Identifying alts using posted addresses

[UserU]

I have also some confusion about this issue. And sometimes I have investigated mine by own. so that I can report it to the community. Because It's really possible to do by some bad person who does not like me. But I think no high-rank member will do it. Most of the cases it might be done by some shady and red trusted members.

Revenge knows no boundaries. Some high-rank could always go through great lengths such as creating a new account using a VPN on another device.

[Harlot]

So far I haven't seen any cases where a member got tagged solely just because the other user have posted the same address as he was, I always see additional evidences such us the same Telegram account, addresses are connected to one wallet, same date of registration, same topics being posted, same bounties being joined but just tagging a member and another account with just the same address alone shouldn't be enough to convince any DT member to tag those accounts this wouldn't really be fair for the member if he is being framed for something. Also if they are guilty you'll see the common answers like "we are a group of family","we are friends" so these types of alibis are a sure red flag of what a bounty cheater says.

[ChuckBuck]

True, they are going to post an address that they control to get the coin.   But if they don't really care about the airdrop (or whatever) they can just use an alt account to post the address of someone they don't like and both accounts are banned.

I've thought about it before, but it doesn't seem to be a big deal since many people here have a lot of experience in detecting connected accounts, so I did not ask about it. There are many factors to consider whether two accounts are connected to each other? It was mentioned above, so I will not repeat. The problem is that even though the accounts are proven to be interconnected, it is still not important, no problem (I have never agreed with this opinion, but I have to admit it). The most concrete example I've ever had, the connection between RapTarX and Little Mouse, it has been proved. But nothing happened to them, no negative trust, nothing. Many agree that as long as the two accounts are not cheat on the same signature campaign, it is not cheating, and one person has the right to use the two accounts to participate in two different signature campaigns   It means the connected accounts are still safe  

We go to another case, suppose the user makes a connection between the two accounts deliberately with a sub account, then participates in the same signature campaign with the person they hate. It can also happen, but at a very low rate. Signature campaigns require certain ranks, in my opinion the lowest is Full member is necessary. No one will waste a Full member account just to sabotage others, the value of Full member is not small to waste when the merit system has worked very well. Even if someone defies to make, nothing to be sure because we can still consider other factors. So I believe this is not a big problem if this forum really works in a fair way  
Hit me if I'm wrong somewhere   it took me more than 5 minutes to present it

[bonesjonesreturns]

How long do you think it will be before people start framing each other by posting addresses that are not theirs?

I believe such cases must have already happened. This is less of a problem than you think. If somebody enters some shitcoin bounty with my address, is anybody reasonable going to believe it was me? [1] The same goes for you and others. Most affected members would be other bounty spammers, sig. spammers on various levels. Behavioural analyses makes this less of a problem.

True, they are going to post an address that they control to get the coin.   But if they don't really care about the airdrop (or whatever) they can just use an alt account to post the address of someone they don't like and both accounts are banned.

For this reason we can not say for sure that two or more accounts are connected just because same address posted from those accounts or someone quoted someone else's post which looks they were following up some comments. I have already seen few cases and my standing was pretty much looking to where these ends.

In >95% of the cases that people were connected this way, they were actually connected. Are you saying such rates of accuracy are inadequate?
[1] There was a case where a long time ago where Yahoo asked me linking me to some spreadsheet, I had no idea what the project was nor did I enter its airdrop.

I would totally believe jt was you.
You have promoted scams before
Atriz admitted knowingly spamming for a scam and wanted to get paid so stuck with it. You and he traded 50 merit chunks for spamming the same shit project.

So your arguement does not hold water atrix. Lol

Yes this can happen and can be a huge problem.

There is no proof of alt  you can never prove it is the same person.  Even style analysis can be reverse engineered to provide strong match. Copying same receive address is of course simple

Proof of alt doesn't exist

[Vod]

Proof of alt doesn't exist

There are ways to prove alt accounts, like if both accounts sign the same address, or one that was ever used to transfer coins between them.

But the better solution is to build a system where alt accounts have no value. 

[Initscri]

I see a lot of scam busters on here doing a great job tracking alt accounts.

How long do you think it will be before people start framing each other by posting addresses that are not theirs?

