[LIKELY SCAM] Antminer group buy

[lowerjerzey]

Obviously you don't have alot to do and I'm sure you have less than 1TH/S so thanks for the help but my calculations are fine and I am doing this to ROI asap and reinvest in more and better equipment and I will double the TH/S easy if I sell all the shares.

Prove it.  Let's see your math.  Where is the ROI?  You bought 15 antminers and sold shares at cost.  Profit $0.  Your ROI is .021BTC a day until the difficulty changes then you make even less.  OK, so how much did you pay for the PSUs?  A bronze psu goes for $70 so the total for 15 is $1050 but I'm sure you paid more, right, because you care about your equipment and won't buy some crappy bronze psu, especially since it has to run for 6 months straight.  At current market price .021BTC is $12.15.  $1050/$12.15 is  86.4 days.  Congrats!!!! Not counting any other hardware that you put out of pocket like surge protectors, switches and wires, you'll break even in 86.4 days.  That is not a very good ROI.  

Let's see your math. Prove this wrong and I'll give you 0.028BTC, the price of a share.  I don't want the share, a gift for proving me wrong.

Also, how are you getting free electricity?  Is it included in your rent?  Good luck with it staying free once the landlord gets the bill.  15 not overclocked antminers uses roughly 5400w.  Here in the US, the average is $.15kWh.  So the bill in the US would be around $600 a month.

 help each other

That's was the whole point of my post. I'm helping you to realize you have made a very poor choice.  Truth hurts!!!!

And if you trying to help me why don't you PM me first instead of bashing my hosting and all the work I have done to get this far...

I smell some jealousy

Because I'm trying to prevent people from buying shares.  1.  To help you out.  You shouldn't be doing this.  2.  To help them out because, regardless of this being a scam, you won't make 6 months.  You'll quit, especially with your ROI being $0.

And saying phrases like "you don't know what the fuck you are doing" isn't really professional.

I do know what I am doing and that's why I am successful in life and have 15 antminers and now it's time to expand without investing more because this isn't my only investment in life so it is a good way to ROI and earn 8% PROFIT everyweek and meanwhile I can reinvest in more TH/S.

Please stay polite and friendly.

This isn't a professional setting so saying fuck is perfectly fine, and it was used to make a point.  Also, your 8% profit .021BTC a day(after waiting the 86.4 days) won't buy you any Th/s.

You posted this at the start of my post when it was already 8% and all the conditions were the same.
What changed ? That it actually was MY eligius page and I could change and seperate the miners? That you thought it wasn't mine, when it actually is? That my hosting groupbuy is working?

Yeah, I thought about throwing you a couple shares because the hosting and fee was too good to be true. It wasn't until I saw you had no clue what you were doing that I changed my mind.  When you actually changed the miner to point to some "shareholder's" wallet and then selling shares attached to actual miners, I knew to stay away.  If you are legit, you are making the worst business decisions possible.  What are you going to do when that shareholder who has his own miner says that he got hacked and all his bitcoins were stolen and he can't pay you your 8% share.  Are you just gonna take his miner away? Is it that simple, huh?  What if he is telling the truth? What if he's lying? Bad bad bad decisions.  Put it in a pot, take your cut(a percentage<-another poor decision), pay the shareholders.  Your way is godawful and opens the door to a ton of bullshit for you and the shareholders.

You are doing it wrong and the poor people who are buying shares or might buy shares need to know this.  On paper, shareholders benefit greatly and you don't at all. Your ROI is $0 and once you realize that, you'll probably quit.  

Remember, I'm actually trying to help you out!

[klondike_bar]

^im inclined to agree. a percentage cut is an odd way to operate, espescially when after 2-3 months it will be a very small cut, and dissapearing with the miners starts to look like an easy way out.

[crackfoo]

perhaps his ants have already ROI'd, what he's collecting now is BTC to... say perhaps buy an S2 or two...

[lowerjerzey]

perhaps his ants have already ROI'd, what he's collecting now is BTC to... say perhaps buy an S2 or two...

