PrimeNumber7 is an alt of Quickseller, Take 2

[hilariousetc]

See what I mean? A bunch of pals just sit around and reaffirm each others suspicions then just pretend it is fact without ever substantiating anything. Have enough people repeat it, then you can just pretend it is accepted truth. This is a tactic called "manufacturing consensus", and it is a well known methodology for managing narratives such as done in propaganda, marketing, and public relations.

I don't think anyone has claimed it as a fact, but numerous people independently came to the conclusion that they were very likely the same which says a lot and is a pretty big coincidence. I guess we could all be suffering from mass delusion and seeing something that isn't there or just some huge coincidences but I doubt it. It's not a fact that he's QS, but it is very likely. People probably shouldn't be leaving negative over it, but at the same time the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming and I would say they are almost certainly the same person so maybe that's a good enough reason for others if they've already left QS negative. A neutral warning however is more appropriate in my opinion.

Why is it so important to tie these two accounts together? What crimes exactly is this preventing? This is about nothing but petty interpersonal disputes, and the fact that Suchmoon can't document any earlier claims after trying to pretend it wasn't them just solidifies this fact. I like the touch of "NO U" you added as well. Very slick.

This is a petty dispute, but it's one that has been propagated by both sides and will likely continue unless they call a truce, but these tit-for-tat exposes aren't uncommon here and there have been plenty of times where grudges have caused users to try take each other down in anyway they can. I guess if you're of the opinion that QS is shady/dishonest or a scammer then I guess it is important to those people to call it out just like alts of other scammers are tagged as such.

Lately Quickseller has been acting more reasonably than you. Think on that for a few minutes. I still haven't got anyone to answer me on why exactly this needs to be made into a federal case. What exactly is Quickseller up to that needs to be exposed so imminently?

Again, I guess it all depends on what your opinion of QS is. If you think he's a scammer or shady then that's probably why they feel the need to warn others. If PN7 is trying to build that account up to get it into a position of trust or start things like escrowing again then to some people that is probably a cause for alarm, but of course a lot of this will be fuelled by their dislike of him and which I don't blame them for either and I believe it was QS rubbing people the wrong way that started all this in the first place, and then of course there was all the attacking he did on that account and with alts that certainly pissed a lot of people off. I don't particularly trust Quickseller, especially after his behaviour in attacking anyone associated in some minuscule way to the users he doesn't like, and I'm not entirely sure what his motivations are here; honest or potentially nefarious, but I wouldn't out and out call him a scammer or a bad person either. His intentions could have always been just to build accounts up to honestly earn a living, which I wouldn't blame him for, or to get an account into a position of trust to do something bad with it. I guess we'll probably never know, but unless people are willing to forget about things that happened in the past and call a truce then I think this sort of tit for tat behaviour is going to continue forever.

[nutildah]

Why is it so important to tie these two accounts together?

Funny you should ask that.

TECSHARE Distrusts these users' judgement:
49. ~Quickseller (Trust: #  +13 / =3 / -17) (781 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.


Apply a Groucho Marx mask, and:

TECSHARE Trusts these users' judgement:
82. PrimeNumber7 (Trust: neutral) (445 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.


If someone whom I explicitly distrust disguised himself and tricked me into trusting him, I would want to know.  I would also admit my mistake, rectify it, and move on with life.  I wouldn't deflect blame for my error onto those who exposed the disguise.  Not even if those messengers were people with whom I've had a history of disagreements.

In addition to ibminer's words, this is a great reason, and there exists others as well which I am more or less reluctant to share at the moment for the sake of the people affected by it.

People probably shouldn't be leaving negative over it, but at the same time the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming and I would say they are almost certainly the same person so maybe that's a good enough reason for others if they've already left QS negative. A neutral warning however is more appropriate in my opinion.

I am also of this opinion, and perhaps the lack of leaving a negative is a good incentive for him to try to turn a corner. On the other hand, there's no escaping the fact that this is his alt (whoops, guess I called it a "fact"), and every time I see PN7 post I just think to myself, "why not just post this under your Quickseller account?" Whenever he replies to me in other threads, its just kind of insulting to my intelligence that he expects me to just continue pretending they're not the same person when (IMO) they so obviously are.

[suchmoon]

~

He's been so fundamentally dishonest with malicious intent (like the blatant lies he makes up about other people, one of which he apologized for recently, a few hundred to go) that it would be prudent to be aware of his alts as much as reasonably possible on this forum.

I think I've said earlier in this thread (or the other one, can't keep up with this shit) that if he had genuinely turned the corner 4 years ago he could have a decent reputation by now but he kept digging his hole - complete with sockpuppeting and all the other nonsense that got him into trouble to begin with - to the point where I don't think I can believe anymore that he has the capacity of true remorse and reform.

