Occupy Wall Street and BTC Prices

[bittenbob]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

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[Jonathan Ryan Owens]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

That's exactly what we need: An inflow of liberal blowhards with their hands out. Sounds awesome.

[bittenbob]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

That's exactly what we need: An inflow of liberal blowhards with their hands out. Sounds awesome.

Wow, what a hatred filled statement. Why is it that people assume that Liberals are those with their hands held out? It seems to me that the right wingers (IE big corporations) have received more of the handouts in the last 10 years than the little guy. There are many liberal minded folk who are hard working and probably more productive than the i hate any government right winger folks. I suppose you think Richard Branson is sitting there with his hands held out too don't you?

(Edit)

Let me add that the right wingers only dislike government if it is to provide some liberty or service. If it infringes on civil liberties or is about curtailing services then they are all for it. Funny how screwed up some peoples priorities are. Just ask anyone who has come from communism/marxism how they feel about our current governments insistence on spying on all of our conversations and what it would have resulted in back then.

[Jonathan Ryan Owens]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

That's exactly what we need: An inflow of liberal blowhards with their hands out. Sounds awesome.

Wow, what a hatred filled statement. Why is it that people assume that Liberals are those with their hands held out? It seems to me that the right wingers (IE big corporations) have received more of the handouts in the last 10 years than the little guy. There are many liberal minded folk who are hard working and probably more productive than the i hate any government right winger folks. I suppose you think Richard Branson is sitting there with his hands held out too don't you?

(Edit)

Let me add that the right wingers only dislike government unless it is to provide some liberty or service. If it infringes on civil liberties or is about curtailing services then they are all for it. Funny how screwed up some peoples priorities are. Just ask anyone who has come from communism/marxism how they feel about our current governments insistence on spying on all of our conversations and what it would have resulted in back then.

I can't be sure, but I am relatively certain that you haven't had any direct exposure to these events. I've actually gone to a few, to check out the real happenings on the ground, and to talk to the people running them. They are complete social rejects. I even decided to troll Occupy Honolulu with a friend. He agreed to dress up in a suit and hold the sign I made.



There needs be structural changes, but your suggestion earlier would have far more merit. However, Zhou made a good point as well, and the fact is that poor people absolutely suck at managing wealth. We don't need a complete rebalancing, but we do need term limits for congressmen and senators, and it wouldn't hurt if the majority of bankers were stripped of their rights and thrown in jail.

Still, OWS protesters are douchebags.

-Jonathan

[bittenbob]

I planned on attending my local rally on the one day it was supposed to be here but I ended up having a job interview for a major corporation who I wont name and didn't get the job anyways. I currently have a job but the other corporation probably just felt I was overqualified (which I am) for the job. However I do support what the protestors stand for 100%. The guy with the sign is funny I will give you that but there are legitimate issues all around the world. While many people suck at managing wealth it depends on what your definition of "managing" means. If it means marginalizing people and making money for doing nothing then yes they would defintiely suck at it. If it means that they are only digging themselves further in debt you may have a point. But you have to remember that for most people incomes are fixed or declining and prices are rising exponentially so there arent many choices available. I am one of the ones who have seen my wages stay stagnant while costs rise exponentially so they have my vote.

People are too quick to dismiss those they dont agree with as social rejects or "hippies". Labels are lame. I still maintain that these people if they were not camping out would also have a larger percentage of people than the general population who would be participating in the bitcoin economy.

[tvbcof]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

That's exactly what we need: An inflow of liberal blowhards with their hands out. Sounds awesome.

I'll take an active interest in elaborating on what an interesting, unique, powerful, and potentially game-changing system Bitcoin is.

Also in mentioning the preponderance of shitheads in the community...in case it is not immediately obvious.  When the initial awe of the system wears off it is not hard to understand why this state of affairs exists.

[zhoutong]

We don't really need income equality. Some people are lazy and some are hard working. They deserve to be treated differently.

Actually all we need is social mobility - everyone has a fair chance to get wealth through competition. All kinds of economic regulation, taxes, etc are plainly adding friction to the society. Economic growth is pretty much an excuse for degrading society today.

I mostly disagree on the protesters. The real people we should care about are the ones without the opportunity to protest. College graduates who are in the debt trap deserve empathy, but how about the other people who couldn't even go to college? With proper management skills, there should be no problems about the educated groups of people.

I don't feel sad for poor people who blame the rich for making too much money. The real problem is how fast can wealth be redistributed.

