Is College Worth it? So many graduates In Debt/Underemployed

[FutureMoneyTrends]

There is a new documentary showing the latest statistics on federal funding, loans, student debt and college attendance. It compares how the system has changed over the last 50 years.

You can view it at the link below:




or direct youtube link:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XfJBgaIrxiQ

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[Mike Christ]

College is a massive waste of time; there was a time where the barriers mattered and you had to get a degree, but the barriers have been nullified due to our economy and your only hope for a good job is to create it yourself, e.g. entrepreneurial work--which is, of course, made difficult for the very reasons why the economy is in such bad shape now.

To make an analogy, if the economy is a bird, and regulation is oil, then our bird looks like this:



It's not going to take flight until we scrub it clean, but it's only going to get worse if we put it off.  Anyway, the more oil that's stuck to our bird, the fewer jobs we're going to have, fewer college graduates are going to find good positions (even though we're nowhere close to being satisfied as a species and those jobs are just waiting to happen), the more worthless college degrees are and the more government subsidizes college tuition to get people to go despite their better judgment, which of course only tackles the effect, not the cause.

[BitOnyx]

It depends.

Going to college for something you can just learn from books is not worth it.When you need something more practical that is hard to learn from books smaller courses are cheaper, take less time and are much more useful.

Still if you want to be doctor, civil engineer or something like that, college is kinda must have.

[Hawker]

It depends on how you define "worth it."

College graduates earn more and the money you spend on a degree will get a better rate of return than any other investment.  In those terms, its worth it.

If you have the right family background, some private colleges plug you into the elite networks that make the money in certain professions and you will earn far more as a result of having attended that college.  For example, Princeton and banking.  In those terms, its worth it.  

US private college fees have shot up and the extra money is spent on facilities like luxury accommodation and gyms rather than on academic facilities.  These add nothing to your earning potential.  In those terms, its not worth it - go with a state college.

Some degrees are not designed to be financially "worth it."  No-one studies Anthropology in order to have the money to buy a Porsche.  I would still argue that a degree in Anthropology is worth it if you are fascinated by the subject.  If you are aware that you are spending money to follow your intellectual passion, then it has to be worth it.

[Dabs]

I've always wanted to take up the sciences. Theoretical physics. ... Those are almost not worth the money you pay, unless you become the next Einstein or something, or unless you are a scholar (in which case, you're not paying.)

But, if there is a job offer, and there are two candidates: one with a degree, one without. ... Depending on the actual job, the one who gets it is usually the guy with more formal education.

Manual labor jobs like electricians, plumbers, and miners (the ones in dark caves) don't usually have college degrees.

Office workers, like attorneys, lawyers, doctors, accountants and engineers, usually are because of the college courses they finished.

If you have the money, it's not a bad idea to actually finish a course and get one degree. If you don't, well, what choice do you have?

[Elwar]

College is a lazy way of proving that you have some understanding of the job you plan on taking.

The price of college is following the same progress of the housing bubble for the same reasons that housing prices skyrocketed.

Wait until the prices crash or build a portfolio for the kind of work you plan on going into.

Personally, I work for the government and they have formulas they use for salary which uses college degrees to determine your salary. So I used my work tuition payment to get my Master's degree. I did not choose my degree for gaining any knowledge but on getting through it easily so that I can get a higher salary because I have a higher degree.

[zetaray]

Things you learn from college can be learnt from books and practical experience. Knowledge wise, it is not worth it. From securing a good steady job stand point, college is well worth it. How else can you give an employer confidence that you are as you as you say, against other hundreds of applicants?

[sudoku]

College is about getting the diploma. Nowaday you can learn almost anything you want for free on the internet. There is a guy who did the MIT undergraduate computer science cirriculum in one year at home for the cost of text books. So if you can sell yourself without a diploma and have the discipline to learn on your own, skip college and the student debt and teach yourself.

[maurya78]

For the accreditation yes

Will be some time yet before employers will look beyond diplomas to skill sets alone

[Lethn]

No, 'compulsory' public education has been an extreme failure that nobody wants to talk about because they've convinced themselves it's the morally right thing to do to trick children from an early age into believing they're learning something that will either get them a job or help them survive out there, I was just having a chat with my art tutor about this and it's not only people my age that are being forced to stay at their parents homes again but even people her age ( She's a bit older than me ) are going back to their parents because it's becoming too expensive to stay on their own.

Now before public education advocates attack me with pitchforks and set me on fire, that is not to say it's necessarily a bad thing to go and get an education, if you can pick up a real skill set and you learn something then good on you, but the problem is the people running these courses are often scam artists and promise students the world if they sign up, once they have your money then that's it and you're fucked.

