LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system

[Nelkel007]

Just learnt something new now, indeed this is a great piece though it's too lengthy to go through. Less you are an enthusiast like me.😊 Well I suggest this should be made public like pinned per say. It's very useful. Most people on this forum barely know this.
Thank you

[Indymoney]

Please check I just translated this into our local board Pakistan in Urdu hopefully this will help many newbies for correct use of trust system.

لوائس وی نئے ممبران کو ٹرسٹ سسٹم کے درست استعمال کے لئے رہنمائی کرتے ہیں

[LoyceV]

Please check I just translated this into our local board Pakistan in Urdu

Added!

[BITCOIN4X]

@LoyceV, I've put a few names on my list of trust so far since the last few months. I don't expect these people to include me on their list of trust too. Now, I am wondering am I guilty if including all the current DT1 names I trust in my list of trust ?

[LoyceV]

I am wondering am I guilty if including all the current DT1 names I trust in my list of trust ?

Do you trust the users, or do you trust their judgement on others? See this part:

Don't confuse your Trust list with feedback
Trust feedback: leave feedback to people you trust or don't trust. Or leave neutral comments.
Trust list: a list of people who's judgement on others you trust (username) or don't trust (~username).

[btcb3g1nn3r]

Positive (shown as +1)

• If you made a small deal with someone, that doesn't deserve positive feedback.
• If you made a deal in which you risked a substantial amount of money with someone, and all went well, that deserves positive feedback.
• If someone is a nice guy (or girl), that doesn't deserve positive feedback.
• If you believe someone can be trusted, even when you didn't trade with him, that too deserves positive feedback.

Negative (shown as -1)

• If you believe someone is a scammer, or someone is likely to scam, that deserves negative feedback. Please provide evidence.
• If you really hate someone and he's a terrible troll, that does not deserve negative feedback.

Help me improve this topic, if anything is unclear or missing: please post it

underlined words should not be reversed?

[LoyceV]

underlined words should not be reversed?

No. If someone is nice, that doesn't mean you can trust him. And if you don't like someone's posts, that doesn't mean he would scam you.

[btcb3g1nn3r]

"...that doesn't mean he/she deserves..." you might consider an update to be crystal clear for anyone

[Oshosondy]

I know how I can add people to my trust list, also I know little about DT1 and DT2 but I find it difficult to check people that had me to their trust list.

How can I know people that add me to their trust list?
I also read on a thread that theymos determines if someone become DT1, how is that true?

[LoyceV]

How can I know people that add me to their trust list?

See LoyceV's Trust list viewer.

I also read on a thread that theymos determines if someone become DT1, how is that true?

See DefaultTrust changes.

[Muenalo]

Wow.. this is indeed a brilliant article, at least with this now, I have been able to understand how the trust system really works, and when and how to use it. Thanks

[rosenbauer02]

So what does trust really cover?

When it comes to user account others are taking advantage to use the trust system to flag them. My idea was trust feedbacks are given to those who are probable scammer and fraud people and not to those users that are violating forum rules.

Please enlighten me on how could trust feedbacks be use.

Does only trust feedbacks solely use when funds are at stake or to any scenario like when you do not like the user the way he acted and then give him a trust feedback?

[LoyceV]

I have been able to understand how the trust system really works, and when and how to use it.

Great! Now start using it

Please enlighten me on how could trust feedbacks be use.

Does only trust feedbacks solely use when funds are at stake or to any scenario like when you do not like the user the way he acted and then give him a trust feedback?

If only you would have read my post, you wouldn't have to ask this.

[Timelord2067]

Do's and Don'ts

• Don't add users to your Trust list because they've added you!
• Don't exclude users from your Trust list based on retaliation. It's okay to trust someone's judgement, even when he doesn't trust yours.
• Don't add someone to your Trust list because you had a trade with them. Even if you trust them with money, that doesn't mean you should trust their judgement on others. I think this is the most common mistake made on Trust lists!
• It's okay to include your alt-account on your own Trust list. This means you trust the feedback you left from that account. Example:
  

  hilariousandco Trusts these users' judgement:
  7. hilariousetc (Trust: +3 / =1 / -0) (1725 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

• Don't include your main account from your alt account(s). This could influence DT1-voting, and although that's not part of this guide, it's bad.