[bittenbob]

We don't really need income equality. Some people are lazy and some are hard working. They deserve to be treated differently.

Actually all we need is social mobility - everyone has a fair chance to get wealth through competition. All kinds of economic regulation, taxes, etc are plainly adding friction to the society. Economic growth is pretty much an excuse for degrading society today.

I mostly disagree on the protesters. The real people we should care about are the ones without the opportunity to protest. College graduates who are in the debt trap deserve empathy, but how about the other people who couldn't even go to college? With proper management skills, there should be no problems about the educated groups of people.

I don't feel sad for poor people who blame the rich for making too much money. The real problem is how fast can wealth be redistributed.

I am a college graduate and am getting out of the debt trap. Many of the OWS are too. I still have yet to pay off my student loan but the rest of my debt will be gone soon. The corporations refuse to hire anyone without experience and look for ridiculous requirements that just do not exist in the real world then claim of a skills shortage. I think corporations need to be more realistic with their expectations and reward those who are edcuated better. The OWS are not necessarily protesting for income equality but equal chance in todays world which we are quite a ways off of.

(Edit)

My grandpa who is hardcore conservative used to say that you could either be a bum or a millionaire if you wanted when I was younger but now too agrees that this is not the case in the world we live in. You basically have the choice of being a bum or poor unless you know the right people. Even then if you go to school for many years you still may end up a bum because the opportunities just arent out there and the wealthy elite are hogging all that they can. As I saw on the CBC here the other night, North American corporations have never been more profitable nor hold more relative cash reservese but they are reluctant to spend it. This means no raises, cutting benefits and worsening working conditions. If you do not see it then you are one of the few lucky ones not affected.

[Jonathan Ryan Owens]

We don't really need income equality. Some people are lazy and some are hard working. They deserve to be treated differently.

Actually all we need is social mobility - everyone has a fair chance to get wealth through competition. All kinds of economic regulation, taxes, etc are plainly adding friction to the society. Economic growth is pretty much an excuse for degrading society today.

I mostly disagree on the protesters. The real people we should care about are the ones without the opportunity to protest. College graduates who are in the debt trap deserve empathy, but how about the other people who couldn't even go to college? With proper management skills, there should be no problems about the educated groups of people.

I don't feel sad for poor people who blame the rich for making too much money. The real problem is how fast can wealth be redistributed.

[trogdorjw73]

We don't really need income equality. Some people are lazy and some are hard working. They deserve to be treated differently.

Actually all we need is social mobility - everyone has a fair chance to get wealth through competition. All kinds of economic regulation, taxes, etc are plainly adding friction to the society. Economic growth is pretty much an excuse for degrading society today.

I mostly disagree on the protesters. The real people we should care about are the ones without the opportunity to protest. College graduates who are in the debt trap deserve empathy, but how about the other people who couldn't even go to college? With proper management skills, there should be no problems about the educated groups of people.

I don't feel sad for poor people who blame the rich for making too much money. The real problem is how fast can wealth be redistributed.

I am a college graduate and am getting out of the debt trap. Many of the OWS are too. I still have yet to pay off my student loan but the rest of my debt will be gone soon. The corporations refuse to hire anyone without experience and look for ridiculous requirements that just do not exist in the real world then claim of a skills shortage. I think corporations need to be more realistic with their expectations and reward those who are edcuated better. The OWS are not necessarily protesting for income equality but equal chance in todays world which we are quite a ways off of.

(Edit)

My grandpa who is hardcore conservative used to say that you could either be a bum or a millionaire if you wanted when I was younger but now too agrees that this is not the case in the world we live in. You basically have the choice of being a bum or poor unless you know the right people. Even then if you go to school for many years you still may end up a bum because the opportunities just arent out there and the wealthy elite are hogging all that they can. As I saw on the CBC here the other night, North American corporations have never been more profitable nor hold more relative cash reservese but they are reluctant to spend it. This means no raises, cutting benefits and worsening working conditions. If you do not see it then you are one of the few lucky ones not affected.

I disagree that NA corporations are more profitable than ever; some are doing great, and many are not. Most of the corporations doing well are only doing well by outsourcing to China and India, and that's another can of worms that will come back to bite us in the ass. But I digress....

