Bitcoin Whales Are Selling BTC Before Market Crash: Peter Schiff

[deisik]

While bitcoin is getting harder and harder each day to manipulate by some large movers it still happens

From my perspective, things look a little bit different

We have recently seen a surge in volatility of Bitcoin prices, and that has a simple explanation as well as a straightforward implication and an obvious conclusion. The explanation is that these bouts of volatility are due to markets becoming thin (what can be seen by declining trading volumes)

Then, the implication is that with thin markets it takes less liquidity to move them in the desired direction, be it up or down, or even preventing such moves (as this is also a possibility and an option). All that leads us to a conclusion that Bitcoin is in fact getting easier to manipulate as trading volumes decline

Yeah agree that if the daily trading volume of bitcoin is less then it will need less money to manipulate the prices but the manipulation may not more profitable to the whales if no traders respond to that

Actually, that depends on a scale of the whale, so to speak

It can be said that whales come in all forms and sizes, but what's even more important here is the fact that the ability to manipulate prices in a meaningful (read, profitable) way trickles down to whales of a smaller caliber in thinner markets. In other words, people whom we would never consider whales under different circumstances now can move the price, i.e. behave in exactly the same way as we would expect a real whale to behave. The bottom line is that it still remains a matter of perspective (more specifically, of zooming in and discerning the smaller whales acting like the big ones)

[exstasie]

Seeing the rate now, I think there is an effort to crash the price. There are some predictions that it can even go down as low as $900.

Good. People were extremely bearish at $7,300 a few weeks ago too. It's always darkest before the dawn.

I think it is very revealing that the most vociferous opponents of bitcoin are exactly those people who have the most to lose if crypto is a success.

I don't think Schiff has much to lose if Bitcoin succeeds. Gold isn't going anywhere. If anything, he's piggybacking on Bitcoin's hype to increase his own relevance and enlarge his following. He annoys Bitcoin supporters but it's good business.

[suzanne5223]

Seeing the rate now, I think there is an effort to crash the price. There are some predictions that it can even go down as low as $900.

Ever since the beginning of this year, the bitcoin market has always shown the sign that the dump trend is yet to exit the market which is also the reason why the market is experiencing an expected dump in price anytime but the part of crashing low to $900 price range is something I don't believe will happen.

If this proves to be true, it's likely an effort to snag REALLY cheap coins in preparation for another cycle of boom. Some expect the price to hit as high as $100k upon halving. We'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime if you've held out this long, might as well hold on for a few more months and bet on the predicted rise upon halving.

The dump range is all false and the current price of the market is enough to accumulate cheap coin.

[Mometaskers]

Seeing the rate now, I think there is an effort to crash the price. There are some predictions that it can even go down as low as $900.

Ever since the beginning of this year, the bitcoin market has always shown the sign that the dump trend is yet to exit the market which is also the reason why the market is experiencing an expected dump in price anytime but the part of crashing low to $900 price range is something I don't believe will happen.

If this proves to be true, it's likely an effort to snag REALLY cheap coins in preparation for another cycle of boom. Some expect the price to hit as high as $100k upon halving. We'll just have to wait and see. In the meantime if you've held out this long, might as well hold on for a few more months and bet on the predicted rise upon halving.

The dump range is all false and the current price of the market is enough to accumulate cheap coin.

I know the price of $900 is ridiculous but again, I'm just going of the worst predictions I've read in btc news. The price currently is still cheap, yes. Would still have been better if people managed to buy before the price starts going up last May. I think 100k is also too optimistic.

[Kersh768]

Peter Schiff ruthlessly shatters the dreams of Bitcoin holders who hope that the top coin will reach new highs, reiterating his point about market manipulations.

Peter Schiff, the CEO of Euro Pacific Capital, is not amused by Bitcoin's latest 40 percent price revival.

The world-famous gold proponent continues to insist that the crypto market is being manipulated by deep-pocketed whales.

In his latest tweet, Schiff states that large Bitcoin holders want to protect themselves from the upcoming market crash by selling their BTC and using delusional holders to cash in.   

After numerous pundits tried to wrap their heads around the recent market rally, Schiff took to Twitter to share his own take on Oct. 28. He believes that this Bitcoin turnaround had nothing to do with China and everything to do with whales "suckering in" gullible buyers.

Schiff rose to stardom by accurately foreseeing the financial market crisis in 2008, but Bitcoin price predictions might not be his thing.

As reported by U.Today, he claimed that the BTC price could plunge to as low as $2,000 on Oct. 20, less than a week before Bitcoin recorded its third biggest daily gain in history.

His $4,000 prediction, which was made right after Bitcoin's precipitous plunge to the $8,000 level, also never came to fruition.   

Source

Undeniably price manipulation often happens in unregulated crypto markets. Do you agree in this economist statement or do you oppose? Do you believe that recent price surge is cause by manipulation or natural demand?

