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Author Topic: bustabit – The original crash game  (Read 54152 times)
redsun114
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October 19, 2019, 01:48:12 PM
 #801

All business involve the risk but the crash games are more risker than ever. Anyone who comes to play the crash games should understand that it can make him big loss too.  However incipite of all the risk, I like to play bustabit  crash games as it has a lot of fun playing the game.
Finally its our money and we can spent/risk in what ever way we want.
Yeah and considering there is a house edge in this game it means you will profit no matter what, there is absolutely no way you will lose money investing into this casino, sure you can lose if you get in and someone wins big and you get out, but as long as you stay as long as required you will always make money for sure.

That is the trick, you have to wait and if you wait enough eventually you will make money however some people get too afraid and leave too early and they may end up with some loss but the logic here is to have house edge on your favor (which we do) and wait, sure there could be times when profit goes down but in general there is literally no technical way that we don't make a profit, maybe there will be a huge loss one day but wait it out and you will be in profit for sure.
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October 19, 2019, 02:53:26 PM
 #802

Yeah and considering there is a house edge in this game it means you will profit no matter what, there is absolutely no way you will lose money investing into this casino, sure you can lose if you get in and someone wins big and you get out, but as long as you stay as long as required you will always make money for sure.

That is the trick, you have to wait and if you wait enough eventually you will make money however some people get too afraid and leave too early and they may end up with some loss but the logic here is to have house edge on your favor (which we do) and wait, sure there could be times when profit goes down but in general there is literally no technical way that we don't make a profit, maybe there will be a huge loss one day but wait it out and you will be in profit for sure.

It's not guaranteed, a very rich gambler with a lucky streak can still wipe out the bankroll, even if it's unlikely at current max profit per bet to bankroll ratios. Or it may take very long time for the investors to recover their losses if for some reason the site loses popularity after a whale leaves with a lot of bitcoins. People who have offsite bankroll should be especially careful; 400 BTC left the offsite bankroll yesteday or so.
But as things stand, PredictableLegacy just lost 200 BTC.

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October 19, 2019, 05:26:29 PM
 #803

It seems to me that would be honest to gambling people to limit the maximum bet to 100,000 bits, if someone loses large sums it could ruin his life, I don’t think that the person can recover after a huge loss which is more than his wage which he can get for the whole life.
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October 19, 2019, 05:58:21 PM
 #804

It seems to me that would be honest to gambling people to limit the maximum bet to 100,000 bits, if someone loses large sums it could ruin his life, I don’t think that the person can recover after a huge loss which is more than his wage which he can get for the whole life.

Someone could have enough coins left over from older days that betting tens of bitcoins at a given time is not an issue for them, if they feel like betting good for them and for bustabit's investors.

And they could still lose a lot of money with a series of smaller bets — as many do.

https://www.bustabit.com/faq/gambling-addiction


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October 19, 2019, 10:37:46 PM
 #805

It seems to me that would be honest to gambling people to limit the maximum bet to 100,000 bits, if someone loses large sums it could ruin his life

It's a nice idea, but I think I could give you half a dozen reasons it wouldn't help (and might do the opposite). It'd be just as practical as if Smirnoff used a thinner neck in their vodka bottles, so that alcoholics can't pour as much as quickly.

But gambling addiction is a serious problem, although I'm not sure the solution. I toyed with the idea of creating a "charity casino" where people could play zero-edge games against a "donor" bankroll (where they have 0EV). That way people could get their fix of gambling without having to pay in expected value. (Basically the gambling equiv. of a "safe injection site" ) but I worry that it might end up just make people rationalize gambling that otherwise wouldn't have.

So the only thing I can see that I think is strictly beneficial is trying to make sure that casinos are consumer-friendly casinos as possible (i.e. fair, transparent, no manipulative/lockin bullshit like roll-over reqs etc.)


Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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October 20, 2019, 01:41:35 AM
Last edit: October 20, 2019, 11:04:37 AM by BayAreaCoins
Merited by DarkStar_ (5)
 #806

So the only thing I can see that I think is strictly beneficial is trying to make sure that casinos are consumer-friendly casinos as possible (i.e. fair, transparent, no manipulative/lockin bullshit like roll-over reqs etc.)





I think you are misleading investors that investing is Provably Fair is a bit manipulative.