Here's the problem with college these days: first, kids take out huge loans they cannot hope to repay when they graduate, and then they expect to be hired and paid a reasonable salary. Hey, I graduated in CS, took a job as an entry-level programmer earning $45K, got laid off (quite a while back), and ten years later I'm *still* trying to pay off my student loans -- and I only had about $20K in loans. I know idiots people that took out $100K for a liberal arts education, and it's ludicrous for them to expect to pay it off. Whose fault is it that they decided to go to a school that charges $20K in tuition? Hint: it's not the "system" but rather the entitlement generation.

I'd argue that the problem with the US right now (and much of the first world countries) is that there are too many college graduates that only learned to jump through the hoops necessary for graduation. I've read some studies that show the quality and productivity of an employee has essentially no correlation whatsoever with whether or not they graduated from college, and my experience in the work force backs that up. I've met people that never attended a university at all that are amazing at what they do (in the computer field), and I've met people with masters and doctorate degrees that don't know squat.

Funny thing is I hear people talk about Atlas Shrugged as though it has something to do with OWS. I'd say the fundamentals of Atlas Shrugged (or Ayn Rand's Objectivism) is the exact opposite of what OWS is asking for. Yet another example of how OWS people seem to be clueless about what they're doing. Couple that with the vandalism, trash, etc. they generate with no regard for those around them, and if they were in the world of Atlas Shrugged John Galt would be saying, "Let them rot and die with the system they expect to help them."

[bittenbob]

We don't really need income equality. Some people are lazy and some are hard working. They deserve to be treated differently.

Actually all we need is social mobility - everyone has a fair chance to get wealth through competition. All kinds of economic regulation, taxes, etc are plainly adding friction to the society. Economic growth is pretty much an excuse for degrading society today.

I mostly disagree on the protesters. The real people we should care about are the ones without the opportunity to protest. College graduates who are in the debt trap deserve empathy, but how about the other people who couldn't even go to college? With proper management skills, there should be no problems about the educated groups of people.

I don't feel sad for poor people who blame the rich for making too much money. The real problem is how fast can wealth be redistributed.

I am a college graduate and am getting out of the debt trap. Many of the OWS are too. I still have yet to pay off my student loan but the rest of my debt will be gone soon. The corporations refuse to hire anyone without experience and look for ridiculous requirements that just do not exist in the real world then claim of a skills shortage. I think corporations need to be more realistic with their expectations and reward those who are edcuated better. The OWS are not necessarily protesting for income equality but equal chance in todays world which we are quite a ways off of.

(Edit)

My grandpa who is hardcore conservative used to say that you could either be a bum or a millionaire if you wanted when I was younger but now too agrees that this is not the case in the world we live in. You basically have the choice of being a bum or poor unless you know the right people. Even then if you go to school for many years you still may end up a bum because the opportunities just arent out there and the wealthy elite are hogging all that they can. As I saw on the CBC here the other night, North American corporations have never been more profitable nor hold more relative cash reservese but they are reluctant to spend it. This means no raises, cutting benefits and worsening working conditions. If you do not see it then you are one of the few lucky ones not affected.

I disagree that NA corporations are more profitable than ever; some are doing great, and many are not. Most of the corporations doing well are only doing well by outsourcing to China and India, and that's another can of worms that will come back to bite us in the ass. But I digress....

Here's the problem with college these days: first, kids take out huge loans they cannot hope to repay when they graduate, and then they expect to be hired and paid a reasonable salary. Hey, I graduated in CS, took a job as an entry-level programmer earning $45K, got laid off (quite a while back), and ten years later I'm *still* trying to pay off my student loans -- and I only had about $20K in loans. I know idiots people that took out $100K for a liberal arts education, and it's ludicrous for them to expect to pay it off. Whose fault is it that they decided to go to a school that charges $20K in tuition? Hint: it's not the "system" but rather the entitlement generation.

I'd argue that the problem with the US right now (and much of the first world countries) is that there are too many college graduates that only learned to jump through the hoops necessary for graduation. I've read some studies that show the quality and productivity of an employee has essentially no correlation whatsoever with whether or not they graduated from college, and my experience in the work force backs that up. I've met people that never attended a university at all that are amazing at what they do (in the computer field), and I've met people with masters and doctorate degrees that don't know squat.

Funny thing is I hear people talk about Atlas Shrugged as though it has something to do with OWS. I'd say the fundamentals of Atlas Shrugged (or Ayn Rand's Objectivism) is the exact opposite of what OWS is asking for. Yet another example of how OWS people seem to be clueless about what they're doing. Couple that with the vandalism, trash, etc. they generate with no regard for those around them, and if they were in the world of Atlas Shrugged John Galt would be saying, "Let them rot and die with the system they expect to help them."