I stuck to private tuition and I honestly believe I have learned more in these past couple of years about my chosen subjects ( Art and Jewellery ) than I ever would have in a university factory processing environment because that's really all that matters to them. So long as you make their statistics look good, you aren't a problem to worry about or dispose of, my own experience of education was if I didn't care and did my work they didn't do shit, but if I did care and was actually interested in the subject they knew fuck all and were unwilling to teach me.

For the record I haven't been to university, but I've heard enough horror stories to prevent me from going and my experience in public education alone is what keeps me away, I think one of the worst parts about all these educational institutions is you're work is essentially their property and you sign it over when you go onto their course because they have zero respect for intellectual property, oh and they don't fucking pay freelancers.

[Initscri]

I definitely think college is worth it for most degrees that have risk or you cannot demonstrate experience or skills based off actual proof.

But let me go into depth.

I believe for example, college is, and should be a requirement to be a doctor. Doctors have risk and need proof of some form of learning.

As a doctor, if a customer asks you for proof about previous "work", you cannot grab one of your clients and ask them to discuss their issue and how you helped resolve it with them (at least 99% of the time).

In relation to jobs such as Web Developer, Server Admin, Business, etc... I think there is no necessarily a requirement for college. You can display your testimonials and work on-demand, and there is no risk provided within the job (unless you are managing sensitive data, or data which cannot be destroyed (which you are not going to get with any level of college degree without experience anyways)).

With the startup industries we have today (which continue to grow) and inventions like Bitcoin which allow for innovation and adoption on all levels with no exclusion of people without college degrees, I think having no college degree is worth something to look at.

In my opinion, I think every teenager looking to go into university or college should look into depth at their current standing situation. Most college and university students are funnelled through college not because they need college or university, but because they believe they need college or university (promoted via ads or parents). I have to admit, the level and demonstration of marketing and promotion from the universities and colleges over the decades is remarkable. They made people believe they need proof of "knowledge and skills" from a corporate entity (most of the time).

In most cases I find people believe you cannot get anywhere in life without a college degree. "You're going to be working at McDonalds for the rest of your life".

With facts taken from http://facts.randomhistory.com/millionaires-facts.html and other websites (can source if required), around 20% of millionaries and billionaires don't have college/university degrees. I cannot find the article but I explicitly found an article ( I think on Forbes or something) that said a large population of the 1% of the 1% don't have degrees either (Bill Gates for example). Now I know anyone can go on the fact that "These are small cases, and do not happen a lot". My point is simple, if a person feels they can succeed, don't stunt that with your own beliefs. There is no age requirement for college (as far as I know) and you can go at any time. Let the person look into their own mind and make their OWN decision, not yours.

TL;DR: Do I think College is worth it... Yes, but only if...

1. The person is willing and doesn't have a sense of urge or motivation to "try it out on his/her own".
2. The degree is worth it in terms of the specific job.

I'm sorry, but with the unemployment rate standing today... It won't be your college degree or diploma that gets you the job much longer, it will be your motivation and enthusiasm about the job you want to posses -- so why can't people who are extremely motivated and have enthusiasm with no degree gets jobs again?...

For the record, I went to college, dropped out. I am trying without, if not - I shall make the responsible and personal decision on college or no college again.

[iram3130]

I've always wanted to take up the sciences. Theoretical physics. ... Those are almost not worth the money you pay, unless you become the next Einstein or something, or unless you are a scholar (in which case, you're not paying.)

But, if there is a job offer, and there are two candidates: one with a degree, one without. ... Depending on the actual job, the one who gets it is usually the guy with more formal education.

Manual labor jobs like electricians, plumbers, and miners (the ones in dark caves) don't usually have college degrees.

Office workers, like attorneys, lawyers, doctors, accountants and engineers, usually are because of the college courses they finished.

If you have the money, it's not a bad idea to actually finish a course and get one degree. If you don't, well, what choice do you have?

Business owner, Entrepreneur, Managing your own business. Never on my dream to work for someone.  My dreams are people working for me. 

[FutureMoneyTrends]

Good thoughts guys. Agree with 90%

I also think the best option is to work for yourself; entrepreneurship and self learning.

[jeffersonairplane]

Study to gain knowledge and be able to create your own business.

[Initscri]

Study to gain knowledge and be able to create your own business.

No doubt. College/Universities are great places to gain knowledge (even though I believe most people go for the degrees).

In all honesty however, I think it is based off different learning types.

