Suggestion to make rank-up more difficult

[GazetaBitcoin]

I already accepted a challenge (see up). Up to theymos if he will accept it

[libert19]

Dude, getting 1k merits is no easy pie, we must find a middle ground and current system is fine, not too easy and not to harsh.

[The Cryptovator]

OP have earned most of big amount merit from Art contest, and that's he is wondering earn merit is very easy task. I know, it is possible even you can achieve Legendary rank by earn merit. But don't forget there might not another art contest. Merit earning isn't hard for good contributors, but it's not very easy for all over forum users. I believe 50% users still didn't earned single merits. That means earning merit is very difficult for them.

For me, current merit system and rank system working fine. Why should ee discourage new users to join this forum by implement something hard. Just let to go as it is.

[Jet Cash]

If you really want to learn about the emerging crypto economy, and you work with other members to improve your own knowledge, and that of others, then merits will trickle in. Most of my merits have arrived in one and twos, and I used to get a bit stressed when I saw people  getting 50 or so merits for posts that weren't really about Bitcoin. I got a few 50d in the early days of merit. but recently it is rare for me to receive an award greater than 2. In theory I don't need any now, but merits are an indication of community approval for some of my ideas. However, constructive replies to posts are better and more useful.

With regards to the OP, I don't think we need to make the structure more difficult, but in my opinion, the board would be improved if merits were awarded more frequently, but in smaller quantities. It would also be useful if we could return to the concept of broadening knowledge about Bitcoin, and get away from the obsession with scratching for free money from crypto. Merits should be used to improve the quality of the forum, and not to help people to avoid having to work for a living.

[mole0815]

before the merits were added it was already relatively easy. it was enough to write a few posts and the rest was done by time.
now things are different and it is not as easy as you might think. you got ~60 merits at the art contest. that is almost a third of all merits you got so far.

and the higher the rank the more difficult it is to get them because users feel that they are more likely to fall into lower ranks in the distribution.
i would not make the system more difficult in any case because i think it is very fair at the moment

[GazetaBitcoin]

I understand that you think the system is fair now and I respect your opinion.

However, why you (but also others) keep mentioning the art contest, as it would be an airdrop? That art contest consisted in hours of work for realizing art. In case you (or others) didn't take part of the contest, or in case you don't know what efforts are needed to create, then you should think again.

The art contest was no airdrop. The merits awarded there were for effort, for hours of labour, therefore I really don't understand why it matters if someone earned 300 merits there or 10. They were not airdropped; they were given for real work.

Do you think it is easier to create art compared to write a quality posting? If so, let's think about how many good artist are now in the world (no matter the field). Are they millions? Are they hundreds of thousands? I doubt. Now let's compare the total number of artists in the world with the total number of good journalists (who write quality stuff, similar to what is required from the forum's users as well). So how many journalists (good journalists) are there? Probably millions. The same happened here: there are two millions of forum users but only a few were given (more or less) merits during the contest. Writing is a thing, art is another thing. And the effort for creation process is bigger than for writing a quality post. You can write a good post maybe in 1h (or 2h or 3h or 10h), but some art creations realized by the participants took days.

That being said, I would expect more respect for those who created art pieces during the contest, instead of contesting the way they earned their merits.

Most likely, all those who keep mentioning the art contest, think it was an easy, effortless job. But that's wrong. However, OP was not determined by the merits I earned from the art contest, but by the opinion I have about how easy / hard is to earn merits. If you act normally and try to be a good user, the merits will most likely come to you.

[mole0815]

The art contest was no airdrop. The merits awarded there were for effort, for hours of labour, therefore I really don't understand why it matters if someone earned 300 merits there or 10. They were not airdropped; they were given for real work.

it was no attack against you GazetaBitcoin and the work that went into the art contest deserves my highest respect.
but you have to be honest that it's hard to get the merits you want when you're trying so hard to get them.
how it can work is shown by some examples. there are even many instructions with valuable tips.

it is not so easy to rise in rank and therefore the requirements are in my opinion high enough.
the goal should be to be a meaningful member of the board for everyone anyway and then the rest will happen by itself.

you belong to a select circle of users where merit is above activity. this is not the case for everyone and some users have a really hard time delivering good content.
but fortunately with this topic, as with all other topics, there are different meanings and views

[GazetaBitcoin]

it was no attack against you GazetaBitcoin and the work that went into the art contest deserves my highest respect.

you belong to a select circle of users where merit is above activity.