I agree that somthe people that took out loans for liberal arts degrees are idiots and so are those that took out 100k in loans for careers that dont nor will ever exist. I took out loans for a technical degree in a field which was supposed to be booming. The problem is that my degree is not enough for any of the companies hiring. In order to meet their qualifications I would have to go back and get another 45k studnet debt with no guarantee for a job. I havent done so and don't have plans to. In fact I plan on becoming a licensed electrician through IBEW. I would recommend any kid today to not listen to their teachers and take up a trade. It may take several years to get in but when you do it will be worth it.

I agree there are too many college graduates too but the companies are still claiming skills shortages which is complete BS. There are some things that cant be oursourced but we import too much labor here in Canada and essentially get the third world wages for technical careers here. The foreigners I work with are great people and I respect them deeply but this is a major part of the problem.

The statement about corporations never being more profitable comes directly from the news here. I can also tell you that the profits at the company I work for have increased significantly year over year throughout the recession and they still cite the economy as why they have frozen wages and refuse to invest in new equipment. Yes some companies are hurting but as a whole they are doing very well financially. I would even argue that because of all this they are the reason for the slow down in the economy. Continuous growth is also not sustainable and essentially is what causes inflation. Inflation is a hidden tax on all of us.

[Vandroiy]

I don't really want to dive into this discussion, just state one thing.

(...) liberal blowhards with their hands out.

For any reasonable, internationally used definition of "liberal", this makes no sense. It's like saying "those damn communists always wanting free trade", just the other way around. How can someone who marches onto a stock exchange to hinder trade there possibly be a liberal?

Liberals, by the very meaning of the word, endorse freedom. One cannot be a liberal and demand others to pay excessive amounts of tax money for some personal agenda, because that would go against the personal freedom of the taxpayers.

Sure, it's possible to name a party "liberal" and then just do arbitrary different politics, but if you refer to such people, name them by their party.

[Jonathan Ryan Owens]

I don't really want to dive into this discussion, just state one thing.

(...) liberal blowhards with their hands out.

For any reasonable, internationally used definition of "liberal", this makes no sense. It's like saying "those damn communists always wanting free trade", just the other way around. How can someone who marches onto a stock exchange to hinder trade there possibly be a liberal?

Liberals, by the very meaning of the word, endorse freedom. One cannot be a liberal and demand others to pay excessive amounts of tax money for some personal agenda, because that would go against the personal freedom of the taxpayers.

Sure, it's possible to name a party "liberal" and then just do arbitrary different politics, but if you refer to such people, name them by their party.

In this country, Liberal means "hands out" and lots of freebies. What's your point? You just want to read your own writing?

[Vandroiy]

In this country, Liberal means "hands out" and lots of freebies. What's your point? You just want to read your own writing?

In this country, liberal means pro-market. What's your point, do you want to write exclusively for your country? If even that, I doubt everybody agrees on that kind of meaning.

When there's a collision in terminology, it's a good idea to take a step back for a moment and think about it. Usually, there is a clear answer how a word should be used. Identifying "liberal" with "demanding freebies" is just an English play on words that start with "free".

How can one do a political map if the entire "liberal versus socialist market" axis collapses to "liberal versus liberal market"? This is trying to identify an expression with its opposite. One could place liberals on the socialist side, away from the libertarians, but that does not look right either.

[memvola]

Actually all we need is social mobility - everyone has a fair chance to get wealth through competition. All kinds of economic regulation, taxes, etc are plainly adding friction to the society. Economic growth is pretty much an excuse for degrading society today.

Perfectly put, thanks.

Liberals, by the very meaning of the word, endorse freedom. One cannot be a liberal and demand others to pay excessive amounts of tax money for some personal agenda, because that would go against the personal freedom of the taxpayers.

In this country, Liberal means "hands out" and lots of freebies. What's your point? You just want to read your own writing?

I think his criticism is spot on. Blackwhite.