True, they are going to post an address that they control to get the coin.   But if they don't really care about the airdrop (or whatever) they can just use an alt account to post the address of someone they don't like and both accounts are banned.

I guess I should take this opp to say I've never engaged in any activity here that required me to post an address for payment.  

I always take this into account. I don't believe the indicator should be the primary source of evidence of 2 (or more) accounts being connected. It can be secondary, but not primary. Posting style is arguably more effective in providing proof IMO.

A combination of the two and I would probably believe that a connection exists.

[Jet Cash]

Is there a thread where we can list all of our alts in one post? I know individual accounts can be posted in the rep section, but maybe it would be useful if we had a reference section with a primary account listing all publicly admitted alts.

[tranthidung]

Is there a thread where we can list all of our alts in one post? I know individual accounts can be posted in the rep section, but maybe it would be useful if we had a reference section with a primary account listing all publicly admitted alts.

It does not totally fit your needs but maybe you can use it. Known Alts of any-one - A User Generated List Mk III (2020 Q2)

[Timelord2067]

Is there a thread where we can list all of our alts in one post? I know individual accounts can be posted in the rep section, but maybe it would be useful if we had a reference section with a primary account listing all publicly admitted alts.

It does not totally fit your needs but maybe you can use it. Known Alts of any-one - A User Generated List Mk III (2020 Q2)

Many thanks for recommending the Known Alts of any-one - A User Generated List ^{Mk III} thread - yes indeed you are welcome to post your alt connections there using our custom made Submission Form.

The Known Alts thread is an opportunity for users to identify their own alts, or alts of others and potentially alert others when there are scams that have occurred by those alts.  You won't be given negative trust feedback simply for having an alt as it's a widely accepted practice such as myself having a "mobile" alt.  And, for people launching crypto/games/casino etc and want a brand name for their launch.

[bonesjonesreturns]

Proof of alt doesn't exist

There are ways to prove alt accounts, like if both accounts sign the same address, or one that was ever used to transfer coins between them.

But the better solution is to build a system where alt accounts have no value. 

Why would transfer of coins prove alts?

It would be unusual for alts to sign to prove they were alts unless they intended to prove that
Malboroza was correct when he responded to the claim about his alt zorrobeck
That unless you have video evidence of him posting from both accounts then he would not entertain the claim.
Even then you have twins?
Deep fakes
Siamese twin holding a basket ball high on his chest slightly off to the right hand side
Genuine multiple personalities unaware of their " friends "

That was just a joke but certainly posted address is very very weak sauce and easily faked.

[noorman0]

_snip_

Basically your question is a follow-up clue that clarifies the evidence that the account is connected after OP question about posting the same address even though it's not the owner.

Not all, but most have been proven. Therefore it's necessary to track their transaction history. Their wallet ever accepts or stores altcoins that are at least 80% the same and transfers all of them to one another or collects several altcoins to one main wallet/exchange with the aim of making it easier to sell.

Proof will be stronger if they surrender (not oppose) the accusations or reg tag they have received.

[Quickseller]

I can assure you that what you describe has happened years ago, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it continues to happen. Luckily, in the above case, the imposter made a mistake, although that could have been by design.

One way to prevent yourself from falling for this is to confirm that whatever was received was valuable and was actually spent. The order addresses were posted may allow you to rule out an impostor. Someone trying to attract attention is a good indicator they are an imposter.

You really need to think critically when deciding if a posted addresses is evidence that two accounts are alts.

[Timelord2067]

Malboroza was correct when he responded to the claim about his alt zorrobeck

That person hasn't posted in this thread - where are you quoting from?  Please elaborate on your/his claim.

[Mpamaegbu]

Honestly Vod, I have shared this thought too and you're correct to the last letter. This is a dangerous time and tide we live in with scammers and blood letting goons everywhere.

Although this is slightly different — At a time in the past I made a suggestion on an Altcoin thread to BM to help curb cheating and scamming. It was simple - BM should ask all participants to update their profiles with their wallet address and then update their spreadsheets from that address. That way, scammers won't he able to use other people's accounts for social media tasks.

[Vod]

There are ways to prove alt accounts, like if both accounts sign the same address, or one that was ever used to transfer coins between them.

