paddy_exchange (OP)
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January 07, 2020, 02:28:14 AM Last edit: January 07, 2020, 02:53:27 PM by paddy_exchange |
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localbitcoin steals me?
I have got 0.04233733 btc insite localbitcoin I tried to withdraw localbitcoin doesn't allow localbitcoin has changed T&C and tell me if you want your money accept the conditions I do not want to accept imposed conditions I may not accept localbitcoin can close my account if wants but localbitcion must allow me to withdraw my money before
but no...
to localbitcoin
I have to accept the conditions yes or yes or bye bye muy bitcoin...
localbitcoin steals me?
***
localbitcoin has my national identity document. It is not identification. It is rejection of change of coditions
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philipma1957
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January 07, 2020, 03:41:11 AM |
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complex question
answer is do you have a full copy of old
T&C?
print it out and show it here.
if you don’t have the old T&C. you have zero case.
if you have the old T&C. we could read it and see if they have the right to change and force new rules on you.
my guess is you will lose your coin if you don’t comply to new T&C
as the old one will have a line that allows them to alter t&c.
therefore you will need to comply to get the coin.
i also think 🤔 the question belongs in service discussion not here.
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mk4
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January 07, 2020, 09:18:40 AM |
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I mean, I don't think you have any other choice. The new T&C requires KYC/AML documents to be submitted, right? If so, unfortunately you're probably going to need to submit the required documents to gain back access to your funds.
Anyway, another perfect reason on why you shouldn't unnecessarily leave funds on custodial platforms.
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TryNinja
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January 07, 2020, 09:23:17 AM |
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Shouldn’t they give you the option to not accept the new T&C, close your account and give your coins back? I don’t think they have any legal grounds to make you accept it or lose your money. Try contacting them with this alternative if you don’t mind getting your account terminated (you will need the KYC anyways to continue with it).
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audaciousbeing
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January 07, 2020, 11:15:45 AM |
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localbitcoin steals me?
I have got 0.04233733 btc insite localbitcoin I tried to withdraw localbitcoin doesn't allow localbitcoin has changed T&C and tell me if you want your money accept the conditions I do not want to accept imposed conditions I may not accept localbitcoin can close my account if wants but localbitcion must allow me to withdraw my money before
but no...
to localbitcoin
I have to accept the conditions yes or yes or bye bye muy bitcoin...
localbitcoin steals me?
While I understand your grouse against local bitcoin, unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done about it. They can change their Terms and Conditions as they wish and they even don't have to notify you but they would because I know anytime there is going to be a major update such as this, they send a notification to all their customers. So, you have one option either to forget about the money and the KYC or fill the KYC and have access to your funds, there is no alternative to that...
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hello_good_sir
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January 07, 2020, 11:44:38 AM |
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Shouldn’t they give you the option to not accept the new T&C, close your account and give your coins back? I don’t think they have any legal grounds to make you accept it or lose your money. Try contacting them with this alternative if you don’t mind getting your account terminated (you will need the KYC anyways to continue with it).
I certainly agree. However when it comes to the issue of KYC (if that is what OP is worried about) then I think the chances that LBC will budge will be relatively slim, due to the fact that they'll constantly refer back to the significance of KYC/AML procedures. There is no point going the legal route either because a) the amounts involved are so small and b) you will have to obviously identify yourself. And I'm sure that there are clauses in the old T&Cs that state they can request KYC docs any time, which makes the situation more sticky. The best you can do is negotiate at this point.
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bitmover
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January 07, 2020, 12:04:50 PM |
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Shouldn’t they give you the option to not accept the new T&C, close your account and give your coins back? I don’t think they have any legal grounds to make you accept it or lose your money.
You are correct and your line of thinking makes sense. But probably in the old T&C, which he agreed, gave the exchange the power to changes terms at any time and to hold his coins... Anyway, another perfect reason on why you shouldn't unnecessarily leave funds on custodial platforms.
Certainly. When you leave money in custodial services you may not only lose it if the custodial services disappear, but also have your account frozen for many reasons. Authorities may decide to investigate the custodial service and frozen funds. Authorities or exchange may decide your account is "suspicious" until you do KYC. Or the terms may change, just like in the OP's case. Ideally nobody should hold any funds in custodial services, only when you need to buy/sell, and immediately remove them after you complete your transaction.
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harizen
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January 07, 2020, 12:10:39 PM |
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~snipped~
Might something is missing here. What exactly did they tell you? Is this just all about that KYC thing or there are other issues? Anyhow, if you want to get back your funds, accept their condition and undergo KYC. No choice but to comply with it. If you don't want, then you have to say goodbye to your funds. I doubt an alternative to that will be allowed by Localbitcoin.