Getting back to Bitcoin, I don't think OWS protesters are a suitable audience. I instead suggest that we need to spread the word internationally. Believe it or not, not everyone speaks English fluently, and even the ones that do are not eager to join English-centric online culture (even if there are non-English sections). They would constantly get flamed and trolled anyway. I even think "Bitcoin", being an English name, makes perceiving it as something belonging to all humanity difficult. Besides internationalizing Bitcoin tools, we need separate sites that focus on different cultures. Maybe find a way to internationalize the name "Bitcoin". Anyway, regarding the topic, I don't think, even internationally, die-hard social democrats in general won't find it appealing.

[kjlimo]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

you need a computer, not a tent in central park to be able to use bitcoin...

[Sitarow]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

you need a computer, not a tent in central park to be able to use bitcoin...

nah all you need is an android phone

[Matthew N. Wright]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

you need a computer, not a tent in central park to be able to use bitcoin...

nah all you need is an android phone

All you really need is a photographic memory and a glance of your wallet private key.

[BadBear]

The obvious solution here is to print the blockchain and hand it out to everybody.   People can write their own changes in and everyone will get together and sync them up at the end of the night. 

[kjlimo]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

you need a computer, not a tent in central park to be able to use bitcoin...

nah all you need is an android phone

If those OWS a-holes have android phones, I'll punch them myself.  WTF are they spending money on an android phone if they are worried about paying for s**t they "need." 

I don't own an android phone, and I seem to get along just fine.  Maybe that will help them balance their checkbook...

[bittenbob]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

you need a computer, not a tent in central park to be able to use bitcoin...

nah all you need is an android phone

If those OWS a-holes have android phones, I'll punch them myself.  WTF are they spending money on an android phone if they are worried about paying for s**t they "need." 

I don't own an android phone, and I seem to get along just fine.  Maybe that will help them balance their checkbook...

I dont own a cell phone but an android phone is sure as heck a lot better than an apple phone. Android is based on Linux which is freeware software while apple is extremely propriatary.

Android is much more appropriate than iOS which can also be used.

[BadBear]

If those OWS a-holes have android phones, I'll punch them myself.  WTF are they spending money on an android phone if they are worried about paying for s**t they "need." 

I don't own an android phone, and I seem to get along just fine.  Maybe that will help them balance their checkbook...

They even have cars and microwaves, and internet!  Fucking poors.   

[bittenbob]

If those OWS a-holes have android phones, I'll punch them myself.  WTF are they spending money on an android phone if they are worried about paying for s**t they "need." 

I don't own an android phone, and I seem to get along just fine.  Maybe that will help them balance their checkbook...

They even have cars and microwaves, and internet!  Fucking poors.   

And I suppose you would only be happy if they couldnt even afford toilet paper? Doesnt say what kind of car but people need to get places. There are a lot of working poor out there. Also in the US I believe there are cell phones that are specifically subsidized for poor people.

Incidentally I dont own a car (anymore), cell phone, garbage disposal, satellite tv, washing machine or dryer. I guess I must be poor. I sure as heck feel like it though. So much for bettering your life through post secondary education.

[Matthew N. Wright]

If those OWS a-holes have android phones, I'll punch them myself.  WTF are they spending money on an android phone if they are worried about paying for s**t they "need."  

I don't own an android phone, and I seem to get along just fine.  Maybe that will help them balance their checkbook...

They even have cars and microwaves, and internet!  Fucking poors.  

And I suppose you would only be happy if they couldnt even afford toilet paper? Doesnt say what kind of car but people need to get places. There are a lot of working poor out there. Also in the US I believe there are cell phones that are specifically subsidized for poor people.

Incidentally I dont own a car (anymore), cell phone, garbage disposal, satellite tv, washing machine or dryer. I guess I must be poor. I sure as heck feel like it though. So much for bettering your life through post secondary education.

Hear hear. I blew through $200k in California, then $300k in Korea and now I'm a minimalist. I don't even want to touch a car ever again.

[kjlimo]

If those OWS a-holes have android phones, I'll punch them myself.  WTF are they spending money on an android phone if they are worried about paying for s**t they "need." 

I don't own an android phone, and I seem to get along just fine.  Maybe that will help them balance their checkbook...

They even have cars and microwaves, and internet!  Fucking poors.   

And I suppose you would only be happy if they couldnt even afford toilet paper? Doesnt say what kind of car but people need to get places. There are a lot of working poor out there. Also in the US I believe there are cell phones that are specifically subsidized for poor people.

Incidentally I dont own a car (anymore), cell phone, garbage disposal, satellite tv, washing machine or dryer. I guess I must be poor. I sure as heck feel like it though. So much for bettering your life through post secondary education.

