Greeks face heavy fines if they don't spend 30% of their income electronically

[13abyknight]

Coming from a country which had its economy in shambles recently, this is actually a positive move to help its people to move away from cash and into electronic payment systems. Fines imposed will definitely be used by the government towards possibly clearing the massive debt that already exists and it comes as no surprise that these are big numbers we're talking about here.

[Febo]

Is this a joke? How can the government force something like this, when the people are already paying the income tax over their salaries? The tax rates in Greece remains one of the highest in the world, and now the government want to take away a part of the remainder as well. This will never be implemented successfully, and people will find loopholes to get around the system.

Loophole is just to spend that much of their income with online banking. LOL  It is a bit silly, but people will just do that. It is quite simple. Some people dont like changes, but now they will have a carrot to make one.

[lunnatic]

This seems to be a trend in Europe with other countries making similar requirements. This is a trend that’s probably good for cryptocurrencies.

even though it is a trend of European countries, but it still makes a mystery, why do they have to spend 30% of their total income? Isn't that a person's own privacy, I think the rules are a bit silly, if only paying taxes I think there is no problem

[CarnagexD]

This seems to be a trend in Europe with other countries making similar requirements. This is a trend that’s probably good for cryptocurrencies.

even though it is a trend of European countries, but it still makes a mystery, why do they have to spend 30% of their total income? Isn't that a person's own privacy, I think the rules are a bit silly, if only paying taxes I think there is no problem

That is a total rigged. 30% is way too much to spend forcefully. European countries are no doubt active when talking about cryptocurency,In fact just recently Germany announced its new law that imposes cryptocurrency option on their banking system. The ruling of this is a bit off for me, even taxes on european are bit higher. This is good for the cryptocurrencies though, but it does make another lose deal to the citizen. No doubt what these countries will do in the name of economy.

[BChydro]

Greece has imposed fines for citizens that fail to spend 30% of their income electronically.

I am speechless to see these kind of restrictions and dictatorship kind of rules in the name of helping the nation to catch tax evaders is bullshit, happy that we are not facing these situation and hopefully we will not be forced to do everything digitally as the trend is coming that the government is forcing people to do all the transactions digitally while some of the fools thing that the government is doing it to help the decentralized market and after seeing all these comments i tend to crack up because of the naivety everyone has.

[gentlemand]

I am speechless to see these kind of restrictions and dictatorship kind of rules in the name of helping the nation to catch tax evaders is bullshit, happy that we are not facing these situation and hopefully we will not be forced to do everything digitally as the trend is coming that the government is forcing people to do all the transactions digitally while some of the fools thing that the government is doing it to help the decentralized market and after seeing all these comments i tend to crack up because of the naivety everyone has.

In this particular case it's a direct result of vast swathes of the population refusing to pay their due. If everyone else expects someone else to pay for the functioning of your society then you don't got much of a society any more. Also a lot of people there are paid in cash which is very unusual so the chances of never seeing the tax man are even higher.

But this is ignoring that Greece has the lowest internet uptake in the EU. Paying online can be a hopeless pain up the arse in the UK which is supposed to be well connected so this doesn't bode well. And I wonder how carefully thought through that 30% figure is.

[avatar_kiyoshi]

This seems to be a trend in Europe with other countries making similar requirements. This is a trend that’s probably good for cryptocurrencies.

even though it is a trend of European countries, but it still makes a mystery, why do they have to spend 30% of their total income? Isn't that a person's own privacy, I think the rules are a bit silly, if only paying taxes I think there is no problem

It looks like the Greek government wants to impose its debt on citizens, this is suck. That's why there are a many ways that the citizens dodge from tax. This is a good time for Bitcoin to shine at Greek. Bitcoin is currency for the people, it has proven to be perfect in Venezuela. The Greek government should have realized that and taken action before they became Venezuela v2.0

[jrrsparkles]

Greece has imposed fines for citizens that fail to spend 30% of their income electronically.

