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Author Topic: Forum policy regarding Faketoshi  (Read 635 times)
nullius
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January 06, 2020, 09:29:23 PM
Last edit: January 06, 2020, 09:50:41 PM by nullius
 #21

eddie13, fork you!  You forking forker.  I simultaneously laughed aloud, and vomited a little bit in my mouth.

Please link to the Wright photo from which you got that face.  I want to use the same one, and take my own shot at this.  My mind’s eye envisions something to get the message across to people who deeply trust the police, embrace ubiquitous ID checks that “keep people safe”, yet also quote Orwell and brag about how lucky they are to not live in a police state like those nasty Easteurasians.  (I know plenty like that.  How?  Doublethink.)



Maybe I'm warped but I never saw any type of 'threat' in the first place. He's a ludicrous shit heel backed by a pervert who've attached themselves to a fork of a fork.

72 hours ago, I could and would have written that first sentence.

Two seconds of googling would give anyone with a functioning mind an immediate overview of the fountain of diarrhoea they've spouted since turning up.

Two seconds of effort is too much to expect from the average person.  The “functioning mind” part is an assumption which, like Craig Wright’s Satoshihood, is backed by zero evidence and contradicted empirically.

If a supermajority—no, a bare majority—no, even a significant plurality of people had the will and ability to research facts and think for themselves...  If even that plurality cared about freedom...  Then, tyranny in any form would not exist in this world.  Now, take two seconds to look around you.

Contra popular delusions, the “consent of the governed” is not a political theory that must be imposed:  It is a natural reality that is unavoidable, even to the most ambitious of tyrants.  Regardless of iron-fisted tactics, any régime that lacks the consent of the governed will fall within a what is a relatively short span on historical timescales; and it will meanwhile suffer internal instability.  Vide the Soviet Union.  The mere existence of stable, tyrannical régimes that last through the course of generations is proof positive that those tyrannies has at least the tacit, passive consent of the governed.  Collectively, people do get the government that they deserve—much to the dismay of the few dissenters in their midst.

Limiting myself here to only a few issues:  All Western democratic régimes today have slave-level taxation, fiat monetary systems based on debt and inflation, mass surveillance, and all those other lovely features that Bitcoiners oft complain about.  I can summarize these issues in simple terms, in 5 minutes, to anybody who will listen—probably you can, too.  But few will listen, and fewer still will take the mental effort to understand.  (Never mind taking great personal risks, as is necessary to actually change anything.)  Thus do these “features” have the “consent of the governed”.



I have observed that otherwise smart, freethinking people tend to fall into the nearly-universal trap of assuming that others are like them.  I here speak from experience.  Fully escaping that trap requires a level of detached objectivity that almost no one can achieve—perhaps one in ten thousand or fewer.

It’s obvious to you that Craig Wright is a liar, a scammer, etc., etc.  Now, step outside yourself.  Go beyond objectivity:  Get into the heads of millions of grinning idiots happily living on Facebook between obedient daily stints at wage-slavery, and subjectively evaluate the world from their perspectives.

You now have an IQ several standard deviations lower than your own, but that’s the least-important difference.  (IQ is important, generally.  But I know many high-IQ, highly-educated people who are slavishly devoted to the chains that bind them.)  You have a near-total lack of motivation to actually think, especially when your thoughts may reach unhappy conclusions—or worse, when you risk the cognitive dissonance that may result from questioning your pre-existing beliefs.  Happily for you (in the sense of ignorance being bliss), you have a habit of forming “opinions” by copying thoughts which feel like they have social approval.

Congratulations!  You just bought BSV, beaming with sophisticated excitement about how you are on the cutting edge of “cryptos”!  You also nodded your head autonomically, unconsciously, when you saw a TvFacebookYoutube talking face tell you that measures K, Y, and C are needed to protect you from drug-dealing child-pornographic terrorists using Bitcoin on the “darknet”.  Because, tax evasion.