Who promised secondary education would better your life?  Hard work and frugal lifestyles lead to success...  Secondary education is only one tool to help open the doors.  You have to get yourself through them.

[bittenbob]

If those OWS a-holes have android phones, I'll punch them myself.  WTF are they spending money on an android phone if they are worried about paying for s**t they "need." 

I don't own an android phone, and I seem to get along just fine.  Maybe that will help them balance their checkbook...

They even have cars and microwaves, and internet!  Fucking poors.   

And I suppose you would only be happy if they couldnt even afford toilet paper? Doesnt say what kind of car but people need to get places. There are a lot of working poor out there. Also in the US I believe there are cell phones that are specifically subsidized for poor people.

Incidentally I dont own a car (anymore), cell phone, garbage disposal, satellite tv, washing machine or dryer. I guess I must be poor. I sure as heck feel like it though. So much for bettering your life through post secondary education.

Who promised secondary education would better your life?  Hard work and frugal lifestyles lead to success...  Secondary education is only one tool to help open the doors.  You have to get yourself through them.

I have been very frugal and have worked very hard but I have only been marginalized at every opportunity. Hard work has nothing to do with it and who you know has everything to do with it. Companies are under the impression you must have a masters degree in order to do anything (even menial tasks) in companies anymore. I have made 30ik per month PROFT for my company and they still saw it fit to keep my wages on the margins of society claiming the economy. I used to believe hard work and proving yourself meant something but they simply do not.

As for who told me post secondary education would get me somewhere in life where do I start? Teachers, the government, companies, television, news, etc. It is all a big lie and sadly people are getting into massive debt for school that just wont pay off. This is coming from someone who was an executive in student council at my school and worked for my teachers there as well so i have a good view on the inside of the education system. Schools are a business but are propped up by government advertising and the like.

Corporations have sadly bought into it and want you to have a masters degree in order to even do menial tasks. Maybe 10 years ago a bachelors degree meant something but today it will only get you a job at mcdonalds for 100K debt (and Im not talking about arts studies). I am very fed up with this myself and am trying to start a trade because I see now that I can have a much larger impact on society than any corporation will let me have and my pay will be a lot better than if I left it up to the greedy corporations alone.

[Vandroiy]

18% internet access? Oh wow, okay, that's really bad.

But 73% has a.. car? I don't have a car! 97% television? Priorities? More people have TWO televisions than have a PC?

Okay, I admit I am astonished by this graph. I knew it was bad, but I didn't know it was that bad.


@bittenbob:

I generally agree, the schools I was in mostly wasted my time. I sometimes do coaching in math and physics, and often shake my head at how badly students are taught at school. However, I want to firmly defend the faculties of physics I've seen so far. Even though I was with them half-heartedly at most times and got a few bad grades in return, it was an awakening compared to what I'd seen before. They require of their students to think on different approaches, to be precise, efficient, and also to judge their own statements. Sure, it's still far from perfection. But the graduates I know perform very well on a vast variety of mental tasks, even outside sciences.

The situation about the jobs and bad wages... well, duh, the labor market has been kicked out of equilibrium and nobody fixes it! The correct solution is to go the OPPOSITE direction first: facilitate for companies to create jobs at massive profit margins, then let the market compete for the workers to bring wages back up.

There you have it, a solution to an enormous global problem, and everybody ignores it. Might be due to the bad education.

[DeathAndTaxes]

If those OWS a-holes have android phones, I'll punch them myself.  WTF are they spending money on an android phone if they are worried about paying for s**t they "need." 

I don't own an android phone, and I seem to get along just fine.  Maybe that will help them balance their checkbook...

You think they don't have smartphones?  LOLZ.  These are hipsters not hippies. 

[Vandroiy]

Just a side note, I think an Android phone increases productivity. Access to information is important. There are people who don't need it, but many do, and I wouldn't condemn them for putting one on their "needs" list. The pricing is very reasonable these days, so amortization is fast. My favorite smartphone is still the Nexus One, these are available used on Ebay for less than 140€.

When buying massively expensive contracts and phones to get computing power and bandwidth for gaming, I agree priorities are off. But that's not what Android was about originally.

[bb113]

Look closely and you will realize that "own" is a politician-defined word. For example, could someone really be said to own their home if they are still paying off a mortgage?

[farfiman]

18% internet access? Oh wow, okay, that's really bad.

