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Author Topic: Trust abuse and some "strange" theories.  (Read 701 times)
KTChampions
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December 25, 2019, 11:51:23 AM
 #1

What happened: user johhnyUA gave me red tag for no trust case.
Information about the inadequacy and deceit of this reference I will write below. To begin with, the story of its appearance.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1097370;dt

The main problems with Johnny began because of my investigations.
There were several cases when I accused users with high ranks in abuse, but he defended them.
Example: Smart man - serial scammer, eventually tagged and banned.
"Last straw" in his turning to madness was the topic (started by johhnyUA) about markiz73 [BAN APPEAL] markiz73 in whose defense he involved a lot of people.
After my investigation, this topic was closed forever.
After that, johhnyUA once again began to insult me. I openly announced that his behavior pattern is similar to another user's behavior pattern proof.
johhnyUA realized that I would investigate him. What could he do in this situation, given that he had nothing against me?
He did not find anything smarter than leaving me a red tag for my disputes with other people and for his fantasies (lies).
A few hours later, I published a topic that johhnyUA is a bounty cheater.

Separately, I want to note that that initial reference from johhnyUA was even funnier than the one that is left now. Additionally, he accused me of supporting Craig Wright, on the grounds that I translated his article. In December of this year, johhnyUA got into DT2 (thanks to the lottery and trolling by some members of the forum, but I do not want to point to them now, as this is a separate topic for discussion). Some users began to make fun of johhnyUA for his inadequate reference and he deleted it. Then he edited it and left again. It is still not relevant. Considering that johhnyUA was DT2 at that moment and he was warned about the unacceptability of his actions, this is a trust abuse.

Once again, the order of events:

By July 27th, questions on Smart Man and markiz73 were closed by me.
On July 29th, I accuse him of botofarming.
In response, he leaves me feedback on the events of May 29th (for some reason, this did not bother him before).
I publish the topic that he is a bounty cheater, it is still July 29th.
In January, he gets into DT2.
The situation becomes dangerous for him and he removes his feedback. Edits and leaves it again.

Given that nothing has fundamentally changed, I leave my tag to johhnyUA for trust abuse.

If anyone is interested in my disputes about bitcoin, shitposting, scammer Crage Wright, scammers in community, etc. then they can read them here here and anywhere on the links. I am ready to answer for every word I say.

I would love to complete this topic now, but since I started I have to write the rest of the "anomalies" with johhnyUA. So:

Maybe he (someday, somehow) will be able to prove that he is not a bounty cheater and maybe he will stop abusing the trust system, but there is another problem: he has mental health problems.. I am not a doctor, but I draw conclusions on his behavior and the opinions of other people.
His "amazing" stories concern not only me, but also many other users:

Quote
marlboroza   2019-10-02      Personal note: user sent me unsolicited PM and accused my grandpa of being ustaša. Don't interact with this user in any way.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=623643;dt

Problems with nationalities and nationalism constantly come out of johhnyUA. In Ru local, he writes a lot on this topic (in sections not intended for this). I do not want to drag all this filth and shit here, just a quote:

~
And if the post does not mention Russians or the Russian Federation in a negative way, then it means that it was not johhnyUA who wrote it.

And finally: theymos want to steal forums money - another story by johhnyUA.

~another criticism of cleaning the forum from abusers~
Again, maybe I'm slipping into conspiracy theology, but it seems that this is a kind of semi-subconscious idea by ​​theymos. To then take money from the forum to himself. And the assumption is not from scratch, but based on many suspicious factors.
~
http://archive.md/u6rtd#selection-7201.0-7201.228

~
If you started talking like that, theymos can pick them (money) up anytime.

As I recall, this money is not the money of theymos, they transferred to him for storage from Sirius, and before to Sirius from Satoshi (but I'm not sure here).
And the concept of "pick up at any time" in the context of the foreign mentality does not work. Russian lives according to a proverb "proverb about stealing - I did not translate it"and it’s normal for him to disappear with a lot of money and then show up somewhere and say that “mine”. Moreover, there are no restrictions on the quantity either. If you steal, then all at once. How was it there? "another proverb about stealing"

Foreigners who are used to living under the rule of law guaranteeing the inviolability of life and private property cannot directly steal, in most of course. Therefore, various schemes are devised to not only be clean before the law, but before own conscience.
http://archive.md/5iRM8#selection-2849.0-2863.291

Once again, the Russians are mentioned in a negative sense (johhnyUA himself is Ukrainian) and it is alleged that theymos wants to steal forum money. And these are "not just assumptions, but conclusions from some suspicious facts".

Conclusion: I tag johhnyUA for trust abuse.
This topic will be my reference about his mental problems. Considering that he will not stop in his "amazing" theories, I may need this reference many more times.

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December 25, 2019, 12:29:30 PM
 #2

whatever you say! Someone does not want us to be seen in this forum, especially in the global section, to be effective.
I don't see them as ordinary coincidences.
There is a gang that is effective globally. they want all the interests for themselves. there is a mass of supporters who support them but cannot develop yet.
so
- principal ringleaders (these are trying to look like good people)
- shooter
- fans

the forum is under the control of these 3 audiences
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December 25, 2019, 12:56:59 PM
Last edit: December 25, 2019, 05:05:40 PM by johhnyUA
 #3

"Yes, you are pretty much allowed to tag anyone you like, for every reason you like  Roll Eyes"
                                                                                               (c) marlboroza, 2019 AD (from here)



My first feedback was left to this "person" before any of his "investigations", for his very bad attitude for trolling people.
Example:
This person like to troll other people, for example he created topic which called Craig Wrigth Satoshi and didn't delete it after my explanation post

But after a few question why i tagged person for supporting of Craig, i changed my feedback. And it's highly accurate in everything in it.
This person, for example, accuses chimk (one of the most honests and trusted members of russian local board) to many times. Here is proof in English, you can read it by yourself:

1. First topic
It's called "Total corruption in Russian local [DT involved!]"

Where he tries to accuse many trusted russian local members in protecting serial scammer (it is his catchphrase  Cheesy )
After that topic, xtraelv distrasted him for some time.
Here is quotes from this topic:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5148832.msg51273724#msg51273724
archive

Looks like you have a bit of a dislike for chimk for calling you out for your Craig Wright support.

