Buy crypto using Ledger Live

[sunsilk]

There's a recent update for Ledger live and that's what the title says, you can now purchase crypto using their app as they've integrated with Coinify. The available cryptos are not that much yet this may be ease for other users.

This feature, operated by Coinify, is available directly in the Ledger Live application. Pick your favorite crypto among Bitcoin, Ethereum, Bitcoin Cash, or Dash and buy it using your Credit Card or a Bank Transfer. Stellar and USDT will soon be available to buy directly through Ledger Live.

Source: https://www.ledger.com/buy-crypto-in-ledger-live

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[bob123]

Ledger Live is an interface for a hardware wallet. Honestly, they shouldn't integrate such services.

If people want to use such a service, they are free to visit the website directly and buy crypto that way.
If there is some kind of error happening on coinify's site, ledger will be blamed for that. Especially by new comers.

I am completely against integrating this service into a wallet. Since i do not user ledger live at all, i actually don't care.
However, i am interested to see how many people will complain in the hardware wallets sub about bad rates etc. blaming ledger.

[dkbit98]

What is also important is that with using their partner Coinify you will have to submit your KYC.
That means that your ledger will now have 'nice' connection with your photo and real documents. 
Something hardware wallet should never have...

[Lucius]

I don't see that this kind of service is generally bad, especially since it integrates the use of hardware wallets with crypto exchange. It will certainly make it easier for some users to buy coins, and at the same time allow them to stay in a safe environment, without the possibility of falling victim to phishing or clipboard malware. This will only be possible if they use the hardware wallet in the correct way, by checking each address/transaction on the device screen.

That means that your ledger will now have 'nice' connection with your photo and real documents. 

When you buy a hardware wallet you leave all your data to the company you are buying from, and at least as far as Ledger is concerned, each packet has their address prominently displayed, so that anyone who comes in contact with it can very easily connect the dots. Which means that my postman can easily understand that, and after a couple of beers in the pub, tell others that I'm doing something with crypto/Bitcoin.

[dkbit98]

When you buy a hardware wallet you leave all your data to the company you are buying from, and at least as far as Ledger is concerned, each packet has their address prominently displayed, so that anyone who comes in contact with it can very easily connect the dots. Which means that my postman can easily understand that, and after a couple of beers in the pub, tell others that I'm doing something with crypto/Bitcoin.

Here we are talking about third party aka Coinify.

And there are ways you can buy your hardware wallet without anyone knows you or your details,
for example local shops or dedicated mailboxes.
Nobody knows my details for my hardware wallet.

Retailers:
https://shop.ledger.com/pages/retailers
https://www.links.hr/hr/bitcoin-wallet-ledger-nano-s-za-kriptovalute-410600024

[Lucius]

And there are ways you can buy your hardware wallet without anyone knows you or your details,
for example local shops or dedicated mailboxes.

In the crypto community, however, the prevailing opinion is that the only correct way to buy hardware wallets is to buy directly from the manufacturer. We can discuss whether this is better or worse than buying from authorized resellers, but some people have no choice but to order directly from the manufacturer. Regarding dedicated mailboxes, I know such things exist but I believe it is not a free service and something that is known to everyone.

I’m familiar with Links selling Ledger HW, as well that Trezor can be purchased in Bitcoin Store physical offices in ZG&ST.

[dkbit98]

In the crypto community, however, the prevailing opinion is that the only correct way to buy hardware wallets is to buy directly from the manufacturer. We can discuss whether this is better or worse than buying from authorized resellers, but some people have no choice but to order directly from the manufacturer. Regarding dedicated mailboxes, I know such things exist but I believe it is not a free service and something that is known to everyone.

I’m familiar with Links selling Ledger HW, as well that Trezor can be purchased in Bitcoin Store physical offices in ZG&ST.

Prevailing what?
This is official Ledger retailers listed on their website.
https://shop.ledger.com/pages/retailers
or become retailer and Ledger Partner yourself:
https://ledger.typeform.com/to/nIcfT9
If they can manipulate and change ledger wallet, so can your mailman and customs.

If you are so concerned about that maybe go directly in their factory.

Dedicated mailboxes are not free, but people who order things online and care about privacy all know about them.
It is not top secret in the western world...

[joniboini]

Going a bit off topic here guys.

Anyway, I wonder why more and more services are trying to do this kind of thing. It's as if they don't support buying crypto with fiat then they're out of date. Not sure why I would use a hardware wallet software to buy crypto, where there are dozens of options out there. Ledger doesn't have to follow the trend honestly.

