🏈🏈 The American Football Discussion Thread 🏈🏈

[DireWolfM14]

Yo, what just happened, Gronk coming off retirement? No more WWE?! 
There were some rumors but i didn't believe any of it to be true.
That Tampa Bay offense sounds amazing, at least on paper. Interesting to see how it all plays out on the field.

To be honest, I found it more surprising that Gronk retired last year.  I half expected him to take a year off and then join another team.  I suspect there was some personality conflicts between Gronk and Belichick.  Now he'll be reunited with his friend and mentor on what appears to be one of the better offenses in the league this year, but it's like you said; "on paper."

But I won't be holding my breath for the Bucs.  I've seen this too often to really expect anything grand.  They're in great position with their offensive line, but with two big names on the offense now, who're likely to side with each other could undermine the authority of the coach.  Two of the most successful and experienced players in the league are very likely to gain a lot of influence   If everyone one remains professional and keeps their egos out of the mix, they'll have a great season.  If not, strong personalities will come to conflict and leave the locker room divided.  I can just as easily see the Bucs' offense collapse under it's own weight.

Ooh. Just saw this thread for the first time. Following.

Welcome!

Lamb, Juedy and Ruggs are the three top receivers in this draft and all are projected to go 10-15. Justin Jefferson is relatively sure to get picked somewhere 20-25, with some others like Reagor, Aiyuk, Mims, Higgins not far behind.

I hope Lamb is available at #13! 

He's my favorite at the WR position, and since the 9ers lost Emanuel Sanders I'm a bit concerned.  Sanders was a big addition for us last year, and I was quite sad to see him go.  The other thing that concerns me; the Niners don't have any picks for rounds 2, 3, and 4.  If we don't get one of those top notch receivers, I wouldn't mind seeing us trade down and gain some picks.

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[South Park]

Yo, what just happened, Gronk coming off retirement? No more WWE?!  
There were some rumors but i didn't believe any of it to be true.
That Tampa Bay offense sounds amazing, at least on paper. Interesting to see how it all plays out on the field.
Though they might need to trade one of the other two TEs, probably OJ.

It depends on what the Tompa Bay... sorry, the Tampa Brady... damn, the Tampa Bay... phew, Gronkaneers (throws away the keyboard out of the window).

Anyways it depends, it seems they are actually looking to trade OJ Howard in which case they may be looking to get some value out of him, if Gronk performs at least to the same level and they get a 2nd or 3rd round pick out of OJ Howard then that is the same as exchanging their 4th round pick for a 7th and a 2nd or a 3rd pick which is not a bad business.

However a more interesting possibility is for TB to keep all of their TEs and play 12 personnel(2TEs, 2WRs and 1RB) more often, this was done in NE when they had Gronk and Hernandez(good player, horrible person) and it was very effective, in fact of all the offences NE ran over the years that was the one I liked the most.

[morvillz7z]

However a more interesting possibility is for TB to keep all of their TEs and play 12 personnel(2TEs, 2WRs and 1RB) more often, this was done in NE when they had Gronk and Hernandez(good player, horrible person) and it was very effective, in fact of all the offences NE ran over the years that was the one I liked the most.

If it was up to me id probably keep all three of them intact. Play Gronk exclusively on 3rd downs and red zone action, that way they will have him fresh for the postseason. I'd don't think that's going to happen though, i read earlier today that "Bucs Nearly Traded O.J. Howard For Trent Williams" (that was before TB got Brady...so who knows). Gut feeling, they will trade him.

[tyKiwanuka]

Lots of trade rumours flying around now. This goes from the Falcons trading up all the way to #2 to get Young, from the Dolphins jumping to #3 to get an OT for Tua while keeping their #5 pick to get him to the Giants having found a trade partner in Jacksonville. Jets also apparently looking to move up, to get an OT - these OT's seem to be highly valued and needed by a lot of teams This is good and entertaining to follow, but I guess only 1% of all those rumours will become reality. Even saw rumours about Herbert getting picked by the Giants, which would be hilarious in terms of dynamics in this draft.

I hope Lamb is available at #13! 

You have it in your own hands maybe


Source: https://www.betonline.ag/sportsbook/futures-and-props/nfl-draft

[morvillz7z]

How did the Cowboys get CeeDee Lamb @17? I don't think anyone had him slide past 13. Every mock draft that i've seen, he was somewhere between 10-13, crazy!