If you like balance and a structure of learning and cannot apply that on your own (Which many people cannot), then University/College is a better choice.

However, if you can apply the structure or sort-of "self-teach" yourself, then "self-teaching" yourself and building yourself up may be something to look at as well.

I think the bottom line is to not get influenced by others, evaluate yourself, and then make your own decision if University or College is worth it based on your principles of learning.

Edit: BTW, I forgot to vote on the poll. I voted "Yes, for the majority" simply because of the above stances of most people not knowing or able to self teach themselves.

[Dabs]

College = Proof of Work

Proof of Stake = ?

LOL, just thinking out loud.

[FutureMoneyTrends]

College = Proof of Work

Proof of Stake = ?

LOL, just thinking out loud.

Isn't it less proof since you can cheat your way through college?

[Bonam]

Well, some degrees are much more worthwhile than others. A lot of stats on this are available, generally showing much better payoff from technical fields compared to degrees in the humanities (unsurprisingly). In all cases, however, college provides one with an opportunity to build a network of contacts that can be a useful lifelong resource, it's up to the individual to make the most of it.

[Lauda]

Isn't it less proof since you can cheat your way through college?

Hopefully our doctors won't cheat, else you will have a fun time after visiting them.

[Bit_Happy]

College is about getting the diploma. Nowaday you can learn almost anything you want for free on the internet. There is a guy who did the MIT undergraduate computer science cirriculum in one year at home for the cost of text books. So if you can sell yourself without a diploma and have the discipline to learn on your own, skip college and the student debt and teach yourself.

He must have been very busy during that one year.
It takes real dedication to get that much done quickly.

[Dabs]

College = Proof of Work

Proof of Stake = ?

LOL, just thinking out loud.

Isn't it less proof since you can cheat your way through college?

Well, if the peers accept your proof, your transaction gets included in the blockchain. And once that builds on to the next job, the new employer tends to overlook the fork you created.

I mean, if, after 10 years of working as a Network Admin, someone finds out that I cheated my certificates ...

For all other professionals, so long as you pass the board exam or whatever usual requirement is in that industry, then you're probably good to go. Most will not allow you to take the exam though, if you don't show "proof" that you studied that particular profession. (Law, Medical field, Accounting, etc.)

[zolace]

Yes College is good, but not all the people need it!

[am]

Yes College is good, but not all the people need it!

Summed up perfectly. It's something that you should do if you're interested but not forced upon you.

Graduate school is broken in this respect at the moment i.e folks go to get the salary and not because they're passionate about the subject matter.

[Joshuar]

It depends on what field you want to get into. If you wanna be a engineer or mechanic, you don't need college.
If you want to be a nurse, you need college.

Depends on the field guys......and even then you're not guaranteed a job.

[is870]

  good！

[b!z]

Think of education as an investment. It costs money, but you might end up with a better chance earning a higher salary.

Some colleges are crap, those aren't worth attending.

[CrazyLoaf]

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[dotcom]

There is a new documentary showing the latest statistics on federal funding, loans, student debt and college attendance. It compares how the system has changed over the last 50 years.

You can view it at the link below:

http://CrushTheStreet.com/college

or direct youtube link:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XfJBgaIrxiQ

In 20 years, a college degree is going to be about as valuable as the toilet paper I wipe my ass with.

As far as right now goes, it absolutely depends on what you're going into. The vast majority of degrees are useless and watered down; aspiring students would be better off self-educating and getting real world experience. People with drive and persistence will succeed and people without won't (regardless of whether they have a degree or not). Things like medical or law degrees will always be tied into college/uni education though, if you're going into such fields you should obviously attend.

[SaltySpitoon]

College is not for the majority of people I don't think. Its useful for certain fields, like the medical field and whatnot, but most people don't need to go to business school, they don't need to get a degree saying they are verified experts at painting or graphic design. Ideally, you shouldn't even need a degree to be a software engineer. In a world that doesn't require a degree to work at McDonalds, you should be able to prove that you are qualified for a job without a piece of paper saying so.

I'm a student, and I see so many people that are wasting their money on frivolous degrees that don't actually better their skills, but just make them "marketable" to employers. I'm a nuclear physics major, so I can talk myself into continuing with my education, as I hope that I'm getting more than just a piece of paper, but there are so many degree paths that are just a waste of money.


I do like to tell the story of my Aunt however, whenever I get super peppy people telling me and others that college is a guarentee that you will get a high paying and high powered job. My aunt got a complete scholarship to Yale, 100% paid for, tuition, books, etc. She went and finished her MBA as salutatorian there. When she graduated, she couldn't find a job, as she was over qualified, and she didn't want to move away from home. So she worked at Walmart/Burger King from then on out. That would be a $350,000 education today. Now imagine if she had paid for it.

