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Author Topic: Is C°bra still Co-owner of http://bitcoin.org and http://bitcointalk.org ?  (Read 374 times)
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October 28, 2019, 12:39:52 PM
á#1

Is C°bra still Co-owner of http://bitcoin.org and http://bitcointalk.org ?

"I don't really engage the community that much anymore, people are just madly greedy nowadays, too much division and crypto "celebrities" playing the fame game, nobody has any chill or even a good sense of humour."
- https://twitter.com/CobraBitcoin/status/1184884477522305029

...

Perhaps they should come back and visit this thread ...

- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5149062.0

I mean, if your a true bitcoin person, some of that thread is funnier than parts of 4chan.

Cheesy  Wink

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October 28, 2019, 12:46:41 PM
á#2

To my best knowledge: Yes!

~forum's domain is controlled by me. Should theymos disappear, I really have no idea who to even consider as bitcointalk.org's legitimate leader (even more so if there's widespread disagreement on the topic).

If the treasurers and forum staff are interested, we can collectively sign a contract agreeing on some sort of process to agree on a person to lead the forum should theymos disappear, and pledge to obey and follow that persons instructions in order to avoid splits or multiple organizations/sites claiming to be the real BitcoinTalk. Is that a good idea?

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October 28, 2019, 01:58:23 PM
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á#3

Ye, for both domain, here are some details from theymos.

Bitcoin.org:
 - Cobra has ultimate control over the domain name. I have access to the domain name settings.
 - Cobra runs the server.
 - Will Binns holds the BTC.

Bitcointalk.org:
 - Cobra has ultimate control over the domain name. I have access to the domain name settings.
 - I run the server. Cobra has no access to the database or server.
 - The BTC is held by myself and the treasurers. Cobra has no access.

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October 28, 2019, 02:08:05 PM
á#4

Ye, for both domain, here are some details from theymos.
<snip>
How do you guys find these links so damn fast? 

I tend to forget that Theymos doesn't own the forum, even though he runs it.  Didn't he post something critical of the trust or merit systems a while back?  I just tried searching his name under members, as I was going to look at his post history but I don't even know how to get that greek letter character in his name to come out.  If I recall correctly, he did have some comments about the forum and did seem to still care about it, even though he's probably had enough of the crap that goes on here.

And hey, man.  Some of us have senses of humor, even if 99% of the members here might not ever show it because they're too busy writing generic shitposts.

Quote
<snip>people are just madly greedy nowadays, too much division and crypto "celebrities" playing the fame game, <snip>[/b]"
He shouldn't be surprised or upset about that, given that bitcoin is money.  It's going to attract greedy folks, and that isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as they're honest.  And as I don't pay attention to crypto politics, I don't know who's playing the fame game except for those claiming to be Satoshi and maybe one or two others.  They're easy enough to ignore.

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October 28, 2019, 02:13:12 PM
á#5

How do you guys find these links so damn fast? 

Think on a couple relevant keywords and google search. In this case, a search for cobra owns bitcointalk site:bitcointalk.org, in the first result - thread the 5th post already has this quote in it.
I don't know if @bL4nkcode did exactly this, but at least this is the path I'd go on.

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October 28, 2019, 02:26:22 PM
á#6

Think on a couple relevant keywords and google search. In this case, a search for cobra owns bitcointalk site:bitcointalk.org, in the first result - thread the 5th post already has this quote in it.
I don't know if @bL4nkcode did exactly this, but at least this is the path I'd go on.
Ye, something like that, I just use these keywords since I remember seeing that thread posted by theymos way back - cobra  co owner of bitcointalk.org theymos
Even its not in order as long those keywords are present I guess the thread will show.

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October 28, 2019, 04:05:24 PM
á#7

It seemed to me at certain points that more than one person was behind the Cobra Twitter account as its attitude wavered all over the place. Now it seems to be getting a bit mawkish and misty eyed.

This is by far my favourite comment from that thread.