I expected Giants to maybe draft Wirfs, certainly top10, welp i guess Bucs keep winning the offseason. Watch out!

And the most shocking to me, and probably to everyone else watching the draft, was the Packers' pick - Jordan Love. Are they really trying to move away from Rodgers?

In case you missed it, Sportsbet has two Promos for the Draft running

How many did you get?

I'm with 10, trailing the leaders by just one with only two questions remaining. Unlikely for me to get to the top.

I seriously thought Lions would move down to 5, or maybe draft Derrick Brown instead of Okudah. I read that Matt Patricia was leaning towards Brown. Sigh.

And the one that really hurt me was how many LSU players will be drafted in the first round, i went with under 4.5
Chiefs drafted Clyde Edwards-Helaire with the last pick. This guy wasn't even the highest-ranked RB prospect. Why...whyyyy?

[tyKiwanuka]

How did the Cowboys get CeeDee Lamb @17? I don't think anyone had him slide past 13. Every mock draft that i've seen, he was somewhere between 10-13, crazy!

Yes, very surprising. Was pretty sure, he would be the first WR to get picked. And Cowboys don't really need him, he was just BPA. Otoh I am happy with it, because it means their defense will still suck.

I expected Giants to maybe draft Wirfs, certainly top10, welp i guess Bucs keep winning the offseason. Watch out!

Gettleman totally blew that one imo. Thomas was a reach at #4. He is just the safe pick, since you know what you get from him, while Wirfs/Willis have bigger upside. I just think that Thomas would have been there at around 8-15 and thus would have liked a trade. Maybe no one was willing. After everyone predicted trade mayhem, it was a non-show as so often. I was pretty sure some team would jump to #3 or #4, but nope. German commentators said, that it's maybe due to the virtual nature of the draft and a lot of GMs not being familiar with these internet things or it being too weary to organize a trade this way.

How many did you get?

I'm with 10, trailing the leaders by just one with only two questions remaining. Unlikely for me to get to the top.

I am sitting right at the top of the leaderboard with 11/13. Was wrong with Okudah as well and had Lamb 1-12. I have McKinney to be first Safety drafted (quite surprising he is still available) and Pats going offensive player for the two remaining. Lets see. I missed one promo win already with a goal in 94th minute, so expect Lady luck to be on my side this time

With my bets I have a lot of red ones, only hit on Jeudy over 12.5 so far, which was biggest bet thanks god. One bet is still undecided and if it wins, could put me in profit. If not, it was a bad draft betting wise

[morvillz7z]

I am sitting right at the top of the leaderboard with 11/13.

That's nice to hear. I was almost certain you would do exceptionally well in this promo.

Was wrong with Okudah as well and had Lamb 1-12.

Same for me, Okudah and Lamb, but why did you take the LSU over 4.5? 5 players in the first round was a reach.
Chiefs doing me dirty since the Super Bowl.

I have McKinney to be first Safety drafted (quite surprising he is still available) and Pats going offensive player for the two remaining.

I'm pretty sure everyone has McKinney in their lists (including me).
As for the Patriots, i went the other way and picked a defensive player. They are not drafting a QB, that's fo sure.

Lets see. I missed one promo win already with a goal in 94th minute, so expect Lady luck to be on my side this time

Good luck tonight!

[tyKiwanuka]

That's nice to hear. I was almost certain you would do exceptionally well in this promo.

Thank you. I liked my chances in this one - this is way better than E-Sports or even Soccer - but you need some luck as well. The last two questions (over/under for defensive/offensive players drafted in first round) were a bit tricky for someone not familiar with the draft, since over+over and under+under had no chance to be both correct, which gave an advantage to the more knowledgeable ones. Only over+under or under+over could result in both choices being correct and I indeed guessed correctly.

(...) but why did you take the LSU over 4.5? 5 players in the first round was a reach.

Tbh this was just a little (poor mans) hedge, because I had Alabama -0.5 vs LSU in another promo elsewhere Looked like I would lose both, but the Chiefs saved me in Sportsbet promo.

As for the Patriots, i went the other way and picked a defensive player. They are not drafting a QB, that's fo sure.

