DT1-member included banned red-trusted users which increased his own Trust score

[LoyceV]

See this update before jumping to conclusions

While updating Complete overview of users on DT1 and DT2 and their ratings, I noticed this DT1-member:

Trust list for: klarki (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (3) 132 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2019-12-21_Sat_06.10h)
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klarki Trusts these users' judgement:
1. Cubic Earth Banned! (Trust: +0 / =0 / -2) (18 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. Lauda (Trust: +34 / =4 / -1) (1232 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. DrBeer (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (52 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. donnyespo (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. yahoo62278 (Trust: +20 / =3 / -0) (1052 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. soniclord Banned! (Trust: +0 / =0 / -2) (2 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
7. nimogsm (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (26 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
8. lega46141 Banned! (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
9. TheFuzzStone (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (9) 762 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
10. Komosa (Trust: neutral) (5 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
11. oldminer78 Banned! (Trust: +0 / =0 / -2) (5 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
12. PolyPanto (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (148 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Trust list: backscratchers: users agree, they trust or distrust each other.

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.
Get your own Trust list in BBCode at loyce.club/trust.

He included 4 banned users, 3 of them have received negative feedback, and all 4 have given him positive feedback.
Out of the +7 positive feedbacks he received, only +1 (johhnyUA) was not put on DT2 by himself.

I'm just leaving this here for the community, so it doesn't get burried in the other thread.

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[dkbit98]

OMG... all the things I see members do here to pump up their profiles. 

[TheNewAnon135246]

Jeez, who would've seen this kind of behaviour coming .

[Findingnemo]

DT farming is on the way, I guess its time for theymos to manually blacklist some DT members who abuse the system.

Better discuss this on Meta Section.

[alani123]

Props to Loyce for discovering things like this... The trust system has a few weaknesses and I guess 'back scratching' could be considered one. DT members, and especially on DT1, should be heavily scrutinized by the community for such things not to be so easy to pull off.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

DT farming is on the way, I guess its time for theymos to manually blacklist some DT members who abuse the system.

Agreed.  I've never heard of this guy before, but it's obvious what he's trying to pull here.  Not sure if he thought it would go unnoticed or what, but props to LoyceV for uncovering this rancid piece of shenanigans. 

OMG... all the things I see members do here to pump up their profiles. 

Seriously.  Anything that can be abused on this forum will be, to the maximum extent possible at some point or another.

[LoyceV]

DT farming is on the way, I guess its time for theymos to manually blacklist some DT members who abuse the system.

I don't expect this to happen: theymos has blacklisted a few people from DT1 (several of them at their own request), but I haven't seen anyone blacklisted from DT2. The system is designed for DT1 to keep DT2 in check.

Better discuss this on Meta Section.

It's been discussed before, that's why I posted this individual case in Reputation.

DT members, and especially on DT1, should be heavily scrutinized by the community for such things not to be so easy to pull off.

Agreed. But DT1 changes monthly, DT2 changes continuously, and individual Trust lists can change at any moment too. It's very time consuming to keep track of all bad actions all the time.

I've never heard of this guy before

In his defense: he mainly posts in Russian, which most forum users can't read.

[TheUltraElite]

I've never heard of this guy before,

Well that is strange, Because....

Klarki is the maintainer of the Livecoin exchange thread and acts as their support on this forum. I am not sure but they may just the owner of this exchange. I am sure he can be approached via PM and told about this suspected trust farming.

[alani123]

DT members, and especially on DT1, should be heavily scrutinized by the community for such things not to be so easy to pull off.

Agreed. But DT1 changes monthly, DT2 changes continuously, and individual Trust lists can change at any moment too. It's very time consuming to keep track of all bad actions all the time.

I'd say that in this context, tools are the best utility the community could have to assist in policing DT and activity like "back scratching" by making easier to hunt for anomalies. I'm just wondering, since you say it's time consuming, is the access to trust activity developers can have to build their tools sufficient? And how resource intensive would be a tool that could make matters easier for such abuses in DT?

[eddie13]

Can you tell how long Klarki has had them on his trust list?
If they have been on his list for a very long time then maybe it is not malicious trust stacking and he simply didn't realize they were later banned or whatever..

Before the new DT system many users included others thinking it was like a +trust or something, I imagine like the way I was included by Seal a long time ago and never even knew until the new system was put in, so it could also be something like that..

Anyone PM him yet?
It's possible he has a good explanation and will fix it..

May not be a good inclusion into DT1 either way though..

[LoyceV]

Can you tell how long Klarki has had them on his trust list?

Good point: his Trust list is the same now as it was in January.

[LTU_btc]

Can you tell how long Klarki has had them on his trust list?

