The Big Short movie, BTC edition?

[bbc.reporter]

@SquallLeonhart. There can be an argument that a bet against Tether can also be a bet against the price of bitcoin.

Also, this news. Are we under regulation season? Who will be next?



John McAfee has been arrested and is in Spain awaiting extradition to the United States.

Today, the Department of Justice unsealed a June 15 indictment for tax evasion, which alleges that the cybersecurity software developer and ICO hype man hid cryptocurrency and other assets in bank accounts in others' names. If convicted, he faces up to 30 years in prison.

Shortly before the announcement, the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) filed a civil complaint in US District Court against  John McAfee, alleging he secretly made over $23 million from promoting seven initial coin offerings.

Source https://decrypt.co/43969/sec-sues-john-mcafee-for-shilling-crypto-icos

[lixer]

Whenever USDT prints out more money whenever they feel like it, they cause the bitcoin price to both go up but also long term go down. The reason it goes up is the simple fact that they do not always end up giving it all for money, so they end up buying bitcoins with it, a lot more USDT equals a lot more money in the market and that makes it go up.

However USDT is not continuing the way they printed so it makes sense that volatility stopped. Bitmex deal probably won't be a big issue since now there are other places you can do this, plus people can still withdraw from bitmex, hence I believe they will just find another bitmex for themselves and that will be the end of the story for them. Only people who need to worry about this is the bitmex people who got jailed.

[exstasie]

Are we under regulation season? Who will be next?

John McAfee has been arrested and is in Spain awaiting extradition to the United States.

Today, the Department of Justice unsealed a June 15 indictment for tax evasion, which alleges that the cybersecurity software developer and ICO hype man hid cryptocurrency and other assets in bank accounts in others' names. If convicted, he faces up to 30 years in prison.

Shortly before the announcement, the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) filed a civil complaint in US District Court against  John McAfee, alleging he secretly made over $23 million from promoting seven initial coin offerings.

Source https://decrypt.co/43969/sec-sues-john-mcafee-for-shilling-crypto-icos

The US government is going after people left and right. Indeed, who's next?!

What the hell was he doing in Spain? You'd think he would know better than to hang out in extradition-friendly countries. Damn, I honestly thought that guy would be trolling us for years to come.

Going after ICO promoters now.......you can almost hear Crypto Twitter collectively gulping in fear.

[STT]

The USA has unique tax laws in that even while in another country for years you owe the US government taxes on your income.  Most famous case I think of is the UK premier who born in USA was asked by IRS to pay taxes on his London property despite being British and earning everything in uk he was dual citizen so liable apparently.  I forget the reasoning for it exactly but there isnt any other country that monitors its citizens like that, only on resident domestically earnt income tax.    There doesnt seem to be much chance he can avoid the fine exactly and lots of money to lawyers to mitigate the long jail term.   Same as Japan the citizens are the ultimate unlimited resource to bail out what would otherwise be an easily insolvent fiscal debt schedule.   I wonder how much of his personality is real or fake because if he tries to really act in resistance or defiance of the law they'll keep him inside till the day he expires basically.
   Another case I followed about a man who contested not state taxes but federal jurisdiction over his income and wrote a book, was a real true believer in this idea unfortunately died in prison after being left to go blind and without proper treatment for cancer even in his last moments he was handcuffed to a hospital bed; I guess no taxes is a capital crime.  
  Such cases do relate to BTC in that cash flows across borders is quite a large part of its competitive advantage and domestic tax law interference in what should be free flow currency is very negative for value imo with red tape overheads, etc.    The flip side to QE free money, endless fiscal stimulus is a very negative tax on everything a person can do, McAfee is ridiculous but there's a wider question that applies to all imo.

[bbc.reporter]

Are we under regulation season? Who will be next?

John McAfee has been arrested and is in Spain awaiting extradition to the United States.

Today, the Department of Justice unsealed a June 15 indictment for tax evasion, which alleges that the cybersecurity software developer and ICO hype man hid cryptocurrency and other assets in bank accounts in others' names. If convicted, he faces up to 30 years in prison.

Shortly before the announcement, the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) filed a civil complaint in US District Court against  John McAfee, alleging he secretly made over $23 million from promoting seven initial coin offerings.