At this juncture, one must descend from the ivory tower, and speak in short, simple, emotionally evocative sentences peppered with smileys—sandwiched between pictures that will melt your heart into a puddle of tears.



gmaxwell’s above post struck me like a lightning bolt, because I did not evaluate it by looking at the world through my own eyes.  I stepped outside myself, then took a hard look at Craig Wright through the eyes of people who are not me.  People who are dumber, less reckful, more careless, and vastly more numerous than I am.

I thereupon concluded that the obvious clown show of BSV is an existential threat to Bitcoin, and to all that Bitcoin stands for.  It was not unlike that moment when you realize that the latest American war based on made-up non-facts is going to happen anyway with millions of people cheering, and somewhere in the world, safely hidden behind the TV screen, people who did nothing wrong are going to get blown to smithereens because of it.

Bitcoin and its community are adaptable to meet and counteract such threats.  But it will not happen if we ignore them.  I observe that in 2017, BCH and S2X failed to destroy Bitcoin through well-funded simultaneous attacks from multiple directions.  I further observe that in 2017, the Bitcoin community was not laughing and brushing it off—people were angry; they saw the threat.

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January 06, 2020, 09:40:32 PM
Last edit: January 06, 2020, 10:09:35 PM by gentlemand
 #22

Two seconds of effort is too much to expect from the average person.  The “functioning mind” part is an assumption which, like Craig Wright’s Satoshihood, is backed by zero evidence and contradicted empirically.

I think that's a teensy bit dismissive of the average person and I myself am an average person.

When I first looked into buying BTC after remembering it it must've been July/August 2013 perhaps. At that point Mt Gox was still the most recommended place by all the major sites though cracks were definitely emerging. I knew effectively nothing about Bitcoin. I spent five minutes reading about Gox and resolved to never, ever, ever touch it no matter what and I wondered what the hell was wrong with anyone who did use it.

That was simply being objective and moderately pacing myself.

If someone does decide they want to buy BSV the first thing they'll discover is that they can't buy it on the most common platforms, the thing called Bitcoin without weird letters that everyone is selling and talking about costs rather a lot more and there are hardly any wallets for it. That should be enough of a clue to look a little deeper.

There's certainly no harm on keeping the visibility of what idiots they all are high but they themselves do an excellent job of it. Literally nothing he has done or said has disproved what the consensus is regarding him.


Bitcoin and its community are adaptable to meet and counteract such threats.  But it will not happen if we ignore them.  I observe that in 2017, BCH and S2X failed to destroy Bitcoin through well-funded simultaneous attacks from multiple directions.  I further observe that in 2017, the Bitcoin community was not laughing and brushing it off—people were angry; they saw the threat.

That was a viable threat. This one is distasteful and pathetic and a pure quasi surreal piss take. That's why it's laughed at.

Mr. Maxwell's view will have a ton more weight and direct experience than mine but that's what it looks like from here at least.

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January 06, 2020, 10:10:19 PM
 #23

Please link to the Wright photo from which you got that face.
https://qz.com/674129/an-australian-nobody-claims-to-be-the-inventor-of-bitcoin-but-no-one-knows-for-sure/

All I really have to say about that is every time I hear a normie say "Their aught to be a law for that" I die a little more inside..
I have had too many debates about more laws VS less laws, and most people seem to think that it is impossible for humans to fend for themselves without a million laws to protect them..
Not to mention the "This should be free, That should be free" types..
People want to end the right to bear arms.. People want to curtail free speech to protect the feelings of the pathetic.. etc. etc.

They don't teach the kids to value freedom and liberty.. They teach the kids to obey authority and that the government can fix anything if they just make more laws and have more control..

I'm 90% clownpilled at this point.. (Not be depressed about the direction of the world but rather give up and just laugh at it)

Even this forum..
I am often blown away by the lack of loyalty to the principles that started all of this (Bitcoin and BitcoinTalk)..
Should just make more rules and it will fix everything..
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January 09, 2020, 12:56:49 AM
Merited by fillippone (2)
 #24

Now-- if you want to argue that various threads aren't very effective and that the community could do better?  I couldn't agree more.