It looks like he just bought them from bitmain.

Price I paid for the antminers was around 1BTC

I know I'm coming off as a dick, but I'm really telling the truth.  He's looking at a good amount of work and potential out of pocket expenses with zero ROI. So, even if he is not scamming, he has no incentive to stay honest with the shareholders.  Once he realizes he is doing all this work for free, he's an idiot if he doesn't take the miners and bitcoins and run.

[Drai]

Once he realizes he is doing all this work for free, he's an idiot if he doesn't take the miners and bitcoins and run.

ssssssshhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

[joshka]

Be careful people, this post seems like ponzi scheme and I remember minewithmind, an italian scammer

[lowerjerzey]

It seems you are really enjoying this so this is the last response you get from me because I won't be going back and forth with someone who clearly is saying the same over and over again in other sentences.

I'll keep repeating it until you prove me wrong. Why would you host 15 antminers for 6 months for zero ROI?  Let's see the math.  How are you benefiting or profiting from doing this. You're not! Making 8% from the mining is crap.

This here proves that you are clueless...

So, too much money with this fee  

And no one will want to receive miners at the end of the 6 months!
Please, help us poor mans !

This is my first hosting group buy and i thought everything was reasonable but maybe it's not for the "poor man"
I changed what will happen after 6 months, so now you have the option to sell and if you have less than 36 shares it will be sold and you will receive your share in proportion to your shares.

Would 7% be a better acceptable fee? Keep in mind that it is a one time buy of the share(s) and you will never have to pay for hosting or electricity in the 6 months (except for fees ofcource)

You let Drai dictate what you should charge for your hosting.  Really, really? Some stranger posts that you are charging too much so you cater to him and change the price. Now tell the truth, did you really think this through and actually calculate the viability?  No, you didn't.  Honestly, if you sell all the shares and don't disappear, you're a fool working for 6 months for free.  

My.028BTC offer is still on the table.  Show me how you profit and the money is yours.  The only profit you would make is by stealing the bitcoins paid for shares and disappearing.

BEWARE!!

[Forexperiments]

@lowerjerzey who said it's zero ROI?
First, you don't have a 100% warranty that in 6 months you can make 1 BTC from an antminer.
In this way btcmin0r is 100% sure that will make 1 BTC + 8% weekly profit

With the 15 BTC that he has got back (now, and not after 130 days), he can get more powerful hardware

[lowerjerzey]

@lowerjerzey who said it's zero ROI?
First, you don't have a 100% warranty that in 6 months you can make 1 BTC from an antminer.
In this way btcmin0r is 100% sure that will make 1 BTC + 8% weekly profit

With the 15 BTC that he has got back (now, and not after 130 days), he can get more powerful hardware

Um, he didn't make 15BTC he made zero. He's only getting the equipment paid for. But, he's still in the red. Don't forget the psu's, extra fans, wire, switches, and the biggest cost, time. The miner won't make any return until he sells it. Even then, the prices of the s1 are dropping significantly so you can count that out. In a few months, the s1 is a door stopper. He's living in a fantasy world. He has this grandiose idea of hosting hardware, but so far he's doing a piss poor job. His pricing is bad(for him) and the way he's handling his shares is idiotic. Why would anyone want to buy shares with such poor management? This has abandonment written all over it.

and I said I paid around 1 BTC, You really think I bought 15 antminers at once ? I have been building them over some time and already collected enough bitcoins.

Stop quoting what you want and ignoring what you know is true, you don't know how much bitcoins I mined so far on my own and that is none of your business.

Stop thinking your 0.028 means the world to me I don't want your money, keep it and buy a sandwich or something with it and stop pushing me to leave with my shareholders moneys and never come back.

Don't forget you have a post history.  You haven't owned these that long.  You tried to buy a cube in January and may have bought from sushi in Feb. That's a BIG maybe because you were asking him when they will become available again, so you probably missed the window. You talk about Bitmain coupons a few weeks ago, so yeah, I'd say you've owned these for a couple weeks.  So, you did probably only pay roughly 1BTC for each from Bitmain and you haven't made that much BTC in the past couple weeks. So in the time frame of you owning these, you might have paid 2 off.  Big deal, you own 15 of them.