Source https://decrypt.co/43969/sec-sues-john-mcafee-for-shilling-crypto-icos

The US government is going after people left and right. Indeed, who's next?!

What the hell was he doing in Spain? You'd think he would know better than to hang out in extradition-friendly countries. Damn, I honestly thought that guy would be trolling us for years to come.

Going after ICO promoters now.......you can almost hear Crypto Twitter collectively gulping in fear.

We would never know who until the American government begins to act. However, we might know someone who founded a company that has been selling illegal securities tokens for 7 years speculate that he might be next hehehe.


According to Chris Larsen, co-founder and executive chairman of Ripple Labs, the company is likely to move its headquarters overseas because due to the regulatory stance of the federal government towards the crypto industry.

Source https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/80039/chris-larsen-ripple-may-leave-us

[exstasie]

The US government is going after people left and right. Indeed, who's next?!

What the hell was he doing in Spain? You'd think he would know better than to hang out in extradition-friendly countries. Damn, I honestly thought that guy would be trolling us for years to come.

Going after ICO promoters now.......you can almost hear Crypto Twitter collectively gulping in fear.

We would never know who until the American government begins to act. However, we might know someone who founded a company that has been selling illegal securities tokens for 7 years speculate that he might be next hehehe.

According to Chris Larsen, co-founder and executive chairman of Ripple Labs, the company is likely to move its headquarters overseas because due to the regulatory stance of the federal government towards the crypto industry.

Source https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/80039/chris-larsen-ripple-may-leave-us

I'm surprised they stuck around this long after Fincen came after them in 2015 for illegal money transmitting, BSA violations, etc.

If they really have been illegally issuing securities all this time (the jury is still out on that and the SEC has not commented) then moving overseas now won't save them.

I'm more worried about exchanges. I don't think Bitmex is the only exchange being targeted right now. There could be other sealed indictments that haven't come down yet. I worry about platforms like Bitfinex and Binance.

[atjiat]

The US government is going after people left and right. Indeed, who's next?!

What the hell was he doing in Spain? You'd think he would know better than to hang out in extradition-friendly countries. Damn, I honestly thought that guy would be trolling us for years to come.

Going after ICO promoters now.......you can almost hear Crypto Twitter collectively gulping in fear.

We would never know who until the American government begins to act. However, we might know someone who founded a company that has been selling illegal securities tokens for 7 years speculate that he might be next hehehe.

According to Chris Larsen, co-founder and executive chairman of Ripple Labs, the company is likely to move its headquarters overseas because due to the regulatory stance of the federal government towards the crypto industry.

Source https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/80039/chris-larsen-ripple-may-leave-us

I'm surprised they stuck around this long after Fincen came after them in 2015 for illegal money transmitting, BSA violations, etc.

If they really have been illegally issuing securities all this time (the jury is still out on that and the SEC has not commented) then moving overseas now won't save them.

I'm more worried about exchanges. I don't think Bitmex is the only exchange being targeted right now. There could be other sealed indictments that haven't come down yet. I worry about platforms like Bitfinex and Binance.

I believe that the upcoming US presidential elections will make their own adjustments in the cryptocurrency market. In my opinion, this will happen after Biden's victory. If the official policy on cryptocurrencies is positive, then we should not be afraid of the decisions of the CES in the future.

[Febo]

According to Chris Larsen, co-founder and executive chairman of Ripple Labs, the company is likely to move its headquarters overseas because due to the regulatory stance of the federal government towards the crypto industry.

No one can touch ripple labs. They are bankers. They will simply pay huge fines and just continue doing whatever they are doing.


For McAfee. He total understood crypto long time ago. But still acted totally dumb. I will never understand him.

[bbc.reporter]

The US government is going after people left and right. Indeed, who's next?!

What the hell was he doing in Spain? You'd think he would know better than to hang out in extradition-friendly countries. Damn, I honestly thought that guy would be trolling us for years to come.

Going after ICO promoters now.......you can almost hear Crypto Twitter collectively gulping in fear.

We would never know who until the American government begins to act. However, we might know someone who founded a company that has been selling illegal securities tokens for 7 years speculate that he might be next hehehe.