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Coin_trader
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January 07, 2020, 12:25:42 PM |
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as the old one will have a line that allows them to alter t&c.
I'm sure that they have this kind of line in there old T&C which most of bitcoin services usually include to protect there company in case shit happened. By the way localbitcoins approached by force implementation of new T&C to all user, I guarantee that they are holding that kind of cards in there sleeve. Most of new user didn't read Terms before clicking the register button including me. I believe the only key to solve this issue is to follow the new T&C or else OP should accept what he is claiming for loss. I hope OP have the copy of old Terms and condition.
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paddy_exchange (OP)
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January 07, 2020, 02:16:29 PM |
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complex question
answer is do you have a full copy of old
T&C?
print it out and show it here.
if you don’t have the old T&C. you have zero case.
if you have the old T&C. we could read it and see if they have the right to change and force new rules on you.
my guess is you will lose your coin if you don’t comply to new T&C
as the old one will have a line that allows them to alter t&c.
therefore you will need to comply to get the coin.
i also think 🤔 the question belongs in service discussion not here.
The problem is not if I have a copy of the old t & c The problem is that localbitcoin prevents the withdrawal of funds Localbitcoin can change the rules. But he can't steal my money localbitcoin cannot force a user to accept a change localbitcoin may deny the user the use of localbitcion But don't steal the money ...
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paddy_exchange (OP)
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January 07, 2020, 02:22:41 PM |
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I mean, I don't think you have any other choice. The new T&C requires KYC/AML documents to be submitted, right? If so, unfortunately you're probably going to need to submit the required documents to gain back access to your funds.
Anyway, another perfect reason on why you shouldn't unnecessarily leave funds on custodial platforms.
I don't know the new t & c It is irrelevant they're new. do not apply to users prior to acceptance If not. NO acceptance would be necessary ... It's more. I already sent my documents in the past. A website cannot force a user to sign new conditions if the user does not want to. localbitcoin can close the use of the web but not steal the money from not accepting the changes. Yes. It is a perfect reason not to enter a single cent in pages of this type
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paddy_exchange (OP)
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January 07, 2020, 02:25:52 PM |
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Shouldn’t they give you the option to not accept the new T&C, close your account and give your coins back? I don’t think they have any legal grounds to make you accept it or lose your money. Try contacting them with this alternative if you don’t mind getting your account terminated (you will need the KYC anyways to continue with it).
should... but localbitcoin doesn't allow me I have rejected the conditions and I can't withdraw my bitcoin I have sent a ticket to support "sign the conditions ..." And localbitcoin don't send my bitcoin to my bitcoin address ![Huh](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/huh.gif)
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paddy_exchange (OP)
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January 07, 2020, 02:29:34 PM |
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localbitcoin steals me?
I have got 0.04233733 btc insite localbitcoin I tried to withdraw localbitcoin doesn't allow localbitcoin has changed T&C and tell me if you want your money accept the conditions I do not want to accept imposed conditions I may not accept localbitcoin can close my account if wants but localbitcion must allow me to withdraw my money before
but no...
to localbitcoin
I have to accept the conditions yes or yes or bye bye muy bitcoin...
localbitcoin steals me?
While I understand your grouse against local bitcoin, unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done about it. They can change their Terms and Conditions as they wish and they even don't have to notify you but they would because I know anytime there is going to be a major update such as this, they send a notification to all their customers. So, you have one option either to forget about the money and the KYC or fill the KYC and have access to your funds, there is no alternative to that... My problem is not that conditions change My problem is that localbitcoin does not allow me to withdraw my bitcoin If localbitcoin wants to change its conditions. good. I change them But let me withdraw my bitcoin And let the account go by ...
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paddy_exchange (OP)
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January 07, 2020, 02:34:01 PM |
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Shouldn’t they give you the option to not accept the new T&C, close your account and give your coins back? I don’t think they have any legal grounds to make you accept it or lose your money. Try contacting them with this alternative if you don’t mind getting your account terminated (you will need the KYC anyways to continue with it).
I certainly agree. However when it comes to the issue of KYC (if that is what OP is worried about) then I think the chances that LBC will budge will be relatively slim, due to the fact that they'll constantly refer back to the significance of KYC/AML procedures. There is no point going the legal route either because a) the amounts involved are so small and b) you will have to obviously identify yourself. And I'm sure that there are clauses in the old T&Cs that state they can request KYC docs any time, which makes the situation more sticky. The best you can do is negotiate at this point. do not. I'm identified ... I just don't want to accept a change of conditions. I want to exercise my right to withdraw my bitcoin and that localbitcoin do what it wants with the account But I want my bitcoin How do you demand a virtual product like bitcoin? Can I report it in a Spanish court? Or being a virtual product there is no judicial support?
