Resolved: BayAreaCoins thinks I owe him money

[RHavar]

Context:

* BayAreaCoins makes the accusation that I misrepresent both bustabit and bustadice sites as offering a provably fair system for investors.  link

* I strongly deny this, doubly so because bustabit offers zero investor protection (it's literally: 100%-trust-daniel), so it would be blindly obvious if I tried to pretend otherwise and furthermore, I have absolutely zero motivation to lie (considering I have no role in bustabit other than an unpaid chat mod). I offer him a bitcoin if he can substantiate his accusations link

* BayAreaCoins posts what he believes substantiate his claim link and now believes I owe him money.

---

I think it's absurd as I don't believe he's found anything remotely like what he accused me of and intentionally conflates bustadice guarantees with bustabit, so he can try make it seem like I misrepresented things. Furthermore, I think he's engaged in childish trust abuse by giving me neutral-feedback regarding language on bustadice website (which as he knows, I have no stake/ownership in and just act as an auditor of game results). He is currently threatening negative feedback unless I pay him a bitcoin, something I think is not nearly merited.


So I'll leave it to bitcointalk, who is right?

@BayAreaCoins please feel free to add anything here, although I've tried to make the summary as objective as possible.


--

Edit 1: I have removed the negative feedback i left on his profile to try de-escalate the situation a little  

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[suchmoon]

BAC is a known troll. It can't be your first run-in with him, can it?

He's had these spats with other reputable members. He attacked dooglus a few years ago but seems to have patched that up since then. Let him cool off and figure out on his own that he can't shake you down.

[RHavar]

Yeah, in hindsight I should've just ignored him. I thought if I  offered him incentive to go through my post history, he'd realize he was mistaken or misremember or something. Instead I've just given him a lot of reasons to think he was right about something he clearly isn't.

Well hopefully this thread will help him see it's hard to find people who can agree with his point of view, and maybe he wasn't right ><

[The Sceptical Chymist]

BAC is a known troll. It can't be your first run-in with him, can it?

Are you thinking of TheButterZone?  I recall BAC being an upstanding member of the community, though I haven't seen him around lately, nor TBZ for that matter.  I only ask that because for some reason I get the two confused and figure other members might as well.  I'm not trying to insult your recall, which is probably much better than mine.

OP, at least the feedback he left was neutral, so it doesn't affect your trust score in any way--but I totally understand your frustration.  BAC used to be on DT.  Is that still the case?  I honestly have no idea who's on DT1/2 anymore and don't even remember how to check.

[suchmoon]

BAC is a known troll. It can't be your first run-in with him, can it?

Are you thinking of TheButterZone?  I recall BAC being an upstanding member of the community, though I haven't seen him around lately, nor TBZ for that matter.  I only ask that because for some reason I get the two confused and figure other members might as well.  I'm not trying to insult your recall, which is probably much better than mine.

No, I mean BayAreaCoins. I've seen a few of his contrived disputes - with dooglus as I mentioned, someone else whose name now escapes me, now RHavar - so I can't really describe it other than trolling. Here is a classic BAC shapeshift maneuver, and he still thinks he's right (emphasis mine):

talking about bustadice in the bustabit thread.

I believe I have seen you make the claim that both sites are "provably fair" for investors IF you trust you "two". 

You're misusing the word and giving investors a false sense of security by doing so.  Stop.

This isn't the first time you and I have spoken about this. (99% sure we spoke about it in this thread in fact)

I've seen you make the claim that both sites are "provably fair" for investors IF you trust you "two". 

You're misusing the word and giving investors a false sense of security by doing so.  Stop.

lol, easy on the trigger there. I'll give you a bitcoin if you can remotely substantiate that. I've never said, or implied such a thing. I just checked the bustabit webpage and FAQ, and there's no claims like that either. Not to mention, bustabit doesn't even have an auditor system like bustadice does.

quoted, give me a minute

[ some stuff about bustadice, some stuff not said by RHavar, etc ]

I believe I have "remotely" shown that you have claimed that BustaDice and/or BustaBit is provably-fair for investors when it is in fact not (see "Edit #4).

OP, at least the feedback he left was neutral, so it doesn't affect your trust score in any way--but I totally understand your frustration.  BAC used to be on DT.  Is that still the case?  I honestly have no idea who's on DT1/2 anymore and don't even remember how to check.

He's not on DT:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=389331;dt

[BayAreaCoins]

Context:

* BayAreaCoins makes the accusation that I misrepresent both bustabit and bustadice sites as offering a provably fair system for investors.  link

* I strongly deny this, doubly so because bustabit offers zero investor protection (it's literally: 100%-trust-daniel), so it would be blindly obvious if I tried to pretend otherwise and furthermore, I have absolutely zero motivation to lie (considering I have no role in bustabit other than an unpaid chat mod). I offer him a bitcoin if he can substantiate his accusations link

* BayAreaCoins posts what he believes substantiate his claim link and now believes I owe him money.