I've highlighted in blue the portion I want to canvas in this post.  We're up to week 135.  In week 75 (60 weeks ago i.e. just fractionally more than one years ago) user krogoth created their DT list:

Trust list for: krogoth (Trust: awaiting update) (13 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2020-06-20_Sat_05.04h)
Back to index

krogoth Trusts these users' judgement:
1. NEW krogothmanhattan (Trust: +70 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (15) 1508 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. NEW Ramelius (Trust: +12 / =0 / -0) (25 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

krogoth Distrusts these users' judgement:
-

krogoth's judgement is Trusted by:
1. NEW krogothmanhattan (Trust: +70 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (15) 1508 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

~krogoth's judgement is Distrusted by:
-

Trust list: backscratchers: users agree, they trust or distrust each other.
Trust list: backstabbers: users disagree, one user trust the other, while the other distrust him.

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.
Get your own Trust list in BBCode at loyce.club/trust.

In week 135, their DT trust list looks like this:

Trust list for: krogoth (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (76 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2021-08-14_Sat_06.20h)
Back to index

krogoth Trusts these users' judgement:
1. monkeynuts (Trust: +31 / =1 / -0) (258 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. greenplastic (Trust: +48 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (5) 136 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. krogothmanhattan (Trust: +75 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (14) 1793 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. Ramelius (Trust: +14 / =0 / -0) (26 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

krogoth Distrusts these users' judgement:
-

krogoth's judgement is Trusted by:
1. krogothmanhattan (Trust: +75 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (14) 1793 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. iBitcoinHongKong8 (Trust: +9 / =0 / -0) (169 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

~krogoth's judgement is Distrusted by:
1. yogg (Trust: +29 / =0 / -0) (1846 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Trust list: backscratchers: users agree, they trust or distrust each other.
Trust list: backstabbers: users disagree, one user trust the other, while the other distrust him.

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.
Get your own Trust list in BBCode at loyce.club/trust.

krogothmanhattan is the main alt of krogoth - krogoth was created Date Registered:    2013-12-06, 08:39:23 while krogothmanhattan was Date Registered:    2017-05-11, 23:39:37

From krogothmanhattan's DT trust list, we see the following:

Week 135:

Trust list for: krogothmanhattan (Trust: +75 / =1 / -0) (DT1! (14) 1793 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2021-08-14_Sat_06.20h)
Back to index

krogothmanhattan Trusts these users' judgement:

3. monkeynuts (Trust: +31 / =1 / -0) (258 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

6. greenplastic (Trust: +48 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (5) 136 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. krogoth (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (76 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

13. Ramelius (Trust: +14 / =0 / -0) (26 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

So I guess my question concerns krogothmanhattan (DT1) voting up their main account krogoth (DT2) (or the other way around depending on which you see as the main account)

krogothmanhattan

2019-12-05

This is krogothmanhattan's second account used only when logging in from an unsecure connection. Please reach out to krogothmanhattan for more information.

(yes, that's positive default trust feedback)

AND

a second question, if I may... How is it neither Ramelius, greenplastic nore monkeynuts picked up that two alts are bumping up their DT ranking?

[LoyceV]

So I guess my question concerns krogothmanhattan (DT1) voting up their main account krogoth (DT2) (or the other way around depending on which you see as the main account)

I noticed that before. The Collectibles board has always had their own view on the Trust system, where several DT-members give positive feedback to Newbies who used an escrow or paid first. In a way some escrows are selling positive feedback by giving just for using their service. In my opinion, and I think most users agree, that doesn't deserve positive feedback, because it doesn't mean they'd also pay when given the chance to scam someone (which is what positive feedback is all about).
So yes, I consider it incorrect use of the Trust system. But since it barely happens those users turn into scammers, I don't think it's much of a practical problem, and I certainly don't want to fight the entire Collectibles board over this.
Also: krogothmanhattan doesn't need his alt's vote to reach DT1. If that would be the case, you could ask theymos to blacklist the sockpuppets from DT1-voting.
The Collectibles board is the easiest place to farm trust.

