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Author Topic: Should DT and Merit Source Members Be Promoting A Known Scam?  (Read 2030 times)
JollyGood
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January 21, 2020, 02:59:39 PM
Last edit: January 21, 2020, 10:13:09 PM by JollyGood
Merited by Foxpup (6), mindrust (5), The Pharmacist (3), Lauda (2), marlboroza (2), BayAreaCoins (1), Timelord2067 (1), nutildah (1), Coolcryptovator (1)
 #1

~snip~

Other than leaving red trust for Yobit and just one Yobit signature promoter (because of his condescending conduct and deliberate misdirection not failure to justify why he was a die-hard Yobit promoter), I did not leave feedback for Yobit signature promoter.

In my view anybody promoting a scam are guilty of being a scam too simply by association but more important than that is the view I hold they are most probably more ignorant than anything else therefore I do not leave red trust for that reason alone. Had signature promoters investigated the facts fully then most would probably not participate in those scam campaigns.


When it comes to Yobit, I have made my position/opinion clear in several places and would like to re-iterate it here before going further.

In my case, for the sole reason of promoting Yobit, before starting this thread I had given red trust to just one user: Yobit (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=406594)

I might have tagged other users for other reasons and stated them but never tagged a user just for showing Yobit banners. It just so happens that Yobit forms part of the conversation here some users mentioned and alluded to below promote it. Everybody has their own view on this issue and those similar to it but in my personal opinion if a user is promoting Yobit they should not deserve a tag on the basis of that alone.

Whether promoting a Yobit banner or any other banner it should not warrant a tag unless there are exceptional circumstances. I have not come across any exceptional circumstances that fit that description yet except for user Vispilio because he has openly stated he is promting a banner in full knowledge it is a scam and that is unacceptable. The banner he promotes could be from LLC1 or LTD2 or Company3, it would make no difference but it just so happens to be a Yobit banner.

It was only because of the sheer ferocity and aggression that Yobit was being defended by a some users I was not familiar towards end of December 2019/early January 2020 that I took a closer look at what was going on. It seemed that some of the members had been part of a merit abuse and fake trust circle which was designed to help them to DT1. Some had more evidence against them than others whereas some were able to semi-distance themselves.



wolwoo's merit source desire: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5205906.0
Have you seen Yobit's new signature design?: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5211902.0
Yobit campaign participants and supporters: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5212036.0
*Reference topic: Why are these members excluded on trust lists?: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5098623.msg53430210#msg53430210

*This one has special significance because Loyce clearly shows wolwoo being part of a trust circle BUT he is trusted by DT member: Vispilio

In posts from the links at no point did Vispilio make any positive intercession considering he has a special relationship with wolwoo and some others from their local language boards. The general flow of the posts linked above he seemed to egg-on subtly by default backing wolwoo in his aggression and profanities which in turn showed that this person is not suitable for any responsibility as far as this forum is concerned.

His personal insults towards myself or other members are not the issue here, though it sheds some light on his mentality but I want to ask the community if someone making the following statement is an appropriate person to be either Merit Source or DT and ask if you think he is behaving in a manner that is fit for either role. For me this statement from Vispilio raises concerns:


Yobit controls when they stop supporting a coin, and Yobit knows that this will hurt many of its investors. Without any moral conviction they will move onto their next token, and promote that with 10% interest, and the whole process starts again. They'll continue supporting it until they believe it'll earn more by promoting a new, and exciting token. Investors will try to jump in early this time because they know the coin will be dropped eventually, and investors will be looking to get rid of the coin until it eventually reaches 1 satoshi, and no one buys it.

Any investor who sees an instrument / scheme / crypto is offering 10% daily should be responsible enough to walk away knowing that such an interest rate cannot be mathematically sustained without total devaluation of the traded product...

On the other hand, offering interest rates for BTC holdings is a legitimate benefit, which the invest box also seems to provide, and no one has come forward in years that Yobit has stolen from the accounts or anything criminal like that; thus the exchange's continued popularity...

Not to mention there are free coins and various other bonuses offered by Yobit, obviously other promotional tactics to market their brand...