Investors who are currently considered as whales wouldn't be in their position if they are not strategic and wise. You would definitely see them out there selling bitcoin before the market crash because they know it's the best thing to do. We can say that they are manipulating the price of bitcoin wherein as they sell on high, the price would go down and then afterwards, they can start buying cheap bitcoin to hold it for long and sell it again when the price comes back up. It's all bout outsmarting the system, that's why they ended up becoming Whales.

[Webetcoins]

While bitcoin is getting harder and harder each day to manipulate by some large movers it still happens

From my perspective, things look a little bit different

We have recently seen a surge in volatility of Bitcoin prices, and that has a simple explanation as well as a straightforward implication and an obvious conclusion. The explanation is that these bouts of volatility are due to markets becoming thin (what can be seen by declining trading volumes)

Then, the implication is that with thin markets it takes less liquidity to move them in the desired direction, be it up or down, or even preventing such moves (as this is also a possibility and an option). All that leads us to a conclusion that Bitcoin is in fact getting easier to manipulate as trading volumes decline

Yeah agree that if the daily trading volume of bitcoin is less then it will need less money to manipulate the prices but the manipulation may not more profitable to the whales if no traders respond to that

Actually, that depends on a scale of the whale, so to speak

It can be said that whales come in all forms and sizes, but what's even more important here is the fact that the ability to manipulate prices in a meaningful (read, profitable) way trickles down to whales of a smaller caliber in thinner markets. In other words, people whom we would never consider whales under different circumstances now can move the price, i.e. behave in exactly the same way as we would expect a real whale to behave. The bottom line is that it still remains a matter of perspective (more specifically, of zooming in and discerning the smaller whales acting like the big ones)

Every investor counts and holds its own role. The impact of those who buy or sell big amounts is indeed greater than those who play in points but still if a lot of small investors will sell out, it is going to leave same impression on market value of the coin as that done by a big whale. Moreover, it is not only whales or investors that are only factor. The market depends on government movements too.

[wheelz1200]

We may not see such 1000% rise in price from bottom to peak like with the last halving of LTC, yet still, 200-300% price increase is a very possible thing.

A 300% price increase would take Bitcoin from the current levels of $9,000 to $36,000. I am not sure whether we can expect such a rise. I would say that the chances looks 50/50 right now. There is also a good chance that the exchange rates can go down (just like what happened to Litecoin, immediately after the block reward halving)

So what you are saying is the the price might go up a lot or it might go down a lot after halving.  . I mean one of those comments will be right.  People/groups buy and sell for various reasons.  Smart money doesnt follow the crowd.  Best case is to just steadily buy on predetermined timelines, and when it does go up just enjoy the ride. 

[deisik]

It can be said that whales come in all forms and sizes, but what's even more important here is the fact that the ability to manipulate prices in a meaningful (read, profitable) way trickles down to whales of a smaller caliber in thinner markets. In other words, people whom we would never consider whales under different circumstances now can move the price, i.e. behave in exactly the same way as we would expect a real whale to behave. The bottom line is that it still remains a matter of perspective (more specifically, of zooming in and discerning the smaller whales acting like the big ones)

Every investor counts and holds its own role. The impact of those who buy or sell big amounts is indeed greater than those who play in points but still if a lot of small investors will sell out, it is going to leave same impression on market value of the coin as that done by a big whale. Moreover, it is not only whales or investors that are only factor. The market depends on government movements too

There is even a theory that there are no whales (only big holders who are not trading)

And thus there are no market manipulations either, so all price movements are only caused by changes in aggregate demand as well as supply. Personally, I'm not very much sold on this theory, but that's not my point here. The main problem with the current market is that even relatively small investors and traders can move the market on their own (i.e. not collectively). In this way, they are the new whales, with truly big whales hiding deep under the surface

[Clement Kaliyar]

There is even a theory that there are no whales (only big holders who are not trading)

Big bitcoin holders are called as whales and majority are holding the coins for the long period.

And thus there are no market manipulation either, so all price movements are only caused by changes in aggregate demand as well as supply. Personally, I'm not very much sold on this theory, but that's not my point here. The main problem with the current market is that even relatively small investors and traders can move the market on their own (i.e. not collectively). In this way, they are the new whales, with truly big whales hiding deep under the surface

The market is not regulated and hence the possibility of manipulation is highly likely to happen and so is the reason we see instant rise and fall in the price quite often. Even a movement of huge amounts of coins from old dormant wallets can create FUD and we have seen those situation in the past where the market usually goes down when ever there is a movement of coins.