But 73% has a.. car? I don't have a car! 97% television? Priorities? More people have TWO televisions than have a PC?

Okay, I admit I am astonished by this graph. I knew it was bad, but I didn't know it was that bad.

It is very old statistics...  7 years ago most people didnt need internet...

[Vandroiy]

It is very old statistics...  7 years ago most people didnt need internet...

Oh, silly me. I should have read everything. Thanks for clarifying.

[RodeoX]

That's exactly what we need: An inflow of liberal blowhards with their hands out. Sounds awesome.

Us liberals are already here. Remember we built the Internet, with the help of Al Gore. 

[Jonathan Ryan Owens]

That's exactly what we need: An inflow of liberal blowhards with their hands out. Sounds awesome.

Us liberals are already here. Remember we built the Internet, with the help of Al Gore. 

Oh you're a 1990s liberal. That's entirely different. Thanks for the internets!

[tvbcof]

That's exactly what we need: An inflow of liberal blowhards with their hands out. Sounds awesome.

Us liberals are already here. Remember we built the Internet, with the help of Al Gore. 

Ah yes, that old chestnut.

I actually looked that up when it was current many many years ago.  Gore clearly said that he was instrumental as a legislator in getting funding for the organizations involved in developing the Internet, but he choked on words very slightly.  This was actually quite true, and his legislative activities in this area were out in front of his peers and quite visionary.  People run with that basically non-issue to this day.

In the interest of fairness, Steven's 'bridge to nowhere' is pretty similar.  It is a bridge to Ketchican's airport which is the only fucking way to get into and out of that hell-hole much of the time (I've been there on a number of occasions.)  A big difference is that Stevens probably was tanking up on kickbacks whereas Gore was probably not (in the 'internet' case at least.)

[Brunic]

If those OWS a-holes have android phones, I'll punch them myself.  WTF are they spending money on an android phone if they are worried about paying for s**t they "need." 

I don't own an android phone, and I seem to get along just fine.  Maybe that will help them balance their checkbook...

They even have cars and microwaves, and internet!  Fucking poors.   

It's not about what they own, it is about what they owe.

-You can get a cell phone for free (I got mine and they GAVE me 100$ with it), but you got this nice little contract after that..
-You can get a new car easily, with banks offering loans, company offering credit for it.
-Same thing with home furnitures. There's a shop around here who offer new furnitures with "nothing to pay in the first 12 months!".
-You can easily buy a 300$ TV with the Future Ship credit card where you pay nothing for the first 6 months.

Problem is, people have no financial knowledge. I've never been educated to that in school, even at university, it was almost barely teached. I've learned all by myself, thanks to the internetsz!

You don't borrow for something who lose value. The only things you can borrow for are:
-A house
-A business
-An education

And sadly, housing and education doesn't seem to even worth it. The 2008 crash was caused by poor housing management while universities produce students financially crippled.

Events like OWS occur when the average citizen is equally fucked as the low-quality citizen. If somebody decide to go to school, study something relevant (like Marketing), get his diploma and find his situation similar or worse than his lazy weed smoking neighbor, if that happens regularly to many good citizens of the state, you get OWS.

[deltanine]

That's exactly what we need: An inflow of liberal blowhards with their hands out. Sounds awesome.

Us liberals are already here. Remember we built the Internet, with the help of Al Gore. 

Ah yes, that old chestnut.

I actually looked that up when it was current many many years ago.  Gore clearly said that he was instrumental as a legislator in getting funding for the organizations involved in developing the Internet, but he choked on words very slightly.  This was actually quite true, and his legislative activities in this area were out in front of his peers and quite visionary.  People run with that basically non-issue to this day.

In the interest of fairness, Steven's 'bridge to nowhere' is pretty similar.  It is a bridge to Ketchican's airport which is the only fucking way to get into and out of that hell-hole much of the time (I've been there on a number of occasions.)  A big difference is that Stevens probably was tanking up on kickbacks whereas Gore was probably not (in the 'internet' case at least.)

This is quite the coincidence!  I was just reading an article in the NYT about the departed Stevens and the questionable prosecution against him.  That's nice you are being fair with him in regards to the bridge to nowhere but then not so nice to undercut that sentiment by being unfair about "kickbacks".
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/us/politics/no-charges-recommended-against-prosecutors-in-ted-stevens-case.html?_r=2&src=twr

But none of these false claims really make any difference as Stevens is dead and no one cares about Gore any more.