Because you personally attack the DTs that have responded to you - they react less than favorable to you. You have failed to provide solid evidence against respected members of this forum. In your thread you allege that there is "total corruption involving DTs"

That is not "defending a scammer". It is a reaction to you acting like an asshole.

These cheaters turned out to be friends of many DT members from Ru local, so there was an amazing discussion - about how good they are, about which idea to come up with so that it will be possible to forgive them. Moreover, many participants in the discussion at first simply denied the obvious facts with "arguments" as: i do not see/do not understand.

I've read the discussion. You're exaggerating. There is a lively discussion going on about be.open's value to the forum and forgiveness, not unlike theymos suggested we should be doing for lesser transgressions. It's starting to look like every time a discussion doesn't go your way you run to the English boards looking for non-Russian speaking DTs to inflame the conflict. There is a precedent for a "friends and family" lenience in similar cases so it's far from a "Ru local" conspiracy as you'd like us to believe.

And I have nothing to add to this:


tl;dr: complain to theymos directly or shut up already.

And of course, chimk (not me, as you see) make a really good posts where he showed all rotten nature of this person, everyone should read this - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5156668.msg52783096#msg52783096

I ll give here a little shot piece of this:
About Craig - I call him scamer, that's a fact.

About my bitcoin criticism - i am a real crypto enthusiast, so naturally I want to make the system better. What is needed for that? See the flaws and fix them. This is the criticism.
Naturally, with such a position, I can have nothing in common with fiat slaves - they dream only about one thing - about the growth of Bitcoin (fiat price) and about its sale.
90% of ru local users are fiat slaves, participants of ICO scams and ponzi schemes - they are fake crypto-enthusiasts.

KTChampions repeatedly calls Bitcoin a financial pyramid fraud and compares it with the famous criminal pyramids of Russia, for example, MMM.

...
Кoкpeтнo битoк пpaктичecки вceгдa oцeнивaл кaк cкaм. B кaкoe-тo вpeмя был oптимизм в цeлoм к кpиптe, oн и ceйчac ecть в oпpeдeлeнныx нaпpaвлeнияx, нo тoчнo нe в "тpyкpиптaнcкиx" кoтopыe гpeзят зapaбoткoм в фиaтe и пoбeдe нaд фиaтoм Grin
translation - ...specifically Bitcoin, almost always rated as scam....
http://archive.md/zlITq

...
Я и нe гoвopю чтo биткoин - пyзыpь, этo пиpaмидa.
...

translation - I’m not saying that Bitcoin is a bubble, it is a pyramid.
http://archive.md/90dS9

...
T.e. я yтвepждaю чтo биткoин этo пиpaмидa, гдe пpибыль пepвыx yчacтникoв oбecпeчивaeтcя зa cчeт пocлeдyющиx и oнa в итoгe pyxнeт.
...
transfer - I affirm that Bitcoin is a pyramid where the profits of the first participants are ensured by the subsequent ones and it will eventually collapse

http://archive.md/1hC9u

...
Зaчeм мнe этo? Я пoкaзывaю cooтвeтcтвиe биткoинa пиpaмидe.
...
translation - Why do I need it? I show the correspondence of Bitcoin to the pyramid.

http://archive.md/RqHIa

crypto enthusiast.... Grin


Людeй жeлaющиx зapaбoтaть (нa xaлявy или тpyдoм тяжeлым) я oчeнь yвaжaю. Этo aдeквaтныe и paзyмныe люди - c ними пpиятнo имeть дeлo.
A вoт тaк нaзывaeмыe энтyзиacты, кoтopыe "зapaди вceгo движeния кpиптoвaлют, a нe paди нaживы" этo для мeня дypaчки пpямo cкaжy, либo eщe xyжe - мoшeнники пoд дypaчкoв кocящиe. C тaкими лyчшe дeлa нe имeть, либo фикcиpoвaть pиcки иx "энтyзиaзмa".

translation - calls enthusiastic fools or scammers.
http://archive.md/LaA9i

So, as you see, this person is lying

Here is proof from this topic:
By July 27th, questions on Smart Man and markiz73 were closed by me.
On July 29th, I accuse him of botofarming.
In response, he leaves me feedback on the events of May 29th (for some reason, this did not bother him before).
I publish the topic that he is a bounty cheater, it is still July 29th.
In January, he gets into DT2.

My first feedback was earlier than his "investigation" in some hours. Here is proof:
My post was before your shit topic  Smiley
July 29, 2019, 09:36:17 PM - my post
And your shittopic was created July 29, 2019, 10:48:35 PM. It looks like you trying to catch me  Grin
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5169264.msg52014120#msg52014120)

And what he responded to that:
My topic is the result of the investigation based on this message July 29, 2019, 01:02:59 PM. I noticed that you have the same behavior with another bot and I wrote about it openly. And you began to actively pursue me.

But now he lying (again and again) that my first trust post was after his investigations.

2. Second topic
Whis is called Supporting of shitposting by merit source is it trustworthy?
It's funny topic, because maggot KTC used "broken phone" technique: he translated many quotes out of context with wrong translation.
Here is quotes from it (not from me, from a trusted members of english local):

It's "balls", not "eggs", and the rest of your out-of-context-poorly-translated accusation is not much better either.


Yep, those posts aren't merit-worthy, but that's my opinion.