[deisik]

There is even a theory that there are no whales (only big holders who are not trading)

Big bitcoin holders are called as whales and majority are holding the coins for the long period

In trading parlance whales are the ones who move the price

So the big holders who are just sitting on their coins don't cut it as whales (unless they choose to enter the heat), though I certainly see what you are getting at, But ultimately, it is only a matter of convention, and probably not worth discussing here further

And thus there are no market manipulation either, so all price movements are only caused by changes in aggregate demand as well as supply. Personally, I'm not very much sold on this theory, but that's not my point here. The main problem with the current market is that even relatively small investors and traders can move the market on their own (i.e. not collectively). In this way, they are the new whales, with truly big whales hiding deep under the surface

The market is not regulated and hence the possibility of manipulation is highly likely to happen and so is the reason we see instant rise and fall in the price quite often. Even a movement of huge amounts of coins from old dormant wallets can create FUD and we have seen those situation in the past where the market usually goes down when ever there is a movement of coins

I'm not saying there's no manipulation. I'm only saying there exists such an idea or theory that what we think as deliberate manipulation is really just regular market behavior. If someone buys a load of coins and that expectedly moves the price up, would you call that manipulation? And when someone else instantly unloads into this upward push, and with a vengeance at that, would it count as yet another instance of deliberate market manipulation? If these are the examples of market manipulation, then this approach destroys the very idea of manipulation as every significant price change becomes an act of downright manipulation

Note, these are the premises of that theory, I don't necessarily agree with them nor the theory itself

[NathanJB]

We may not see such 1000% rise in price from bottom to peak like with the last halving of LTC, yet still, 200-300% price increase is a very possible thing.

A 300% price increase would take Bitcoin from the current levels of $9,000 to $36,000. I am not sure whether we can expect such a rise. I would say that the chances looks 50/50 right now. There is also a good chance that the exchange rates can go down (just like what happened to Litecoin, immediately after the block reward halving)

So what you are saying is the the price might go up a lot or it might go down a lot after halving.  . I mean one of those comments will be right.  People/groups buy and sell for various reasons.  Smart money doesnt follow the crowd.  Best case is to just steadily buy on predetermined timelines, and when it does go up just enjoy the ride. 

It is like those self-proclaimed experts in trading showing off their self-proclaimed expert technical analysis. They will tell you that this particular movement in this particular direction is probably going happen but everybody should also be watchful and brace for the possibility that it will also take the opposite direction. They will always be right and never wrong, which makes them totally worthless.

[cotton ball]

We may not see such 1000% rise in price from bottom to peak like with the last halving of LTC, yet still, 200-300% price increase is a very possible thing.

A 300% price increase would take Bitcoin from the current levels of $9,000 to $36,000. I am not sure whether we can expect such a rise. I would say that the chances looks 50/50 right now. There is also a good chance that the exchange rates can go down (just like what happened to Litecoin, immediately after the block reward halving)

So what you are saying is the the price might go up a lot or it might go down a lot after halving.  . I mean one of those comments will be right.  People/groups buy and sell for various reasons.  Smart money doesnt follow the crowd.  Best case is to just steadily buy on predetermined timelines, and when it does go up just enjoy the ride. 

It is like those self-proclaimed experts in trading showing off their self-proclaimed expert technical analysis. They will tell you that this particular movement in this particular direction is probably going happen but everybody should also be watchful and brace for the possibility that it will also take the opposite direction. They will always be right and never wrong, which makes them totally worthless.

Selling bitcoin before crash market maybe still possible because bitcoin price right now have down, although always end year bitcoin can prediction to higher price maybe is not available with this year bitcoin goes down. Without any confirmation with bitcoin adopt by big company and no country want to allow using bitcoin as legal currency will give bad price for bitcoin at the future.

[abeecrypto]

I don’t know about you guys, but I take this as a positive note. This is what they do; at one point, they say things are about to go bad, then at another point, they are reaping benefits from the bull of the market. Very strategic people.
The ‘haters’ of crypto are still reaping benefits from them.

[deisik]

I don’t know about you guys, but I take this as a positive note. This is what they do; at one point, they say things are about to go bad, then at another point, they are reaping benefits from the bull of the market. Very strategic people.
The ‘haters’ of crypto are still reaping benefits from them

These people are essentially producing noise

They may have their own agendas (and they most certainly do) but you should be aware that even if you strongly disagree with what they say or claim, their words are still affecting you and probably not in the way you would really want. They are spreading FUD, and it is not like we are immune to it even if we think we are and know better. Remember, the bigger the lie, the more it will be believed

[stepwilli]

I don't know how many times we are going to discuss this topic. This topic is no longer something new, it has been discussed a lot of times and we all know for sure that Bitcoin can be manipulated ,same thing with other cryptocurrencies that are unregulated, they can all be manipulated.

Judging from your rank in this forum you're already an old member I believe you know much about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, so you should not be asking questions on whether unregulated cryptocurrencies can be manipulated, because they can be. Small altcoins are even the worst, they have small market cap and anyone with a huge amount of money can just jump on any of them and start manipulating the price and after they are done they will dump then.