It shouldn't be a categorical offense to promote an exchange that is providing some valid services, simply because some other fringe products it offers are highly likely to lead to investors losing money...

So according to Vispilio it is completely acceptable to promote a company that has some products and services that he himself accepts are a fraud/scam. The reason he cites is because the company also has some products which cannot be confirmed as scams therefore it is perfectly fine to promote it.

This raises a fundamental problem so if a user knows/accepts/states he is promoting a scam but defends either the scam itself or his promoting of it - or even more shamefully if a user implies investors are to blame if they get scammed and become victims because they should be responsible enough to walk away knowing various interest rates cannot be mathematically sustained (ie ponzi) - but will still display the banner promoting the scam, then that sort of thinking is clearly is at odds with the morals and values that any sensible user should have let alone DT or Merit Source member should have.



Furthermore the following are not examples of how anybody with DT really should be behaving, I think playing the "race" card and shouting "victim" is one of the lowest forms of behaviour that any user could stoop to but using that as an excuse for misdirection, diversion and deflection tactics when either Merit Source or DT ranked makes it even more ridiculous than it should be:

Please don't involve me in your little DT games, it's extremely boring. If you have a problem / extreme butthurt with Turkish users gaining representation,

take it up with theymos instead of employing NPC trolls to do your dirty work like your newly anointed zealous thrall JollyGood above... Good Luck


I don't have a problem with Turkish users, nice try making it about nationality again. A great example of flawed judgment exhibited by a yet another DT1 member.

I have a problem with you playing that card, as well as with idiots in general getting into DT1 so I will point that out whether you like it or not.



Here again Vispilio re-iterates that Yobit is a scam, he calls it a pyramid scheme yet he justifies promoting it by simply saying that users "knowingly chasing these kinds of things, looking to get in early and get out before the scam falls apart". This again is conduct not appropriate for a user with any responsibility attached to them.


How much have you personally invested into InvestBox and the non-scammy X10 token? With 10% daily profit, think of how much money you'll make! I bet that everyone here defending the X10 token has not purchased any themselves nor would they ever consider it, knowing the dump scheme that will happen. Random people clicking your signature won't know about that and might think it's actually legitimate.

edit: Or, would you, in good faith, recommend that someone invest into X10 token for 10% daily interest?

This point is pretty much moot now because they changed their signature, but I'd still like to hear a response.

(and before someone resorts to personal attacks, yes I've used ChipMixer and I've bet over 15 BTC at sportsbet.io)

No one in his right mind should invest in X10, it's obviously a pyramid scheme.

Yet there are people knowingly chasing these kinds of things, looking to get in early and get out before the scam falls apart...

Like the price of X10 briefly went from 22 sat to 30 sats yesterday, someone could have bought in, made 10% overnight, and cashed out at around 20% higher for overall profits of 30% in 1 day...

I wouldn't recommend anyone to trade this way or advertise ponzis, but the fact remains there are people who are convinced they can beat the schemers / gambling sites / sports bookies at their own game, and they deliberately pursue rigged products...



Here Vispilio makes another absurd comment because there is no comparison between Chipmixer and Yobit. As far as I know, Chipmixer has no scam allegations against it but he himself calls Yobit a scam yet still promotes it:

Well, at least this discussion has opened our eyes to the users who have morals, and those that are willing to lie down their morals for gain. The moderators, and Yahoo's opinion matter not, and even theymos' doesn't matter on this particular issue. However, what you decide for yourself does matter.

You either choose to continue earning a good living with Yobit's shenanigans or you keep your respect. I don't think you can keep both. Also, no one here is blaming Yahoo, and I'm not sure why users are even mentioning that fact. No one here is calling out Yahoo. Its quite clear that Yobit have terrible customer support, and communication even with someone they have hired.

Considering that its a law to offer customer support here in the UK, and they are willing to put that so low on their priority list speaks volumes. The whole company is unprofessional, and all they care about is earning a quick buck as evidenced by this InvestBox shit.

No matter what one's moral views are, a BTT user should not be penalized for promoting one of the most well known crypto exchanges.