They're completely out of context. This for example:

LocalBitcoins yбpaлa вoзмoжнocть пoкyпки и пpoдaжи кpиптoвaлюты зa нaличныe пpи личнoй вcтpeчe

нoвocть нa фoклoгe? пpoвepял ктo?
интepecнo пo кaкoй-тo кoнкpeтнoй cтpaнe или пo вceм?
Пo вceм .  Teпepь этo пpocтo цeнтpaлизoвaнный OTC  c дилдoй - мoжнo xopoнить .

Was an answer to a question. IMO deserves the one merit. The OP made it sound like some nonsense post.

Many other examples are missing quotes too, plus the awful translation, plus you have to keep in mind that many of these come from the Russian equivalent of the Wall Observer thread - context matters a lot there.

Don't fall for the OP's dirty tricks. chimk is an excellent merit source.

I quoted words that were written by those who received merit. It is a fact. What a person quotes does not apply to the content that he produces. The context of the messages can be checked by anyone, this is open information and I have provided links to it.

I checked and you're full of shit.

And again, here is highly merited answer of chimk, where he made two important statements:

First, about trolls in russian local:
I think in each local section, there are users who do not like Bitcoin and criticize it, giving different definitions. In the Russian section, people who “criticize” bitcoin also periodically appear. Recently, very active in this
KTChampions, fxpc and of course amaclin1. They appear in active topics where bitcoin is discussed and with pressure, sometimes in a rude form, they begin to give the “arguments” to the failure of btc, sometimes with insults. For example, KTChampions likes to call the Bitcoin pyramid, the community Bitcoin sectarians and freaks.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5150471.msg51350186#msg51350186

KTChampions created the "Coздaтeль биткoинa o btc." He calls Crag Wright the creator of BTC and his manifesto is in the subject.

fxpc likes to call Bitcoin "digital emptiness", a pyramid, a community sectarian. The possibility of an attack of 51%, argues that the owners of large pools will come with soldering irons and torture will force them to make an attack. Shocked
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4871955.msg51134751#msg51134751
with amaclin1, you probably know each other.

And second, which is more important. because this was the same with me - at first i was very polite to KTChampion in disscussions of Bitcoin, but one moment (after tons of trolling and speculating from him) i realized that this is rotten person, bad person with bad intents. And now i'm like me now.

I argued a lot with these gentlemen and other users of the Russian section also argued. About a month ago, they began to make ridiculous, unsubstantiated charges. The last accusation that I am a corrupt source of merit, they called me in the Russian section. I saw some objective reviews in Russian

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105163.msg51693656#msg51693656
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105163.msg51688078#msg51688078
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105163.msg51689108#msg51689108

Now KTChampions has come to the English section again, using the language barrier to manipulate the facts and distort them. I can report on every accusation message. They are taken out of context, they do not convey the nature of communication and the personality of the author and other specific nuances. Let me tell you a little about my work on the distribution of merit.

So, as you see, this person is manipulating facts and loves dirty tactics



About this:
Quote
marlboroza   2019-10-02      Personal note: user sent me unsolicited PM and accused my grandpa of being ustaša. Don't interact with this user in any way.

I wrote it while i was in very bad mood (and little drunk), and marlboroza wrote something bitter about bob123's feedback in my trust. And i wrote him a PM where accuses his grandfather.
Some hours after, (before even his feedback) i understood that i've done very bad things, because i stepped back from one of my life rules: "don't do to others what you don't want to receive by yourself"

I tried to write PM to him with apologies, but was added to blacklist  Cry Soooooooooo, to make my soul clean, i resend apologies to myself (i know, really weird)
Just want to ask sorry about my previous PM. I was after bar and was a little drunk (just a little) and your post about false feedback in my trust made me enugh angry. Sometimes we all can fall into such conditions. In fact I want to do it from morning but day was enough hard i don't have any chance till now.

P.S: I don't want to recall your feedback or anything, just want to keep my soul and mind clear

So, marlboroza, i want to apologies before your grandfather. And I am pleased that now i have such opportunity. Now my soul is really clean  Cheesy



About "bounty cheating". It's another false accusation, but bob123 tagged me. After he didn't want to recall his feedback due to ordinary logic, i showed him personal correspondence of me and my friend in Telegram. He removed his feedback and here his quote:

While the screenhots do not absolutely proof that this is not your alt yet.. i still believe that it would be highly unprobable.

It might still be possible that you have texted some other friend of you, but this seems very unlikely.

I removed the rating on both accounts.



About Theymos: this is my personal assumption (this maggot created another out-of-context quote, and show me in a weird light). My post was like this
Oпять тaки, мoжeт cкaтывaюcь в кoнcпиpoлoгию, нo кaжeтcя чтo этo нeкaя пoлyпoдcoзнaтeльнaя идeя Teймoca. Чтoбы пoтoм дeнeжки oт фopyмa ceбe зaбpaть. И пpeдпoлoжeниe нe нa пycтoм мecтe, a иcxoдя из мнoгиx пoдoзpитeльныx фaктopoв.

And this his quote was explanation why i think so. ( i don't checked it, maybe it's poorly translated as with quotes in topic Supporting of shitposting by merit source is it trustworthy?, so, here in link for my message in russian, check it by yourself - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105163.msg53274734#msg53274734)



Conclusion and few words after:

So, i don't know what to add to all this. If you think, that this behavior is trustworthy (to lie, to accuse trusted and honest members, to try to make a carrier through bodies (meaning "идти чepeз гoлoвы/идти пo тpyпaм" famous catchphrase in russian) then distrast me and be happy of your life. I'm not afraid of that. I know here some good persons, i communicate with them and trying to get knowledge about cryptocurrencies.