I think I made my point over and over again and doubt anyone with half a brain will buy shares from you. Why?

you = zero incentive to host for 6 months because your ROI is essentially zero(a diminishing 8% is essentially zero because you do have other costs)
a potential shareholder = shouldn't trust that you will honor the 6 months while you work for free
people who already bought shares = buyers remorse

I truly feel sorry for you. You do not know what you are doing.

[Forexperiments]

lowerjerzey WTF
why you insist on this post so much?
go to bug other topics.
For example there's a guy who is selling shares of an antminer, and then he will do free hosting with no profit whatsoever. And he didn't order the machine yet.
Why don't you go there to give your great opinion?

it's all a question of demand and offer.
If he charges a flat fee for hosting, then it's not profitable for shareholders after 2 months, and an antminer needs at least 4-5 months to ROI.
Consider that he has now 15 antminer and he's using most of them for his own mining (the first month is the most valuable)
So, if someone else gets 36 shares, btcmin0r1 has already made a profit from that antminer (suppose 0.2 BTC) + full ROI + 8%
Here is his profit!
It's not, like many others are doing, gather money first, and then starting mining. His setup is already working!

You're such an analyst, go to tell your valuable opinion on the ninja group buy topic
1 TH for $3300 + $250 monthly.
It's a great offer for him, but not for shareholders, it's impossible to get money back with that insane hosting fees.

[crackfoo]

lowerjerzey WTF
why you insist on this post so much?
go to bug other topics.
For example there's a guy who is selling shares of an antminer, and then he will do free hosting with no profit whatsoever. And he didn't order the machine yet.
Why don't you go there to give your great opinion?

it's all a question of demand and offer.
If he charges a flat fee for hosting, then it's not profitable for shareholders after 2 months, and an antminer needs at least 4-5 months to ROI.
Consider that he has now 15 antminer and he's using most of them for his own mining (the first month is the most valuable)
So, if someone else gets 36 shares, btcmin0r1 has already made a profit from that antminer (suppose 0.2 BTC) + full ROI + 8%
Here is his profit!
It's not, like many others are doing, gather money first, and then starting mining. His setup is already working!

You're such an analyst, go to tell your valuable opinion on the ninja group buy topic
1 TH for $3300 + $250 monthly.
It's a great offer for him, but not for shareholders, it's impossible to get money back with that insane hosting fees.

+1... go troll elsewhere lowerjerzey

[lowerjerzey]

lowerjerzey WTF
why you insist on this post so much?
go to bug other topics.
For example there's a guy who is selling shares of an antminer, and then he will do free hosting with no profit whatsoever. And he didn't order the machine yet.
Why don't you go there to give your great opinion?

it's all a question of demand and offer.
If he charges a flat fee for hosting, then it's not profitable for shareholders after 2 months, and an antminer needs at least 4-5 months to ROI.
Consider that he has now 15 antminer and he's using most of them for his own mining (the first month is the most valuable)
So, if someone else gets 36 shares, btcmin0r1 has already made a profit from that antminer (suppose 0.2 BTC) + full ROI + 8%
Here is his profit!
It's not, like many others are doing, gather money first, and then starting mining. His setup is already working!

You're such an analyst, go to tell your valuable opinion on the ninja group buy topic
1 TH for $3300 + $250 monthly.
It's a great offer for him, but not for shareholders, it's impossible to get money back with that insane hosting fees.

I post so no one buys shares. It's actually to protect him and potential buyers who aren't thinking clearly. Mission accomplished. His 8% is actually zero. I think I explained why it is zero pretty clearly.  What he's made so far in BTC probably only paid off the psu's so the antminers aren't paid for. He's in denial of this and so are you because you actually bought shares. He's doing it wrong and you know it. Look at my first post and read the first sentence.