These games are only Provably Fair proveable fair to players, these investing sites are currently not Provably Fair to investors. (besides maybe PF to you and devan, but it is definitely not PF to me if I invest.)

Investing is not Provably Fair by math.  Period.  Please consider changing this.

Because investing isn't provably fair





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October 20, 2019, 02:26:16 AM
Merited by JasonFC (1)
 #807

I think you are misleading investors that investing is Provably Fair is a bit manipulative.

These games are only Provably Fair proveable fair to players, these investing sites are currently not Provably Fair to investors. (besides maybe PF to you and devan, but it is definitely not PF to me if I invest.)

Investing is not Provably Fair by math.  Period.  Please consider changing this.

How is it misleading if it says right there in that Google snippet: "Assuming you trust the two [bustadice and auditor] not to collude".

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October 20, 2019, 02:34:58 AM
 #808

I think you are misleading investors that investing is Provably Fair is a bit manipulative.

These games are only Provably Fair proveable fair to players, these investing sites are currently not Provably Fair to investors. (besides maybe PF to you and devan, but it is definitely not PF to me if I invest.)

Investing is not Provably Fair by math.  Period.  Please consider changing this.

How is it misleading if it says right there in that Google snippet: "Assuming you trust the two [bustadice and auditor] not to collude".

Investors need to trust the owner. If you don't trust, you should not invest. Bustabit is an old gambling site and it's stats speaks of itself.
With the new rule of site getting commission only from the profit of investors, it would be a much better platform for users as well as investors.
The removal of dilution fee may change some earning statistics for long term users.


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BayAreaCoins
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October 20, 2019, 04:24:55 AM
Last edit: October 20, 2019, 11:11:34 AM by BayAreaCoins
 #809

How is it misleading if it says right there in that Google snippet: "Assuming you trust the two [bustadice and auditor] not to collude".

Do you understand what provably fair means?  It means you do not have to trust individuals & you can self verify cheats.  It isn't "provable" if it relies on individuals. It's probably-fair (maybe).

Here are several quotes from RHavar:

So personally I am reasonably convinced the game seeding was done fairly, but I'm not sure it's done well enough to say it's provably fair (maybe "probably fair" is more appropriate?)

That system is known as "provably fair" and contains absolutely everything you need to prove the game is fair. While i do admit it requires quite a bit of technical knowledge, it has the advantage that anyone can verify the game for everyone. So if you can find someone who understands how the maths primitives work, it should be easy to verify =)

You're kind of mixing up terminology here, but you're also on the wrong track. Provably fair means you can prove the game was fair. End of story. If you can't do that, then it's not provably fair.

In the sense that a normal bitcoin casino offers "provably fair" which means "it can cheat you, but you can detect if they do"  

So my strong advice for players would be to use a system they can verify themselves (i.e. provably fair)

Here is a quote from the Bustadice thread from Ryan tonight:

which states the caveat pretty explicitly. Although I actually agree with you in that provably-fair is the wrong term for it. I'd probably write the copy as "Assuming you trust the two not to collude, investors are given additional protections against cheating" or something of that sort


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October 20, 2019, 04:45:50 AM
 #810

@BayAreaCoins I think you're just confusing people by talking about bustadice in the bustabit thread. The investor guarantees and claims there are different than the ones here. For the sake of everyone's sanity, it's best to discuss bustadice in the bustadice thread, and bustabit in this thread.

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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October 20, 2019, 04:51:59 AM
 #811

@BayAreaCoins I think you're just confusing people

I think you're (or whoever) confusing people by grossly misusing the word "provably fair".

talking about bustadice in the bustabit thread.

I believe I have seen you make the claim that both sites are "provably fair" for investors IF you trust you "two".  

You're misusing the word and giving investors a false sense of security by doing so.  Stop.

This isn't the first time you and I have spoken about this. (99% sure we spoke about it in this thread in fact)

The investor guarantees and claims there are different than the ones here.

Are they?  How so?  Are you saying that either game is actually provably fair for investors?  

You're making guarantees to investors now?  

For the sake of everyone's sanity, it's best to discuss bustadice in the bustadice thread, and bustabit in this thread.

I think investors are traditionally pretty smart folks.  I'm sure they will manage.


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RHavar
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October 20, 2019, 04:58:20 AM
 #812

I've seen you make the claim that both sites are "provably fair" for investors IF you trust you "two".  