Many crypto exchanges are engaging in unethical practices like fake volume, pump & dump schemes, shitcoin IEO's, etc. and yet they are still highly popular because they also manage to fulfill some really valuable duties like market efficiency and liquidity.

As numerous users have already noted, an analogy can be drawn between promoting Chipmixer and Yobit's InvestBox:

you can choose to be a smart investor and use Investbox to make 0.1% on your BTC monthly without ever investing in any of the shit coins, or you may choose to be a gambler and pursue some short term wild gains in the massively inflated shitcoins (similarly Chipmixer service can be used for illicit activites, yet the marketer cannot and should not be held accountable for a potential abuse of a service that has other net benefits to the ecosystem)...

I agree the wording of the signature can be revised to be more honest, but trying to frame hundreds of Cryptotalk / Yobit participants would be one of the most harmful things this forum can do to herself and its user base...



I wish to re-iterate the tag for I left for Vispilio and the issues mentioned in this thread are based purely on the basis of the way Vispilio conducts himself and is not based on him being part of any local language group or anything else. There is no conspiracy against him or the group that he holds in high regard, some of which were dropped by DT members after accusations of merit abuse and fake trust circles came to light.


In simple terms, if a user promotes a scam but does not believe or accept it is a scam, then it is up to the community to present evidence to show them they are wrong.

If however a user openly states he knows he is promoting a scam and then fault blames victims for getting scammed then that clearly shows the user is unsuitable for any responsible role.



I ask the community, do you think it appropriate for any Merit Source or DT member to to be in a position of either trust or responsibility after reading the statements outlined?

A final comment from Vispilio with a countering view that I cannot see any considerable contributions made by Yobit to crypto space. I do however see a user that is willing to say and do anything to keep getting paid by Yobit to display their banner but probably would dump them in the blink of an eye and start promoting another banner.

~snip~

No one is contesting that the investbox ad was misleading and had ponzi like components, but in the bigger picture, Yobit's efforts are making considerable contributions to the crypto space, amidst a dark extended bearish period when many participants have already surrendered and gone home to drink tall glasses of milk  Wink...


So, should DT or Merit Source members be promoting a known scam? The answer has to be a resounding "no" especially when that member self-admits he is promoting a scam.

This is just one of several examples of how the trust system is not working as it should when users such as Vispilio make it on to DT or Merit Source.

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January 21, 2020, 04:34:30 PM
 #2

I think wolwoo should stop promoting YoBit so everyone can move on. As a side note, I think the same is true for Yahoo, including him managing (or whatever he is calling it)   

If this means the spam is bad for a few days from YoBit posters, then YoBit signatures will get banned again.


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JollyGood
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January 21, 2020, 04:44:48 PM
 #3

Right on cue....  Roll Eyes


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January 21, 2020, 04:58:12 PM
Merited by mindrust (2)
 #4

It's up to DT1 to clean DT. In wolwoo's case, that works just fine: wolwoo (Trust: +2 / =1 / -3) (DT1 (-8) 413 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP).

Merit sources are up to theymos, and as far as I know his application has not been accepted. I can't really judge his Merit sending judgement because I can't read most of the posts, but if his judgement on Trust is a indicator for this, it's not good.

Since scams aren't moderated, I don't think promoting a scam is necessarily a reason to reject a Merit source application. Clear judgement is what's needed though, and anger tantrums aren't a good sign.

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January 21, 2020, 05:01:44 PM
Last edit: January 21, 2020, 05:12:50 PM by DireWolfM14
Merited by mindrust (1), JollyGood (1), akhjob (1)
 #5

I think wolwoo should stop promoting YoBit so everyone can move on. As a side note, I think the same is true for Yahoo, including him managing (or whatever he is calling it)   

If this means the spam is bad for a few days from YoBit posters, then YoBit signatures will get banned again.

Yahoo62278 has been a tremendous help to the forum for his participation.  Short of a permanent ban against the Yobit campaigns (no objections here) Yobit will continue find a way to spam the forum.  So far theymos has been unwilling to ban the company from advertising on the forum.  Unless or until that happens, we don't have any better option than hoping yahoo62278 continues in his current roll.