This might be petty, I don't know, it's up to others to decide.

[TECSHARE]

Why is it so important to tie these two accounts together?

Funny you should ask that.

TECSHARE Distrusts these users' judgement:
49. ~Quickseller (Trust: #  +13 / =3 / -17) (781 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.


Apply a Groucho Marx mask, and:

TECSHARE Trusts these users' judgement:
82. PrimeNumber7 (Trust: neutral) (445 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.


If someone whom I explicitly distrust disguised himself and tricked me into trusting him, I would want to know.  I would also admit my mistake, rectify it, and move on with life.  I wouldn't deflect blame for my error onto those who exposed the disguise.  Not even if those messengers were people with whom I've had a history of disagreements.

No one tricked me into doing shit. You are mistaken. I simply do not give a fuck or consider Quickseller enough of a threat to take 30 seconds to change my inclusions even if it is him. This is just more "NO U" tactics designed to try to cast blame on me because I dare have a different opinion than you. No one was talking about this until I started pointing out how these accusations are based 100% on petty bullshit and manufactured by all the same people with disputes with him. He has been a dishonest troll. So fucking what? I consider several of you going after Quickseller here to be dishonest trolls as well. Is he stealing from people? No? Then leave it the fuck out of the trust system.

This is all just a campaign targeted at a person who has been a pain in the ass to all the people targeting him, and it is extremely transparent. This is all very selfish self serving drama that is destructive to the community to make this kind of behavior a precedent. You are going around in the name of making the forum a better place and using that authority as a cudgel to attack people with whom you have long standing personal disputes. I find this bullshit you are whipping EXACTLY as destructive as anything Quickseller has ever done, because really it is the same bullshit, just going the other direction, and I spoke out about it then too when he was perpetrating it.

~

He's been so fundamentally dishonest with malicious intent (like the blatant lies he makes up about other people, one of which he apologized for recently, a few hundred to go) that it would be prudent to be aware of his alts as much as reasonably possible on this forum.

I think I've said earlier in this thread (or the other one, can't keep up with this shit) that if he had genuinely turned the corner 4 years ago he could have a decent reputation by now but he kept digging his hole - complete with sockpuppeting and all the other nonsense that got him into trouble to begin with - to the point where I don't think I can believe anymore that he has the capacity of true remorse and reform.

This might be petty, I don't know, it's up to others to decide.

As I explained before, there is no path to redemption with you people no matter what he does anyway. Thus, you literally give him zero incentive to change his behavior. You are all Quickseller.

[suchmoon]

As I explained before, there is no path to redemption with you people no matter what he does anyway. Thus, you literally give him zero incentive to change his behavior. You are all Quickseller.

That's a good point. What would you like to see done as an incentive for him to change his behavior?

[TECSHARE]

As I explained before, there is no path to redemption with you people no matter what he does anyway. Thus, you literally give him zero incentive to change his behavior. You are all Quickseller.

That's a good point. What would you like to see done as an incentive for him to change his behavior?

Well for a start perhaps this mobilization of the "get Quickseller at all costs" mob could be called off. So what if he has an alt. Leave a neutral on the suspect accounts and call it a day. What the fuck are we even doing here? This is counterproductive in many ways and sets a very bad precedent.

[suchmoon]

Well for a start perhaps this mobilization of the "get Quickseller at all costs" mob could be called off. So what if he has an alt. Leave a neutral on the suspect accounts and call it a day. What the fuck are we even doing here? This is counterproductive in many ways and sets a very bad precedent.

Ok, mobsters, back off.

As for what we're doing here - you tell me. I thought this was settled on page 2 or 3 before you decided to fan the flames because of a neutral feedback I left months ago.

[TECSHARE]

Well for a start perhaps this mobilization of the "get Quickseller at all costs" mob could be called off. So what if he has an alt. Leave a neutral on the suspect accounts and call it a day. What the fuck are we even doing here? This is counterproductive in many ways and sets a very bad precedent.

Ok, mobsters, back off.

As for what we're doing here - you tell me. I thought this was settled on page 2 or 3 before you decided to fan the flames because of a neutral feedback I left months ago.

Yeah, you're right. I am the one who started multiple threads over this. The fact that I posted, in them, clearly that is the problem. You skipped the "call it a day" part.

[DireWolfM14]

mobilization of the "get Quickseller at all costs" mob

You make it sound like we're a posse hellbent on a lynching, but you are misrepresenting the situation quite dramatically.  First, you're neglecting the fact that many of this so-called mob has had these suspicions for well over six months.  Not one of the mob members went looking to tarnish PN7's account, and a neutral review by suchmoon was sufficient for most of us.