---

I think it's absurd as I don't believe he's found anything remotely like what he accused me of and intentionally conflates bustadice guarantees with bustabit, so he can try make it seem like I misrepresented things. Furthermore, I think he's engaged in childish trust abuse by giving me neutral-feedback regarding language on bustadice website (which as he knows, I have no stake/ownership in and just act as an auditor of game results). He is currently threatening negative feedback unless I pay him a bitcoin, something I think is not nearly merited.


So I'll leave it to bitcointalk, who is right?

@BayAreaCoins please feel free to add anything here, although I've tried to make the summary as objective as possible.


--

Edit 1: I have removed the negative feedback i left on his profile to try de-escalate the situation a little  

I'm just waking up.  This post is intended to quote Mr. Ryan.  There will be two three more posts following this one.

[BayAreaCoins]

BAC is a known troll.

This is new news to me.  I've always considered myself a hardworking dedicated honest businessman.

(which as he knows, I have no stake/ownership in and just act as an auditor of game results)

Again, stop saying what I do and do not know.  I absolutely do not know that you don't own BustaDice as I indicated in this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2219681.msg52815404#msg52815404

That's strange because you sound like an owner here:

Ryan and I are proud to announce bustadice, a new take on classic dice.

Also talking about you two deciding what Datacenter to use specifically for BustaDice:

No, I mean BayAreaCoins. I've seen a few of his contrived disputes - with dooglus as I mentioned, someone else whose name now escapes me,

I imagine you're thinking of MPREP:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3147489.msg32479252#msg32479252

You could also be talking about me exposing a major flaw in Blockchain.com's new exchange called "The Pit" that has "military-grade" security: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/djpg2m/bug_bounty_scam_blockchaincom_hackeronecom_didnt/

I don't know how much you know about me... so you could be referencing my lawsuit that I settled a few weeks ago too:  https://caseinfo.arcourts.gov/cconnect/PROD/public/ck_public_qry_doct.cp_dktrpt_frames?backto=P&case_id=32CV-18-163&begin_date=&end_date= which resulted in: https://www.kait8.com/2019/05/17/police-couples-spending-spree-has-them-facing-charges/

I suppose you could talk about me pressing Poloniex in the shadows until we literally got them kicked the FUCK out of the United States as well: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=420836.msg52804694#msg52804694 & https://www.coindesk.com/margin-lenders-lost-13-5-million-in-may-to-poloniex-crypto-crash (Background: I own Clamcoin.org and FreeBitcoins.com.  The creator of CLAM, Xploited, is a partner & works for FreeBitcoins.com.  I get a pretty good look at the inside of the market.)

Yeah, in hindsight I should've just ignored him.

That probably would have been a really good idea.  

I recall BAC being an upstanding member of the community, though I haven't seen him around lately

I've been working like a slave with Xploited attempting to our FreeBitcoins.com/xchange complete (the site is NOT live, please do NOT deposit).  I haven't had time to "troll" lately. (I'm not a troll)

I have a long history of selling items and being an honest trader here on Bitcointalk... anyone is welcome to review my Trust.  

I primarily sell my personal guns, metals & other cool "collectible" items (like crooked Silk Road DTF agents business cards).  (Google BayAreaCoins and look at the imagines [ignore the guy with sparklers in his ass, we were minting "buttcoins"] or look at my Steemit post from a while ago)

He's not on DT:

Who cares?  DT doesn't come with cookies or punch.

I don't need to be on default trust to honor my word, complete my sales, finish off transactions or be to a stand-up guy.  

I honestly don't know if I've every been on DT... nor do I care.  DT doesn't represent right and wrong.

Let him cool off and figure out on his own that he can't shake you down.

Let me be PERFECTLY CLEAR... I am not shaking down RHavar or anyone (primarily poor ole Blockchain.com  ).  

These folks are the ones that offered cryptocurrency in return for this or that.  I bring this or that to the table and they don't want to pay.  

@BayAreaCoins please feel free to add anything here

Sure!  Let me wake up a little bit, take a shower, grab something to eat and after that I'll be more than happy to make a detailed post here if I still need to.

Nice negative feedback, you clearly thought that one out eh?

So I'll call your bluff and raise you negative.

 Looks like you lost that hand.  

Edit 1: I have removed the negative feedback i left on his profile to try de-escalate the situation a little  

Cute, you're starting to type edits like mine!  

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. To imitate someone is to pay the person a genuine compliment — often an unintended compliment."

Anyways, give me a few hours and I shall return to present my case to Bitcointalk!  I will even forward this thread to Dooglus and a few other people.

