Accusation against Zazarb (escrow) for misconduct (Dropped)

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

What happened: Zazarb moved funds from escrow address after explicitly agreeing to keep the escrow funds in the monitoring address. He then proceeded to use the escrow funds in his high-interest lending business to lend out and earn interest without the consent of either party. He ignored my request to move the escrow funds back to the address. Zazarb is refusing to release escrow to my current address as well as the repayment address agreed to between the parties.  

Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=369212

Reference Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1318061.0
Amount Scammed: 0.01BTC
Payment Method: Bitcoin

Additional Notes:

zazarb agrees to not move funds:

Quote A

if you want I can  escrow this, but it is not guaranteed that people who have left you negative trust, will remove it.
(I will send confirmation to blazr and QS)
escrow address if you want monitoring 13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV  (you should send full amount +tx fee)
or without monitoring, and fee free 1AxyPdVoRVkita9fnqCYaYZgssKvbzEpbL

What do you mean by monitoring??? And what about full amount???
The only thing remaining here is interest, and that is BTC0.01 for Watoshi Sir, so do you mean that I need to send BTC0.01 to that address starting with 13 plus tx fee??? I am ready to send that much to you, but after Sunday/Monday, because I will get paid by my campaign guys this Sunday/Monday... About last week's earnings, I redeemed them because I needed to pay some real life bills and I told this because I know, some over-smart people will come up and ask for the same...

monitoring -  you can see account balance that the amount unused,
Yes I mean remaining  amount what you owe for watoshi.

Quote B:

Hey guys, I would like to update you that I recently got a message from manager that I got paid currently...
I am extremely happy that now I will be able to put the amount in Zazarb's escrow service to prove myself innocent...  

if you want I can  escrow this, but it is not guaranteed that people who have left you negative trust, will remove it.
(I will send confirmation to blazr and QS)
escrow address if you want monitoring 13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV  (you should send full amount +tx fee)

Can you please confirm that the above mentioned address with monitoring is still on???
I will then send the amount... Also, I would like to let you know that only BTC0.01 is remaining, so please let me know that exactly how much should I send you to that address???

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

This is zazarb from bitcointalk. Today is 27/09/ 2016

I confirm that  address to escrow 13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV
please send  remaining amount what you owe  Watoshi-Dimobuto (0,01BTC+tx fee 0.0001)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: Keybase OpenPGP v2.0.58
Comment: https://keybase.io/crypto

wsBcBAABCgAGBQJX6mDtAAoJEEesS+GBgNwFyI0H+gPLFNQbfweCrJ0NfauasDOL
RSNwWmA4EXjpkRK1VAH3xBTheMmbGyb/H75pbajD5s0yBeWzuVZzhugrZB5Wq1xj
xRGwLRksS2KvVLTYdCULGT1cr7Im0dH7h8G27vsKR3qVWwW5qwHX+PZ85Om0sXSa
mOjkJfhfXv1818ms2bKfxw817M0ek++Zi7WuOa+JxkJXIug4TbFWmPla9FdDRH+d
6ARAXNmYaZ0hBL8DZlk5jG4tZd16ChlMycYTEtovBJA2GJv6RsiE55ZYPatNFeFQ
0NnnVI4OARm/7JUKcjX79XvKKheyhdiRJQZ/892x/xFlQX46j62ukWPbeyi8KgA=
=ARJ3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

zazarb moves escrow funds on 2017-06-21:

Escrow address : https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV

Balance history : https://bitinfocharts.com/bitcoin/address/13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV-full

Timeline :

2016-01-12
I give loan
2016-02-17
gkv9 repays principal (36 days)
2016-09-27
gkv9 repays interest to escrow zazarb (223 days)
2017-06-21
zazarb starts to lend out escrow funds (267 days)

zazarb was fully aware of my inactivity for around 200 days when he explicitly agreed to keep an outstanding balance of 0.01BTC in the escrow address. He violated the agreement within 267 days.