According to Chris Larsen, co-founder and executive chairman of Ripple Labs, the company is likely to move its headquarters overseas because due to the regulatory stance of the federal government towards the crypto industry.

Source https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linked/80039/chris-larsen-ripple-may-leave-us

I'm surprised they stuck around this long after Fincen came after them in 2015 for illegal money transmitting, BSA violations, etc.

If they really have been illegally issuing securities all this time (the jury is still out on that and the SEC has not commented) then moving overseas now won't save them.

I'm more worried about exchanges. I don't think Bitmex is the only exchange being targeted right now. There could be other sealed indictments that haven't come down yet. I worry about platforms like Bitfinex and Binance.

Do not worry, Bitfinex and iFinex is being targeted already because of issuing USDT hehehe. They do not appear afraid, however. They have issued the last 70% of total USDT only in the last 2 years.

@Febo. I argued about that before. However, why is Chris Larsen saying that Ripple might move overseas? Can their political connections not protect them anymore?

[exstasie]

Do not worry, Bitfinex and iFinex is being targeted already because of issuing USDT hehehe. They do not appear afraid, however. They have issued the last 70% of total USDT only in the last 2 years.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder if they're invincible. All those years operating illegally in the US, multiple government investigations, fines, etc. and still the only way the US government has ever gotten to Bitfinex's money was by happenstance, because Crypto Capital was holding their money when they went down.

They play one hell of game of cat and mouse!

However, why is Chris Larsen saying that Ripple might move overseas? Can their political connections not protect them anymore?

Maybe because Fincen labelled them an MSB and they want to be able to engage in XRP sales without AML/KYC. Or because they're worried the SEC is going to bring the hammer down on them.

[bbc.reporter]

The 3 are not quite the units that are supporting the price. Bitmex is only a derivatives exchange, UK government does not have influence over the cryptospace and John McAfee is a joker.

This type of overconfidence should not be applauded. He might have forgotten that the largest exchanges' market makers that use USDT are the real agents that support the cryptospace market.



#bitcoin holding strong after:
- BitMEX crackdown by US govt
- Crypto derivatives banned by UK govt
- McAfee arrest by US govt

Source https://twitter.com/100trillionUSD/status/1313774401217855488

[exstasie]

The 3 are not quite the units that are supporting the price. Bitmex is only a derivatives exchange, UK government does not have influence over the cryptospace and John McAfee is a joker.

Bitmex was consequential for price discovery. They have been for years. Derivatives platform or not, lots of large traders hedge their spot positions there. They might continue to be important yet if they can come to an agreement with the US government that settles the charges.

This type of overconfidence should not be applauded. He might have forgotten that the largest exchanges' market makers that use USDT are the real agents that support the cryptospace market.

Here's the interesting thing about that: what happens if the US government comes after Tether, freezes some bank accounts, etc? BTCUSDT and ALT/USDT pairs might go to the moon as the whole market panics away from Tether. When Bitfinex and Tether lost the ability to service fiat withdrawals in March or April 2017, that's exactly what happened.

And you know what happened after that.

[bbc.reporter]

@exstasie. The American government pulling the rug on Tether is different from Tether only losing its banking partner. Also, your argument implies that it was a pump and dump.

Taking down Tether and iFinex will remove billions of USDT from the market and the reduced liquidity might not handle the panic.

[beerlover]

Why shouldn't bitcoin be strong after those news? I realize that you may think some of them are related to bitcoin itself so the price should be affected but I do not see it that way at all. Think about it there are three things that are "major" in the crypto news cycles and none of them directly impacts the price right away, maybe the idea got hurt (which it didn't) but the price itself had nothing at all.

Think about it this way, bitmex ceo got jailed, and that had nothing to do with people buying or selling bitcoin at all, it is owner of a company in crypto and that's it, derivatives banned (which is great) which still doesn't stop people from buying or selling, or Johm Mcafee got jailed, which is a great news and still no buying and selling affected, NONE of these affects the price directly.

[exstasie]

@exstasie. The American government pulling the rug on Tether is different from Tether only losing its banking partner.

Sure but the result is the same: people panic buying out of USDT and if possible Bitfinex USD, and into crypto, due to fear of underlying insolvency or imminent collapse.

Also, your argument implies that it was a pump and dump.