And you can see, how difference our way of acting: this maggot is reaally full of butthurt about my feedback, and can't stay calm. Just creating more drama.
While i don't fucking care about mine red feedback from bob123 (after two-four days of butthurt of course. But now i'm like a japanesse lake with flowers, calm and unshakable). Because i'm here not for trust wars and i'm not interested in getting "power to rule them all"


All my life i living as honest person, and i hate three thing in people: lying, manipulating, hypocrizy. All this three things is in KTChampion. So, it's obvious that i don't like him. And will never change. I will keep tagging liars, cryptohaters and trolls. This is my view of life, tho.

This was respond, i will not feed a troll so think all this by yours brain. I'm out (maybe i will answer to some questions of normal users, but i'm not sure

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December 25, 2019, 01:51:36 PM
 #4

My first feedback was left to this "person" before any of his "investigations", for his very bad attitude for trolling people.

An amazing lie - amazing with its dullness. You left me your first feedback on July 29th.
The investigation about markiz73 was completed on July 26th.

Once again you are caught in a lie  Smiley

This person like to troll other people, for example he created topic which called Craig Wrigth Satoshi and didn't delete it after my explanation post

Old lie, proofs here.

1. First topic
It's called "Total corruption in Russian local [DT involved!]"

Where he tries to accuse many trusted russian local members in protecting serial scammer (it is his catchphrase  Cheesy )
~
So, as you see, this person is lying

Everyone can see how the topic began and how it ended (spoiler: adequate users changed their minds in the process).
As for the "serial scammer" - how should I call the user who confessed to:

1.) Mass account trading.
2.) Merit abuse.
3.) Bumping /shilling.
4.) Offering bumping service.
5.) Plagiarism (many accounts from his farms are banned for plagiarism).
6.) Participation in the obvious scam projects.
7.) Account farming.

and was tagged and banned?
Yes, Smart man is a serial scammer and was caught by me.


2. Second topic
Whis is called Supporting of shitposting by merit source is it trustworthy?
It's funny topic, because maggot KTC used "broken phone" technique: he translated many quotes out of context with wrong translation.~

It's "balls", not "eggs", and the rest of your out-of-context-poorly-translated accusation is not much better either.
Why not bells?  Wink
In any case, you can check everything yourself. It is a pity that you did not do this in the previous topic, everything ended up very interesting.

Many other examples are missing quotes too, plus the awful translation, plus you have to keep in mind that many of these come from the Russian equivalent of the Wall Observer thread - context matters a lot there. Don't fall for these tricks.
I quoted words that were written by those who received merit. It is a fact. What a person quotes does not apply to the content that he produces. The context of the messages can be checked by anyone, this is open information and I have provided links to it.

Another exaggeration from johhnyUA and in any way not a trust case.


About this:
Quote
marlboroza   2019-10-02      Personal note: user sent me unsolicited PM and accused my grandpa of being ustaša. Don't interact with this user in any way.

I wrote it while i was in very bad mood (and little drunk), and marlboroza wrote something bitter about bob123's feedback in my trust. And i wrote him a PM where accuses his grandfather.
Some hours after, (before even his feedback) i understood that i've done very bad things, because i stepped back from one of my life rules: "don't do to others what you don't want to receive by yourself"

I tried to write PM to him with apologies, but was added to blacklist  Cry Soooooooooo, to make my soul clean, i resend apologies to myself (i know, really weird)
Just want to ask sorry about my previous PM. I was after bar and was a little drunk (just a little) and your post about false feedback in my trust made me enugh angry. Sometimes we all can fall into such conditions. In fact I want to do it from morning but day was enough hard i don't have any chance till now.

P.S: I don't want to recall your feedback or anything, just want to keep my soul and mind clear

So, marlboroza, i want to apologies before your grandfather. And I am pleased that now i have such opportunity. Now my soul is really clean  Cheesy

Great tactic - justify your actions "I was in a bad mood and drunk"  Grin
And of course, the hypocritical Joni decided to apologize when the sum of the facts showed his abuses and inappropriate behavior.
He does this only because he is trying to get out of an unpleasant situation for him.

About Theymos: this is my personal assumption (this maggot created another out-of-context quote, and show me in a weird light). My post was like this
Oпять тaки, мoжeт cкaтывaюcь в кoнcпиpoлoгию, нo кaжeтcя чтo этo нeкaя пoлyпoдcoзнaтeльнaя идeя Teймoca. Чтoбы пoтoм дeнeжки oт фopyмa ceбe зaбpaть. И пpeдпoлoжeниe нe нa пycтoм мecтe, a иcxoдя из мнoгиx пoдoзpитeльныx фaктopoв.

And this his quote was explanation why i think so. ( i don't checked it, maybe it's poorly translated as with quotes in topic Supporting of shitposting by merit source is it trustworthy?, so, here in link for my message in russian, check it by yourself - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105163.msg53274734#msg53274734)

Hahaha  Grin
Do not try to escape from this topic, liar. Give us your version of the translation and everyone will see what you mean.

And I ask everyone to note that Johnny did not comment on his mental problems with nationalities - this is his sore subject and he can not object to anything here.

So, i don't know what to add to all this. If you think, that this behavior is trustworthy (to lie, to accuse trusted and honest members, to try to make a carrier through bodies (meaning "идти чepeз гoлoвы/идти пo тpyпaм" famous catchphrase in russian) then distrast me and be happy of your life. I'm not afraid of that. I know here some good persons, i communicate with them and trying to get knowledge about cryptocurrencies.

Oh, it seems the caught abuser and the liar wants to get pity from someone who saw his abuse, how cute  Roll Eyes
Note: when he talks about "a carrier through bodies" he means those big scammers that I caught.
Broken logic. I catch them for violations, and the accusation of a career on this is complete nonsense (what kind of career can be here? I just make the forum cleaner).


And you can see, how difference our way of acting: this maggot is reaally full of butthurt about my feedback, and can't stay calm. Just creating more drama.