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October 28, 2019, 04:34:14 PM
á#8

I tend to forget that Theymos doesn't own the forum, even though he runs it.  Didn't he post something critical of the trust or merit systems a while back?  I just tried searching his name under members, as I was going to look at his post history but I don't even know how to get that greek letter character in his name to come out.  If I recall correctly, he did have some comments about the forum and did seem to still care about it, even though he's probably had enough of the crap that goes on here.
That depends what you define as owning the forum though, surely? Theymos might not have control over the domain but he does have control over the servers, the data, and has access to all of the BTC (either directly or via multisig contracts which allow him to demand the private keys from the other parties). If bitcointalk.org got redirected to a different site, it would really be a relatively small issue - theymos could simply acquire another domain and that would become the new Bitcointalk.

Regardless, I don't think it particularly matters. I imagine if Cobra wanted to be rid of the domain that he would peacefully hand it over.

 
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October 28, 2019, 05:57:06 PM
á#9

Theymos might not have control over the domain but he does have control over the servers, the data, and has access to all of the BTC (either directly or via multisig contracts which allow him to demand the private keys from the other parties).
That's the most important part and theymos is on the safe side for this. Control over server and database will give him the extra advantage to face any kinda worse situation and forum users data will stay secure. 

If bitcointalk.org got redirected to a different site, it would really be a relatively small issue - theymos could simply acquire another domain and that would become the new Bitcointalk.
Yeah any unexpected situation could be handled by redirecting old forum domain to new one. Although its common nowadays but many forum users including me gonna miss old one.
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October 29, 2019, 04:56:51 AM
á#10

C°bra is just upset by the political games running on the forum, some of his precious comments here clearly states that. It is one of the main reason he is not that active here I guess.

A lot of prominent members in the Bitcoin community started out on bitcointalk.org, then migrated to Reddit, and subsequently migrated from Reddit to Twitter. Many of these became "thought leaders" on Twitter, and no longer are active on Reddit or bitcointalk.org. I don't think it's because of the format or feel of the forum, I think it's more of an ego thing.

I somewhat agree with him on it as many prominent members of Bitcointalk have already left because of the same reason.

BTW, C°bra is not a co-owner but the real owner of the forums domain and even the bitcoin.org official website domain.
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October 29, 2019, 07:11:31 PM
Merited by DiamondCardz (3), redsn0w (2), LoyceV (2), Vispilio (1), error08 (1)
á#11

Technically "the forum" is many things, not really a domain, or database, or collection of BTC. I would consider the forum to be an entity mostly defined through trust and legitimacy, not that different from a polity. For the most part that trust is placed in theymos, so he's generally seen as the one in charge of the forum.

I guess on a technical level, I do own the bitcointalk.org domain, but I'm not involved in the day to day operation of the forum. Owning the domain doesn't come with any advantages on the forum itself though. I can't really come on here and boss people around, probably the most egregious thing I could do would be to just redirect the site elsewhere. And as others have pointed out, a domain change is not that big of a deal in the long term (though short term it's a mess).

I never really hear any feedback on this arrangement from anyone though, the little feedback I have got so far suggests people appreciate that multiple parties have differing levels of control over the forum. The forum is not my top priority since I focus more on bitcoin.org, so if anyone has the feeling they would prefer theymos being fully responsible for bitcointalk.org, it would be good to at least hear that opinion expressed.
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October 29, 2019, 07:20:20 PM
á#12

so if anyone has the feeling they would prefer theymos being fully responsible for bitcointalk.org, it would be good to at least hear that opinion expressed.
Does it have to be one person who owns a domain name? I'm not familiair with what's "common" to do for big corporations for instance: could a domain name be owned by a foundation instead of a person? And if so, that brings the question who would get permission to access it within that foundation.



I think I've mentioned it before but I'll do it again: the current setup has worked for many years, and I have no reason to assume it will "break" any time soon. So I'm totally fine with leaving everything as it is now.
However, for the very long term, assuming Bitcoin and this forum will last, there should be either a permanent solution or at least an order of succession. A hundred years from now, none of us will be posting here, but it would be really cool if Bitcoin and this forum are still around, and someone takes care of it to ensure this very message is still available!