No offense btcmin0r1, did you really think this through? Your are probably the most generous host who is working for very, very little pay.

Too generous to the point of idiocy. He's working for free and has all the incentive in the world to abandon his shareholders. Ninja's hosting is spot on. He's doing it right. He's providing a service for a flat fee, thus, guaranteeing his own payment.  He lays out all the ground rules and sets reasonable time frames. He has backups(he sell's s1's) and makes guarantees. If you don't think it is profitable, then don't buy from him.  But, he does sell out.  His 1Th $3300 + $199 is actually a great deal but only if the miners get delivered in the advertised time frame. The risk a purchaser is taking is in the waiting for delivery. If he had them in hand, I would have bought one.

You're lucky you only bought 5 shares. Just hope that the antminer connected to your shares(this is so dumb) doesn't break down. I see no guarantee of him replacing it.  He doesn't have backups because I asked him and he didn't say that he does.

I know you feel the remorse and feel the need to defend this, it won't last, stop denying it. And if it does, that is great. But that makes btcmin0r1 the stupidest, but generous host I've ever seen.

Just in case there are new people reading this and tl;dr

BEWARE!!! This host has no incentive to keep hosting for 6 months.
May abandon shareholders.
Read my posts!

[S4VV4S]

I think I agree with lowerjerzey
This group buy makes no sense unless it is a scam.

[Forexperiments]

lowerjerzey, nobody asked your opinion
go to this post to dispense your wisdom and GTFO
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=526793.msg5847577#msg5847577


for everyone else: do this:

[Forexperiments]

Ok, since lowerjerzey is an asshole, I explain how this can be profitable for bitmin0r1:

Assuming he sells all the shares today, he makes 16.5 BTC, 15 BTC from the shares and 1.5 from the 8% fee
When he bought them? Two weeks ago? That means he made 3 BTC. So, 3 BTC + 15 BTC from the shares + 1.5 BTC from the 8% fee
19.5 BTC paying 15 BTC, and, most importantly, getting most of the money RIGHT NOW, not after 140 days!!!
Here is the ROI you're searching for!

PSU costs? That costs are fixed, they can be used for the next miner or somewhere else!

Moreover, not all slots are sold: on unsold shares, his cut is 100%. This means the output from ELEVEN antminers is going to his pockets. It's 0.2 BTC for every day!

Happy now? Now that you got the cost analysis and saw that it's profitable, you can send me the cost of a share. Thanks
1CmUws4kMJTEdCSgEAKvFKdTEkK6CZAbqQ

[S4VV4S]

He doesn't have backups because I asked him and he didn't say that he does.

You never PM'd me and I didn't talk to you.
Does your fuckbuddy ninja has a backup 1TH/S ordered for everyone?

You don't have to use this kinda way to talk to people you are not a moderator (your a newbie) as you try to come over with this kinda "warning" you clearly expressed your feelings and we all read it and then people make their own conclusions, don't push it.

This kinda trolling is going too far, you can talk, you can discuss, you can say your opninion, but don't shove it in people's face when everyone clearly already read your ranting, you are ruining my groupbuy.

"your" is the wrong way of writing it.
It is You Are.
Your(s) implies to something that belongs to you.
Also, btcmin0r1 you are quite new your self, so don't start the newbie discussion.

That being said, this thread has attracted my attention and I must say this:

@Forexperiments what is your take in this? apart from 5 shares which means jack shit.
I have also noticed that you are Italian and also registered at more or less the same time as OP.
Are you the same person?
Apart from that, ARE YOU minewithmind but with a new username and scheme?
If you are, you obviously got lot's of coins from your previous scam so you could buy 15 Ants.
And if you are, apparently you are getting too greedy.
Not good....

I could be wrong here, but somehow my experience tells me that lowerjerzey is right.

 

[Forexperiments]

"your" is the wrong way of writing it.
It is You Are.
Your(s) implies to something that belongs to you.