I only show the fact of trust abuse. And I am calm. But how calm you are, everyone can check by reading your feedback about me or other users  Smiley

All my life i living as honest person, and i hate three thing in people: lying, manipulating, hypocrizy. All this three things is in KTChampion. So, it's obvious that i don't like him. And will never change. I will keep tagging liars, cryptohaters and trolls. This is my view of life, tho.

This was respond, i will not feed a troll so think all this by yours brain. I'm out (maybe i will answer to some questions of normal users, but i'm not sure

Another lie and an attempt to evade discussion.
Even with respect to bounty cheating, you indirectly admitted that you have alts, I'm not talking about other nonsense "I lived honestly all my life."  Cheesy

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December 25, 2019, 02:07:07 PM
 #5

Looks like we need a notary to make signed & apostilled translation. Though I doubt that even this would be helpful. He won't recognize it anyway.

Darkness isn't born, you know. It's created.
ETH/ETC: 0x8d35067233605bef6069191ae0922d134ff80d48 BTC: 33SFo5G24cp7ZKevuqc8xjKmKJyq5eWrvW
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December 25, 2019, 02:14:09 PM
 #6

Looks like we need a notary to make signed & apostilled translation. Though I doubt that even this would be helpful. He won't recognize it anyway.
Johnny will lie to the last. Perhaps I will ask madnessteat as a participant in that conversation to verify or correct the translation.

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December 25, 2019, 05:16:51 PM
 #7

"Yes, you are pretty much allowed to tag anyone you like, for every reason you like  Roll Eyes"
                                                                                               (c) marlboroza, 2019 AD
Yep, it is correct, take a look:

It is allowed, but please don't just blindly use my words to justify your actions whenever it suits you. Anyway, apology accepted.
And of course, the hypocritical Joni decided to apologize when the sum of the facts showed his abuses and inappropriate behavior.
He does this only because he is trying to get out of an unpleasant situation for him.
He did mention that he tried to send me PM and IIRC I ignored him immediately after PM so he might be telling the truth. You still have to say why do you think this is trust abuse, you indeed accused some members without any proof, while I personally wouldn't send (in most cases) feedback for this, other users might and will do it.

Side note, your signature, personal text and avatar are contradicting each other.

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December 25, 2019, 05:19:32 PM
 #8

Looks like we need a notary to make signed & apostilled translation. Though I doubt that even this would be helpful. He won't recognize it anyway.
Johnny will lie to the last. Perhaps I will ask madnessteat as a participant in that conversation to verify or correct the translation.

I don't like to take part in such disputes because they don't concern me. I'm neutral with both johhnyUA and KTChampions.
johhnyUA for his knowledge of Bitcoin and KTChampions for his investigations.

I always thought that johhnyUA had a negative attitude towards detectives who are investigating the Abuzers and the negative feedback left to them. That day I decided to ask him why he has such an attitude to such work, because in my opinion it is as useful for the forum as writing useful content.

He told me that the cleanups were not going well. Intelligent users are being cleaned up now for obvious and sometimes fictional reasons.

In his opinion, it makes no sense to clean a room in which, as he says, no one will live. I understand he believes that users who share useful information should have leniency in reputation issues.

I'll try to translate a part of our conversation. I apologize to native English speakers if I make any mistakes.



Кaзaлocь бы пoчeмy пoльзoвaтeль фopyмa, кoтopый caм гoвopит, чтo фopyм пpeвpaтилcя в гoвнo, нeгaтивнo oтнocитcя к зaчиcткaм?

Пoтoмy чтo зaчиcтки нe тoгo идyт. Ceйчac идyт зaчиcтки тoлкoвыx пoльзoвaтeлeй, пo явным a инoгдa и выдyмaнным пpичинaм, гдe тo тaкиe кaк в cвoe вpeмя cдeлaл inbzin. A нaдo швoндepaм cвoй 37й, кoгдa пoлoвины "чиcтильщикoв" нe cтaнeт.

Кaким бы гpaмoтным нe был cпeциaлиcт, нe вaжнo пo кpиптe или cтaнкaм, oн дoлжeн пoнимaть, чтo бeз пoдaвлeния aбyзepoв, мoшeнникoв и пpoчиx, пpичeм нe вaжнo кaкиx, знaкoмыx, дpyзeй, пpocтo xopoшиx coбeceдникoв, фopyм никoгдa нe бyдeт нopмaльным.

Здecь пo xoдy вce, швax. Пocлeдняя cтaдия - caмoцeнзypa, кoгдa в пoдкopкy зaгaняютcя кaкиe тo yбeждeния и в дaльнeйшeм тoлькo тaк и дyмaeшь. Кaк coлдaты вepмaxтa - "Tut mir leid, es ist nur Order"

Здecь нa caмoм дeлe пoднимaeтcя вoпpoc: зaчeм чиcтить пoмeщeниe в кoтopoм никтo нe бyдeт жить? Tы видeл yбopщикoв в зaбpoшeнныx дoмax? Я - нeт. Moжeт кoгдa тo изoбpeтyт кoнeчнo poбoтoв кoтopыe бyдyт чиcтить oбитaлия людeй дaжe пocлe иx иcчeзнoвeния, нo пoкa никтo тaкoй бecмыccлeнoй paбoтoй нe зaнимaeтcя. Boт и здecь тaк: пoчиcтим фopyм, a нaпoлнять eгo нeкoмy бyдeт. Maкcимyм вoт бyдeм тeмы пepeвoдить, и caми ceбя мepитить. И пepeвoдить тeмы бyдyт тex людeй кoгo выгнaли нa peддит, в тeлeгpaмм, битcмeдия и пpoчиe мecтa.