But the better solution is to build a system where alt accounts have no value.  

Why would transfer of coins prove alts?

Sorry, let me rephrase.

If one account signs address A and the other signs address B and then we ever see coins moving from A to B it's a good indication of alt accounts.

Again, this is where technology will help.  Like the plagiarism bot, a good algorithm can detect alt accounts from many years ago.  Unlike the plagiarism bot, the results won't prove harm, and will need to be reviewed.

[Timelord2067]

Sorry, let me rephrase.

If one account signs address A and the other signs address B and then we ever see coins moving from A to B it's a good indication of alt accounts.

No.

Again, this is where technology will help.  Like the plagiarism bot, a good algorithm can detect alt accounts from many years ago.  Unlike the plagiarism bot, the results won't prove harm, and will need to be reviewed.

OK, even I'm lost on what you are asking on this one...

If user Alice signs wallet address 1aaaa... and also signs wallet address 1bbbb... and then user Bob posts that wallet address, then it's a sure sign that Bob is Alice.  If Bob is asked to sign wallet 1b... but can't then Bob is using Alice's wallet address to impersonate them.  If Bob *can* sign 1bbbb... then Bob is Alice.


If user Alice signs wallet address 1aaaa... and Bob signs wallet address 1bbbb... then they could send Crypto to each other all day long and it doesn't prove anything except maybe they have satoshis to burn on TX fees.


IF on the other hand Alice signs wallet address 1aaaa... and Bob signs wallet address 1bbbb... and then BOTH wallets are in the send side of a TX - then that proves Alice and Bob are alts as they are using wallet addresses from the same wallet.

e.g.

tx 123456789

output

wallet address 1aaaa... BTC 0.999
wallet address 1bbbb... BTC 0.001

sends to wallet address 3cccc... BTC 1.0

The only way both wallet addresses can be a part of the outgoing transaction is if they are part of the same wallet.

[LoyceV]

But the better solution is to build a system where alt accounts have no value.

How? One solution would be to make sure all accounts have no value, but that goes against the forum's mission to be "as free as possible". Another solution would be KYC, but that's not going to happen any time soon either.
I haven't seen any other forum in which alt accounts were a problem, or even a thing people used for that matter. Bitcointalk is different than any other forum I've ever seen in so many ways, and in general that's a good thing.

If one account signs address A and the other signs address B and then we ever see coins moving from A to B it's a good indication of alt accounts.

I'd say that's a good indication of a trade taking place

I don't tag users based on one of them posting the other's address, and I recommend others not to do it either. I sometimes ask myself: could this be done to my account without my knowledge? If the answer is yes, the evidence is no real evidence and whoever is blamed should get the benefit of the doubt.

[Vod]

But the better solution is to build a system where alt accounts have no value.

How?

If you don't return my PMs, you have to wait like everyone else.  

I'd glad most have the knowledge that a simple copy/paste of an address is proof of nothing; the same as copy/paste of any information.  I'm sure the community will react the proper way if an accusation ever comes up.  

(One of the many reasons I'm trying to use vanity generated wallet addresses for the various SigCamps I've signed up for)

Missed this one.   That is a bad idea, since it helps people assume it is you, with something you cannot control.  You are fighting ignorance of newbies here - they won't know a vanity address is something anyone can generate.

[ChuckBuck]

If one account signs address A and the other signs address B and then we ever see coins moving from A to B it's a good indication of alt accounts.

I'd say that's a good indication of a trade taking place

But if they participate regularly in multiple campaigns together and all the received coins are transferred to the same address, is it another good sign? It also says that they cheated, right?

I don't tag users based on one of them posting the other's address, and I recommend others not to do it either. I sometimes ask myself: could this be done to my account without my knowledge? If the answer is yes, the evidence is no real evidence and whoever is blamed should get the benefit of the doubt.

I tend to agree with you on this matter  considering all the factors that are needed to make the right decision, the connected account is not bad for tagged, but using the connected account for fraud is bad, can't cover up. It's hard to find common ground in this matter 

[Vod]

KYC?

Wouldn't KYC make alt accounts more valuable?  The more verification, the more you can sell it for.