My thinking was, that Patriots already had a very good defense, but struggled offensively last season. And with Brady gone and aging WR's, I thought they would go WR with their first pick. If not WR, then I thought they would go offense anyway, since they have to kind of rebuild offensively and might want to get some new pieces for that. They have traded out of first round now and I am not sure what they are looking for tbh.

[South Park]

I expected Giants to maybe draft Wirfs, certainly top10, welp i guess Bucs keep winning the offseason. Watch out!

And the most shocking to me, and probably to everyone else watching the draft, was the Packers' pick - Jordan Love. Are they really trying to move away from Rodgers?

Many mock drafts had the NY Giants drafting an OL but it seems they like to surprise everyone with their first pick, they did it with Daniel Jones last year and now they have done it again.

TB is in SB or bust mode, except for adding Antonio Brown they are doing everything they can to help Brady to make a smooth transition and to win them as many games as possible, so regardless of what happens TB is now must watch television.

From Miami perspective I do not like the trade, they did not get robbed but they did not got enough value in order to justify the trade, they traded down four spots and only got a fifth when a fourth was way closer to fair value.

Rodgers is still good but he is not the same as before so it makes sense to have someone ready just in case, he is 36 and will turn 37 during the regular season, however GB should prepare itself since I see the potential for lots of unnecessary drama especially since it seems Rodgers was not consulted about this possibility.

What I would like to know is who was trying to get Jordan Love? Miami just had selected their future QB and it does not seem as if Seattle, Baltimore or Tennessee needed a QB, so who was trying to get ahead of GB so they felt the need to trade up for him?

And the one that really hurt me was how many LSU players will be drafted in the first round, i went with under 4.5
Chiefs drafted Clyde Edwards-Helaire with the last pick. This guy wasn't even the highest-ranked RB prospect. Why...whyyyy?

KC has been trolling everyone since the post-season so it makes sense they keep that pattern going on.

I expected Giants to maybe draft Wirfs, certainly top10, welp i guess Bucs keep winning the offseason. Watch out!

Gettleman totally blew that one imo. Thomas was a reach at #4. He is just the safe pick, since you know what you get from him, while Wirfs/Willis have bigger upside. I just think that Thomas would have been there at around 8-15 and thus would have liked a trade. Maybe no one was willing. After everyone predicted trade mayhem, it was a non-show as so often. I was pretty sure some team would jump to #3 or #4, but nope. German commentators said, that it's maybe due to the virtual nature of the draft and a lot of GMs not being familiar with these internet things or it being too weary to organize a trade this way.

According to reports no one was interested in trading up for the 3rd or 4th pick in the draft, Miami wanted Tua and the LA Chargers seemed to be fine with Herbert falling on their lap, honestly I thought LV Raiders could be interested but it seems they like the mediocrity Carr offers to them.

As for the Patriots, i went the other way and picked a defensive player. They are not drafting a QB, that's fo sure.

My thinking was, that Patriots already had a very good defense, but struggled offensively last season. And with Brady gone and aging WR's, I thought they would go WR with their first pick. If not WR, then I thought they would go offense anyway, since they have to kind of rebuild offensively and might want to get some new pieces for that. They have traded out of first round now and I am not sure what they are looking for tbh.

NE has lost lots players this off-season and yet they only have 2.1 millions in cap space which is probably not enough to sign the new guys they will draft, so it is possible that trading out of the first round was nothing more but a move which was financially motivated while also getting an adequate compensation for their first-round pick.

Also it seems Belichick really likes Stidham so there is the possibility NE does not draft a QB until the third day of the draft just to fill that spot.

[tyKiwanuka]

What I would like to know is who was trying to get Jordan Love? Miami just had selected their future QB and it does not seem as if Seattle, Baltimore or Tennessee needed a QB, so who was trying to get ahead of GB so they felt the need to trade up for him?

Yes, seemed a bit like a desperate move, but GB surely just didn't do it for fun, so they must have heard some rumours. Looking a bit further down the list, I could imagine the Colts maybe thinking about moving up from #34. Get Love, let him learn one year behind Rivers and then put him in. Colts seem to have lost trust in Brissett being their answer at QB, so such a move would make sense.