zazarb uses escrow funds to lend out and earn interest :

zazarb's lending services : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1161170.0

I did not borrow in this forum (in real life too), because I always have more funds than I need. So your statement that I misappropriated the escrow funds(even 0.01BTC!!! is funny.
My  address you mentioned, was used for my  daily operations, after some time its was changed to other, escroved fund moved too.
My agreement was not found Watoshi-Dimobuto to provide funds.He had to turn to me and better not after 100 years
I did not request any remuneration for this service, and I am always ready to do agreement. The only condition i have to be 100% sure that funds will go to the real Watoshi-Dimobuto.
This is why i am asking you sign with one off address you staked here.

Ignores request to move the escrow funds back.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5249117.msg54450284#msg54450284

Refuses to release escrow to original repayment address unedited and quoted in the opening post of lending thread

Quote C :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5249117.msg54456532#msg54456532

To understand my position more clearly, just need to answer  the question, why gkv9 did not send the money directly to repayment address in 2016,
but used me as escrow with the obligation to transfer funds to Watoshi-Dimobuto when he come back?(at that time he was missing for only a few weeks)

You can say he's already back, do you guarantee 100% that it is the same person? I don't. And he doesn’t bother to prove the opposite. It is not at all difficult to prove that address in your possession even if you not have priv key.

As I said other thread , If someone thinks otherwise and takes responsibility , I am happy to transfer the funds to another trustworthy escrow service.

Quote D :

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

This is zazarb from bitcointalk. Today is 27/09/ 2016

I confirm that  address to escrow 13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV
please send  remaining amount what you owe  Watoshi-Dimobuto (0,01BTC+tx fee 0.0001)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: Keybase OpenPGP v2.0.58
Comment: https://keybase.io/crypto

wsBcBAABCgAGBQJX6mDtAAoJEEesS+GBgNwFyI0H+gPLFNQbfweCrJ0NfauasDOL
RSNwWmA4EXjpkRK1VAH3xBTheMmbGyb/H75pbajD5s0yBeWzuVZzhugrZB5Wq1xj
xRGwLRksS2KvVLTYdCULGT1cr7Im0dH7h8G27vsKR3qVWwW5qwHX+PZ85Om0sXSa
mOjkJfhfXv1818ms2bKfxw817M0ek++Zi7WuOa+JxkJXIug4TbFWmPla9FdDRH+d
6ARAXNmYaZ0hBL8DZlk5jG4tZd16ChlMycYTEtovBJA2GJv6RsiE55ZYPatNFeFQ
0NnnVI4OARm/7JUKcjX79XvKKheyhdiRJQZ/892x/xFlQX46j62ukWPbeyi8KgA=
=ARJ3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Please release escrow to 1P6WESDzkd2qZGZNXVP2pM8XiFUuPQnwKk

The original terms of the loan were that you would receive payment to 1624xVu7J5nscwYqmuBvhPidjMvBqgoN5H

Are you willing/able to receive the payment to that address? If so, that should resolve any issue of the possibility that your account might be hacked.

Yes. I am willing to receive payment to 1624xVu7J5nscwYqmuBvhPidjMvBqgoN5H

Since you can't sign with this address, how you reach this fund, after I will send it?(address inactive since 2016-02-19) I just want remind that initial reason  why gkv9 sent fund to escrow , was that there was a fear that this address might not be used longer.
Or you, after a failed attempt to retrieve btc, try to just burn them?
Who will compensate loss if it turns out later that you're not real watoshi?

Other notes :
Reputation thread Watoshi-Dimobuto v. zazarb/Lauda https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5249117.0
LaudaM has no direct connection to this scam accusation. My private messages to LaudaM ware about reconsidering trust feedback on my profile for loan default of 0.06 BTC ($15 on the date) by Watoshi. This was after the same person defaulted on another loan after giving this account as collateral. I did not break any forum rules, default loans, scam anyone or hack this account.