They claim this policy is implemented to cut down on tax evasion, for which greece is notorious for. We've witnessed similar anti tax evasion strategies unrolled in india. There is a question mark as to whether these measures are imposed with the intent to cut tax evasion, or whether they are anti cash policies utilized in an effort to further a cashless society paradigm.

Demonetization in India didn't change anything related to tax evasions and people who is holding black money,all they did for the political benefits.But making the transactions digitized with help them at somewhat but do they will really track all the transactions or the government will just target particular individual who doesn't support the ruling party on that country.In India many were jailed for tax evasion but all those people were against the ruling party,many ministers from ruling party has accusations but it is still unresolved. Hope the same thing will not happen here...

[Duzter]

Is this a joke? How can the government force something like this, when the people are already paying the income tax over their salaries? The tax rates in Greece remains one of the highest in the world, and now the government want to take away a part of the remainder as well. This will never be implemented successfully, and people will find loopholes to get around the system.

Governments should not force people to go completely on electronical spending. If the government is implementing it for the goodness of the public then they should've made the people understand it and further implement it. What's been done by Greece looks like a decision that is taken in a short without proper analysis and understanding about the mind of the citizens regarding the new adoption.

[figmentofmyass]

This just begs to become another use case for Bitcoin, and not because it's electronic but because it's electronic cash - it can be used to avoid taxes just like cash

not just bitcoin, but anything outside the formal euro banking system. stablecoins would work too. the key is to use a private/informal system that doesn't entail tax reporting.

i think that's why governments are so up in arms about stablecoins. not only are they an easy way to avoid cash controls, but since they are pegged to cash value, they are the most obvious replacement for cash itself.

[Argoo]

It is still possible for them to implement such policy as a preparation for a cashless system. And there's nothing wrong about it, in fact, it would help cut the needed natural resources used in cash production. However, it does sacrifice some financial freedom (because cash is harder to trace than digital means of transaction). And not all people are capable of transacting digitally.

I don’t see anything good in this. Governments want to control the movement of money and such measures are very convenient for this. And there are always explanations and excuses. Paper money has existed for more than four centuries, and previously everything was fine. Forcing people to make transactions in a certain way, this in any case limits their financial freedom. I am generally against the use of such measures.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Greece also has one of the lowest internet usage rates in the EU at 72 per cent. This suggests that some in the country could struggle to meet the 30 per cent target.

Gotta love that, the government forcing people who don't use the internet to spend their money electronically, which usually includes spending it on the internet.  This reminds me of China's push to go cashless, which would put their elderly population in something of a bind. 

These kinds of stories disgust me.  We work so hard for our money, and governments just don't give a shit about putting restrictions like this on the people.  I don't know about Greece's "rampant tax evasion" problem, but I suspect that's just an excuse for their government to restrict how Greeks spend their own money, much like how the US has used the war on terror to spy on everyone.

I don’t see anything good in this.

Nor do I.  I'm hoping this doesn't become a trend for governments to do crap like this.

[iamsheikhadil]

LOL. While I appreciate it, I wonder what these laws would seem like in a world where crypto is emerging. I mean, crypto is also digital but it's untraceable so obviously they won't be Nle to detect if there's a non tax paying crypto billionaire present among them xD

[stompix]

I don't know about Greece's "rampant tax evasion" problem, but I suspect that's just an excuse for their government to restrict how Greeks spend their own money, much like how the US has used the war on terror to spy on everyone.

Rampant is not really accurate. It's more like a national sport or some sort of religious movement.
Greeks have been among the first ones to go bankrupt in human history, they will be probably the last.
They hate the taxman but at the same time they love getting freebies, they pay zero in taxes but everybody was enjoying benefits from the government, just imagine the term "14th wage". Yeah, they were getting 14th wages a year!

I've been to Greece a couple of times, even before the euro and the crisis, receipts were nonexistent, you would get your restaurant bill on a piece of paper handwritten, asking to pay with a card, the machine is broken, asking for a receipt, the machine is broken.