[epplercharles]

Yes it is worth. Some subjects you cannot study at home. College is for learning. You should not study for job opportunity.

[Bonam]

It depends on what field you want to get into. If you wanna be a engineer or mechanic, you don't need college.

An engineer is very different from a mechanic. I would say college is extremely helpful if you're career goal is to be an engineer. Besides the skills/knowledge you learn, pretty much any engineering job requires you to have a degree.

[Bit_Happy]

I might go back to school for "learning", once I can afford to.
Viewing college as a vital investment is a poor choice for many people.
If you are able to start a business or have success at professional sales (for example), then college is a huge waste of money.

[CryptoREI]

It has changed from go to college and figure out what you want to do to, figure out what you want to do and then go to college. If your interested in something that does not require a degree and you can get OJT or Tech training then save some cash and do that. The cost of going to college to "figure out" what you are going to do is not effective any more. It will just cause you to be underpaid and in debt for long periods of time.

[RodeoX]

I would say the major you pick has to be considered for a correct answer. If you just finished your English poetry degree... Well, let's hope they are hiring at Starbucks. 

[dissident]

people skills and 'who you know' are more important than college. It might be unfortunate that this is the case (at least from my perspective) but it's human nature.

There are certain professions (degree majors) that are in demand, while others are a waste of time. Do your research.

I've reached the early 30's and although it's never too late to go to school, to me work is work... if I'm stuck 12 hours a day doing something I'd rather not be doing, that's called work... there are almost no professions I would enjoy so much as to not call it 'work' ...  so I might as well stick it out where I'm at making $20/hour rather than risk going to school, wasting lots of money, with no guarantees going forward... plus you lose so much of what you learned in high school by the time you hit 30....


Everyone on the internet makes $50 per hour and owns their own business so I know I'm poor.

[BCEmporium]

Main issues as I see it:

1. Offer and Supply rules. If too much people graduate a graduation will worth nothing.

2. Wrong direction, 90%+ wants the graduation to get a good job. For this technical education should be enough, college should be for people up to create jobs.

3. Governments living up for statistics, so to display a population with "high education" they create all sort of useless graduations.

[reginalkri]

College is a great way to create opportunities for those who were born with parents who have money, while making it harder for those who were born to parents who didn't.

With the internet and the ability to download lets say really efficient classes, it would interesting to eliminate colleges, and have the people who studied the hardest get to learn and get hired by the field of their interest. It would make the most qualified people be at the top, to create a better future.

[FutureMoneyTrends]

College = Proof of Work

Proof of Stake = ?

LOL, just thinking out loud.

Isn't it less proof since you can cheat your way through college?

Well, if the peers accept your proof, your transaction gets included in the blockchain. And once that builds on to the next job, the new employer tends to overlook the fork you created.

I mean, if, after 10 years of working as a Network Admin, someone finds out that I cheated my certificates ...

For all other professionals, so long as you pass the board exam or whatever usual requirement is in that industry, then you're probably good to go. Most will not allow you to take the exam though, if you don't show "proof" that you studied that particular profession. (Law, Medical field, Accounting, etc.)

I see what you did there...it's almost as if using the bitcoin network as a metaphor for things makes it more easy to describe

[lemfuture]

technical college for practicality

[werrindor]

I think it is difficult to answer as I think different people need its approach ! I know some people who have succed in business despite the fact they haven't finished college! But mostly it does worth to go there to study

[doriangray]

How many get degrees in fields for which there is no market, or if there is, it pays next to nothing. Unless you are independently wealthy, college years should be spend to learn a profession which will provide for your livelihood with enough left over to repay your loans.

[BitChick]

I met my wonderful hubby in college so it was worth it for me. 

That said, I really think it is crazy to spend $30,000+ per year for a degree.  I have a niece that just graduated from a private university.  She has not been able to find work in her field (forensic science) and is working as a waitress.  She now is trying to pay off her college loan and it is really hard. 

I have thought that if Bitcoin does take off in a wild and crazy manner then I won't really care if my kids want to go to an expensive 4 year college.  If I can pay for it with a few bitcoins then why not!?  But realistically, it seems like a better value just to go to a community college for two years or a less expensive state school.  Or for some just going to a trade school isn't a bad option either.

[direction]

It depends.

Going to college for something you can just learn from books is not worth it.When you need something more practical that is hard to learn from books smaller courses are cheaper, take less time and are much more useful.