I strongly believe zazarb's conduct as escrow is terrible and he should pay reasonable damages and be banned from acting as an escrow. Tolerating this kind of behavior would mean escrows can gamble with escrow funds and all will be forgiven as long as the escrow agent pays it back in the end. Escrows must not put escrow funds at risk. Zazarb not only violated this principle, he used the escrowed funds as an interest-free collateral-free unauthorized loan, and lent them out at his discretion.

[1715554045]

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[Timelord2067]

Just so we are clear, are you talking about transactions that occurred three or four years ago?  Are they ongoing issues?  If not, why the delay in reporting this?  (and if he's using the funds elsewhere, what is the issues with him returning funds to you from other sources?

Can you outline what the original agreement was etc in your own words in a one paragraph walk through of who's funds, what the purpose of their being in escrow that sort of thing.

I also note you woke up five days ago - where have you been between the 15 May 2016, 23:37:29 and 15 May 2020, 02:58:14 (four years to the day no less) when you posted this:

Bet ID d71b774c-7cbf-4734-b73f-3ab33367be8b
Username WatO
Payout x100

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

Just so we are clear, are you talking about transactions that occurred three or four years ago?  Are they ongoing issues?  If not, why the delay in reporting this?  (and if he's using the funds elsewhere, what is the issues with him returning funds to you from other sources?

Escrow refuses to release funds to both the address I provided now and the address I provided in 2016 when I lend gkv9.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1318061.msg54454485#msg54454485 (Updated link. There are two other posts where he gives excuses like this.)

Can you outline what the original agreement was etc in your own words in a one paragraph walk through of who's funds, what the purpose of their being in escrow that sort of thing.

I lend gkv9 0.05BTC as one of three lenders. He paid back the principal. I increased the interest from 0.001BTC to 0.01BTC as a repayment for a previous adjusted loan before I left. After a few months, gkv9 deposited the interest funds to escrow to repay me when I come back online.

I also note you woke up five days ago - where have you been between the 15 May 2016, 23:37:29 and 15 May 2020, 02:58:14 (four years to the day no less) when you posted this:

I was bored of the forum. When I came back last time, I tried to join a few signature campaigns and was rejected because of general inactivity.

[Harkorede]

Just so we are clear, are you talking about transactions that occurred three or four years ago?  Are they ongoing issues?  If not, why the delay in reporting this?  (and if he's using the funds elsewhere, what is the issues with him returning funds to you from other sources?

This has been going on for days now, I think there is some catching up to do for you... This whole issue has turned to a shit show.

From what I can conclude, Watoshi has some valid arguments, but AFAICT doesn't have access to any of those said addresses, but would rather the coins go to waste in either of those old addresses than ending up with Zazarb. Zazarb, on the other hand have made reasonable points too, but It all comes down to who is willing to be less-stubborn.

[Timelord2067]

Escrow refuses to release funds to both the address I provided now and the address I provided in 2016 when I lend gkv9.

https://  bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1318061.msg54450442#msg54450442

Your link doesn't show a "refusal" by anyone.


Perhaps you didn't notice this:

I also note you woke up five days ago - where have you been between the 15 May 2016, 23:37:29 and 15 May 2020, 02:58:14 (four years to the day no less) when you posted this:

This has been going on for days now, I think there is some catching up to do for you... This whole issue has turned to a shit show.

I tend not to watch Lauda defecate in public.  Besides, this is the actual "scam accusation".

(am scroll/reading the LaudaM defecation thread and it looks like post #2 by @Yoshi sums it up nicely as does @Joel_Jantsen's post #2 in the original loan thread that has been referenced:

Your account password was reset recently .Kind of shady . What if the account was sold and the new owner is using that to get this loan ?

EDIT : Whoever is willing to give this loan ,please go through this thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915029.40 The Op doesn't seem to have a good repayment history.

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

Just so we are clear, are you talking about transactions that occurred three or four years ago?  Are they ongoing issues?  If not, why the delay in reporting this?  (and if he's using the funds elsewhere, what is the issues with him returning funds to you from other sources?

