aspect of an angel of light, and will never, under any circumstances, resort to the cruder, violent types of evil. He must be so clever that only an expert in holiness can discern him, for in  this way he may far more effectively mislead the sons of men and please his infernal Master, whose supreme craft lies in Deception, and subtle confusion of the truth.

Alan Watts, himself, was only a novice in Deception (as he calls it). Rather, he was one of the more out-in-the open deceptionists.

Keep on practicing. Soon you will be able to join the Church, just to make money, and destroy it from the inside.

We're all praying that you wake up and come to salvation, of course.

And we are back to mythological nonsense. 

[BADecker]

Hmm.  Your condition is beyond my Psychiatric knowledge, but I think you might be on the edge of being schizophrenic, maybe you already crossed that threshold.  You are delusional for sure.

Please tell us more about the Dragons and the 13 classes of Angels.  Where they reside and how they affect our lives.
Tell us more about how Earth and the universe were created.

Do you hear God/Angels/Dragons when you talk to them?  
Do they tell you or influence you to do things in your life?
Do you see or hear things when you pray to God that other people around you don't see or hear?  
Do other people in your church also see strange, supernatural things when you pray together?

PS. BTW, your last post made it to the 'Crazy Christians' wall of fame. Congratulations.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1367154

Wow! Now you are starting to act like Satan. Look at what Alan Watts says in his book, Myth and Ritual in Christianity, about the way that real devils really act. Of course, you really aren't quite clever enough for this, yet. But keep practicing:

The true Satanist must always have the outward aspect of an angel of light, and will never, under any circumstances, resort to the cruder, violent types of evil. He must be so clever that only an expert in holiness can discern him, for in  this way he may far more effectively mislead the sons of men and please his infernal Master, whose supreme craft lies in Deception, and subtle confusion of the truth.

Alan Watts, himself, was only a novice in Deception (as he calls it). Rather, he was one of the more out-in-the open deceptionists.

Keep on practicing. Soon you will be able to join the Church, just to make money, and destroy it from the inside.

We're all praying that you wake up and come to salvation, of course.

And we are back to mythological nonsense.  

You carry your mythological nonsense with you wherever you go... that God doesn't exist.

(Btw, you didn't place a question mark at the end of your question.)

[af_newbie]

Hmm.  Your condition is beyond my Psychiatric knowledge, but I think you might be on the edge of being schizophrenic, maybe you already crossed that threshold.  You are delusional for sure.

Please tell us more about the Dragons and the 13 classes of Angels.  Where they reside and how they affect our lives.
Tell us more about how Earth and the universe were created.

Do you hear God/Angels/Dragons when you talk to them?  
Do they tell you or influence you to do things in your life?
Do you see or hear things when you pray to God that other people around you don't see or hear?  
Do other people in your church also see strange, supernatural things when you pray together?

PS. BTW, your last post made it to the 'Crazy Christians' wall of fame. Congratulations.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1367154

Wow! Now you are starting to act like Satan. Look at what Alan Watts says in his book, Myth and Ritual in Christianity, about the way that real devils really act. Of course, you really aren't quite clever enough for this, yet. But keep practicing:

The true Satanist must always have the outward aspect of an angel of light, and will never, under any circumstances, resort to the cruder, violent types of evil. He must be so clever that only an expert in holiness can discern him, for in  this way he may far more effectively mislead the sons of men and please his infernal Master, whose supreme craft lies in Deception, and subtle confusion of the truth.

Alan Watts, himself, was only a novice in Deception (as he calls it). Rather, he was one of the more out-in-the open deceptionists.

Keep on practicing. Soon you will be able to join the Church, just to make money, and destroy it from the inside.

We're all praying that you wake up and come to salvation, of course.

And we are back to mythological nonsense.  

You carry your mythological nonsense with you wherever you go... that God doesn't exist.

(Btw, you didn't place a question mark at the end of your question.)

Your world view is really warped.  Satan? Satanist?  Denying that God exists?

I am speechless.  What is next, warlocks and witches?

I did not know that some Christians can be so demented.

Dude, I don't even know what you are talking about when you say "God" or "Satan". 
Those are mythological terms used by primitive people to describe unknowns in this world.
 
Are you this ignorant that you need ancient mythology to make sense of this world?

Truly unbelievable.

BTW, I don't believe any of the characters from your Bible exist in real life. 
It is all fiction, Gods, Satans, unicorns, and dragons included.

[DaftAjax]

<....>

Your world view is really warped.  Satan? Satanist?  Denying that God exists?

I am speechless.  What is next, warlocks and witches?

I did not know that some Christians can be so demented.

Dude, I don't even know what you are talking about when you say "God" or "Satan". 
Those are mythological terms used by primitive people to describe unknowns in this world.
 
Are you this ignorant that you need ancient mythology to make sense of this world?

Truly unbelievable.

BTW, I don't believe any of the characters from your Bible exist in real life. 
It is all fiction, Gods, Satans, unicorns, and dragons included.

Well, I guess my theory has been proven. BADecker, it's definitely "your" words, not "His".

Well, my friend af_newbie, it turns out that if you don't agree, or should I say, you're not aligned by their religion, you'll be branded as "anti-Christ". And if you talk against them you're considered as the "devil"--"satan" even.

On that note, who are you (BADecker) to judge? People are entitled to their own opinion, but then again most of what he said was facts actually.

[BADecker]

<....>

Your world view is really warped.  Satan? Satanist?  Denying that God exists?

I am speechless.  What is next, warlocks and witches?

I did not know that some Christians can be so demented.

Dude, I don't even know what you are talking about when you say "God" or "Satan". 
Those are mythological terms used by primitive people to describe unknowns in this world.
 
Are you this ignorant that you need ancient mythology to make sense of this world?

Truly unbelievable.

BTW, I don't believe any of the characters from your Bible exist in real life. 
It is all fiction, Gods, Satans, unicorns, and dragons included.

Well, I guess my theory has been proven. BADecker, it's definitely "your" words, not "His".

Well, my friend af_newbie, it turns out that if you don't agree, or should I say, you're not aligned by their religion, you'll be branded as "anti-Christ". And if you talk against them you're considered as the "devil"--"satan" even.

On that note, who are you (BADecker) to judge? People are entitled to their own opinion, but then again most of what he said was facts actually.

It's probably your hunt-and-peck typing ability that makes it so you can't express yourself very well through what you post.