Thank you for appreciating the efforts of the participants in the contest (including mine), mole0815. It means a lot.
However, this is your opinion. Somehow, based on the upper-written comments, I had (have) the feeling that some suggest that earning merits during that contest was too easy. I ensure them it was not. For example, my drawings took several hours. But ask the guy who created the game how many hours he dedicated for that. Ask Yatsan how many hours he spent for the sublime paintings he made. And so on...

And about belonging to that select circle, what can I say... I am happy of being part of it, I am happy for bringing good contributions here and I thank those who appreciated them. I acted with good faith and I hoped that some of my words / thoughts can bring a plus of value.

[UserU]

IMHO, the current rankup system is fine.

Other forums just rely on post counts, while this one requires Merits along with Activity to rank up. And not every post or thread is Merited so imagine people like me slowly grinding my way through just to reach Full Member, let alone Senior, Hero and beyond.

[Pmalek]

@GazetaBitcoin
You are suggesting to make something that is for many already a difficult task, even harder. It is not that easy to get to legendary. You make it sound like we have 1000s of legendaries here who earned the rank with merits. Don't forget that many legendaries were airdropped a lot of merits so they, actually we, had that bit of help. But many still earned 500 + merits and it is not easy.

You have been here since day 1 of the merit system, why don't you have 1000 merits? or 500 merits. If that was the case and you earned those merits easily, this topic could have received different responses.
Fair enough, your merit count to activity ratio is great and you don't post that often I assume, but do you really think it is that easy? You said it yourself. You had to devote hours and hours for your artwork. It was difficult to make it. For the effort you put in you were awarded... I don't know how much, I didn't check, but some members says it's a lot so lets say 50 merits altogether. Would you rather that you received 5 or just 2 if everyone was so strict?       

[GazetaBitcoin]

Pmalek, read my previous reply here - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5220580.msg53698619#msg53698619

I started earning merits in October or November 2019, as I was inactive until then. So I earned 205 merits in 3-4 months.

[Chlotide]

So I earned 205 merits in 3-4 months.

Not all humans are equal!
Glad it worked out for you. Congrats again! Just enjoy, keep posting useful stuff and good luck on your road to 1k and beyond. If theymos doesn't start posting soon he will drop on second most merited ) You're on fire dawg!
Now on a serious note, if it ain't broken, don't fix it is the phrase mostly used in coding. Same as some say "not your keys, not your btc". You got your feedback. There is no REAL need to change the ranking system. This forum wants to help people, not create crypto rock stars.
Enough showing off already. Accept it and go on as usual.
Fuck it, it's very easy to become a legendary user here! Use the opportunity then. Be all that you can be!
Saw a thread a while back in Meta asking for more ranks after legendary (I'll add a link if I have time to search).. maybe you can bump that one and at 5k you become "insane in the blockchain" rank... donno... the hard cap is the limit!

[Rikafip]

I started earning merits in October or November 2019, as I was inactive until then. So I earned 205 merits in 3-4 months.

This is indeed a very good track record, and all this might be easy for you, but do you think that it is a good idea to base whole ranking system on the above average merit earners? And you fall into that group. As i said before, some middle ground is needed.
When asking to change something that can affect so many different people, you can't just look from your point of view, broader picture is needed. For example, have you checked the amount of people  that earned certain amount of merit ( e.g. 200 ) since the introduction of this system, and then evaluated whether that amount is too big/too small?
What i want to ask is, did you do the  ground work first, or this is purely based on your merit earning ability?

Somehow, based on the upper-written comments, I had (have) the feeling that some suggest that earning merits during that contest was too easy. I ensure them it was not. For example, my drawings took several hours. But ask the guy who created the game how many hours he dedicated for that. Ask Yatsan how many hours he spent for the sublime paintings he made. And so on...

So I suggest to raise the merit standards because it is way too easy to earn them.

See the similarity there?

[GazetaBitcoin]

@Chlotilde
Here is the link you were looking for: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5212330.0.