(yes, that's positive default trust feedback)

I noticed that too. Let's say I wouldn't do it, and if a less trusted user would do it, he might get tagged for Trust abuse.

a second question, if I may... How is it neither Ramelius, greenplastic nore monkeynuts picked up that two alts are bumping up their DT ranking?

It's the Collectibles board. I think many users there would argue that's the correct use of the Trust system.

User thiago007 got even 2 green DT-feedbacks from the same person (krogothmanhattan and krogoth). Many of the green feedbacks don't even get a Reference tag.

To be clear, I don't think this is correct use of the Trust system:

minerjones   2020-08-09      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
Hookzup1   2020-08-09      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
sunnybwoy   2020-08-02      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
heisty   2020-08-01      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
dustintrammell   2020-07-29      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
SatsLife   2020-07-28      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
chronicsky   2020-07-28      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
Verndog   2020-07-28      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
haloxon   2020-07-28      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
Liquidoptions   2020-07-28      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
geophphreigh   2020-07-28      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
BitcoinOrDeath   2020-07-28      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
selassiesoildier   2020-07-28      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
dozerz   2020-07-28      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
Cueneyt1986   2020-07-28      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
Agrawas   2020-07-28      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks
owlcatz   2020-07-28      Participated in auction...paid promptly...smooth as silk...thanks

[Timelord2067]

a second question, if I may... How is it neither Ramelius, greenplastic nore monkeynuts picked up that two alts are bumping up their DT ranking?

It's the Collectibles board. I think many users there would argue that's the correct use of the Trust system.

User thiago007 got even 2 green DT-feedbacks from the same person (krogothmanhattan and krogoth). Many of the green feedbacks don't even get a Reference tag.

I looked further and some of the ones who have received positive trust feedback via (krogothmanhattan and krogoth) would have lower BPIP scores had they only received ten points as opposed to 20 points for their trust feedback scores.

I hadn't suggested there was "scamming" going on.  However, the scope of "buying" trust feedback isn't constrained to just the collectables market e.g. escrow, lending, currency exchange for (low value = pennies) transactions.

*edit* corrected something in this post...

[LoyceV]

I hadn't suggested there was "scamming" going on.  However, the scope of "buying" trust feedback isn't constrained to just the collectables market e.g. escrow, lending, currency exchange for (low value = pennies) transactions.

All true, but what can we do? It's almost 2 years ago I wrote this:

I still see users, including high ranking accounts, who use the Trust system incorrectly.

All that's left is excluding users who's feedback we deem unworthy.

[owlcatz]

I hadn't suggested there was "scamming" going on.  However, the scope of "buying" trust feedback isn't constrained to just the collectables market e.g. escrow, lending, currency exchange for (low value = pennies) transactions.

All true, but what can we do? It's almost 2 years ago I wrote this:

I still see users, including high ranking accounts, who use the Trust system incorrectly.

All that's left is excluding users who's feedback we deem unworthy.

I once attempted to get a lot of collectibles' users to rethink how they were using it, but too many are stubborn, lazy or still don't understand it - I personally took flack from some of them for my trust list adjustments "Oh wow, you don't trust me anymore"? kinda silliness - Then when I explained why, they still felt like I'd dealt them a blow or something, because apparently being DT1 or DT2 makes people feel important (or something)?..   

[Timelord2067]

All that's left is excluding users who's feedback we deem unworthy.

That might even seem like a noble venture if indeed those dishing out such "justice" had already attempted to reach out to those they deem "unworthy" to work collaboratively with said person towards a mutual understanding.  Otherwise, slapping others with negatives from on high can be construed as being unwarranted, or indeed bullying.

Plain and simple.

[LoyceV]

Otherwise, slapping others with negatives from on high can be construed as being unwarranted, or indeed bullying.

I'm talking about excluding them from your trust list, not about leaving negative feedback. I thought we'd been over the differences often enough by now.
Let me put it this way:
Trust list exclusion: decentralized voting.
Negative feedback: public shaming.