While waiting for the second round to start (nearly midnight here already ), it came to my mind that the Patriots could take McKinney and thus destroy all my Sportsbet promo hopes This would put us both at 12/15 @morvillz7z, but don't think it would be enough for any prize money. One of those 11/13 guys surely has McKinney/defensive player as well and would take the pot then. Even worse, if the Patriots pick Delpit or Winfield, but they have good safeties, so I think this won't happen.

[morvillz7z]

^What if all four of you have Patriots pick an offensive player and Belichick decides to go defense instead, wouldn't that be beautiful?

I'm not holding my breath though, Patriots first picks the last two years (late first-rounders): OT, RB, and WR. haha gg

Some of the mock drafts have NE choose between Epenesa (DE), Yetur Gross-Matos (DE), or Kmet (TE)...

edit; McKinney (NYG) and Kyle Dugger/S (NE)


Off-topic; i hope Chiefs win their next Super Bowl in 2070

[tyKiwanuka]

Too bad I was so happy, when the Giants took McKinney, because it was good for the promo and I also like that pick in general, but that joy didn't last long Looks like we will both come up empty @morvillz7z, since one of those guys surely had McKinney/defensive combination.

[morvillz7z]

Yeah man, it sucks big time. I got fleeced by the Chiefs and you by Belichick's dog (Nike) at the last possible moment.

NE drafted, after Dugger, three offensive players, OLB and two TEs.

I still can't believe i fall for the rumors that Dolphins will move up to #3, thus missing on Okudah. SMH!

[tyKiwanuka]

I still can't believe i fall for the rumors that Dolphins will move up to #3, thus missing on Okudah. SMH!

Yes, same here. That miss on Lamb was ok, but being fooled by these trade rumours hurts It also hurt other promos/games where I participated in. And look at this:

I have placed a bet on Justin Herbert being picked under 5.5 at William Hill for @2.15.

Highest Drafted Edge Rusher (only these three count for this bet):

Josh Uche 1.68    
Julian Okwara 2.75    
Terrell Lewis 5.50 Stake 3/10 Betonline


Will Austin Jackson be a 1st Round Pick?

Yes 1.28    
No 3.25 Stake 2/10 Betonline


Which Pick Will Andrew Thomas be Drafted

Under 10½ Pick 1.62    
Over 10½ Pick 2.20 Stake 1/10 Betonline


Total Players from Clemson Drafted in Round 1

Over 1½ Players Drafted 1.22    
Under 1½ Players Drafted 3.75 Stake 2/10 Betonline

First 3 Wide Receivers Drafted - Exact Order

1. Lamb 2. Ruggs 3. Jefferson 23.00 Stake 1/10 betonline

Jeudy draft position: over 12.5 @2.30 Stake: 4/10 William Hill

What a piss poor performance. I had put no stakes for Herbert pick, but all others add already up to -3.8 units. And only one bet won in total But at least it was the last one posted, so I can claim to be on a streak.

-

But all in all it was nice to watch some "sports" again. Really showed me, how much I miss sports these days and especially NFL. Lets hope the season will start according to plan; can't wait to watch Tampa. Hoping for a Saints - Bucs matchup week1

[DireWolfM14]

I don't know why, but I love it that you guys are gambling on the NFL draft.  I had no idea that there were gambling markets for this stuff, but now that I think about, why wouldn't there be, lol?

Purely from the perspective of a fan, I think the Vikings might have won the draft this year.  They made some great moves, adding a much needed weapon to add to Cousin's arsenal, and a quick Corner Back to bolster their pass defense.

I was a bit disappointed with the Niner's draft order in the first round, I would have liked to see them take one of the top receive prospects instead of a DT, and wait until later in the draft to work on the Defense.  I only say that because our defense was pretty stout last year, but we could have used more targets for Garoppolo.  I'm not surprised by Lynch's decisions, the Niners have a long history of approaching the draft conservatively.  And with Staley announcing his retirement (I'm gonna miss him) the decision to trade a couple of picks for Trent Williams makes a lot of sense. 

Like any draft, it's going to be a couple of years before we can truly evaluate the decisions made this year.

How about the Bengals taking Joe Burrow?  Not surprising, considering their needs, and I have high hopes for Burrow's career.  Is he the nest Joe Montana?

For those of you who took some gambles on the results, I hope you came out ahead. 

[tyKiwanuka]

How about the Bengals taking Joe Burrow?  Not surprising, considering their needs, and I have high hopes for Burrow's career.  Is he the nest Joe Montana?