This has been going on for days now, I think there is some catching up to do for you... This whole issue has turned to a shit show.

From what I can conclude, Watoshi has some valid arguments, but AFAICT doesn't have access to any of those said addresses, but would rather the coins go to waste in either of those old addresses than ending up with Zazarb. Zazarb, on the other hand have made reasonable points too, but It all comes down to who is willing to be less-stubborn.

I did ask Zazarb to donate the amount. Aside from that I have every intention of receiving the 0.01BTC owed to me.

Escrow refuses to release funds to both the address I provided now and the address I provided in 2016 when I lend gkv9.

https://  bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1318061.msg54450442#msg54450442

Your link doesn't show a "refusal" by anyone.


Perhaps you didn't notice this:

I also note you woke up five days ago - where have you been between the 15 May 2016, 23:37:29 and 15 May 2020, 02:58:14 (four years to the day no less) when you posted this:

This has been going on for days now, I think there is some catching up to do for you... This whole issue has turned to a shit show.

I tend not to watch Lauda defecate in public.  Besides, this is the actual "scam accusation".

(am scroll/reading the LaudaM defecation thread and it looks like post #2 by @Yoshi sums it up nicely as does @Joel_Jantsen's post #2 in the original loan thread that has been referenced:

Your account password was reset recently .Kind of shady . What if the account was sold and the new owner is using that to get this loan ?

EDIT : Whoever is willing to give this loan ,please go through this thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915029.40 The Op doesn't seem to have a good repayment history.

I updated the post above.

Yoshi is talking about negative feedback Lauda left on my profile.
OP of the loan thread is gkv9. I didn't reset my account password. Joel_Jantsen posts that gkv9's password was reset recently and doesn't seem to have a good repayment history.

Both the posts are unrelated to this thread.

[Csmiami]

Funny I haven't seen this ultimatum posted here....

You did not keep your part of escrow agreement. You misappropriated the escrowed funds within 1 year of escrow and used it at your discretion. In the interest of fairness, I will consider it a loan from the day of misappropriation to the day you send 0.01BTC back to the address at the interest rates gkv9 offered to pay in the opening post.

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV

The interest rate in the opening post is 20% every 4 weeks. There are 151 full weeks between 2017-06-21 and 2020-05-17.

Principal and interest compounded every 4 weeks at 20% for 148 weeks is 8.5056BTC.

I will accept any of the following arrangements :

• You will release escrow of 0.01BTC to my address 1P6WESDzkd2qZGZNXVP2pM8XiFUuPQnwKk.
• You will release escrow of 0.01BTC to https://files.savethechildren.org/cryptocurrency-donation/ and PM me the proof of donation.
• You will require me to spend my time recovering addresses I used 3 and 4 years ago and once I prove I lend OP, you will release escrow of 0.01BTC and interest of 8.4956BTC.

Pick one.

I must say; sending the funds to the original repayment address, event if the coins may get burnt, should be the optimal result, because it should be in control of OP. But, if that address is in control of OP, there is nothing stopping him from signing the message, so we're cricling back to the same point...

It's also true that it may seem odd that zarzab moved the funds of a monitored address, but the reasons for doing so can be a lot, so it's not really a valid point after 4 years.
Easiest solution? Sign the damm message like you were told 4 days (i think) ago and end this agony at once

[Timelord2067]

Why exactly is the OP @Watoshi-Dimobuto now Trolling my Known Alts thread?  What do you hope to achieve?

It's also true that it may seem odd that zarzab moved the funds of a monitored address, but the reasons for doing so can be a lot, so it's not really a valid point after 4 years.
Easiest solution? Sign the damm message like you were told 4 days (i think) ago and end this agony at once

You could also explain why you have come back after a four year absence (or are you a hacker and therefore can't provide a signed message as requested?)