For someone who wants to be a merit source and on Default Trust, don't you think that you should demonstrate better judgement, follow the rules, and lead by example?

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January 21, 2020, 05:17:47 PM
 #6

Yobit as a whole is cancer, but the user in question isnt spamming or fucking the forum.

Suggesting Yahoo not do the campaign is crazy dude, he is a great manager and is needed if we want to stop all the shitposting pajeets causing us all eyecancer. The only other option is to ban all yobit sigs IMO

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January 21, 2020, 05:26:44 PM
Merited by Timelord2067 (1)
 #7

I think wolwoo should stop promoting YoBit so everyone can move on. As a side note, I think the same is true for Yahoo, including him managing (or whatever he is calling it)  

If this means the spam is bad for a few days from YoBit posters, then YoBit signatures will get banned again.


I am sorry to highlight it but this thread is not about Yahoo62278 or his management of Yobit campaigns.

This thread is specifically about the manner in which a DT member has claimed he knowingly is promoting a scam and has added at least one merit abuser and fake trust user to his trust list.

I kindly request all to post on topic please. Thank you.

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January 21, 2020, 05:34:02 PM
 #8

I think wolwoo should stop promoting YoBit so everyone can move on. As a side note, I think the same is true for Yahoo, including him managing (or whatever he is calling it)   

If this means the spam is bad for a few days from YoBit posters, then YoBit signatures will get banned again.


I am sorry to highlight it but this thread is not about Yahoo62278 or his management of Yobit campaigns.

This thread is specifically about the manner in which a DT member has claimed he knowingly is promoting a scam and has added at least one merit abuser and fake trust user to his trust list.

I kindly request all to post on topic please. Thank you.
I guess my point is that I think no one should be promoting YoBit. I am not sure but I think yahoo is on DT.

I don’t think it is unreasonable to hold merit sources and DT members to a higher standard, so it would be even more important they not promote YoBit. But just because someone is not on DT or not a merit source doesn’t mean I think it should be okay for them to promote a scam.


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January 21, 2020, 05:35:19 PM
 #9

Yobit as a whole is cancer, but the user in question isnt spamming or fucking the forum.

Yobit is a cancer, not just to the forum, but for crypto in general.  But the two users identified by JollyGood in the opening post wore the signature quoted below, which is obviously a pump-and-dump scheme being used by Yobit to scam their clients.  Promoting another forum or a shady exchange is one thing, promoting an obvious scam is another.




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January 21, 2020, 05:43:17 PM
 #10

Yobit as a whole is cancer, but the user in question isnt spamming or fucking the forum.

Yobit is a cancer, not just to the forum, but for crypto in general.  But the two users identified by JollyGood in the opening post wore the signature quoted below, which is obviously a pump-and-dump scheme being used by Yobit to scam their clients.  Promoting another forum or a shady exchange is one thing, promoting an obvious scam is another.




Oh I didn’t even see that, shit I don’t have the headspace or time for this. But maybe a full on yobit ban is due

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January 21, 2020, 05:46:59 PM
Merited by Blacknavy (1)
 #11

... But the two users identified by JollyGood in the opening post wore the signature quoted below, which is obviously a pump-and-dump scheme being used by Yobit to scam their clients.  Promoting another forum or a shady exchange is one thing, promoting an obvious scam is another.





I neither defended nor promoted the X10 signature, I can only surmise that your shameless lie, as well as the entirety of the slanderous fictive scenarios that the troll JollyGood spits out on a daily basis are at least partially motivated by the petty games you play to win a coveted spot from the Chipmixer signature...

Your Middle Eastern ancestors would spit on your face if they knew you would stoop to dishonorable lies for a few dollars more,
and I promise you I would teach you a lesson that your ancestors would be proud of, if you were to try any of this duplicitous bullshit in person, Mr. DireHyena...

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January 21, 2020, 05:56:21 PM
Last edit: January 22, 2020, 07:00:28 PM by JollyGood
Merited by Foxpup (3), YOSHIE (1)
 #12

It's up to DT1 to clean DT. In wolwoo's case, that works just fine: wolwoo (Trust: +2 / =1 / -3) (DT1 (-8) 413 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP).