Good point: his Trust list is the same now as it was in January.

Timeline of things is important in this case. Now I'm on mobile, so it's not very convenient to check everything. It's important to know what happened earlier - these users got red trust and ban or user mentioned in OP added them to his trust list. If he added them before these events, I don't think it can be called as trust abuse.

[IconFirm]

Klarki is the maintainer of the Livecoin exchange thread and acts as their support on this forum.

You mean he shills for the scam exchange - there is no support & he doesn't provide any either.

[xolxol]

DT farming is on the way, I guess its time for theymos to manually blacklist some DT members who abuse the system.

You mean start with the abusers like lauda and friends? i like that to happen most of the abused people esp those who were tagged with shitty reasons will have the balls  to come out.

[nutildah]

klarki is now down to DT1(0).

Is (0) the threshold required to deactivate their DT2-appointing powers, or is it (-1)?

I think a lot some of DT1 feels like they might get a retaliatory exclusion, and if you don't have many () to waste ("political capital" as I like to call it), then you're not going to exclude people for less than exceptionally compelling reasons.

Speaking of people with a lot of political capital, Loyce why haven't you excluded them yet? I'm just curious.

[suchmoon]

Is (0) the threshold required to deactivate their DT2-appointing powers, or is it (-1)?

-1 i.e. when they're crossed out here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dtview

Speaking of people with a lot of political capital, Loyce why haven't you excluded them yet? I'm just curious.

[Balthazar]

Simplest option is to ~ these banned DT2s and that will resolve issue as is.

[klarki]

Hello, community!)

It's funny you're discussing me without me)

[LoyceV]

I think a lot some of DT1 feels like they might get a retaliatory exclusion, and if you don't have many () to waste ("political capital" as I like to call it), then you're not going to exclude people for less than exceptionally compelling reasons.

That's always a trade-off indeed. There's still far too much retaliation in the Trust system.

Speaking of people with a lot of political capital, Loyce why haven't you excluded them yet? I'm just curious.

I don't like to jump to conclusions, that's why I wanted to get community opinions first. Eddie13 made a good point that I missed: klarki had them on his Trust list long before he was DT1.
I was also hoping klarki would respond here, but instead he posted in Russian:

Cтpaннaя кoнeчнo лoгикa y LoyceV, ибo мoй тpacт лиcт пpaктичecки нe мeнялcя. Ужe мнoгo paз oбcyждaлocь o вaжнocти coздaния coбcтвeннoгo тpacтлиcтa, чтo coбcтвeннo я и cдeлaл (дoбaвил имeннo тex людeй, c кoтopыми мeня cвязывaют пo бoльшeй cтeпeни имeннo финaнcoвыe взaимooтнoшeния).
И вce этo былo cдeлaнo дo мoeгo вxoждeния в DT1 и ни o кaкoм фepмepcтвe DT здecь и peчи быть нe мoжeт. Tpacт лиcт иcпoльзyeтcя пo eгo пpямoмy нaзнaчeнию, нe бoльшe и нe мeньшe)

Translated:

Of course, LoyceV has a strange logic, because my trust list has not changed much. It has already been discussed many times about the importance of creating my own trust, which I actually did (I added precisely those people with whom financial relations mostly connect me).
And all this was done before I entered DT1, and there can be no talk of any DT farming here. The trust sheet is used for its intended purpose, no more and no less)

The part in red (if translated correctly) makes me think he confuse the Trust list with feedback.

It's funny you're discussing me without me)

Please join I posted this in public for a reason (and unfortunately can't do that in Russian).

[nutildah]

I think a lot some of DT1 feels like they might get a retaliatory exclusion, and if you don't have many () to waste ("political capital" as I like to call it), then you're not going to exclude people for less than exceptionally compelling reasons.

That's always a trade-off indeed. There's still far too much retaliation in the Trust system.

Speaking of people with a lot of political capital, Loyce why haven't you excluded them yet? I'm just curious.

I don't like to jump to conclusions, that's why I wanted to get community opinions first.
Translated:

Of course, LoyceV has a strange logic, because my trust list has not changed much. It has already been discussed many times about the importance of creating my own trust, which I actually did (I added precisely those people with whom financial relations mostly connect me).
And all this was done before I entered DT1, and there can be no talk of any DT farming here. The trust sheet is used for its intended purpose, no more and no less)

The part in red (if translated correctly) makes me think he confuse the Trust list with feedback.

All this is true; I just think its poor form to have banned members in your trust list.

Hello, community!)

It's funny you're discussing me without me)

If you remove the banned members from your trust list I will remove your exclusion next week after checking Loyce's update. Hope you didn't take it personally.