I am always a bit more skeptical with QBs from the big Colleges. They have the best talent around them and of course that makes it easier for them to shine. His 2019 numbers at LSU were nothing but impressive, breaking NCAA records for passer rating (202.0) and total TD (60, yes 60!), but it could be kind of a fluke as well. It was one extraordinary season and with the Bengals he won't have the best talent around him for the start.

Is he the next Joe Montana ? As you said, only time will tell. He certainly is a Joe already and I don't expect him to be an average Joe. He has all the tools, but it needs a lot of factors to fall into place, to have a HoF career.

[South Park]

I don't know why, but I love it that you guys are gambling on the NFL draft.  I had no idea that there were gambling markets for this stuff, but now that I think about, why wouldn't there be, lol?

Well the NFL draft has been a big event for a long time and since there is almost nothing on TV it broke records in terms of viewership, so not only it makes sense that casinos not only offered ways to bet on it but that they offered many more bets than usual in order to take advantage of it

How about the Bengals taking Joe Burrow?  Not surprising, considering their needs, and I have high hopes for Burrow's career.  Is he the nest Joe Montana?

This is something really difficult to answer, I have always thought that legendary QBs would have found a way to be successful no matter the circumstances, but in order to get the most out of them they need to get to the perfect situation for them.

Just look at Mahomes which is the latest example of this, his natural talent is incredible and yet when he was drafted many analysts gave KC very bad grades for that pick, however he went to a team that was already a playoff contender, it had probably the best coach of this era that had not won a SB and could sit behind a capable QB in Alex Smith so he did not need to play immediately.

In the case of Montana he walked in a situation that had an innovative offensive genius on Bill Walsh that had already proven his West Coast Offence could work, had great receivers like Dwight Clark and years later they added Jerry Rice and if that was not enough most people forget they had a tremendous defence, to exemplify this SF defeated Miami 38-16 at SB XIX and yet one year later before free agency Miami defeated Chicago 38-24 and it gave to them their only defeat of that season, think about it Miami could only score 16 against SF’s defence but it could score 38 against the 1985 Chicago Bears Defence which is considered to be one of the best of all time.

In the case of Joe Burrow I think I only watched two of his games so it is not like I have seen a lot of him, however he is walking in a very complex situation, Cincinnati has been quite bad for some years, their Head Coach is inexperienced and we do not really have an idea of what he can do, and if that was not enough the expectations out of him are going to be very high from the beginning not only because he is a first overall pick of the draft but also because he is seen as some kind of Ohio’s Hero which will put additional pressure on him.

What do you liked the most about this draft? What did you hated the most? What do you think the NFL could implement from this draft to next drafts once things go back to normal(or at least something that resembles it)?

In my case I liked the fact that it was more personal and did not felt as artificial as in the past so I hope they find a way to keep that, thanks to that even Roger Goodell seemed even likeable at some points during the draft, but what I did not liked at all was the lack of booing to Goodell, he made a reference to it at the beginning but for the most part there was very little booing in something that has become almost like a tradition at the draft.

[tyKiwanuka]

Just look at Mahomes which is the latest example of this, his natural talent is incredible and yet when he was drafted many analysts gave KC very bad grades for that pick, however he went to a team that was already a playoff contender, it had probably the best coach of this era that had not won a SB and could sit behind a capable QB in Alex Smith so he did not need to play immediately.
(...)
In the case of Joe Burrow I think I only watched two of his games so it is not like I have seen a lot of him, however he is walking in a very complex situation, Cincinnati has been quite bad for some years, their Head Coach is inexperienced and we do not really have an idea of what he can do, and if that was not enough the expectations out of him are going to be very high from the beginning not only because he is a first overall pick of the draft but also because he is seen as some kind of Ohio’s Hero which will put additional pressure on him.

Yes, agree. He comes from LSU, where everything was clicking, adversity was just a word and he forgot how it feels to lose. Now he comes to an organization in shambles, where he will face adversity on a regular basis and might forget how it feels to win. Mahomes is a pretty tough guy imo and Burrow doesn't strike me as a person, who will easily deal with all these circumstances. He fits well into a working system, but can he carry and lead a team that has a lot of work to do ? I have my doubts.