Still if you want to be doctor, civil engineer or something like that, college is kinda must have.

As university as you say and society is different schools. You are totally different.

[department]

How many get degrees in fields for which there is no market, or if there is, it pays next to nothing. Unless you are independently wealthy, college years should be spend to learn a profession which will provide for your livelihood with enough left over to repay your loans.

May you have said is true, but the reality is so cruel, many people want to do but cannot do.

[counter]

Basically if you go to school and don't an idea of what you want to do with your future you will just be wasting money.  You could actually be working and getting a head start in the work force.

[CoinsForTech]

Basically if you go to school and don't an idea of what you want to do with your future you will just be wasting money.  You could actually be working and getting a head start in the work force.

My thoughts exactly. I never went to university because I did not know what my goals were. No point wasting 3+ years and a whole lot of cash if I wasn't sure that was the direction I wanted to move.

Instead I did work experience for an excellent sales company and the rest was history! School of hard knocks > college in my opinion.

[counter]

Basically if you go to school and don't an idea of what you want to do with your future you will just be wasting money.  You could actually be working and getting a head start in the work force.

My thoughts exactly. I never went to university because I did not know what my goals were. No point wasting 3+ years and a whole lot of cash if I wasn't sure that was the direction I wanted to move.

Instead I did work experience for an excellent sales company and the rest was history! School of hard knocks > college in my opinion.

good for you getting a real skill you can use for a long time to come and you saved yourself a ton of debt.

[rosechose00]

Things you learn from college can be learnt from books and practical experience. Knowledge wise, it is not worth it. From securing a good steady job stand point, college is well worth it. How else can you give an employer confidence that you are as you as you say, against other hundreds of applicants?

The main school is now divorced from society and more powerful.

[Lethn]

Basically if you go to school and don't an idea of what you want to do with your future you will just be wasting money.  You could actually be working and getting a head start in the work force.

My thoughts exactly. I never went to university because I did not know what my goals were. No point wasting 3+ years and a whole lot of cash if I wasn't sure that was the direction I wanted to move.

Instead I did work experience for an excellent sales company and the rest was history! School of hard knocks > college in my opinion.

+1

I'm currently learning Artwork and Jewellery through private tuition ( which is actually going to cost my parents less in the long run ) and as people will see in my signature starting up my own business >_< Must build and create m0ar!

[Satterfield]

Study is very important to stand up on your own foot.So college is good to gain some knowldge.

[RobFordWotWot]

Yes for the majority, no for anybody with a brain in their skull.

[300]

If you want to be a surgeon, then going to college is your only choice. If you want to be a programmer or an entrepreneur then college is most likely going to be a waste. Then there are jobs which are kind of in the middle of the two extremes like a scientist for example where a college education is recommended but is not mandatory.

[Lauda]

It depends on the situation and what you want to be.
You won't find a (real) doctor without a college degree. 

[RobFordWotWot]

It depends on the situation and what you want to be.
You won't find a (real) doctor without a college degree. 

I don't know there was this guy selling gills in the street the other day that seemed pretty legit.

[bryant.coleman]

College degrees can come in handy when you are self-employed. Gives you a definite advantage in most of the freelancing websites.

[counter]

Basically if you go to school and don't an idea of what you want to do with your future you will just be wasting money.  You could actually be working and getting a head start in the work force.

My thoughts exactly. I never went to university because I did not know what my goals were. No point wasting 3+ years and a whole lot of cash if I wasn't sure that was the direction I wanted to move.

Instead I did work experience for an excellent sales company and the rest was history! School of hard knocks > college in my opinion.

+1

I'm currently learning Artwork and Jewellery through private tuition ( which is actually going to cost my parents less in the long run ) and as people will see in my signature starting up my own business >_< Must build and create m0ar!

Very nice and a good trade if you ask me.  Good luck with that business of yours I hope business booms for you my friend.

[counter]

College degrees can come in handy when you are self-employed. Gives you a definite advantage in most of the freelancing websites.

I think the issue is also that there will be many people that will have the diploma and not everyone will get the job.  That is happening already from what I've seen.

[TaunSew]

I was reading my newspaper and they were even quoting 25% unemployment for medical graduates (Doctor level) of all things.   I happen to have older siblings, and know their friends of friends, and I know plenty of people who graduated with 'good degrees' like engineering and never managed to land a career in their field (and are stuck with lower incomes).  

I don't know if blaming baby boomers or technological unemployment is the case here.  Statistically speaking, there only ever been a certain number of "'Chieftain Jobs" (middle management careers) and it's extremely competitive to land one of those few coveted positions.    You not only have to be good but you have to be the best of the best (or have the connections).