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October 29, 2019, 07:31:36 PM
á#13

Technically "the forum" is many things, not really a domain, or database, or collection of BTC. I would consider the forum to be an entity mostly defined through trust and legitimacy, not that different from a polity. For the most part that trust is placed in theymos, so he's generally seen as the one in charge of the forum.

Completely agree with you and with deep respect its the difference between bitcointalk and other forum. People loves to live here under the cover of trust and it should be.

The forum is not my top priority since I focus more on bitcoin.org, so if anyone has the feeling they would prefer theymos being fully responsible for bitcointalk.org, it would be good to at least hear that opinion expressed.
Anyone can think anything but most important thing is the development of bitcointalk and its community. It means a lot for them who are using bitcointalk as a platform of sharing, learning and earning too.

there should be either a permanent solution or at least an order of succession. A hundred years from now, none of us will be posting here, but it would be really cool if Bitcoin and this forum are still around, and someone takes care of it to ensure this very message is still available!
Yeah agree with you and undoubtedly permanent solution or something much reliable is a demand of time. If i am not wrong then this massive community deserve that.

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October 29, 2019, 08:18:30 PM
á#14

The forum is not my top priority since I focus more on bitcoin.org, so if anyone has the feeling they would prefer theymos being fully responsible for bitcointalk.org, it would be good to at least hear that opinion expressed.
I have no problem with the current arrangement. It is good that the bitcointalk.org domain is in another trusted actors hands. In the event that theymos vanished and the T19 multisig contingency arrangements were put into effect, we would still be able to continue on with the bitcointalk.org domain as that isn't in his possession. That would be a pretty good boon to the legitimacy of whatever new organization would be created.

 
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October 29, 2019, 09:22:32 PM
á#15

forum.
 I can't really come on here and boss people around, probably the most egregious thing I could do would be to just redirect the site elsewhere. And as others have pointed out, a domain change is not that big of a deal in the long term (though short term it's a mess).
Sounds like a great idea for an April fools joke on theymos. Why should he have all the fun Wink
Seriously though the current system is fine. I like that the forum still operates based on early loose partnerships and has grown from that. LoyceV has a good point though about succession when nature runs it's course, as I'm sure if it ever became available a  certain disgruntled alt coiner may toss some of his millions(which he's not afraid to shout about having) at attempting to purchase it for purely unbiased information disbursement.

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October 29, 2019, 09:23:28 PM
á#16

I never really hear any feedback on this arrangement from anyone though, the little feedback I have got so far suggests people appreciate that multiple parties have differing levels of control over the forum. The forum is not my top priority since I focus more on bitcoin.org, so if anyone has the feeling they would prefer theymos being fully responsible for bitcointalk.org, it would be good to at least hear that opinion expressed.
I consider Bitcointalk.org the identity of the forum nowadays. Its matured enough, and that is the name that will be known as. Yes, the forum has changed domains before, but this was in its infancy. In a semi relatable circumstance our (wales) national stadium recently had its name changed, however the general Welsh population still considers it to be the old name, and refuse to call it by its new which has undoubtedly caused confusion when tourists have asked where the principality stadium is, and the local people refer to it as the millennium stadium.

The point is the previous domain change was very much in the forums infancy, and didn't impact too many users. However, now that the forum has matured it would definitely be an annoyance. I for one like to mitigate any issues as much as possible, and would be looking to solutions to make sure that a domain change would be incredibly unlikely.

Currently, we have yourself who is in control of Bitcointalk.org, but god forbid if something happened to yourself, or in the hypothetical situation where you point the domain to something else other than the forum then it could be an issue. Approaching this unlikely issue with a multi signature sort of approach would be the best idea in my opinion. Having multiple trustworthy users which sign whenever an action is taken with the domain. Setting this up wouldn't be without its issues of course, but definitely something to take a look at.

This multi signature approach would also reduce the potential of a user disappearing, because the rest of the parties could still recover the domain.