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paddy_exchange (OP)
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January 07, 2020, 02:37:22 PM |
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Shouldn’t they give you the option to not accept the new T&C, close your account and give your coins back? I don’t think they have any legal grounds to make you accept it or lose your money.
You are correct and your line of thinking makes sense. But probably in the old T&C, which he agreed, gave the exchange the power to changes terms at any time and to hold his coins... Anyway, another perfect reason on why you shouldn't unnecessarily leave funds on custodial platforms.
Certainly. When you leave money in custodial services you may not only lose it if the custodial services disappear, but also have your account frozen for many reasons. Authorities may decide to investigate the custodial service and frozen funds. Authorities or exchange may decide your account is "suspicious" until you do KYC. Or the terms may change, just like in the OP's case. Ideally nobody should hold any funds in custodial services, only when you need to buy/sell, and immediately remove them after you complete your transaction. Or how is the case the custody service can block your funds for no reason ... right or wrong ... the reality is that you don't have your bitcoin ![Cry](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cry.gif)
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paddy_exchange (OP)
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January 07, 2020, 02:46:18 PM |
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~snipped~
Might something is missing here. What exactly did they tell you? Is this just all about that KYC thing or there are other issues? Anyhow, if you want to get back your funds, accept their condition and undergo KYC. No choice but to comply with it. If you don't want, then you have to say goodbye to your funds. I doubt an alternative to that will be allowed by Localbitcoin. > Change of conditions > accept or reject > reject bitcoin locked > mail to support > "accept the terms" > I don't want > my bitcoin blocked It is not legal for the "accept" option to be forced. It is not legal to steal bitcoin if someone does not necessarily accept. If there is the option to accept or reject. It is because the user must be able to accept and reject. otherwise it is fraud localbitcoin may prohibit using localbitcoin if I do not accept. But it can't steal my bitcoin if I don't accept. The question is. Does justice allow you to report bitcoin? Or is it a product without legal backing where they can steal from us with impunity?
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NeuroticFish
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January 07, 2020, 02:48:42 PM |
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I'm identified ... I just don't want to accept a change of conditions. I want to exercise my right to withdraw my bitcoin and that localbitcoin do what it wants with the account But I want my bitcoin
You may want to update the original post and give this extra info so people won't tell you again and again about T&C and KYC. How do you demand a virtual product like bitcoin? Can I report it in a Spanish court? Or being a virtual product there is no judicial support?
Virtual or not, it has to count as some sort of good/property. I think that's best to find/ask a lawyer. Edit: I googled for ask a lawyer spain and I've seen some free services which may be what you need.
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paddy_exchange (OP)
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January 07, 2020, 02:50:50 PM |
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as the old one will have a line that allows them to alter t&c.
I'm sure that they have this kind of line in there old T&C which most of bitcoin services usually include to protect there company in case shit happened. By the way localbitcoins approached by force implementation of new T&C to all user, I guarantee that they are holding that kind of cards in there sleeve. Most of new user didn't read Terms before clicking the register button including me. I believe the only key to solve this issue is to follow the new T&C or else OP should accept what he is claiming for loss. I hope OP have the copy of old Terms and condition. It is very simple... If it is not necessary to accept. no need to accept ... If there is the option to accept ... The user must be able to accept ... And if I do not accept. localbitcoin can even close my account. Don't steal my bitcoin
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paddy_exchange (OP)
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January 07, 2020, 02:54:12 PM |
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I'm identified ... I just don't want to accept a change of conditions. I want to exercise my right to withdraw my bitcoin and that localbitcoin do what it wants with the account But I want my bitcoin
You may want to update the original post and give this extra info so people won't tell you again and again about T&C and KYC. How do you demand a virtual product like bitcoin? Can I report it in a Spanish court? Or being a virtual product there is no judicial support?
Virtual or not, it has to count as some sort of good/property. I think that's best to find/ask a lawyer. Edit: I googled for ask a lawyer spain and I've seen some free services which may be what you need. to do.
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BitMaxz
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January 07, 2020, 10:34:32 PM Last edit: January 07, 2020, 10:45:52 PM by BitMaxz |
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~snip~
What I see here is your account is being blocked or locked and you can't able to withdraw your bitcoin out from localbitcoins. I don't see that they steal your bitcoins they just locked your account I think if you want to withdraw better accept their new terms and verify the KYC process this time and they will unlock your account back. Unlike before you can able to use their service without any KYC verification but right now they are forcing customers and users to accept the new terms including the KYC verification.
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