So, I am taking the hint, and implementing a strategy upon these of my principles:

The most effective way of telling people what Bitcoin is not, is to start with a better positive statement of what Bitcoin is.

First principle:  Say what you are, before you say what you’re against.  The positive is the reason for the negative, and not vice versa.

I am not anti-BSV as a cause:  I am anti-BSV as an effect, because I am pro-Bitcoin.  I love Bitcoin.  I hate those who attack, steal, degrade, defile, and destroy that which I love.  Therefore, I am anti-BSV.

That is the principle of the matter; and people’s reactions will be consistent with that principle.  If some member of the public who knows nothing about these issues just sees you making accusations against Craig Wright, then no matter how many facts you have on your side, he may feel that you are just yelling.  It perversely makes criminals look like victims; well, who knows, maybe you are just jealous of “Dr.” Wright.  But if you first explain that you are passionate about something that will make the world a better place, and then you shout from the rooftops that Craig Wright is lying scammer who is trying to hijack and wreck a good thing by literally stealing the identity of its creator, then people will understand why you are angry.  And they should thus understand why they should be angry, too.

I am only one obscure thinker.  All I can do is to urge others to action, share ideas, and, I should hope, inspire everybody to come together in an organized effort with a positive direction.  “...the community could do better?”  Yes, I think so; and I am acting on that, with the vision that others will stand with me, act with me, and come together as a community to take a stand here—then, organizing here, expanding the campaign to other forums, to social media, to “IRL” scenarios in business, in investing, at technical conferences, in everyday life—if necessary, in courtrooms—in every venue, on every potential battleground where this issue may arise.  Not only as a reaction to Craig Wright:  As a positive Bitcoin culture, a culture that can be shared even by people who agree on nothing except Bitcoin, a culture that can draw people together to defend Bitcoin from any threat, anywhere, anytime in the future.

It is already beginning to work.  Within the past 24 hours, the “Bitcoin SV” account on this forum stopped acting like a garden-variety scammer, and started acting completely insane.  People of low character know what is dangerous to them, and it frightens them into lashing out wildly.  But of course, for my part, I am only one individual taking a few tiny steps toward a huge goal.  This effort needs everybody who cares about Bitcoin.

That is my vision:  A Nullian Vision.  And I daresay, it is consistent with Satoshi’s vision for Bitcoin—the vision implicit in Bitcoin’s design, and not the sick travesty of a “vision” kludged together from twisted words, out-of-context quotes, and wholly made-up nonsense by a two-bit scammer dolled up in an ill-fit suit who doesn’t even know anything about cryptography.



I want to reply to some of the thoughtful discussion here.  I have not forgotten, and I’ll be back here.  The same applies in some other threads, and I’m sorry to say, sometimes for response to PMs.  For one individual, those few tiny steps require considerable thought and preparation behind the scenes.

For the record, the “Bitcoin social phenomenon” post was in some form first intended by me in December of 2017.  I think of it as my Bitcoin manifesto, or at least a part of it.  Its implementation has been much altered by its use now; no, it is not my usual style, and yes, its style is fully intentional.  Some of my actions in the future will similarly be adaptations of things that were already in my pipeline, as I alluded upthread.

My thanks to DooMAD for starting the discussion here, and to gmaxwell for giving me the wake-up call.  This will be remembered as the classic forum thread that sparked a new Bitcoin community effort.  “...the community could do better?”  Those were the right words at the right time.

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January 09, 2020, 02:19:05 AM
 #25

All I can do is to urge others to action, share ideas, and, I should hope, inspire everybody to come together in an organized effort with a positive direction.  “...the community could do better?”  Yes, I think so; and I am acting on that, with the vision that others will stand with me, act with me, and come together as a community to take a stand here—then, organizing here, expanding the campaign to other forums, to social media, to “IRL” scenarios in business, in investing, at technical conferences, in everyday life—if necessary, in courtrooms—in every venue, on every potential battleground where this issue may arise.  Not only as a reaction to Craig Wright:  As a positive Bitcoin culture, a culture that can be shared even by people who agree on nothing except Bitcoin, a culture that can draw people together to defend Bitcoin from any threat, anywhere, anytime in the future.