Here are two important links for people who wish to research on their own while they wait for me to wake up:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2219681.msg52814059#msg52814059

&

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2897545.msg52814057#msg52814057

There is a right way and a wrong way to handle this.  You started going down the right way and you ended horribly wrong.

[BayAreaCoins]

Also, I would like to make a pledge that I will be donating 100% "this" to Arkansas Children's Hospital.  As I've done this fairly frequently in the past.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1121918.msg11874713#msg11874713

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147.msg12194471#msg12194471

Ryan, you don't know this, but last night I was extremely busy assisting a family properly go after a guy for touching their little kid.  
(All this trash & nonsense aside please pray or hope or meditate or whatever you do that the Police are able to nab this mother fucker on Monday   )

The last thing I needed was your bullshit.  You should have just said "Your right, we'll fix it, thank you" and left it at that.  

Honestly, though you may have saved me from a murder charge because I was lining my trunk with plastic when you started doing your thing.  I sincerely kind of thank you.

My talents are better used for protecting children rather than dealing with your misleading bullshit.

Just in case you think I'm some monster troll that would fucking lie about something like that:



Private message from this morning:
 
Title: "1 btc bet"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5194451.new#new


Feel free to comment if you feel I have done a bad job summarizing or want to clarify things

I don't know why you are private messaging me.

Don't worry.  You have my undivided attention.

Anyways, I'll be back to make my "real" post in a bit.

[suchmoon]

There will be two three more posts following this one.

Making multiple posts in a row is against the rules. Edit your post to add more info to it.

~

Most of that doesn't seem to relate to this thread. Do you at least agree that this is the statement that RHavar challenged you to substantiate:

I've seen you make the claim that both sites are "provably fair" for investors IF you trust you "two".  

You're misusing the word and giving investors a false sense of security by doing so.  Stop.

[BayAreaCoins]

Making multiple posts in a row is against the rules. Edit your post to add more info to it.

Report me then.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L397TWLwrUU

Fucking tattle-tale.  You're the one here getting your post count up for the signature campaign in your signature.  This is none of your business & doesn't have anything to do with you does it?

SuchMoon since your here, are you saying that Ryan didn't claim BustaDice was provably-fair to investors?  I know you don't know what provably-fair actually is, but you should be able to answer the question regardless.

Do you at least agree that this is the statement that RHavar challenged you to substantiate:

I've seen you make the claim that both sites are "provably fair" for investors IF you trust you "two".  

You're misusing the word and giving investors a false sense of security by doing so.  Stop.

Thus far it seems to be a BustaDice problem exclusively. However, it's still a major problem and an untrue statement made by Ryan.  

I was trying to think back years and years within just a few minutes... I might have been mistake about BustaBit, but I'm still researching.  I am not mistaken about Ryans claims that BustaDice is provably-fair for investors... I'm sure of that now.

I'll give you a bitcoin if you can remotely substantiate that.

I only had to "remotely" prove that he claimed investing was provably-fair to win the "bet" and here you go: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2219681.msg50191132#msg50191132

Anyways I'll be back with my real post this evening if I still need to.

[Compr]

Seems the only thing he can cling onto is the google search result showing bustadice claims provable fairness for investors.
You didn't claim anywhere it's provably fair for investors, and this thread stands to prove that as it'd be quite contradictory if it comes up you do
BayAreaCoins arguments are completely irrelevant as

• You don't own Bustadice
• Daniel could claim that but it's on him, not you
• This should be pertaining to bustabit only, which also you don't have involvement with

[DarkStar_]

I only had to "remotely" prove that he claimed investing was provably-fair to win the "bet" and here you go: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2219681.msg50191132#msg50191132

That link refers to the bustadice system. RHavar was talking about the bustabit system, in the bustabit thread. His post offering 1 BTC has no mention about bustadice, and your post that he quoted claims that both bustabit and bustadice are claimed to be provably fair for investors. You've proved the bustadice side, but I haven't seen anything about the bustabit side.

I've seen you make the claim that both sites are "provably fair" for investors IF you trust you "two".  

You're misusing the word and giving investors a false sense of security by doing so.  Stop.

lol, easy on the trigger there. I'll give you a bitcoin if you can remotely substantiate that. I've never said, or implied such a thing. I just checked the bustabit webpage and FAQ, and there's no claims like that either. Not to mention, bustabit doesn't even have an auditor system like bustadice does.

(emphasis mine)

[BayAreaCoins]

I only had to "remotely" prove that he claimed investing was provably-fair to win the "bet" and here you go: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2219681.msg50191132#msg50191132

That link refers to the bustadice system. RHavar was talking about the bustabit system, in the bustabit thread. His post offering 1 BTC has no mention about bustadice, and your post that he quoted claims that both bustabit and bustadice are claimed to be provably fair for investors. You've proved the bustadice side, but I haven't seen anything about the bustabit side.