[imstillthebest]

I don't know how many times we are going to discuss this topic. This topic is no longer something new, it has been discussed a lot of times  .

and we all know for sure that Bitcoin can be manipulated ,same thing with other cryptocurrencies that are unregulated, they can all be manipulated.

huh ? i dont know about you but this is the only time that i saw this topic. . but im aware that bitcoin is manipulated but im not aware that whales are selling before the dump happens   . whales are here because they also want to profit and they can only profit big ones they sell thier coins at the highest possible value and besides , if they will crash the market, itll only lead to more crashes because people will going to panic and sell

[kaya11]

Peter Schiff is a gold bug, not an economist
About the manipulation stuff, yes, it is a legit concern since many exchanges are not regulated. Economists like to echo the "95% of reported bitcoin trading volume is fake" article. Hence, we will have this debate over and over if the situation doesn't change, i.e., not all (major) market regulated.

Trying to guess what caused the pump or the dump is useless in this "mixed" market since there is severe asymmetric information in the inefficient market.

So how can we know if the market is now manipulated or if someone says bitcoin is crashing? When the one whose saying it and talking about it are people with names and not to mention with their prestigious companies.

[NathanJB]

We may not see such 1000% rise in price from bottom to peak like with the last halving of LTC, yet still, 200-300% price increase is a very possible thing.

A 300% price increase would take Bitcoin from the current levels of $9,000 to $36,000. I am not sure whether we can expect such a rise. I would say that the chances looks 50/50 right now. There is also a good chance that the exchange rates can go down (just like what happened to Litecoin, immediately after the block reward halving)

So what you are saying is the the price might go up a lot or it might go down a lot after halving.  . I mean one of those comments will be right.  People/groups buy and sell for various reasons.  Smart money doesnt follow the crowd.  Best case is to just steadily buy on predetermined timelines, and when it does go up just enjoy the ride. 

It is like those self-proclaimed experts in trading showing off their self-proclaimed expert technical analysis. They will tell you that this particular movement in this particular direction is probably going happen but everybody should also be watchful and brace for the possibility that it will also take the opposite direction. They will always be right and never wrong, which makes them totally worthless.

Selling bitcoin before crash market maybe still possible because bitcoin price right now have down, although always end year bitcoin can prediction to higher price maybe is not available with this year bitcoin goes down. Without any confirmation with bitcoin adopt by big company and no country want to allow using bitcoin as legal currency will give bad price for bitcoin at the future.

Do you have an accurate tool to predict when will the market crash? I bet you don't have it so you cannot sell your Bitcoin at the most perfect time. Year ends do not always give Bitcoin a better price. There is no such pattern if I am not mistaken.

News about adoption will always be positive for Bitcoin especially if the company announcing is a large global company that has a solid clientele. A country announcing its support to Bitcoin is much better.

[mu_enrico]

So how can we know if the market is now manipulated or if someone says bitcoin is crashing?

You can't have 100% certainty. The market doesn't work that way.

However, you could say:
- There is evidence for market manipulation, as explained by Bitwise et al.;
- Margin trading "flash crash;"
- Correlation between Tether "printer" activities and BTC price;
- Some say the correlation between YoBit activities and BTC price, etc.

How reliable? You judge it by yourself.

When the one whose saying it and talking about it are people with names and not to mention with their prestigious companies.

Famous people could say whatever they want, but rarely they will get punished, especially in the crypto market. In the regulated market, stupid comments will lead to fines and maybe getting delisted.

[FanEagle]

Every investor counts and holds its own role. The impact of those who buy or sell big amounts is indeed greater than those who play in points but still if a lot of small investors will sell out, it is going to leave same impression on market value of the coin as that done by a big whale. Moreover, it is not only whales or investors that are only factor. The market depends on government movements too

There is even a theory that there are no whales (only big holders who are not trading)

And thus there are no market manipulations either, so all price movements are only caused by changes in aggregate demand as well as supply. Personally, I'm not very much sold on this theory, but that's not my point here. The main problem with the current market is that even relatively small investors and traders can move the market on their own (i.e. not collectively). In this way, they are the new whales, with truly big whales hiding deep under the surface

Anyone that has large amount of money to move in and out of the market at the shortest possible time is to me termed as a whale whether they are individual or group of people, so whales actually do exist and they started too when the wall street entered the market, it was from there that the manipulation of this bitcoin started.

Also, it is not every time like you said we see all forms of dip and rise of bitcoin as manipulation, some are definitely caused by the activities of people which sometime depend on the way they place demand and supply for these coins. Sometimes, many of these people claiming that whale will be crashing the market is just because they are also looking for the best spot to buy at a very cheaper rate so they can only join the market manipulation by buying the coin at a very cheap rate after creating panic for some investors.