I have worn a positive Bitcoin avatar and personal text for a very long time and I would be happy to wear a well designed pro-Bitcoin signature as well as long as I'm not using it for any purpose..
We have many top users running no signature at all while they could be making a pro-Bitcoin statement if someone came up with some cool Bitcoin signatures Smiley

It almost seems like you want to create an NRA like organization for Bitcoin for purposes of support, positive image portrayal, defense, possibly lobbying and such methods of influence.. Sounds like a good idea to me..


A while back I had an idea for a sort of merge-mined altcoin whose purpose would be to support Bitcoin via funding positive image ad campaigns across the internet for Bitcoin, and possibly even giving some financial incentive to Bitcoin node operators and others supporting Bitcoin..
This is an idea for an altcoin whose purpose is to fund a positive and informative PR campaign for Bitcoin similar to the DASH budget paid by the mining revenue.
There it is if you would like to look but it didn't get much for attention at all..
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January 12, 2020, 01:30:52 PM
 #26

Why BSV is proof that Craigh Wright is NOT satoshi

First things first: I never really participated in the CSW bashing, I never took him seriously, I never felt it necessary to speak up against this imposter and fraud.
But I was wrong. The post by gmaxwell and several by nullius made me rethink.
CSW is an identity thief and desecrator of Kleiman’s grave.
We finally lost Gavin’s valuable support based on his trickery (sure, the relationship between Gavin and the other core developers was already tense, but CSW was the final nail to the coffin).
My knowledge of the English language isn’t sufficient to express the contempt I feel for his actions.


I'm not absolutely sure how to flesh out this argument, so here goes nothing:

Satoshi’s true vision was (as explained in the white paper):
"The longest chain not only serves as proof of the sequence of events witnessed, but proof that it came from the largest pool of CPU power.“

You can’t get much clearer than that.
Satoshi wanted Bitcoin to be the one chain that could prove that it „contained“ the most „CPU power“.

Now, CSW claims that BSV is Bitcoin. But BSV doesn’t have the most CPU power for its hashing algorithm.
If he truly were satoshi and stood by his vision, he would have seen to it that his chain would again have the most CPU power for its given algorithm.
I.e., if satoshi had created BSV, he would have changed the algorithm.
Therefore, the creators and supporters of BSV cannot be satoshi.

This is actually a quite simple argument, and not likely to be refuted.

We’re now basically left with one of two conclusions:
a) CSW is not and never was satoshi
b) CSW was satoshi, but had a stroke or something and no longer understands the motivation of his former personality
I strongly tend to a), but I can’t prove that it’s not b) Wink

But either way: CSW is not satoshi.
q.e.d.

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January 12, 2020, 01:41:49 PM
Last edit: January 12, 2020, 07:25:24 PM by MagicByt3
 #27



 Wink



https://youtu.be/IUixj25hxDY?t=10176

1Hr's 50 Min  


Managed to break my way into there chat and asking the BSV community about the Stolen MTGOX coins listed as part of the Tulip trust..

Few of them said they think he should go to jail..  
Then they tried to shoot me down and discredit me but the truth is out there...

Enjoy!

Incorrect Padding! Tongue
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January 12, 2020, 05:13:44 PM
 #28



 Wink


https://youtu.be/IUixj25hxDY?t=10176

2Hr's 50 Min 


Managed to break my way into there chat and asking the BSV community about the Stolen MTGOX coins listed as part of the Tulip trust..

Few of them said they think he should go to jail..  
Then they tried to shoot me down and discredit me but the truth is out there...

Enjoy!


I clicked on that YouTube link, MagicByt3, and I listened to a bit more than 20 minutes of it (can I get those minutes of my life back?).  I did not hear any challenge to anyone on that call or even any reference to GOX coins including at the point that you flagged at 2Hr's 50 Min....