Oпять тaки, мoжeт cкaтывaюcь в кoнcпиpoлoгию, нo кaжeтcя чтo этo нeкaя пoлyпoдcoзнaтeльнaя идeя Teймoca. Чтoбы пoтoм дeнeжки oт фopyмa ceбe зaбpaть. И пpeдпoлoжeниe нe нa пycтoм мecтe, a иcxoдя из мнoгиx пoдoзpитeльныx фaктopoв.

I'll try to translate a part of our conversation. I apologize to native English speakers if I make any mistakes.


Why would it seem that a forum user who says that the forum has turned into a shitty negative attitude to sweeps?

Because the sweeps aren't going well. There's a cleanup of smart users now for obvious and sometimes fictional reasons~

No matter how competent the expert is, no matter how important it is on cryptovalues or machines, he must understand that without suppressing the Abuzers, fraudsters forum will never be normal, and it does not matter who will be these Abuzers acquaintances, friends or just good conversations.

~ This is the last stage of self-censorship, when some beliefs are corrupted and you think so only in the future. Like Wehrmacht soldiers - "Tut mir leid, es ist nur Order"

This actually raises the question: why clean a room where no one will live? Have you seen janitors in abandoned houses? I haven't. Maybe someday they will invent robots that will clean people's homes even after they disappear, but so far nobody has done such senseless work. Here's how it is: we'll clean the forum, and no one will fill it. At most, we will translate the topics, and send their own merits. And translate topics will be those people who were kicked out on the reddit, in telegram, Bitsmedia and other places.

Again, I may be sliding into conspiracy, but it seems like some kind of semi-conscious idea by theymos. So I can take the money from the forum back later. And the assumption isn't empty, but based on many suspicious factors.

johhnyUA, KTChampions, Please correct me if I have made any mistakes.


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December 25, 2019, 05:33:56 PM
 #9

You still have to say why do you think this is trust abuse, you indeed accused some members without any proof, while I personally wouldn't send (in most cases) feedback for this, other users might and will do it.

This is a forum where free speech is allowed, isn’t it? I have openly expressed my accusations and am ready to discuss any of them. But I did not leave red tags only on the basis of my opinion. Leaving red tags not related to trust cases is an abuse if you are in DT.

~
I'll try to translate a part of our conversation. I apologize to native English speakers if I make any mistakes.

~
Again, I may be sliding into conspiracy, but it seems like some kind of semi-conscious idea by theymos. So I can take the money from the forum back later. And the assumption isn't empty, but based on many suspicious factors.

johhnyUA, KTChampions, Please correct me if I have made any mistakes.


Thank you for your responsiveness. The translation is good.
There is one inaccuracy:

Quote
Oпять тaки, мoжeт cкaтывaюcь в кoнcпиpoлoгию, нo кaжeтcя чтo этo нeкaя пoлyпoдcoзнaтeльнaя идeя Teймoca. Чтoбы пoтoм дeнeжки oт фopyмa ceбe зaбpaть. И пpeдпoлoжeниe нe нa пycтoм мecтe, a иcxoдя из мнoгиx пoдoзpитeльныx фaктopoв.
Quote
Again, I may be sliding into conspiracy, but it seems like some kind of semi-conscious idea by theymos. So I can take the money from the forum back later. And the assumption isn't empty, but based on many suspicious factors.

In the second sentence there is no "Я" - "I". There, this word is missing because it is assumed that theymos wants to steal the money from the forum, but not Joni.

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December 25, 2019, 06:07:47 PM
 #10

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I have no idea in hell what you're talking about here, but it looks like just another anti-DT rant on your part, so I'll let it waft through each eye and out my nose as usual.

OP, based on what JohhnyUA wrote in your feedback it doesn't really appear to be justified.  It looks like he just doesn't agree with your assessments on a few matters, which sort of comes down to a matter of opinion--and leaving somebody a neg based on that isn't what Theymos wants the trust system used for.  I don't know if anyone was falsely accused, because I haven't looked into the matter and haven't even read the entire OP here but you ought to be free to express your opinions and that includes calling out scams as you see them.  If something isn't actually a scam, the accused should make their case and let the community decide on it.

When it comes to making false accusations, people should really have more of a spine about that sort of thing.  I don't know how many times I've been slandered, and if you look at my trust page members have accused me of a lot of things I didn't do.  And you'll note that I haven't retaliated with red trust or even made a big deal out of it. 

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December 25, 2019, 06:57:05 PM
 #11

--and leaving somebody a neg based on that isn't what Theymos wants the trust system used for.
Have most of you guys forgot the lessening of the guidelines post the introduction of the flag system? Yes, you can now leave negatives for many more things (and no, it isn't abuse/misuse like it was before - to a lesser extent now). It is the flag system that's for scams nowadays, and the trust system for more "opinionated-things".

but it looks like just another anti-DT rant on your part
Completely agreed.

These walls of text aren't helping.

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December 25, 2019, 07:18:34 PM
 #12

I don't know a whole lot about the background of either user here or their activities, but upon summary review of left trust ratings, it seems to me both parties are being frivolous and or abusive of the trust system. Without condemning KTChampions here, not knowing much about their activities, it seems they are using the trust system to leave ratings related to forum rules, which really should be reported and handled by staff and not be dealt with using the trust system.

johhnyUA, while I agree with his general consensus that there are cliques of users controlling the trust system here and purposefully keeping certain individuals and groups out, his use of the trust system here is not what it is intended for and is largely counterproductive to his stated goals. At the end of the day you are just abusing the trust system in the polar opposite way.

All of this said, you are each technically free to leave these ratings for whatever reason you decide, but the uses I see here are antithetical to the purpose of the trust system and the cohesion of this community in general. The trust system is supposed to be a way to help warn users of and prevent theft and fraud. These uses are counterproductive to those goals on both sides.

I would advise johhnyUA to remove these ratings and make his grievances via public discussion. While I disagree with KTChampion's use of the trust system, I find the types who take it upon themselves to be forum police most often are unwilling to change their behavior. The only effective method of combating this is public discussion of the damages it causes, not by using the trust system to fight out these battles.