So, who spurred this latest bout of drama?  I would suggest the majority of the blame should rest squarely on PrimeNumber7 himself for nominating himself for the "newbie of the year" contest.  None of this would be an issue if he would have been content to build his account remain below the radar.

Even after the drama started to unfold, in the first post I made on the subject I said the following:

If PN7 truly is QS (which I believe to be the case) and his goal is to rank-up and earn signature bounties, I really don't care, and wish him luck.  

So, please stop trying to make this sound like some witch hunt by a bunch blood-thirsty Quickseller hunters.  The facts don't support your hyperbole.

[figmentofmyass]

Well for a start perhaps this mobilization of the "get Quickseller at all costs" mob could be called off. So what if he has an alt. Leave a neutral on the suspect accounts and call it a day. What the fuck are we even doing here? This is counterproductive in many ways and sets a very bad precedent.

Ok, mobsters, back off.

As for what we're doing here - you tell me. I thought this was settled on page 2 or 3 before you decided to fan the flames because of a neutral feedback I left months ago.

on the contrary, if you had left things at that (neutral feedback months ago), we wouldn't be having this discussion.

you said yourself, your true motive here is to keep him out of signature campaigns, etc---petty personal disputes. that is what you are doing here:

As I've said before, to me the issue here is the thoroughly deceptive way Quickseller is trying to sockpuppet his way into whatever it is that he wants to achieve - to earn from sig campaigns, or to regain his DT "powers", or to prove that account farming is cool... who knows.

you've transparently stated your intentions. your role in this "investigation"/thread is to prevent someone from gaining "whatever it is that he wants to achieve". through that lens, the veil of "scam busting" really falls apart---you're just trumping up unproven accusations and making a public spectacle to hurt your apparent enemy.

i don't understand how these unproven witch hunts against the people you dislike are in the interest of the forum. it seems like a slippery slope towards outright abuse of the default trust system, if it couldn't already be considered that.

if it wasn't clear, that is what TECSHARE is talking about. next time maybe just leave a neutral tag and actually call it a day?

If PN7 truly is QS (which I believe to be the case) and his goal is to rank-up and earn signature bounties, I really don't care, and wish him luck.

i feel the same way, i mean, who the fuck cares?

but apparently you and suchmoon are polar opposites in this respect.....

[TECSHARE]

mobilization of the "get Quickseller at all costs" mob

You make it sound like we're a posse hellbent on a lynching, but you are misrepresenting the situation quite dramatically.  First, you're neglecting the fact that many of this so-called mob has had these suspicions for well over six months.  Not one of the mob members went looking to tarnish PN7's account, and a neutral review by suchmoon was sufficient for most of us.

So, who spurred this latest bout of drama?  I would suggest the majority of the blame should rest squarely on PrimeNumber7 himself for nominating himself for the "newbie of the year" contest.  None of this would be an issue if he would have been content to build his account remain below the radar.

Even after the drama started to unfold, in the first post I made on the subject I said the following:

If PN7 truly is QS (which I believe to be the case) and his goal is to rank-up and earn signature bounties, I really don't care, and wish him luck.  

So, please stop trying to make this sound like some witch hunt by a bunch blood-thirsty Quickseller hunters.  The facts don't support your hyperbole.

That is exactly what this is. That is exactly what Quickseller is guilty of himself. You all just want to have it both ways where it is excusable for you but not for him. Oh wow, they were making accusations for over 6 months! Clearly that makes the claims more useful and valid because they repeated it over and over.

[suchmoon]

Yeah, you're right. I am the one who started multiple threads over this. The fact that I posted, in them, clearly that is the problem.

Not really. You're welcome to express your opinion like everyone else.

You skipped the "call it a day" part.

I don't mind calling it a day unless you have any more concerns on the topic, which I'd be happy to answer.

you said yourself, your true motive here is to keep him out of signature campaigns, etc---petty personal disputes. that is what you are doing here:

As I've said before, to me the issue here is the thoroughly deceptive way Quickseller is trying to sockpuppet his way into whatever it is that he wants to achieve - to earn from sig campaigns, or to regain his DT "powers", or to prove that account farming is cool... who knows.

Thank you for trying to explain my motives to me but you might want to re-read my post, particularly the bolded part.

I wouldn't mind Quickseller working towards his goals in an honest and transparent way, as I've mentioned more than once already.

[figmentofmyass]

So, please stop trying to make this sound like some witch hunt by a bunch blood-thirsty Quickseller hunters.  The facts don't support your hyperbole.