[Don007]

I definately think it's worth it. Sure, we live in a tough time now (with the economy etc). But, I'm sure, in the long run it will be worth it. Your efforts & money spend on your college will somehow pay itselves back.

(For example when you get promotion above a collegue, because you have a degree and he/she doesn't).

[jinjuro]

Build your own business empire. Be the boss not the worker. I'm know many billionaires who don't even touch college  and still succeed that started from a poor family.

[superresistant]

Main issues as I see it:

1. Offer and Supply rules. If too much people graduate a graduation will worth nothing.

2. Wrong direction, 90%+ wants the graduation to get a good job. For this technical education should be enough, college should be for people up to create jobs.

3. Governments living up for statistics, so to display a population with "high education" they create all sort of useless graduations.

This.
Why is it so hard for people to understand ?
If today 99.9% of people able to have a degree have a degree then the degree is worth nothing among these people.
You are only helping your State propaganda. You are a tool for statistic.
A degree is a paper that is not worth wiping your ass with.

Most of people that I know from studies are stuck to low-paid-jobs and some of them are still unemployed.
The day I decided to not give a damn about graduation is the day I started doing concrete things which lead me to a better life.

[Jcw188]

My wife and I always say that my kid can do whatever he wants.  College is great in terms of the social aspects to it, and living away from home for the first time, etc.  And I think you learn a lot, in certain courses.  However kids should do what makes them happy.  You can get by just fine in a technical trade or artist, as long as you know what you're in forand it could be harder to get a job. 

[Don007]

Remember that finding a well-paid job will be easier if you've passed a study.  Currently, with the crisis, this is also the fact for normal paid jobs. Atleast here, in The Netherlands.  For an average of even below average job requires some kind of related certificate. If you didn't went to school, you might only find a shitty job if you're lucky (as people from Poland / Romania etc took already these jobs in the Netherlands).

[tins]

My wife and I always say that my kid can do whatever he wants.  College is great in terms of the social aspects to it, and living away from home for the first time, etc.  And I think you learn a lot, in certain courses.  However kids should do what makes them happy.  You can get by just fine in a technical trade or artist, as long as you know what you're in forand it could be harder to get a job. 

I feel similar about my son, though I will push that he does go to college.
My wife and I are very, very different. She got her bachelor's, then 2 different master's, just finished her doctorate.
I could not bring myself to make it through one year of college and dropped out...too much of a social butterfly.
But we are an example of college degrees not making or breaking life goals and careers. My wife is a school superintendent and I own a fairly large insurance marketing organization. Even better than the money, we are both HAPPY in our fields. There is an old saying that is very true, 'If you are happy in your career, you'll never have to work another day in your life'.
To sum up my hopes for my son. More than just telling him to go to college or don't go, I will encourage him to find a career path that fulfill him and teach him to work hard. Loving what one does and hard work will make a person more successful than any plaque on the wall.

[Mike Christ]

The day I decided to not give a damn about graduation is the day I started doing concrete things which lead me to a better life.

QFT

[sana8410]

Yes, it's possible to educate yourself..but good teachers make it easier
Yes, it's possible to get a good job without a degree..possible but increasingly difficult
Some professions like law or medicine require degrees, some like engineering or science are close to impossible without a degree
So yes, college is still necessary, but it is essentially a medieval organization that desperately needs to reinvent itself

[twelvesigns]

Yes in short it is worth it!

[marilyngroom]

Unfortunately you need a degree to get certain good jobs.

[marilyngroom]

Yes in short it is worth it!

Could be worth it to you, but you have to look at it, is it worth it for everyone. Would a better system be better?

[tins]

Unfortunately you need a degree to get certain good jobs.

It would be smart to attempt to figure out what kind of career they would be interested in, before spending thousands and thousands of dollars on that education.

[thok422]

I agree that the current debt/exponentially decreasing acceptance rates make it difficult, but I can say as a current college student that I am better off learning what I am now than just taking my high school diploma and running with it.

[counter]

If you have the drive and are the kind of person who focuses on a goal and gets it college may not be the best for you.  You most likely will find away to succed IMO.

[Bit_Happy]

Mainstream view:
You need a degree to compete for the best jobs.
If there is any way to get into college you must do it.

Rebel view:
If you are old enough to apply for college, and you haven't yet figured out how messed up the system is, then you have serious issues.
College is 4 years of indoctrination and partying.
Even if you like to party, avoid college to save a huge amount of money and student loan debt.