You're misusing the word and giving investors a false sense of security by doing so.  Stop.

lol, easy on the trigger there. I'll give you a bitcoin if you can remotely substantiate that. I've never said, or implied such a thing. I just checked the bustabit webpage and FAQ, and there's no claims like that either. Not to mention, bustabit doesn't even have an auditor system like bustadice does.

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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October 20, 2019, 04:59:55 AM
Last edit: October 20, 2019, 12:10:59 PM by BayAreaCoins
 #813

I've seen you make the claim that both sites are "provably fair" for investors IF you trust you "two".  

You're misusing the word and giving investors a false sense of security by doing so.  Stop.

lol, easy on the trigger there. I'll give you a bitcoin if you can remotely substantiate that. I've never said, or implied such a thing. I just checked the bustabit webpage and FAQ, and there's no claims like that either. Not to mention, bustabit doesn't even have an auditor system like bustadice does.

quoted, give me a minute Tongue

Edit #1:  You didn't type this?  

"Assuming you trust the two not to collude, investing becomes provably fair."

Edit #2:  I'm going to find the forum post as well.  Give me a few more minutes.  I have like 370 pages of past posts.

Edit #4:  You for sure typed this!  Thanks for that Bitcoin!  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2219681.msg50191132#msg50191132 I should have posted this one before #3.  (I went ahead and moved this one above #3)

Edit #3:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2219681.msg50260031#msg50260031

Edit #5" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2897545.msg45335901#msg45335901

Edit #6: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2219681.msg22396650#msg22396650

#6 Quoted:
  • Advanced provably fair system designed to protect not only the players, but also investors
...
Similar to how JustDice pioneered provably fair dice games, we hope that bustadice will considerably improve the situation for investors and set the standard for casino investing.

Enhanced provable fairness
bustadice builds upon conventional provably fair systems to provide additional guarantees to players, investors and the casino itself:
...
For investors: Neither I nor Ryan can undetectably cheat by predicting future rolls. Assuming you trust the two not to collude, investing becomes provably fair.

Edit #7:  https://i.imgur.com/P4STV89.png (picture from the homepage of Bustadice)

I'll give you a bitcoin if you can remotely substantiate that. I've never said, or implied such a thing.

I believe I have "remotely" shown that you have claimed that BustaDice and/or BustaBit is provably-fair for investors when it is in fact not (see "Edit #4).

I could have sworn that you said in a thread after this one that you'd offer .1 BTC if I could show a link with Daniel stating investing was provably-fair... I don't see it anymore, however, Edit #6 & #7 shows that.

It seems like you owe me BTC at this point.  My bitcoin address is: bc1qwupmf3gc6ql8thl3eqmkce6uuur4prj4schw55


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RHavar
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October 20, 2019, 05:06:43 AM
 #814

lol, easy on the trigger there. I'll give you a bitcoin if you can remotely substantiate that. I've never said, or implied such a thing. I just checked the bustabit webpage and FAQ, and there's no claims like that either. Not to mention, bustabit doesn't even have an auditor system like bustadice does.

quoted, give me a minute Tongue

Take your time. I promise I won't edit or delete any posts in the mean time  Wink


Quote
Edit #1:  You didn't type this?  

"Assuming you trust the two not to collude, investing becomes provably fair."

No. I didn't write that. Besides, that's for bustadice. We're talking about bustabit here, remember?


Edit #3:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2219681.msg50260031#msg50260031

I 100% standby everything I wrote there. It's factually correct, and not misleading in the slightest. If you think that supports your arguments that I misrepresented both ("bustabit" and "bustadice") as being provably fair for investor, you should probably close your computer and come back tomorrow and reread over this stuff with a clear head.

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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October 20, 2019, 05:17:52 AM
 #815

you should probably close your computer and come back tomorrow and reread over this stuff with a clear head.

You should just stop misusing the word "provably fair" and fix where y'alls website(s) claim it is provably fair for investors (bustabit or bustadice).

Maybe replace it to "probably fair" for investors?


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October 20, 2019, 05:24:06 AM
 #816

You should just stop misusing the word "provably fair"

I'm trying to be as diplomatic as possible, but you're making it hard. Bustabit has no special investor system, it's quite literally 100% trust-daniel-to-not-cheat. I am confident this has never been misrepresented at any time, especially not by me.