Very painful listening to them for more than a few minutes, especially when they start to refer to Craig as if he really were satoshi or had any credibility at all...  He is referred to an alpha male who knows things, instead of the narcissistic self-absorbed lying nutjob that he is. 

Sometimes it seems that nobody can really believe those kinds of things, but hey you hear the nonsense coming out of their mouths and the level of dumb within that video even while they are proclaiming everyone else to be dumb.... except for the Craig acolytes and Craig's team. 

Gosh, people surely want to be on the "correct team," so there is that kind of wanting to be on the correct team dynamics of wanting to stick to your team.. and maybe us bitcoiners are like that too?  I hate to believe that bitcoiners are attaching to the team in the same kind of way, but listening to those guys, it just seems that they are suggesting that they are the ONLY ones in possession of the truth.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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January 12, 2020, 05:26:27 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #29

people surely want to be on the "correct team," so there is that kind of wanting to be on the correct team dynamics of wanting to stick to your team.. and maybe us bitcoiners are like that too?
We Bitcoiners are obviously the same.
We are always looking for self-affirmation in groups.
Every single human being without a severe personality disorder is.

But: there are ways to overcome those thinking patterns, you can learn them, but they will always remain kind of painful.
This is what Skepticism is all about.

All free men, wherever they may live, can use Bitcoin, and, therefore, as a free man, I take pride in the words "Ich bin ein Bitcoiner!"
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January 12, 2020, 05:38:40 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (3)
 #30



 Wink


https://youtu.be/IUixj25hxDY?t=10176

2Hr's 50 Min  


Managed to break my way into there chat and asking the BSV community about the Stolen MTGOX coins listed as part of the Tulip trust..

Few of them said they think he should go to jail..  
Then they tried to shoot me down and discredit me but the truth is out there...

Enjoy!


I clicked on that YouTube link, MagicByt3, and I listened to a bit more than 20 minutes of it (can I get those minutes of my life back?).  I did not hear any challenge to anyone on that call or even any reference to GOX coins including at the point that you flagged at 2Hr's 50 Min....

Very painful listening to them for more than a few minutes, especially when they start to refer to Craig as if he really were satoshi or had any credibility at all...  He is referred to an alpha male who knows things, instead of the narcissistic self-absorbed lying nutjob that he is.  

Sometimes it seems that nobody can really believe those kinds of things, but hey you hear the nonsense coming out of their mouths and the level of dumb within that video even while they are proclaiming everyone else to be dumb.... except for the Craig acolytes and Craig's team.  

Gosh, people surely want to be on the "correct team," so there is that kind of wanting to be on the correct team dynamics of wanting to stick to your team.. and maybe us bitcoiners are like that too?  I hate to believe that bitcoiners are attaching to the team in the same kind of way, but listening to those guys, it just seems that they are suggesting that they are the ONLY ones in possession of the truth.


http://prntscr.com/qmo7k6

Not sure why but on mine it's at 2hr's 50 as soon as you see the blue circle on the chat is when it is.
But it's 1000% in there.   

Incorrect Padding! Tongue
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January 12, 2020, 06:54:14 PM
 #31



 Wink


https://youtu.be/IUixj25hxDY?t=10176

2Hr's 50 Min  


Managed to break my way into there chat and asking the BSV community about the Stolen MTGOX coins listed as part of the Tulip trust..

Few of them said they think he should go to jail..  
Then they tried to shoot me down and discredit me but the truth is out there...

Enjoy!


I clicked on that YouTube link, MagicByt3, and I listened to a bit more than 20 minutes of it (can I get those minutes of my life back?).  I did not hear any challenge to anyone on that call or even any reference to GOX coins including at the point that you flagged at 2Hr's 50 Min....

Very painful listening to them for more than a few minutes, especially when they start to refer to Craig as if he really were satoshi or had any credibility at all...  He is referred to an alpha male who knows things, instead of the narcissistic self-absorbed lying nutjob that he is.  

Sometimes it seems that nobody can really believe those kinds of things, but hey you hear the nonsense coming out of their mouths and the level of dumb within that video even while they are proclaiming everyone else to be dumb.... except for the Craig acolytes and Craig's team.  