How so? If people dump USDT because they are scared it might become worthless, how does that make it a pump and dump?

Taking down Tether and iFinex will remove billions of USDT from the market and the reduced liquidity might not handle the panic.

It's impossible to know what would happen. It partly depends how it goes down. If it's like with Bitmex (domains and servers not seized) then maybe Bitfinex and Tether's remaining assets could be unwound relatively smoothly.

What I do know is that USDT and Bitfinex markets are tightly pegged to other spot exchanges through arbitrage. Traditionally when this peg is broken due to banking or liquidity problems or FUD, Tether and Bitfinex work quickly to sort out liquidity for their very largest corporate clients, who can then arbitrage the markets back into line. Like I said, a lot may depend on whether we're talking about a full blown seizure like BTC-e in 2017, just the unsealing of indictments like with Bitmex this year, or somewhere in between.

Exchange hacks and failures also haven't been affecting the market all that much in recent years. I wouldn't necessarily expect a crash like after the Mt. Gox collapse. But Bitfinex and Tether are quite large so like I said, it's hard to know what would happen exactly.

All I know is you better have your popcorn ready.

[bbc.reporter]

@exstasie. I disagree. People might also panic sell bitcoin without the liquidity provided by USDT.

You said that Tether lost its banking partner, however what happened? There was a pump on April 2017 then dumped on December 2017.

Agreed, have that popcorn ready. However, USDC in circulation has increased from $500 million on March to $3 billion st present. It might be adopted by more exchanges to save themselves and us hehehe.

[exstasie]

@exstasie. I disagree. People might also panic sell bitcoin without the liquidity provided by USDT.

Maybe so. Just pointing out that it's not necessarily so simple as "US government takes down Tether, Bitcoin crashes."

A lot depends on the underlying market context too, i.e. whether it's a bull or bear market. Bad news never stops a bull market. When the US government took down BTC-e in 2017 (and they were a very important exchange at the time) there was a temporary dip but BTC went parabolic shortly after.

[bbc.reporter]

@exstasie. I cannot agree. Tether is speculated to be carrying the whole cryptospace with the biggest volume and liquidity. It will not be whether it is a bull market or a bear market. If the American government is successful in the Tether rug pull, we should be hoping that the speculations are not true because it will certainly be the cryptospace's version of the Big Short.

BTCe is not a good comparison. It only had a small percentage of the total volume in the cryptospace on 2017. Mtgox might be a better comparison.

[SquallLeonhart]

There can be an argument that a bet against Tether can also be a bet against the price of bitcoin.

Bet against tether is not a bet against bitcoin at all. Tether is owned by a company, well actually tether is the company, usdt is the product they are putting out. Which is why I keep saying that tether and ripple type of company owned stuff should be excluded from the cmc and all the crypto discussions. They are just a company and they have a product, they are not decentralized crypto currency.

I feel like tether could crash and be worth nothing and bitcoin market will be affected by it but can move on without any problem. Didn't we had bitcoin before usdt was a thing? We definitely had it and we will still have it if USDT gets cancelled as well by SEC. I am also glad that John finally got what he deserved, I have nothing to say about that, dude deserved it.

[exstasie]

@exstasie. I cannot agree. Tether is speculated to be carrying the whole cryptospace with the biggest volume and liquidity. It will not be whether it is a bull market or a bear market. If the American government is successful in the Tether rug pull, we should be hoping that the speculations are not true because it will certainly be the cryptospace's version of the Big Short.

We'll see.

BTCe is not a good comparison. It only had a small percentage of the total volume in the cryptospace on 2017. Mtgox might be a better comparison.

I disagree. The exchange space was much more concentrated in early-mid 2017 than now. And when Mt. Gox went down in early 2014, there were only a handful of relevant exchanges. It's worth noting that Bitcoin was in a bull market in 2017. It was in a bear market in 2014.

This is an archive of CMC exchange rankings the day before BTC-e went down: https://web.archive.org/web/20170724163440/https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/volume/24-hour/

BTC-e and xBTCe (BTC-e's margin platform at the time, which used their liquidity on the back end) took the #7 and #15 spots by volume. Notably, several of the exchanges ahead of them are known for faking volume.

BTC-e was very important at the time.