Yeah, the measure is not right, its nor normal but neither is that country.
Either way, nothing is going to save them, the whole country and system is flawed from birth.

Bitcoin is the currency for the people, it has proven to be perfect in Venezuela.

Apart from fake news and the usual stupid articles from bitcoin-related blogs, is there any proof of this?
Understand that it's one thing to usu something as a hedge against inflation and a totally different beast to use it daily.

The tax rates in Greece remains one of the highest in the world, and now the government want to take away a part of the remainder as well. T

Denmark: Hold my beer!
Sweden: Hold my beer!
Finland: Hold my reindeer!

[audaciousbeing]

Efforts like this are one of the things that government will continue to get wrong. What they should do to attack an action, they are focusing on something else. What if the a Greek is someone who would save 70% of his income, would he be punished for not spending? I don't understand. What a reasonable government should do is to focus on the source of receipt as a way to get tax. There is a form of Personal Income Tax which is deducted from the employees income before reaching his hand, there is also Withholding tax. Going after individuals will result in a waste of energy and resources rather corporate organisations where individuals gets their income.

[figmentofmyass]

Greece also has one of the lowest internet usage rates in the EU at 72 per cent. This suggests that some in the country could struggle to meet the 30 per cent target.

Gotta love that, the government forcing people who don't use the internet to spend their money electronically, which usually includes spending it on the internet.  This reminds me of China's push to go cashless, which would put their elderly population in something of a bind.

apparently cash is still the primary means of payment for greek consumers. part of the reason for that is that wages are still heavily paid in cash. so a 30% requirement is pretty messed up.

for the last few years, the greek government has been incentivizing electronic payments by offering income tax deductions. those aged 70+ don't need to use electronic payments to get the deduction so presumably there is a similar exemption here.

[beerlover]

Oh, I have never guessed about the online shopping as a way of not evading taxes. It is a marvelous idea, I know we don't spend that much money anywhere in the world and if Greeks are not ready for it they will have to have online shops for basically everything but if they can this is actually an amazing idea.

But, I hate it when governments decide where your money should go, I am not against taxes tho, I like taxes as long as that tax goes to right places, a country is only as strong as how efficient the taxes are used (Greece may not be a good example of that lol) but thanks to this forced online shopping method there would be less people evading taxes. They will have to figure out how they can make sure they know the 100% of peoples income versus spending 30% of it of course but that is a whole another topic.

[Theb]

I wonder how forcing them to spend 30% of their income electronically will avoid tax evasion when they can also fake their real income in the first place. I mean there are more reasonable ways of monitoring and avoiding tax evasion and money laundering without them forcing their citizens on spending their money. Encouraging their citizens to spend rather than to save money is more about them earning more income through taxes and it's really not about avoiding tax evasion. This might just be a desperate move from a country with a bad economy to encourage their people to spend and spend so that the economy will keep going.

[figmentofmyass]

I wonder how forcing them to spend 30% of their income electronically will avoid tax evasion when they can also fake their real income in the first place.

i assume they are addressing income tax fraud in other ways. if they improved income tax reporting and deterred cash payments of wages, then mandatory electronic payments would address VAT/sales tax fraud on the consumer side. it looks like that's what they are targeting with this measure. studies estimate that 3.5% of greek GDP is lost to VAT fraud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Greece#Extent_of_Greek_tax_evasion_and_corruption

[bdivrik]

Is this a joke? How can the government force something like this, when the people are already paying the income tax over their salaries? The tax rates in Greece remains one of the highest in the world, and now the government want to take away a part of the remainder as well. This will never be implemented successfully, and people will find loopholes to get around the system.

tax rates are also very high in Turkey. People pay part of their earnings as taxes. But the main problem is this. There are very high taxes on imported goods. How could something like this happen. A state that earns more than the producer? I don't think it's the right economic model.