Gosh, people surely want to be on the "correct team," so there is that kind of wanting to be on the correct team dynamics of wanting to stick to your team.. and maybe us bitcoiners are like that too?  I hate to believe that bitcoiners are attaching to the team in the same kind of way, but listening to those guys, it just seems that they are suggesting that they are the ONLY ones in possession of the truth.


http://prntscr.com/qmo7k6

Not sure why but on mine it's at 2hr's 50 as soon as you see the blue circle on the chat is when it is.
But it's 1000% in there.   

O.k.  Thanks for clarifying that, MagicByt3.  I was able to find it based on your clarification that showed that the there was an hour difference between the clip that you had mentioned and the link that you provided... so when I went back an hour on the link that you provided, I was able to find your appearance, which was between 1h:50m and 2h:19m.   Yes, you made a lot of reasonable points, and even attempting to give a lot of benefit of the doubt to those diptwats in several ways.  So, maybe you were even too nice, but perhaps if you had been more aggressive, they might not have allowed you to speak at all.. so anyhow, there was a lot of cognizant dissonance from each of the other participants who spoke while you are on - in terms of trying to deny court documents and to say that the court documents that you mentioned was fake news even though fucktwat craig wright's legal team had submitted that evidence with the signature of fucktwat craig wright on the document.

So additionally, yeah a little bit of irritating that they spent a few minutes trying to figure out who you were or getting you to provide a link.. ridiculous.. and wanting to devolve into personal attacks...... but you were not really giving them too much to attack except largely sticking to your original point to provide discussion of the irony of the document that Wright submitted to the court.... 

So, yeah, I appreciated that you largely stuck to your points and you were the only one who seemed to be reasonable and attempting to deal with reasonable points, even when they were suggesting bitcoin stagnation and supposed transactions on bcash SV... lunacy... .

I pretty much had to stop watching after you got off of the call.... but the portion that you were on the call was actually decently worthwile... so yeah, it can make quite a bit of difference just having one person, like yourself, who is actually grappling with reality and attempting to be genuinely reasonable rather than just making shit up, which seemed to have been the circumstances of every single other participant on that call that I heard in the portion to which I listened.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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January 12, 2020, 07:03:55 PM
 #32

Thanks I do feel that one or two of them actually listened and I hope they go away and look at the info provided also I made it clear there is personal attacks from SV you-tuber and they said we cannot police everyone yet they seem'd to know who the guy was by name.

I really just wanted people to see they have a narrow narrative and when real tangible proofs are put in front of them they descend into the he don't like the "big bad ozzy man" was what they kept saying also the fact they then attempted to say Mr CSW would not have submitted that he probably just singed off on it which I find absurd.

Anyway gave them and there viewers something to chew on before I release the next big whammy.

Watch this space..  Cheesy

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January 12, 2020, 07:15:19 PM
 #33

they then attempted to say Mr CSW would not have submitted that he probably just singed off on it which I find absurd.

I understand that when you are engaged in a live conversation with anyone and you are trying to be genuine, you need to attempt to listen to what others are saying and to attempt to give them some benefit of the doubt that they are trying to make valid and reasonably genuine points.  Nonetheless, I considered almost everything that each of them said in response to you was leaning towards absurd, but surely there can be a little bit of reasonableness in some of the absurd points that some of them were making. 

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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January 12, 2020, 11:09:51 PM
 #34

I'm not absolutely sure how to flesh out this argument, so here goes nothing:

Satoshi’s true vision was (as explained in the white paper):
"The longest chain not only serves as proof of the sequence of events witnessed, but proof that it came from the largest pool of CPU power.“

You can’t get much clearer than that.
Satoshi wanted Bitcoin to be the one chain that could prove that it „contained“ the most „CPU power“.

I wouldn't say it needs any further fleshing out.  It's succinct and to-the-point.  Combined with the argument that the fork-coin clients are incapable of syncing with the chain built by the largest pool of CPU power because of the myriad consensus rules they've broken, it's a slam dunk.

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