[Lucius]

Prevailing what?
This is official Ledger retailers listed on their website.
https://shop.ledger.com/pages/retailers
or become retailer and Ledger Partner yourself:
https://ledger.typeform.com/to/nIcfT9
If they can manipulate and change ledger wallet, so can your mailman and customs.

If you are so concerned about that maybe go directly in their factory.

Dedicated mailboxes are not free, but people who order things online and care about privacy all know about them.
It is not top secret in the western world...

There's no reason to think I'm stupid so I can't figure some things out. I've been on this forum a lot longer than you, so I’m just stating some general opinions that have prevailed for years when it comes to hardware wallets. You put same link again, do you think I am not capable of finding Ledger retailers page or that I did not see same link in your previous post?

[dkbit98]

There's no reason to think I'm stupid so I can't figure some things out. I've been on this forum a lot longer than you, so I’m just stating some general opinions that have prevailed for years when it comes to hardware wallets. You put same link again, do you think I am not capable of finding Ledger retailers page or that I did not see same link in your previous post?

I never said you are stupid, and being longer on this forum than me means what exactly? You are smarter than me and all who joined after you?
I don't know what you are capable off honestly, but no need to go more offtopic with this. 

I don't like option to buy anything from my hardware wallet, and I don't like Ledger Live app partnership with Coinify.
My prevailing opinion.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

What is also important is that with using their partner Coinify you will have to submit your KYC.
That means that your ledger will now have 'nice' connection with your photo and real documents. 

Good point if true--but I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing since the service (and KYC document submission) is optional.  It isn't as though Ledger is forcing people to buy crypto through their partner.  I see this more as Ledger trying to stay competitive with other HWs that offer similar services.

I haven't tried buying bitcoin through my Ledger, but I could almost guarantee that I'd be ineligible to do so because of where I live anyway.  I'd be interested to hear from people who've done it, though.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Dedicated mailboxes are not free, but people who order things online and care about privacy all know about them.

Exactly. I bought all my various hardware wallets directly from the manufacturer. All were paid with mixed/anonymized bitcoin. I gave none of them my real name, and all of the devices were delivered to mailbox not linked to my real address. It's entirely possible to keep your details out of the hands of third parties if you want to.

Anyway, I wonder why more and more services are trying to do this kind of thing.

Money. Ledger will take a commission fee from every trade made through Ledger Live.

I find myself disappointed yet again on the slow removal of privacy from every aspect of crypto. Needless to say, I won't be using this (not that I even use Ledger Live anymore). And despite how much I like Ledger hardware products, I am disappointed yet again in their software division choosing to prioritize meaningless trash like this when Ledger Live still doesn't even allow basic address or UTXO control.

[sunsilk]

Anyway, I wonder why more and more services are trying to do this kind of thing.

Money. Ledger will take a commission fee from every trade made through Ledger Live.

True.

It's the commission that they can take from the trades through this integration. This started with the multi coin wallets then slowly moved and adopted by web wallets and here we go, Ledger itself integrated.

I haven't tried buying bitcoin through my Ledger, but I could almost guarantee that I'd be ineligible to do so because of where I live anyway.  I'd be interested to hear from people who've done it, though.

I've seen this discussion on ledger's sub-reddit and majority says the cut is too high.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/h837g0/question_regards_buying_through_coinify/

I was a bit excited when I've seen this update but it seems that this isn't favorable for everyone.

[20kevin20]

I find myself disappointed yet again on the slow removal of privacy from every aspect of crypto. Needless to say, I won't be using this (not that I even use Ledger Live anymore). And despite how much I like Ledger hardware products, I am disappointed yet again in their software division choosing to prioritize meaningless trash like this when Ledger Live still doesn't even allow basic address or UTXO control.

I feel the same. The need of having more control over your coins gets even worse when you own alts and know there aren't Ledger-capable Electrum versions for that alt you can use instead of Live. At least with BTC you still have options.

They have way more important things to add to Ledger Live to improve our options for privacy & control than adding a .. centralized exchange as a feature. Might've been an addition in order to compete with Trezor, but if so then imo it's a bad move.

If it's a move for money, I think it's even worse considering that they have a quite precious list of names, physical addresses (and even BTC addresses of those who paid through crypto) they could very well sell to authorities or other third parties for money. This one and my concern from a while ago when I said I am afraid the closed-source parts of Ledger might contain something creepy and/or backdoors for authorities pop to the surface in my mind every once in a while.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I've seen this discussion on ledger's sub-reddit and majority says the cut is too high.