Merit sources are up to theymos, and as far as I know his application has not been accepted. I can't really judge his Merit sending judgement because I can't read most of the posts, but if his judgement on Trust is a indicator for this, it's not good.

Since scams aren't moderated, I don't think promoting a scam is necessarily a reason to reject a Merit source application. Clear judgement is what's needed though, and anger tantrums aren't a good sign.
Yes it worked very well with regards to wolwoo because he was not a suitable candidate by any stretch of the imagination.

Anger issues and throwing the race card around for diversion tactics when all else fails are not a sign of clear judgement, nor is the manner is which he seems to find nothing wrong with what his close ally from the local board wolwoo is doing, hence the trust he left for him:




Going back to main point raised in the OP, it is clear that a DT member has openly said/accepted he knows he is promoting a scam. Instead of stopping he has decided to blame victims for getting scammed.



Yobit as a whole is cancer, but the user in question isnt spamming or fucking the forum.

Suggesting Yahoo not do the campaign is crazy dude, he is a great manager and is needed if we want to stop all the shitposting pajeets causing us all eyecancer. The only other option is to ban all yobit sigs IMO
You are right the user does not seem to be spamming in the forum but he has stated of his own accord that to him Yobit is a scam but for some inexplicable reason (other than making money) he continues to promote it and decides victims are to blame if they get scammed - therefore the question arises if this is the sort of user that should be on DT?

In my opinion it is a categoric "no" he should not be on DT therefore I asked the question in the OP hoping for a general consensus.



~snip~

I kindly request all to post on topic please. Thank you.
I guess my point is that I think no one should be promoting YoBit. I am not sure but I think yahoo is on DT.

I don’t think it is unreasonable to hold merit sources and DT members to a higher standard, so it would be even more important they not promote YoBit. But just because someone is not on DT or not a merit source doesn’t mean I think it should be okay for them to promote a scam.
All users who promote scams should be held to account but the difference between those that promote it in the belief it is not a scam versus those that promote it knowing it is a scam are two different things altogether. The distinction between the two is huge. In the case of  Vispilio he has made it clear he believes Yobit is a scam and is happy to blame victims for falling to the scam that he promotes. In the case of other users, I have not read them say they believe they are promoting a scam (maybe just wolwoo who in one of the threads linked in the OP might have let it slip once or twice while he was spouting profanities or being highly obnoxious).

To be on DT means having extra responsibility and being extra careful about the manner in which you conduct yourself. Even if all other bits of questionable conduct from Vispilio might be overlooked for the sake of benefits of doubts, I believe there no way whatsoever that any user who admits or accepts that they willing and knowingly are promoting a scam (and furthermore blame victims for getting scammed) should be on DT.

And I agree with you, I think those on MS and DT should be held to a higher standard because there is responsibility attached in the manner in which they conduct themselves.