[tvbcof]

...

In the interest of fairness, Steven's 'bridge to nowhere' is pretty similar.  It is a bridge to Ketchican's airport which is the only fucking way to get into and out of that hell-hole much of the time (I've been there on a number of occasions.)  A big difference is that Stevens probably was tanking up on kickbacks whereas Gore was probably not (in the 'internet' case at least.)

This is quite the coincidence!  I was just reading an article in the NYT about the departed Stevens and the questionable prosecution against him.  That's nice you are being fair with him in regards to the bridge to nowhere but then not so nice to undercut that sentiment by being unfair about "kickbacks".
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/22/us/politics/no-charges-recommended-against-prosecutors-in-ted-stevens-case.html?_r=2&src=twr

But none of these false claims really make any difference as Stevens is dead and no one cares about Gore any more.

I said 'probably' because I don't know the details on that level but it was his normal mode of operation.  Most Alaskans knew all about it.  The funny thing was that they were somewhat mystified that corruption in this way was even considered wrong.  I've spent a fair amount of time up there over the years and it is one of the reasons why the Libertarian ideology leave a foul aftertaste in my mouth.

[bb113]

Half-assed libertarianism is worse than half-assed statism. I'm not yet sure about full-assed though.

[Jonathan Ryan Owens]

Half-assed libertarianism is worse than half-assed statism. I'm not yet sure about full-assed though.

^ Truth. At least half assed statists contend with and accept the role of the box which we've all grown up in. The half baked libertarians are more theoretical and detached from reality, and desperately motivated to convert others with some questionable theories and systems of belief.

Thank you for being you, bitcoinbitcoin113. <3

-Jon

[old_engineer]

18% internet access? Oh wow, okay, that's really bad.

But 73% has a.. car? I don't have a car! 97% television? Priorities? More people have TWO televisions than have a PC?

Okay, I admit I am astonished by this graph. I knew it was bad, but I didn't know it was that bad.

That's the same stat that jumped out at me - really?!?  Admittedly, this is from 2003 and 2005, but still - 18% with Internet access at home?  If you were growing up in a house without Internet access, you'd likely be at a huge disadvantage to your Internet-enabled peers.  No Wikipedia for most poor children!

Oh, and televisions are basically free here in the US, $10 at any thrift store, and great entertainment compared to staring at a wall if you don't have Internet access.

@bittenbob:

The situation about the jobs and bad wages... well, duh, the labor market has been kicked out of equilibrium and nobody fixes it! The correct solution is to go the OPPOSITE direction first: facilitate for companies to create jobs at massive profit margins, then let the market compete for the workers to bring wages back up.

There you have it, a solution to an enormous global problem, and everybody ignores it. Might be due to the bad education.

The last graph in this series says it all: wages as a percentage of the economy is at an all-time low in the US:

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1

[old_engineer]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

That's exactly what we need: An inflow of liberal blowhards with their hands out. Sounds awesome.

Fuck you and your myopic fantasy world where liberals are greedy parasites.  Wait a second, that sounds like the GOP... I think you're just projecting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

[Jonathan Ryan Owens]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

That's exactly what we need: An inflow of liberal blowhards with their hands out. Sounds awesome.

Fuck you and your myopic fantasy world where liberals are greedy parasites.  Wait a second, that sounds like the GOP... I think you're just projecting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

And now a flashback from 1983!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLiai4gg_0Q

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(making_excuses)

[bb113]

It seems to me that many of the people who are from the OWS movement would be supporters of the BTC movement. Given that so many of them are camping out in various occupy protests around the world I can't help but think that this is affecting current BTC prices through non activity/involvement from them. Just opening the door to a conversation here but I think this may have prices temporarily lower than they should be.

That's exactly what we need: An inflow of liberal blowhards with their hands out. Sounds awesome.

Fuck you and your myopic fantasy world where liberals are greedy parasites.  Wait a second, that sounds like the GOP... I think you're just projecting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Liberal blowhards do exist, and do go to occupy. They are people who do things like take out government loans to attend artschool (and not cheap artschool) while wanting all debts in the united states forgiven. And yes these are people who know the degree won't help them get a job later. However, they have never bothered to find out how much private debt exists in the US. I would not say all liberals are blowhards though. I would also not say all of those people who seem like blowhards at first sight are actually closed minded.

[bb113]

Also, conservative blowhards with their hands out (oil subsidies, etc) are far worse.