Btw this is my post in that topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5212330.msg53441314#msg53441314.

Besides that, I feel your frustration from your words but there is nothing I can do. I just stated a personal opinion, as anyone else. The difference though, between anyone else (including me) and you is that all the others talked politely and expressed ideas, while you are ironical here.

First you wanted to laugh about me and my opinion, saying why I am not legendary yet, considering I registered in 2017. You wanted to look smart, but you didn't, as I was inactive 2 years. You didn't bother to check my activity, just jumped on irony. You jumped though without looking where you'll land.

Now, seeing you made an embarassing mistake, you continue with irony.

You could just say what you are thinking in a politely manner, you know?

And if we talk about irony, I could tell you that you earned almost a half of your merits from my post. Most likely, from users who also didn't realize I was active here only 3 months. However, ironically speeking, you should be thankful, not ironical Without my topic you would have had a half of your merits.

[Chlotide]

Just felt a bit too much like pure bragging and nothing more. Guess that got me flamed. I am a imature prick most of the times but that doesn't mean I don't have pertinent opinions from time to time (the frequency of that is debatable).
GL & HF

P.S. I have no shame! Just saw that you were not understanding the message and were too focused on the irony (as you are again). Just tried to rephrase, not apologise.
P.S. Looking forward to your next thread so I can become Member 

[cryptoaddictchie]

Careful what you wish for mate. If theymos accept your challenge then it will really be the most challenging moment of your crypto life.

I did agree with you that art contest wasnt an easy task also for gaining merits. I did benefit on that contest too. But gaining there isnt enough to rank up alone on the Legendary rank. Some say it's hard cause literally its really difficult. But I understand your point about getting  to Legendary rank is easy maybe for those active and good poster which showcase improvement.

The good thing is you already realize how hard it is and you want to prove that yourself that you can in spite of every criticisim you being received here. Good luck on ranking up dude. I'll be happy to check what will be your contributions in the coming future and I'll bump into this post of you later on and see how close you are already to becoming a full fledged Legendary rank.

[GazetaBitcoin]

I started earning merits in October or November 2019, as I was inactive until then. So I earned 205 merits in 3-4 months.

This is indeed a very good track record, and all this might be easy for you, but do you think that it is a good idea to base whole ranking system on the above average merit earners? And you fall into that group. As i said before, some middle ground is needed.
When asking to change something that can affect so many different people, you can't just look from your point of view, broader picture is needed. For example, have you checked the amount of people  that earned certain amount of merit ( e.g. 200 ) since the introduction of this system, and then evaluated whether that amount is too big/too small?
What i want to ask is, did you do the  ground work first, or this is purely based on your merit earning ability?

Thank you for sharing your opinion (twice) here, Rikafip. Indeed I did not check the amount of people who earned a certain amount of merits in a given time. But this is not based only on my experience. I wrote in OP a few motives which made me think that. And I saw many reputable members here earning a lot of merits (well deserved) simply by acting with good faith in mind, trying to help the others and the forum. Which is normal, as oeleo stated as well, for example.

- practically, all you need in order to rank up is to be a honorable person and to wait.

That's pretty much how it's supposed to be. The merit system was designed to prevent spammers from ranking up, not to hinder good users. If you do the things you suggest - don't spam, don't scam, don't plagiarize, only make useful posts, learn, contribute, etc. - then you deserve to rank up without being hindered. The merit barrier, as you call it, rightfully shouldn't exist for these users, although arguable it still does. The merit barrier should only exist for the users who are here to spam, and it (largely) seems to be working in that regard.

Indeed, there are some elitist users here which have a merit vs activity ratio of 2:1, 3:1 or even 4:1. Such as you, Ddmr, Loyce or nullius, for example. I take off my hat in front of you (seriously, not ironic). Such achievement is almost impossible to earn. But I didn't think about this very select circle when I wrote the OP.

Somehow, based on the upper-written comments, I had (have) the feeling that some suggest that earning merits during that contest was too easy. I ensure them it was not. For example, my drawings took several hours. But ask the guy who created the game how many hours he dedicated for that. Ask Yatsan how many hours he spent for the sublime paintings he made. And so on...

So I suggest to raise the merit standards because it is way too easy to earn them.