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January 21, 2020, 06:09:15 PM
Merited by Blacknavy (1)
 #13


~~~ further insane babble


Never have I said Yobit is a scam, or blamed the "victims" or any of your other insane stories. Who are these fictitious victims by the way ?   Roll Eyes

You start a false narrative then come to write novels about it every day here, you are either a child or a certifiable lunatic who needs help, how did you ever get on DT ?..

If lunatics like this guy are allowed to run rampant and smear and slander everyone as they see fit (or as they are ordered to do so by their puppet masters),
then soon no one will be able to take this forum seriously,

When does admin & staff feel it's high time to interfere ?...

A user cannot be reasonably expected to have to come here and respond to the craziest of stories every day just to maintain a reputation on an internet forum... Certainly the responsibility falls at least partially to paid staff members to keep the sanity of this place in check, wouldn't you agree ?..

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January 21, 2020, 06:12:29 PM
 #14

... But the two users identified by JollyGood in the opening post wore the signature quoted below, which is obviously a pump-and-dump scheme being used by Yobit to scam their clients.  Promoting another forum or a shady exchange is one thing, promoting an obvious scam is another.





I neither defended nor promoted the X10 signature, I can only surmise that your shameless lie, as well as the entirety of the slanderous fictive scenarios that the troll JollyGood spits out on a daily basis are at least partially motivated by the petty games you play to win a coveted spot from the Chipmixer signature...

Your Middle Eastern ancestors would spit on your face if they knew you would stoop to dishonorable lies for a few dollars more,
and I promise you I would teach you a lesson that your ancestors would be proud of, if you were to try any of this duplicitous bullshit in person, Mr. DireHyena...

So here is a DT member that likes playing the the "race" card himself (just as wolwoo does) as and when he feels like it but has decided to use race/heritage himself in a reply to a post that contained nothing worthy of getting aggressive for.

There was no need to mention any racial heritage or background but those with petty, low levels of thinking and a false sense of either racial, religious or class superiority or are living with self-bloated belief of hierarchical existence over others just might keep bringing up race as and when it suits their mood.

Retaliatory feedback is not permitted. I gave him plenty of time between tagging him today and tagging his close friends including wolwoo nearly a whole month ago but he did not leave any negative trust for me. As soon as I created this thread I tagged him appropriately and then he leaves retaliatory feedback even though it is not allowed. Another clear reason why this user should not be on DT.

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January 21, 2020, 06:13:27 PM
 #15

~

I will admit the only person I saw wearing that signature was wolwoo.  If you did not, then please accept my apology for suggesting you did.

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ONLINE
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BOOSTS
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PAYMENTS
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January 21, 2020, 06:19:55 PM
 #16

I think wolwoo should stop promoting YoBit so everyone can move on. As a side note, I think the same is true for Yahoo, including him managing (or whatever he is calling it)   

If this means the spam is bad for a few days from YoBit posters, then YoBit signatures will get banned again.
This is a great point! The underlying root cause of the YoBit spammers promoting a scam exchange is they want to receive the monitory reward that Yobit pays out. I agree that wolwoo should immidiately remove his signature and maybe the OP will forgive him.

Even if you give YoBit the maximum benefit of the doubt, they are still very shady and have engaged in many pump and dump scams and appear to be willing to sell a listing on their exchange for next to nothing. I don’t think YoBit being a scam is even boarder line, it is very clear cut. I think YoBit should be transparently a scam to everyone else. This is not me trying to sow discord within those promoting this exchange.

I don’t think Rodger Ver is allowing YoBit to advertise on his forum.

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January 21, 2020, 06:24:18 PM
 #17

Quote
Should DT and Merit Source Members Be Promoting A Known Scam?
DT or Not. None should promote a known scam.



BTW, does this really belong to Meta  Huh If a DT is doing wrong, start a thread in Reputation, convince other DT members to add him to the distrust list. Simple as that. Why drag this to Meta?


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January 21, 2020, 06:25:46 PM
 #18





No members should be wearing this, never mind someone on DT! promoting yocunts is one thing, promoting something that is an obvious scam is something else - I actually think OP did a good job of bringing this to light, simple solution is for wolwoo to remove the sig and move on. In the future he needs to be careful with what he promotes, everyone gets a chance to make things right surely?

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January 21, 2020, 06:40:08 PM
 #19





No members should be wearing this, never mind someone on DT! promoting yocunts is one thing, promoting something that is an obvious scam is something else - I actually think OP did a good job of bringing this to light, simple solution is for wolwoo to remove the sig and move on. In the future he needs to be careful with what he promotes, everyone gets a chance to make things right surely?
Wolwoo is out of the campaign, if he continues wearing the sig I cannot stop him.

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January 21, 2020, 06:56:57 PM
 #20





No members should be wearing this, never mind someone on DT! promoting yocunts is one thing, promoting something that is an obvious scam is something else - I actually think OP did a good job of bringing this to light, simple solution is for wolwoo to remove the sig and move on. In the future he needs to be careful with what he promotes, everyone gets a chance to make things right surely?
Wolwoo is out of the campaign, if he continues wearing the sig I cannot stop him.
Bravo you fired the only man who defended yobit
 Cheesy I go and wearing chipmixer (it's a joke)

I like yobit
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