Watch out, we have a grammar nazi here
OP is clearly not from an english-speaking country (I have no idea which though)

@Forexperiments what is your take in this?

My take is 0.14 BTC for 5 shares
I paid because what btcmin0r1 wrote gave me trust. I took a calculator and I saw that his group buy has gains for the seller and the shareholders, while most of the group buys (with hosting included) has gains only for the seller (ninja) or has gains only for the shareholder and hence it is scam

I have also noticed that you are Italian and also registered at more or less the same time as OP.
Are you the same person?
Apart from that, ARE YOU minewithmind but with a new username and scheme?

LOL, this claim is ridiculous

[lowerjerzey]

Ok, since lowerjerzey is an asshole, I explain how this can be profitable for bitmin0r1:

Assuming he sells all the shares today, he makes 16.5 BTC, 15 BTC from the shares and 1.5 from the 8% fee
When he bought them? Two weeks ago? That means he made 3 BTC. So, 3 BTC + 15 BTC from the shares + 1.5 BTC from the 8% fee
19.5 BTC paying 15 BTC, and, most importantly, getting most of the money RIGHT NOW, not after 140 days!!!
Here is the ROI you're searching for!

PSU costs? That costs are fixed, they can be used for the next miner or somewhere else!

Moreover, not all slots are sold: on unsold shares, his cut is 100%. This means the output from ELEVEN antminers is going to his pockets. It's 0.2 BTC for every day!

Happy now? Now that you got the cost analysis and saw that it's profitable, you can send me the cost of a share. Thanks
1CmUws4kMJTEdCSgEAKvFKdTEkK6CZAbqQ

Buyers remorse, I get it.  Your calculation is wrong. He paid 15 BTC, he makes 15 BTC from sales, profit so far = zero. Mining, ok I'll give you 3 BTC, fine.  3BTC - psu's - switches - wires - fans - probably those shelves - miscellaneous = zero profit so far.  If he sells all his shares, he no longer owns those antminers.  What he does own is 8% of the mining, 15 psu's, 15 fans, and a bunch of miscellaneous hardware clear and free, with no profit made thus far.  The diminishing 8% or 0.021BTC per day is no incentive for him to keep hosting. In 11 days, if the total hashrate trend doesn't change, his 8% turns into 0.017BTC per day. It's all downhill from here. In a month from now, I bet it will be 0.009. You really think that this guy will want to continue to host for peanuts. Your fooling yourself and so is he.


BEWARE!!! This host has no incentive to keep hosting for 6 months.
May abandon shareholders.
Read my posts!

[S4VV4S]

"your" is the wrong way of writing it.
It is You Are.
Your(s) implies to something that belongs to you.

Watch out, we have a grammar nazi here
OP is clearly not from an english-speaking country (I have no idea which though)

@Forexperiments what is your take in this?

My take is 0.14 BTC for 5 shares
I paid because what btcmin0r1 wrote gave me trust. I took a calculator and I saw that his group buy has gains for the seller and the shareholders, while most of the group buys (with hosting included) has gains only for the seller (ninja) or has gains only for the shareholder and hence it is scam

I have also noticed that you are Italian and also registered at more or less the same time as OP.
Are you the same person?
Apart from that, ARE YOU minewithmind but with a new username and scheme?

LOL, this claim is ridiculous

Is my claim really ridiculous?
How do you know who minewithmind is?

[lowerjerzey]

lowerjerzey, nobody asked your opinion
go to this post to dispense your wisdom and GTFO
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=526793.msg5847577#msg5847577


for everyone else: do this:

Why won't I call that guy out, because that sale is dumb. He's selling 1Gh/s shares of 1 antminer for crumbs. Dumb. If someone is stupid enough to buy shares, they deserve to throw away coins. As for this sale, this guy does seem to have a decent farm. But, the terms of his sale and the management of the shares are asinine and anyone considering this should be warned. I warned them. Done.

BEWARE!!! This host has no incentive to keep hosting for 6 months.
May abandon shareholders.
Read my posts!