[Csmiami]

Why exactly is the OP @Watoshi-Dimobuto now Trolling my Known Alts thread?  What do you hope to achieve?

Zarzab pointed out that he had a defaulted loan on his trust feedback, and that the escrowed funds should go to the creditor of that loan. AFAIK, the connection between his account and the one taking the loan was made on that thread, so I'd bet that's the reason

[Timelord2067]

Why exactly is the OP @Watoshi-Dimobuto now Trolling my Known Alts thread?  What do you hope to achieve?

Zarzab pointed out that he had a defaulted loan on his trust feedback, and that the escrowed funds should go to the creditor of that loan. AFAIK, the connection between his account and the one taking the loan was made on that thread, so I'd bet that's the reason

Yep - found it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1702409.msg17096873#msg17096873 (although that's not the post /she was referring to)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: [User Generated] - Known alts of anyone
06 December 2016, 19:25:35
   
 +Merit  #44
Accounts Connected: Watoshi-Dimobuto, searle421, Zorrocoin, Watsohi,

[Timelord2067]

If you think I hacked this account, give some evidence. Don't derail this thread.

Given you're Trolling of the Known Alts thread just now, I'd say there might be something in it given you don't seem willing to provide proof (signed message) to back up your claim.

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

Why exactly is the OP @Watoshi-Dimobuto now Trolling my Known Alts thread?  What do you hope to achieve?

It's also true that it may seem odd that zarzab moved the funds of a monitored address, but the reasons for doing so can be a lot, so it's not really a valid point after 4 years.
Easiest solution? Sign the damm message like you were told 4 days (i think) ago and end this agony at once

You could also explain why you have come back after a four year absence (or are you a hacker and therefore can't provide a signed message as requested?)

What kind of explanation?
I was busy. I did check the thread one or two months after I left. After that I forgot about the loan and stopped visiting this forum entirely. I am glad I left. The members I knew left this place long ago.

If you think I hacked this account, give some evidence. Don't derail this thread. You can discuss further in the lending thread or open a new thread in scam accusation to discuss it.

If you think I hacked this account, give some evidence. Don't derail this thread.

Given you're Trolling of the Known Alts thread just now, I'd say there might be something in it given you don't seem willing to provide proof (signed message) to back up your claim.

You are trolling this thread.


I deleted the post.

[Csmiami]

---

He is not; you can't expect to come back 4 years later, not verify yourself; accuse the escrow of stealing the funds, and think that everyone will nod to that without making any questions and checking your every move looking for indicators of the account being stolen/sold.
Looks like you deleted the part in which "users like me have made you pay for other's loans...." so who are those "users like me", and what loans have they made you repay that weren't yours? Was that with an alt account?

If it is $15, I can settle it. It won't be the first time people like you force me to pay someone else's loan. The creditor of that loan is gone for good. Zarzab never intended to pay me from the beginning. He wants to keep the money.

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

Why exactly is the OP @Watoshi-Dimobuto now Trolling my Known Alts thread?  What do you hope to achieve?

Zarzab pointed out that he had a defaulted loan on his trust feedback, and that the escrowed funds should go to the creditor of that loan. AFAIK, the connection between his account and the one taking the loan was made on that thread, so I'd bet that's the reason

Yep - found it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1702409.msg17096873#msg17096873 (although that's not the post /she was referring to)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: [User Generated] - Known alts of anyone
06 December 2016, 19:25:35
   
 +Merit  #44
Accounts Connected: Watoshi-Dimobuto, searle421, Zorrocoin, Watsohi,

Off-topic. But, yes. When you are relying on outdated connections to give feedbacks some of them can be undeserving.

---

He is not; you can't expect to come back 4 years later, not verify yourself; accuse the escrow of stealing the funds, and think that everyone will nod to that without making any questions and checking your every move looking for indicators of the account being stolen/sold.
Looks like you deleted the part in which "users like me have made you pay for other's loans...." so who are those "users like me", and what loans have they made you repay that weren't yours? Was that with an alt account?