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December 25, 2019, 07:33:34 PM
 #13

OP, based on what JohhnyUA wrote in your feedback it doesn't really appear to be justified.  It looks like he just doesn't agree with your assessments on a few matters, which sort of comes down to a matter of opinion--and leaving somebody a neg based on that isn't what Theymos wants the trust system used for.  I don't know if anyone was falsely accused, because I haven't looked into the matter and haven't even read the entire OP here but you ought to be free to express your opinions and that includes calling out scams as you see them.  If something isn't actually a scam, the accused should make their case and let the community decide on it.

When it comes to making false accusations, people should really have more of a spine about that sort of thing.  I don't know how many times I've been slandered, and if you look at my trust page members have accused me of a lot of things I didn't do.  And you'll note that I haven't retaliated with red trust or even made a big deal out of it. 

Thank you for your opinion. I agree with you and this is not a complete list of things that scammers whom I investigated or their friends accuse me of.
Naturally, these feedback do not seriously bother me, but I was forced to make this post as a single place for all references - since troll Joni writes nonsense here and there.

I would advise johhnyUA to remove these ratings and make his grievances via public discussion. While I disagree with KTChampion's use of the trust system, I find the types who take it upon themselves to be forum police most often are unwilling to change their behavior. The only effective method of combating this is public discussion of the damages it causes, not by using the trust system to fight out these battles.

This is a completed stage. He lose all his discussions with me. That is why he left feedback "in favor" of third parties (who themselves did not leave me any feedbacks, and I did not leave any feedbacks to them).

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December 25, 2019, 07:57:45 PM
 #14

While I disagree with KTChampions quite often, I don't think he deserves red trust. The key part of red trust is "high risk". None of the the things mentioned in johhnyUA's feedback represent high risk. They do represent a significant difference in opinions, which should not be basis for red trust.

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December 25, 2019, 08:47:56 PM
 #15

Judging by a specific message from johhnyUA, he doesn't trust KTChampions feedbacks. For such cases, the option (~) exists.

List the users who you trust to have good trust ratings and good trust lists, one user per line. Prefix a user's name with a tilde (~) if you want to exclude them from your trust network. <...>

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December 26, 2019, 12:58:24 PM
Last edit: December 26, 2019, 01:09:05 PM by johhnyUA
 #16

I would advise johhnyUA to remove these ratings and make his grievances via public discussion. While I disagree with KTChampion's use of the trust system, I find the types who take it upon themselves to be forum police most often are unwilling to change their behavior. The only effective method of combating this is public discussion of the damages it causes, not by using the trust system to fight out these battles.

Despite some of your ideas is close to me (for example this post in politics and society about guns and trust) i can't perform your advise. Let me tell you why

Also this will be answer for this post:
While I disagree with KTChampions quite often, I don't think he deserves red trust. The key part of red trust is "high risk". None of the the things mentioned in johhnyUA's feedback represent high risk. They do represent a significant difference in opinions, which should not be basis for red trust.

There is not "difference in opinions". Difference in opinion is when you with your friend can't come to consensus what to eat: burgers or pizza. Or when two people decide which is better - communism or capitalism.

When someone lying and manipulating, blames someone in "protecting scammers" without any proof, you can't consider it as "difference in opinion".

Lying in most cultures (except meybe some african and pacific indians) is forbidden. If you lied and were catched on it, mark "liar" will be with you for all your life. In some times, mark would be with you, and your tongue - not (it would be torn out of your mouth).

Even today, in many european and some tates in USA you can be called in court for slander. And it could end for you sometimes in jail. Why so? It's easy to answer: because with false slander ("he is rapist, he is murder, he is thief!) you left someone under a threat. Under threat of imprisonment,  under the threat of reputation loss.
So, if in real life you must bear some consequences for your false slander, why it shouldn't be here?

Also, there three main points why feedback is still correct and will not remove that.

1 First: This person keep lying

(and will keep doing that forever, i don't know any liar who stopped to lie by himself)

2. Second:
He did not apologize before me, chimk, other users whom he accused to be a "corrupted" and "protectors of scammer"
here is an example of adequate apologize:

Quote from: Zuzma
After reading the opinions of different users, I came to the conclusion that my allegations of merit abuse of distribution are not fair.
Therefore, I apologize to those whom I offended.
and close this topic

3. Third: It's very often that someone tagged troll for lying. Example:

Quote
owlcatz   2019-12-06      keeps spreading lies and hatred. Piece of shit user. Avoid lol.
Quote
mindrust   2019-12-04      This guy is on some illegal hard drugs. Crackhead.
Quote
yogg   2019-04-27      Delusional troll ; spreading lies and harassing staff to enforce the rules he finds more suited for the forum.
Quote
1miau   2019-04-14   Reference   Tried to ruin the reputation of forum members - failed badly. However, I would not trust a single word of this user.
From this user trust

And as a final touch to the portrait of this person, is the fact that he is real bitcoin hater.
And it's not forbidden to tag someone because he helps to shill Bitcoin SV (as KTC did with his shitty topic "Creator of BTC about BTC" which ended with signature "Craig Wright").

For example, feedbacks from gmaxwell - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=11425
Quote
gmaxwell   2019-06-16   Reference   Promoting the fraudulent claim that scammer Craig Wright created bitcoin and pumping wright's token. This person is either a shill or an idiot, and in either case unsafe to trade with.

Chimk said about that, of course:
Чтo этo зa дepьмo? Teмa - "Coздaтeль биткoинa o BTC." Bнизy пoдпиcь Crag Wright.
http://archive.md/p93MD

Bы вoбщe в кypce, чтo тaкoe cпocoбнo дeзopиeнтиpoвaть нeoпытныx людeй и ввecти в зaблyждeниe и пpoизoйдёт этo c вaшeй пoдaчи? я дoлгo paзмycoливaть нe бyдy..