I think I've mentioned it before but I'll do it again: the current setup has worked for many years, and I have no reason to assume it will "break" any time soon. So I'm totally fine with leaving everything as it is now.
However, for the very long term, assuming Bitcoin and this forum will last, there should be either a permanent solution or at least an order of succession. A hundred years from now, none of us will be posting here, but it would be really cool if Bitcoin and this forum are still around, and someone takes care of it to ensure this very message is still available!
If a order of succession was to be established who would be the deciding factor on selecting the successors? Order of succession would be a highly debatable topic I'm sure, and I'm not sure if theymos or a community vote would be the better choice here.


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October 29, 2019, 09:30:23 PM
á#17

I never really hear any feedback on this arrangement from anyone though, the little feedback I have got so far suggests people appreciate that multiple parties have differing levels of control over the forum. The forum is not my top priority since I focus more on bitcoin.org, so if anyone has the feeling they would prefer theymos being fully responsible for bitcointalk.org, it would be good to at least hear that opinion expressed.

I'll echo the sentiment that things are working well for the time being.  It seems like you and theymos have an amicable arrangement, and from what's been said in the past I don't see that changing any time soon.  Cheers, and thanks for weighing in on the subject.

However, for the very long term, assuming Bitcoin and this forum will last, there should be either a permanent solution or at least an order of succession.

You bring up a very valid point.  At some point it may behoove those involved to consider how to protect the forum and ensure it's availability for future generations.  I don't know how old theymos and C°bra are, or how often they go sky diving, or buy black-market vape products, but it's definitely worth having the discussion at some point.

The domain name, physical servers, and database could be transitioned into a trust, or a corporate structure with a board of directors.  If I'm not mistaken the Bitcointalk.org entity exists within the United States, another option could be a Limited Liability Partnership.  I'm no lawyer, so I don't know which of these business entities would best suit the longevity of the forum while keeping it's value in the hands of those who currently "own" it.

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October 30, 2019, 03:20:55 AM
Last edit: October 30, 2019, 04:07:57 AM by error08
á#18

To my best knowledge: Yes!

~forum's domain is controlled by me. Should theymos disappear, I really have no idea who to even consider as bitcointalk.org's legitimate leader (even more so if there's widespread disagreement on the topic).

If the treasurers and forum staff are interested, we can collectively sign a contract agreeing on some sort of process to agree on a person to lead the forum should theymos disappear, and pledge to obey and follow that persons instructions in order to avoid splits or multiple organizations/sites claiming to be the real BitcoinTalk. Is that a good idea?

Since theymos became the only head administrator left to maintain the forum to date, it's his right to lead the forum, if the treasurers and forum staff have to choose, I believe it will be that way.
But I do agree if there is a contract agreement between you C°bra and theymos, it feels like both of you are not close, better if you two be a friend or cooperation partner.

I never really hear any feedback on this arrangement from anyone though, the little feedback I have got so far suggests people appreciate that multiple parties have differing levels of control over the forum. The forum is not my top priority since I focus more on bitcoin.org, so if anyone has the feeling they would prefer theymos being fully responsible for bitcointalk.org, it would be good to at least hear that opinion expressed.

Theymos should respond to this.
yes, it's better to have different levels of control over the forum, I like the forum to run the way it is now.
I really appreciate you C°bra (Jeff Garzik) as a person who has invented the forum's name "bitcointalk", bought the domain and most importantly "trusted by Satoshi". Hence, you deserve to have the title a "forum's founder", side by side with Satoshi.
a question; are you the one who (have the right/created) this account ?? > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1

1. I don't know him personally. He was made a forum and server admin back in 2010 because he had proven himself trustworthy and was able to spend time working on it. Bitcoin.org and bitcointalk.org domains are owned by someone trusted by Satoshi, while theymos has management rights. I resigned from the management, because I'm not active in the community and don't want to be involved in the politics. I don't want to say too much about the debate, as I'm not that familiar with all that's going on.

and finally bitcointalk.org. Fun fact: The name "bitcointalk" was invented by Jeff Garzik, and he's the one who bought the domain.

 
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