See the similarity there?

That was a nice catch and a good point But the second quote was a bit taken out of context. I meant basically that it is harder for an artist to create art than for a journalist to write good topics and that's why the number of journalists writing high quality materials is much bigger than the number of artists. Then I compared that to the forum, where we can find many good contributors, but they are much more than the participants of the art contest. Think about there are over 2.000.000 registered users and only 600 or so participated in the contest. From those 2.000.000 users I'm sure there are much more than 600 good writers or good contributors. And most likely theymos appreciated as well that realizing a piece of art is hard, he decided to give more merits to those who participated in the contest. This is what I meant to say.

In the end, most of the people who replied here stated they don't think it is a good idea to make rank-up more difficult. In my country we have a saying: if you drink and someone tell you that you are drunk, you can argue; if two tell you that you're drunk you should go home and take a nap. Most likely, the majority is right and I am wrong. But remember, it was just a personal opinion, not a decision which would affect the forum. I just considered I can express freely an opinion.

The good thing is you already realize how hard it is and you want to prove that yourself that you can in spite of every criticisim you being received here. Good luck on ranking up dude. I'll be happy to check what will be your contributions in the coming future and I'll bump into this post of you later on and see how close you are already to becoming a full fledged Legendary rank.

Thank you for the encouragement, cryptoaddictchie, I appreciate it!
And indeed, is hard to swim against the stream, to say so. But criticism is good, as long it is based on rational allegations and expressed in a constructive manner. Not easy to take it, especially when it comes from a majority, but good overall. Makes you wonder if you are wrong.

[LoyceV]

I believe 50% users still didn't earned single merits. That means earning merit is very difficult for them.

The percentage is much higher: in the last 3 months, 121,235 users have been active. Many of those accounts are no doubt owned by the same person. In the past 2 years, 32,570 have received at least 1 Merit. It's no surprise that many of those are users can be found in countless bounty threads.

I think the straggle to get merit is same to all. For newbies it is considered more difficult

To get Merit, you need 2 things:
1. Decent posts
2. Someone with sMerit to give needs to read your posts
You're not a spammer, so I've merited some of your posts.

The art contest was no airdrop. The merits awarded there were for effort, for hours of labour, therefore I really don't understand why it matters if someone earned 300 merits there or 10. They were not airdropped; they were given for real work.

It's not a problem that you earned a lot of Merit from the art contest. The problem will be for you to reproduce this amount and turn it into a consistent flow of Merit earnings.

[AimeHob]

I believe 50% users still didn't earned single merits. That means earning merit is very difficult for them.

The percentage is much higher: in the last 3 months, 121,235 users have been active. Many of those accounts are no doubt owned by the same person. In the past 2 years, 32,570 have received at least 1 Merit. It's no surprise that many of those are users can be found in countless bounty threads.

I think the straggle to get merit is same to all. For newbies it is considered more difficult

To get Merit, you need 2 things:
1. Decent posts
2. Someone with sMerit to give needs to read your posts
You're not a spammer, so I've merited some of your posts.

The art contest was no airdrop. The merits awarded there were for effort, for hours of labour, therefore I really don't understand why it matters if someone earned 300 merits there or 10. They were not airdropped; they were given for real work.

It's not a problem that you earned a lot of Merit from the art contest. The problem will be for you to reproduce this amount and turn it into a consistent flow of Merit earnings.

To be very honest. What I have found is that most of the people here just merit users with higher rank and do not prefer users with lower ranks. I do not know why maybe because they thing that they can get something in return? And yes I also believes that merit of newbies are really hard no matter how good they post.

I believe that merit is something that is free for everyone, anyone can have if he or she is posting constructively and helping the community or contributing.

Regards

[Rikafip]

To be very honest. What I have found is that most of the people here just merit users with higher rank and do not prefer users with lower ranks. I do not know why maybe because they thing that they can get something in return? And yes I also believes that merit of newbies are really hard no matter how good they post.

You got your first merit in your 3rd post on the forum, so it doesn't seem that it's really hard for newbies to get merit if they write decent posts.
There were bunch of merit giveaway threads aimed at the Newbies and Jr Member rank, but barely anyone was applying, to the point that they were locked in the end due low interest.