I've seen you make the claim that both sites are "provably fair" for investors IF you trust you "two".  

You're misusing the word and giving investors a false sense of security by doing so.  Stop.

lol, easy on the trigger there. I'll give you a bitcoin if you can remotely substantiate that. I've never said, or implied such a thing. I just checked the bustabit webpage and FAQ, and there's no claims like that either. Not to mention, bustabit doesn't even have an auditor system like bustadice does.

(emphasis mine)

Remotely: "in the slightest degree"

Thus far I believe I have remotely proven that Ryan has claimed 50% of the sites in my original claim are stating they are provably-fair to investors.  Being 50% right if far more than being remotely right IMO.

Still researching...

You've proved the bustadice side

Thanks.  I also appreciate the merit points you left me.

[LoyceMobile]

So I'll leave it to bitcointalk, who is right?

It feels like I've only read the surface of this, but my first impression is that this was blown out of proportion over semantics. Could it be you're both partially right?

I haven't read yet what made this such a hostile situation, but if the two of you can't just sort this out over a virtual beer, I'll share my opinion after reading more of it. But that's not going to be tonight.

[BayAreaCoins]

Could it be your both partially right?

This is absolutely the case.

I haven't read yet what made this such a hostile situation, but if the two of you can't just sort this out over a virtual beer, I'll share my opinion after reading more of it. But that's not going to be tonight.

Since it appears I'm at least 50% right so far, I'll accept 50% of Ryans's promise & donate it.

I still think 50% is far more than "remotely"... hell, .5 rounds up to 1 for a reason!

[suchmoon]

Remotely: "in the slightest degree"

Thus far I believe I have remotely proven that Ryan has claimed 50% of the sites in my original claim are stating they are provably-fair to investors.  Being 50% right if far more than being remotely right IMO.

Still researching...

You're 0% right. Here is the context for your claim:

talking about bustadice in the bustabit thread.

I believe I have seen you make the claim that both sites are "provably fair" for investors IF you trust you "two".  

You're misusing the word and giving investors a false sense of security by doing so.  Stop.

This isn't the first time you and I have spoken about this. (99% sure we spoke about it in this thread in fact)

You're literally replying to a quote that mentions two sites and you're saying that RHavar claimed both sites are "provably fair". It should be obvious to any sane person reading this that he wasn't offering a reward for you to "prove" something that was already discussed earlier in the thread (bustadice's "provably fair" claim) but rather to prove that both sites had been described as "provably fair" in some way (remotely).

You should admit that it's your misunderstanding and move on.

[BayAreaCoins]

Thanks for flat out ignoring my questions Suchmoon.  I answered yours.

I'm not wrong, but thanks for your input.

You're 0% right.

0% is a really small number, you're sure about that?  https://i.imgur.com/04g4cPI.png  

You should admit that it's your misunderstanding and move on.

This is the same advice I give to Ryan, but I also want to add that Ryan (or whoever) should fix their site to not say it is provably-fair for investors.

Giving investors a false sense of security in "provably-fair" is not OK if it's on 100% of the sites, 50% of the sites or even 1% of the sites.

Just fix it.

[suchmoon]

Thanks for flat out ignoring my questions Suchmoon.

I'm skipping over the ad hominems since the thread isn't about me.

0% is a really small number, you're sure about that?  https://i.imgur.com/04g4cPI.png  

It's a binary outcome. You either prove that RHavar claimed both sites are "provably fair" or not. What you're doing now is equivalent to saying that all of you are scammers, and since there are definitely some scammers on Bitcointalk then such claim is "some percentage right".

[BayAreaCoins]

What you're doing now is equivalent to me saying that all of you are scammers, and since there are definitely some scammers on Bitcointalk then I'm some "percentage right".

That's the worst analogy I've ever heard and clearly not relevant.

I see it more like... if I cut half my finger off, can I tell people I cut my finger off without being a liar?  Absolutely in my opinion.

[RHavar]

As almost your entire post is post is nonsense, I'll ignore most of it:

Also talking about you two deciding what Datacenter to use specifically for BustaDice

I run the audit server. Every single bet bustadice takes is sent to the audit server, and bustadice can't know the game outcome until the audit server replies with it's part of the server seed. As such latency is extremely important, and it is almost a necessity to host them physically close together (hence us discussing which datacenters/locations are suitable for both of us).

Anyways, give me a few hours and I shall return to present my case to Bitcointalk!  I will even forward this thread to Dooglus and a few other people.

Go ahead. In fact, if Dooglus agrees with you -- I'll send you the 1 BTC and another 9 to the (registered) charity of your choice =)