That is exactly what this is. That is exactly what Quickseller is guilty of himself. You all just want to have it both ways where it is excusable for you but not for him.

nail on the head. people around here are engaging in the exact sort of things quickseller is so hated for---endless unproven accusations and grudges, absurd rationalizations for their unsavory behavior, etc. why do they expect be looked upon with favor after this?

default trust members should be mature and reasonable adults. they aren't supposed to act like fucking quickseller at his worst!

I wouldn't mind Quickseller working towards his goals in an honest and transparent way, as I've mentioned more than once already.

your opinion that quickseller is supposedly being deceptive doesn't address the "engaging in unproven witch hunts" aspect.

I don't mind calling it a day unless you have any more concerns on the topic, which I'd be happy to answer.

you're willing to call it a day after the witch hunt is over. that's comforting.

[suchmoon]

your opinion that quickseller is supposedly being deceptive doesn't address the "engaging in unproven witch hunts" aspect.....

I'm just correcting your almost 180-degree misinterpretation of my intent, again. Seeing how your "witch hunt" argument originates from that misinterpretation there is nothing I can add to it. If you think that I did something wrong with the PN7 == QS suspicion then you should probably exclude me from your trust list.

[figmentofmyass]

I'm just correcting your almost 180-degree misinterpretation of my intent, again.

again, that doesn't address the fact that you engage in unproven witch hunts against other people. that you think quickseller is deceptive doesn't "prove" anything and it doesn't make this thread any less of a "witch hunt".

Seeing how your "witch hunt" argument originates from that misinterpretation

just......no. your grasp of logic is flat out puzzling.

what you wrote was extremely transparent. i believe people in this thread are capable of seeing through this attempt at rationalization.

anyway, this whole culture is super embarrassing for the forum IMO. why can't we just have a normal reputation system with minimal drama? "is there a scam happening? no? move on".......that's how things should work.

you know, pretty much the opposite of how things work now: "there's an unproven accusation about an alt connection 'floating around'? let's put on a show trial and see if we can nail this guy!"

there are people around here who have the power to change things. it starts with taking the high road and not turning every little past disagreement into a perpetually overblown petty drama that you subject the rest of the forum to. what you and nutildah did here saved precisely zero people from being scammed. it was purely vindictive and that's obvious on its face. i still fail to see any justifiable reason to engage in this kind of behavior.

anyway, you're gonna keep rationalizing your witch hunts and it's not gonna convince me, so i believe we're at an impasse. i'll steer clear of your next witch hunt since obviously nothing is gonna change. just wanted to make my opinion known for all the other people out there who are naturally looking at the current trust/reputation system in disgust.

[owlcatz]

[DireWolfM14]

if you had left things at that (neutral feedback months ago), we wouldn't be having this discussion.

But that was my point in my previous post; i.e. Suchmoon did leave a neutral and call it a day, months ago.  He didn't start this thread, Nutildah did.  He didn't start the previous thread, some butthurt newbie did.  He didn't start this drama, PrimeNumber7 did when he nominated himself.

And Suchmoon certainly doesn't need me defending him, he's quite capable.

If PN7 truly is QS (which I believe to be the case) and his goal is to rank-up and earn signature bounties, I really don't care, and wish him luck.

i feel the same way, i mean, who the fuck cares?

but apparently you and suchmoon are polar opposites in this respect.....

I don't know where you get the notion that Suchmoon and I need to agree on everything.  Suchmoon and I do share the concern of PN7 marching his way towards DT.  That would be detrimental, in my opinion.  But, if he earns a few sats on a signature campaign, that doesn't trigger my concern.

However, Quickseller isn't stalking me.  He hasn't spend the better part of two years trying to dox me.  So, understandably, I don't have the same emotional reaction that Suchmoon may have towards his continued deceitful methods.

[suchmoon]

the fact

Right. Shit you make up is a fact and you know me better than I do

I would suggest that you start a new thread to expose my dirty deeds but you're such an anti-witch-hunter and high-road-rider that you'd rather derail this one.

My Friday beverage beckons so I must go without responding to your latest batch of fallacies, please don't take it personally.

[TECSHARE]

However, Quickseller isn't stalking me.  He hasn't spend the better part of two years trying to dox me.  So, understandably, I don't have the same emotional reaction that Suchmoon may have towards his continued deceitful methods.

I have however been a target of Quickseller over a span of years, yet some how that doesn't count does it?

[Timelord2o67]

I wonder if chipmixer feels they are getting their $6 per post worth out of bickering posts such as this:

...

(Can you see where I'm going with this people?)