Summary:
If you are confident in your ability to start a successful business and/or learn valuable skills that do not require college, then college is a huge waste of time and money.

[BCEmporium]

We must separate two views here, the European and American.
Americans need to take a loan to get to college, Europeans have it nearly free but paid by all with taxes.
Still can't figure which is worse, if put analphabet farmers paying others' college or slam dunk youth into deep debt.

[dogechode]

The problem is pretty simple but difficult to fix. Companies are looking for more and more education as a way to "screen" applicants. Not because they really need people with degrees, but because they need a way to filter through the massive number of applicants they typically receive. I have seen job listings for positions that honestly don't legitimately even NEED a person with a bachelor's degree, yet they are requesting candidates have a Master's in order to apply. Ludicrous!

Since you basically need a bachelor's degree or higher unless you want to work at a gas station, everyone has to go to college, regardless of whether the 4 years of "learning" will actually help them do their job better or not.

If this is going to change, the first change will have to come from hiring organizations, because as long as 99% of job listings for any kind of decent job making a living wage list college as a requirement or strongly desired criteria, then people will keep feeling like their kids MUST attend college.

[Hazir]

The problem is pretty simple but difficult to fix. Companies are looking for more and more education as a way to "screen" applicants. Not because they really need people with degrees, but because they need a way to filter through the massive number of applicants they typically receive. I have seen job listings for positions that honestly don't legitimately even NEED a person with a bachelor's degree, yet they are requesting candidates have a Master's in order to apply. Ludicrous!

Since you basically need a bachelor's degree or higher unless you want to work at a gas station, everyone has to go to college, regardless of whether the 4 years of "learning" will actually help them do their job better or not.

If this is going to change, the first change will have to come from hiring organizations, because as long as 99% of job listings for any kind of decent job making a living wage list college as a requirement or strongly desired criteria, then people will keep feeling like their kids MUST attend college.

This is pretty much good summary of what is going on. There is too many college graduates in the first place. There is not really job for everyone after college, also 'higher education' is overrated. Only practice at work actually makes you a good employee not years spent in college. Finally demands of employers about future employees are so divorced from reality that it is not even funny anymore.

[Bit_Happy]

The problem is pretty simple but difficult to fix. Companies are looking for more and more education as a way to "screen" applicants. Not because they really need people with degrees, but because they need a way to filter through the massive number of applicants they typically receive. I have seen job listings for positions that honestly don't legitimately even NEED a person with a bachelor's degree, yet they are requesting candidates have a Master's in order to apply. Ludicrous!

Since you basically need a bachelor's degree or higher unless you want to work at a gas station, everyone has to go to college, regardless of whether the 4 years of "learning" will actually help them do their job better or not.

If this is going to change, the first change will have to come from hiring organizations, because as long as 99% of job listings for any kind of decent job making a living wage list college as a requirement or strongly desired criteria, then people will keep feeling like their kids MUST attend college.

For decades the Las Vegas area was a place where middle class workers could find stable high paying jobs without a college degree, but that changed radically when The Great Recession started.
Nationwide/globally the world needs to stop requiring a degree for basic level supervisor (and other) jobs.

[BCEmporium]

We had a funny one around not that long ago, a local administration office was hiring an undertaker where the minimum scholarship requirement was a complete high school. Not yet a degree, but still... why in hell do you need 12 years of school to dig with a shovel?!

[dogechode]

This is pretty much good summary of what is going on. There is too many college graduates in the first place. There is not really job for everyone after college, also 'higher education' is overrated. Only practice at work actually makes you a good employee not years spent in college. Finally demands of employers about future employees are so divorced from reality that it is not even funny anymore.

I mean if you really think about the jobs out there, there are a lot of jobs like:

-Customer service
-Sales
-HR

These are just a few examples but honestly what do people learn from college that is necessary to do those jobs?

Another good example is IT. If you don't already dick around with computers and you actually know so little about them that you would benefit from the low-level IT shit they teach you in college IT classes, then you are never going to be even so much as a half-way decent help desk employee let alone a real IT professional. If you do already dick around with computers, then you have nothing to really gain from the classes.

Programming is similar in that honestly, what they teach you in college programming classes pretty much goes right out the window when you start a job programming. I think it would be good to have taken like 2-3 classes just so you are familiar with the basic concepts of programming, but after the first couple all the higher level stuff they teach you doesn't wind up applying at your job at all. When you get hired by a good company they teach you from scratch how to code the way they want it done. If you work for a bad company they just expect you to learn it on your own and the college stuff you learned still doesn't help any.

Yet in all of these examples, if you look at job postings for these types of positions they all want college, and people with freaking master's degrees apply to these jobs it's absurd.