Of course, this topic can disorientate newbies, like "Wow, so Craig Wright is real Satoshi, so Bitcoin SV is real bitcoin. I will buy some bitcoin SV, to teh Mhoooooooooon!!1"
And this maggot don't fucking care about it, he will just laugh if something like that would happen, because his words - bitcoin scam and we all - sectarians.

The key part of red trust is "high risk"

Lying + manipulating + trolling + bitcoin hating = enough reason to think that this user is high risk in monetary terms to any user of Bitcoin forum.


The trust system is supposed to be a way to help warn users of and prevent theft and fraud. These uses are counterproductive to those goals on both sides.

So, my feedback's main purpose - to warn users. I used red paint because of obvious reasons - people will read move attentively (as you know, all important signs on the road or on electric transformer in the city is mostly red or orange paint).

Afterwords:
I like some of you, some of you i don't like and maybe think that you're acting like assholes sometime, but i not tagged KTChampions for one reason. I tagged him for full complex of reasons, which together makes him dangerous to any user of this forum. That's my opinion.

KTChampions == The-One-Above-All if the last one would started to investigate bounty cheaters and scams. (my view)

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December 26, 2019, 01:21:29 PM
 #17

~
When someone lying and manipulating, blames someone in "protecting scammers" without any proof, you can't consider it as "difference in opinion".

Lying in most cultures (except meybe some african and pacific indians) is forbidden. If you lied and were catched on it, mark "liar" will be with you for all your life. In some times, mark would be with you, and your tongue - not (it would be torn out of your mouth).
~

What beautiful words, however, Joni again is hypocritical  Roll Eyes

My first feedback was left to this "person" before any of his "investigations", for his very bad attitude for trolling people.

An amazing lie - amazing with its dullness. You left me your first feedback on July 29th.
The investigation about markiz73 was completed on July 26th.

Once again you are caught in a lie  Smiley

As we see, Joni loves to lie, but does not like to answer for his words.

~A standard set of accusations (mostly false) to which I have already answered many times.~
~If anyone is interested in my disputes about bitcoin, shitposting, scammer Crage Wright, scammers in community, etc. then they can read them here here and anywhere on the links. I am ready to answer for every word I say.~

Now back to the questions that Johny for some reason ignores:

1.) Joni hurt his psyche on a national issue. He's a nationalist and pours this shit in Ru local.

Problems with nationalities and nationalism constantly come out of johhnyUA. In Ru local, he writes a lot on this topic (in sections not intended for this). I do not want to drag all this filth and shit here, just a quote:

~
And if the post does not mention Russians or the Russian Federation in a negative way, then it means that it was not johhnyUA who wrote it.

2.) According to Joni theymos wants to steal forum money.

About Theymos: this is my personal assumption (this maggot created another out-of-context quote, and show me in a weird light). My post was like this
Oпять тaки, мoжeт cкaтывaюcь в кoнcпиpoлoгию, нo кaжeтcя чтo этo нeкaя пoлyпoдcoзнaтeльнaя идeя Teймoca. Чтoбы пoтoм дeнeжки oт фopyмa ceбe зaбpaть. И пpeдпoлoжeниe нe нa пycтoм мecтe, a иcxoдя из мнoгиx пoдoзpитeльныx фaктopoв.

And this his quote was explanation why i think so. ( i don't checked it, maybe it's poorly translated as with quotes in topic Supporting of shitposting by merit source is it trustworthy?, so, here in link for my message in russian, check it by yourself - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5105163.msg53274734#msg53274734)

Hahaha  Grin
Do not try to escape from this topic, liar. Give us your version of the translation and everyone will see what you mean.

After madnessteat verified the translation, it’s hard to give up his words, so Joni simply ignores this question. What an honest man  Roll Eyes

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December 27, 2019, 04:34:37 AM
 #18

~

I don't even necessarily disagree with you. The problem is that "lying" is often subjective and is subject to large amounts of interpretation regardless if you are right or not. My opinion on the matter is the ratings you left are counter productive to your own goals, and your fight against these lies would better be served by removing those ratings and simply drawing attention to this abuse via public discussion. You seem to be some what familiar with my history here. I shed no tears for the forum bitstasi. I am speaking only from a position of what I think would honestly help you serve your stated goals here. Right now your abuse of the trust system strips you of any moral authority in the situation, removing those ratings gives you a distinct advantage and would make people much more willing to hear your grievances. That is all. No one can make you do anything, just offering some friendly advice.


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eddie13
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December 27, 2019, 06:08:29 AM
 #19

--and leaving somebody a neg based on that isn't what Theymos wants the trust system used for.
Have most of you guys forgot the lessening of the guidelines post the introduction of the flag system? Yes, you can now leave negatives for many more things (and no, it isn't abuse/misuse like it was before - to a lesser extent now). It is the flag system that's for scams nowadays, and the trust system for more "opinionated-things".

Trust flags

you should not use trust ratings to attack a person's opinions
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December 27, 2019, 07:13:32 AM
 #20

--and leaving somebody a neg based on that isn't what Theymos wants the trust system used for.
Have most of you guys forgot the lessening of the guidelines post the introduction of the flag system? Yes, you can now leave negatives for many more things (and no, it isn't abuse/misuse like it was before - to a lesser extent now). It is the flag system that's for scams nowadays, and the trust system for more "opinionated-things".

Trust flags

You should give these ratings for anything which you think would impact someone's willingness to trade with the person, but you should not use trust ratings to attack a person's opinions or otherwise talk about things which would not be relevant to reasonable prospective traders.
FTFY. Anyhow, that's unrelated to my post. I'm only liable for what I say, not for what you understand.

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