Bustadice on the other hand has better investor guarantees, especially so for me (as I act in the privileged position as auditor, which AFAICT gives me provably-fair level guarantees) and because of that I actually have invested more in bustadice than bustabit, despite worse expected returns (as I see it as less risky for me).

If you want to discuss the bustadice investor system, I suggest you do is do it in the bustadice thread as it's not relevant to here.

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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October 20, 2019, 05:38:01 AM
Last edit: October 20, 2019, 07:29:51 AM by BayAreaCoins
 #817

I'm trying to be as diplomatic as possible, but you're making it hard.

There isn't any diplomacy in misusing a word that inspires false confidence from investors.

Just say this:

Although I actually agree with you in that provably-fair is the wrong term for it.

Fix it, don't do it again and go on with life.  Simple.  

I'm not here to fight with you or cause any grief.  Just trying to maintain the integrity of the word "provably-fair".  I would hope you can respect that.

Edit: Maybe I was wrong about the claim in regards to BustaBit... the problem seems to be just on BustaDice... which is owned & operated by the same people regardless.  However, I will keep searching tomorrow.  I'm going to bed now and not cause you told me to! hehe It's all good Big Ry-dawg.


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October 20, 2019, 05:41:35 AM
 #818

Fix it, don't do it again and go on with life.  Simple.  

I'm not here to fight with you or cause any grief.

You are being disingenuous. I didn't write it. It's not my website. I don't have access to fix it. And it's not even related to bustabit, which is the entire reason I started off by saying you're confusing people by talking about it here instead of the appropriate thread.


Before I say something I regret, I'm just putting you on ignore. Have a good day. ><

Check out gamblingsitefinder.com for a decent list/rankings of crypto casinos. Note: I have no affiliation or interest in it, and don't even agree with all the rankings ... but it's the only uncorrupted review site I'm aware of.
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October 20, 2019, 05:45:13 AM
Last edit: October 20, 2019, 07:10:21 AM by BayAreaCoins
 #819

You are being disingenuous.

No, I am not. I sincerely mean everything I'm saying.

Before I say something I regret, I'm just putting you on ignore. Have a good day. ><

Good call.  Have a good night as well.  I wasn't trying to upset you, but really you should know the difference between provably-fair and probably-fair.

I'm going to bed too, but not cause you told me so!

Put some ice on that butthurt.


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October 20, 2019, 06:03:14 AM
Last edit: October 25, 2019, 02:00:19 AM by BayAreaCoins
 #820

Sheesh Ryan... what happened to going to bed before you say something you regret?

Before I say something I regret, I'm just putting you on ignore. Have a good day. ><

17 minutes later...

I'm sorry, but this is beyond stupid. I actually agree with you about the language on the site needing to be changed. But the fact that you know it's not even my site (i'm just acting as auditor) and in fact, it's never been my site (Daniel built it from the start) makes this extra stupid. So I'll call your bluff and raise you negative.



I'm childishly abusing the trust system?!  *looks Ryan up and down* *bursts out laughing* lol! OK  Shocked Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I left you & your associate neutral feedback in regard to something that you agree with:

Although I actually agree with you in that provably-fair is the wrong term for it.

and

I'm sorry, but this is beyond stupid. I actually agree with you about the language on the site needing to be changed.

and we had this talk back in March of this year too.

Read through everything... I still don't believe it is provably fair for investors, but it seems more like layering.

Layers help, but they don't make it mathematically fair for investors still.  I suppose it does make it fair for you though?

Yeah, you're right.

This is the second time I've had to call you or websites you're associated with out on misusing the term "provably-fair" in a fashion to give investors a false sense of security.  You bet your ass I left neutral feedback this time around.

I really don't think I'm abusing the trust system.  If anything, you are abusing the trust system, but I'm not mad at you.

Get some sleep, reconsider your feedback in the morning and send me that Bitcoin you owe me.   Roll Eyes

I left you neutral feedback for absurd negative feedback you left me and I will leave you negative feedback tomorrow if you don't send that Bitcoin you owe me for me "remotely" showing that you personally have said investing is proveable-fair on y'alls site (Negative feedback will be left after midnight October 21, 2019). Roll Eyes

Thanks, you probably should have just went to bed as you said.

Edit:  Ryan woke up and removed the negative feedback on his own prior to us using Dooglus as a third-party to settle the dispute in regards if Ryan owed me any BTC.

Double Edit: Dooglus ruled against me due to the fact I was unable to prove "both".  I've dropped my dispute.


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