If it is $15, I can settle it. It won't be the first time people like you force me to pay someone else's loan. The creditor of that loan is gone for good. Zarzab never intended to pay me from the beginning. He wants to keep the money.

Off-topic

Please open a new thread if you are accusing me.



Just to be clear, I am not accusing Zazarb to force him into releasing escrow. He won't anyway. I honestly think this is not how escrows are supposed to work. Please don't consider this thread as an extension of the lending section thread.

The subject of this scam accusation is misconduct and breach of contract by Zazarb.

Is using escrow funds to give loans to others without permission OK?

[suchmoon]

Is using escrow funds to give loans to others without permission OK?

You were not around when the agreement with the escrow was made and you were not around to give the permission when zazarb moved the funds. Given the timeframes involved things may change. You're unable to access your old address yourself. Zazarb at least kept the funds and still has access to them.

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

Is using escrow funds to give loans to others without permission OK?

You were not around when the agreement with the escrow was made and you were not around to give the permission when zazarb moved the funds. Given the timeframes involved things may change. You're unable to access your old address yourself. Zazarb at least kept the funds and still has access to them.

The agreement was made in the thread. There should be no private agreement between gkv9 and zazarb contradicting the agreement posted in the thread. He agreed to keep the outstanding amount in the monitoring address.

Do you consider it OK to give loans out of escrowed funds?

[suchmoon]

Do you consider it OK to give loans out of escrowed funds?

Probably not. He should have kept it in a separate address if he needed to move it. I just don't think zazarb is in breach of contract with you since you don't have a contract with him. If gkv9 made a contract that's unfavorable to you (e.g. by not specifying terms of repayment) that's hardly zazarb's fault.

[Csmiami]

But there is no hard evidence suggesting zarzarb used those funds on his lending service. He could have moved them because he changed his wallet, to update the wallet onto a Segwit one.... or he could have moved to another address which has many movements and the funds remain unnoticed, but are still there. He can't really know what happened, and as long as the funds are still somewhere, I see no issue with them being moved a couple of years later.

If he did use said funds to finance his lending service? Well, that'd be really unethical; but there's nothing actually suggesting that (or I'm not seeing it).

[Watoshi-Dimobuto]

Do you consider it OK to give loans out of escrowed funds?

Probably not. He should have kept it in a separate address if he needed to move it. I just don't think zazarb is in breach of contract with you since you don't have a contract with him. If gkv9 made a contract that's unfavorable to you (e.g. by not specifying terms of repayment) that's hardly zazarb's fault.

Hypothetically speaking if Watoshi-Dimobuto a reputed escrow agent uses escrow funds of 10BTC to lend out without permission, as long as the person who entered into contract with him is not aware of it and the agent pays up in the end, we can turn a blind eye and his reputation is unaffected. Is that it?

But there is no hard evidence suggesting zarzarb used those funds on his lending service. He could have moved them because he changed his wallet, to update the wallet onto a Segwit one.... or he could have moved to another address which has many movements and the funds remain unnoticed, but are still there. He can't really know what happened, and as long as the funds are still somewhere, I see no issue with them being moved a couple of years later.

If he did use said funds to finance his lending service? Well, that'd be really unethical; but there's nothing actually suggesting that (or I'm not seeing it).

This is the escrow address.
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV

This is without a doubt the worst service I ever received from an escrow.

[Csmiami]

This is the escrow address.
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/13onqzPnGzazarbReooW4sBkqEgKPoMwZV

This is without a doubt the worst service I ever received from an escrow.

I know that's the address; but the only thing we can see there is that it was emptied in 2017. I think I recall zarzarb saying he used that address for different escrow deals/trades, so that could explain the volume of transactions.

Why did he move the funds? Only he can answer that, but it could be something as simple as a change from a desktop wallet to a hardware wallet, a firmware update.... I'm not saying he didn't use the funds for his own benefit, I'm just pointing out that there is nothing suggesting that, at least based on my criteria