[Snowfire]

There are really two questions here.

Whether college is "worth it" to the individual in a narrow, monetary sense is often a tough call, the exact answer depending on context. There are certainly cases where an individual can end up financially worse off in life having gone to college than if s/he had not done so.

It is a different thing altogether from society's standpoint. Better educated people are better citizens; they are trained to think better; they are less vulnerable to superstition, fraud, and charlatanry, political or otherwise. Educated people are also more interesting to be around, all other things being equal. Society is stronger and more civil when its members are better educated. This may not be much consolation for the poor guy with a PhD in literature or physics who is waiting tables or driving a taxi; but it is nonetheless true.

[BCEmporium]

Better educated people are better citizens; they are trained to think better; they are less vulnerable to superstition, fraud, and charlatanry, political or otherwise.

Sorry, here depends on the education system. You can't say someone with a Madrasa's degree is in anywhere resilient to superstition, actually he most likely dumber at school end then at its begin.

[Snowfire]

Better educated people are better citizens; they are trained to think better; they are less vulnerable to superstition, fraud, and charlatanry, political or otherwise.

Sorry, here depends on the education system. You can't say someone with a Madrasa's degree is in anywhere resilient to superstition, actually he most likely dumber at school end then at its begin.

Madrassa? LOL. I don't even call that education. I more had the typical four-year curriculum in mind, forcing you to have at least some familiarity with such things as constructing a logical argument, the basics of physics, the arts, and so on--at least introductory, not necessarily cutting-edge stuff.

[BCEmporium]

Madrassa? LOL. I don't even call that education. I more had the typical four-year curriculum in mind, forcing you to have at least some familiarity with such things as constructing a logical argument, the basics of physics, the arts, and so on--at least introductory, not necessarily cutting-edge stuff.

An education system can be managed on several ways. I would not want a "system of truth", a system where whatever bullshit they teach you you must assume as an unquestionable certified ultimate truth, but they do exist and are implemented pretty much anywhere, not just Madrassas, those are just too obvious as "a school for make a retard out of you".
In the end then "education" just means a system to teach you something, not that something is actually worthing it or even properly though.

[noviapriani]

Depends on one's own capabilities, if you can not benefit from higher education, why burden the system? We need more training for those in non degreed areas of employment.

[dogechode]

Madrassa? LOL. I don't even call that education. I more had the typical four-year curriculum in mind, forcing you to have at least some familiarity with such things as constructing a logical argument, the basics of physics, the arts, and so on--at least introductory, not necessarily cutting-edge stuff.

I'm not aware of standard college curriculum's requiring a person to take physics or logic/rhetoric classes. In fact I think that would be quite rare if there are any that make such classes mandatory. Most colleges' "core" requirements consist of a mix of classes, many of which are really just making sure you learned everything that you should have learned in high school (ie basic to intermediate math, english, an art class, a couple foreign language classes, etc.)

The idea that people who go to college are somehow more refined or something probably was more valid back when only a small percentage of people went to college. Now that nearly everyone with a pulse goes to college, there would logically seem to be the same percentage of fanatics and lunatics with degrees as there are in the general population.

[superresistant]

Mainstream view:
You need a degree to compete for the best jobs.
If there is any way to get into college you must do it.
Rebel view:
If you are old enough to apply for college, and you haven't yet figured out how messed up the system is, then you have serious issues.
College is 4 years of indoctrination and partying.
Even if you like to party, avoid college to save a huge amount of money and student loan debt.
Summary:
If you are confident in your ability to start a successful business and/or learn valuable skills that do not require college, then college is a huge waste of time and money.

I agree with this.
I did study for over 4 years but most people I've seen are very naive and blind about reality.
I am now working in a field that have nothing to do with my studies and since few months I make more money in cryptocurrencies than in my job.
I know a lot of +5/+10years of studies people that are still doing internship or are just unemployed.

We must separate two views here, the European and American.
Americans need to take a loan to get to college, Europeans have it nearly free but paid by all with taxes.
Still can't figure which is worse, if put analphabet farmers paying others' college or slam dunk youth into deep debt.

Even when college is free (in some college of some country, it is not everywhere in Europe !) you have to pay your food, rent and bills for years and that make European college far from being free (and I'm not including partying).
It is indeed a big difference but the result is about the same : unemployment & frustration.
The gap between what you expect from studies and reality is growing exponentially.

In the end then "education" just means a system to teach you something, not that something is actually worthing it or even properly though.

This.

The more important is to be able to learn fast and adapt to the word you live in.