AFC North is also a bit harder than AFC West imo. In AFC West, you have the Raiders and Chargers, that are a bit of messy organisations and the Broncos being so and so all the time. In AFC North, you have the Ravens and Steelers, who are always competitive and tough to play, while Cleveland is on the rise too (or said to be on the rise )

In my case I liked the fact that it was more personal and did not felt as artificial as in the past so I hope they find a way to keep that, thanks to that even Roger Goodell seemed even likeable at some points during the draft, (...)

The pics from all the players sitting there with their friends and family were lovely. And I always find it interesting to have a look into the houses of people The coaches/GMs sitting at their desks with their kids/dogs/whatever around was nice too. That basement room from Roger Goodell though......that dude is the commissioner of a multi billion dollar business and announces the draft picks, which make a lot of young people insta-millionaires, from this very basic looking environment. Strange to watch, but also quite sympathic.

[tyKiwanuka]

So, Jameis Winston is heading to the Saints: QB Jameis Winston reaches one-year deal with Saints

I like that very much, because I like Winston and still think he is, or could be, an above average QB. He just needs to work on his weaknesses and Brees is just the right guy to teach him. He is just 26 and I see a lot of similarities between him and Brees. Winston is of course erratic, but this is something he can improve (i.e. get rid of to some extent). He will always have some more interceptions, but he is also pretty mobile, which Brees is not.

I don't think the Saints do plan (yet) with Winston being the successor of Brees, once he retires. But he is a good option to develop imo. If they can calm him down, he could very well be their next starting QB - I don't see Hill as that, he will always be some hybrid for them imo. If Winston doesn't play out longterm for the Saints, they at least have someone to jump in, if Brees goes down during the season and Winston will give them a good chance to still be competitive. You won't find any better backups and he is cheap for them.

Win-win.

And on the funny side of things, Winston is used to throw to Saints players:


Source: https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1254431480052436994

[South Park]

So, Jameis Winston is heading to the Saints: QB Jameis Winston reaches one-year deal with Saints

I like that very much, because I like Winston and still think he is, or could be, an above average QB. He just needs to work on his weaknesses and Brees is just the right guy to teach him. He is just 26 and I see a lot of similarities between him and Brees. Winston is of course erratic, but this is something he can improve (i.e. get rid of to some extent). He will always have some more interceptions, but he is also pretty mobile, which Brees is not.

I don't think the Saints do plan (yet) with Winston being the successor of Brees, once he retires. But he is a good option to develop imo. If they can calm him down, he could very well be their next starting QB - I don't see Hill as that, he will always be some hybrid for them imo. If Winston doesn't play out longterm for the Saints, they at least have someone to jump in, if Brees goes down during the season and Winston will give them a good chance to still be competitive. You won't find any better backups and he is cheap for them.

Win-win.

Winston could become a decent QB if he just limited the number of interceptions, I'm not an expert but according to what I have read most QBs have problems adapting to the Bruce Arians offense and they keep throwing interceptions on their first year but that number will begin to go down as they learn more about it, unfortunately for Winston he was at the end of his contract and Tampa Bay could not pass up on Tom Brady.

For New Orleans this is a great move, they get a QB with experience for a good price to be behind Drew Brees so in the case he goes down their season is not over as it will happen to any team without a good backup QB.

And on the funny side of things, Winston is used to throw to Saints players:


Source: https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1254431480052436994

LOL, that was too brutal.

In my case I liked the fact that it was more personal and did not felt as artificial as in the past so I hope they find a way to keep that, thanks to that even Roger Goodell seemed even likeable at some points during the draft, (...)

The pics from all the players sitting there with their friends and family were lovely. And I always find it interesting to have a look into the houses of people The coaches/GMs sitting at their desks with their kids/dogs/whatever around was nice too. That basement room from Roger Goodell though......that dude is the commissioner of a multi billion dollar business and announces the draft picks, which make a lot of young people insta-millionaires, from this very basic looking environment. Strange to watch, but also quite sympathic.

Belichick's dog Nike drafting safety Kyle Dugger No. 37 overall during the second round.




Nike receiving his just reward for a job well done.

I don’t know, I am starting to think Nike has been given too much power within the organization and probably had something to do with Brady leaving, it will not surprise me if he was planning to get rid of Belichick as well in the future.