10% fee!? Ooft. That's ridiculous, even by these instant-exchange standards.

I feel the same. The need of having more control over your coins gets even worse when you own alts and know there aren't Ledger-capable Electrum versions for that alt you can use instead of Live. At least with BTC you still have options.

I don't care much for alts, and the only one I am regularly using at the moment (Monero) thankfully also has its own fully capable wallet which is compatible with Ledger devices. If you do like to own small and unknown altcoins, then I guess not having their own wallet is one of the prices you have to pay.

I think it's even worse considering that they have a quite precious list of names, physical addresses (and even BTC addresses of those who paid through crypto) they could very well sell to authorities or other third parties for money.

Many people will have already given their real names and addresses to Ledger when they purchased their wallet, but I guess Ledger have no way of linking those details to a specific Ledger Live account (at least, I really hope there isn't an individual tracking number or data linked to each device!) However, providing KYC linked to all your hardware wallets is truly awful for privacy.

[bob123]

[...] (at least, I really hope there isn't an individual tracking number or data linked to each device!) [...]

According to ledger, that is not the case:

[...] There is actually no way to identify a given Nano S, there is no serial number, 2 nano S with the same seed are identical from technical perspective.

Not that one wouldn't expect such an answer from them when asked tho.

[LoyceMobile]

Ledger Live is an interface for a hardware wallet. Honestly, they shouldn't integrate such services.

What's Next? Gambling directly from your hardware wallet?

[Pmalek]

Needless to say, I won't be using this (not that I even use Ledger Live anymore). And despite how much I like Ledger hardware products, I am disappointed yet again in their software division choosing to prioritize meaningless trash like this when Ledger Live still doesn't even allow basic address or UTXO control.

Ledger's priority are probably not advanced users like yourself, but those who are new and inexperienced. Being an advanced user, you can use Electrum and take advantage of their advanced features, use a DEX for your crypto purchase, etc. They are trying to provide an all-around service package.

I have no interest in buying crypto through LL, but I appreciate them offering it as an option to those who do.
I would personally like them to find out why their App mysteriously stops working for certain users and fails to start. I think that is even more important than coin control.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Not that one wouldn't expect such an answer from them when asked tho.

Yeah, and given the closed source nature of the device, we have no way of knowing for sure. Good thing I ordered mine without giving any of my real details.

Ledger's priority are probably not advanced users like yourself, but those who are new and inexperienced.

Doesn't that make it worse, though? They are encouraging new users who don't know any better to submit KYC, tie all their holdings to their real name and address, compromise their own privacy and security, pay exorbitant fees, etc. As much as I advocate for DEXs as you mention, if you are willing to complete KYC then why not complete it at an exchange that charges a 0.5% fee instead of this 10% nonsense? I can pretty much guarantee at some point in the not too distant future there will be threads on here from newbies saying "I bought bitcoin via Ledger Live and now I've lost 10% of my funds! Have I been hacked?" or similar.

There are much better things the Ledger Live development team could be spending their time on.

[20kevin20]

I don't care much for alts, and the only one I am regularly using at the moment (Monero) thankfully also has its own fully capable wallet which is compatible with Ledger devices. If you do like to own small and unknown altcoins, then I guess not having their own wallet is one of the prices you have to pay.

Many, if not most out of the top 100 alts besides the very well known ones (Dash, Monero, LTC etc) do not have a free, fully open source wallet that allows you to use Ledger with and that leaves you with no option but to use Live. Wouldn't have been a problem if it wasn't about a closed/semi-closed source software that has some questionable updates.

but I guess Ledger have no way of linking those details to a specific Ledger Live account (at least, I really hope there isn't an individual tracking number or data linked to each device!)

I do not know for sure whether Live is fully open source or only partially as there is a GitHub repo for it (I have looked everywhere for "Ledger Live" and "open-source" together but no signs so I'll assume it's only partially open), but if it's only partially I have some concerns about it. Lots of things could happen behind the scenes such as transferring to certain parties information about the coins/balances you own using the IP you're using Live with or possibly even linking your Ledger to it because who the hell knows what's inside that closed code. This is why the new feature of having a centralized exchange in Live gives my concern an even thicker contour.


Waves Exchange is non-custodial with optional KYC (for fiat trades) and centralized trade matching. You can use that one with Ledger directly if you download the app and would've probably been a better choice to integrate than Coinify. I believe Atomic DEX from Komodo also has a HW integration planned in their roadmap (I currently have JS disabled so can't check right now) and I honestly love their app.